Child inclusive models of practice. Parental conflict.

The importance of children being heard. Historically we shut children out of the process and were talking behind closed doors. It is important (age appropriately) for children to have a voice. Shelby does not in general think children should have a choice (again being mindful of age).

 Often children are caught in an adult dynamic and their voice is influenced by that without understanding the consequences.

How is the children’s feedback delivered to parents without creating issues or risks for them? We all need to upskill in how to allow children to have a voice safely. “Through the child’s lense” is something we all need to be able to work on.

Considered in hearing from children. We need to be aware of what a privilege it is for families allow us to assist them.

Research in Norway re what family is.

Cassandra Soliman from OurFamilyWizard discusses why they have consistently sponsored Pacifica Congress for years.

OurFamilyWizard centralises all information. Supporting parents to have a more respectful dialogue. They have never had a data breach. Cassandra notes that parent are exchanging “sensitive information” and always says “you’re safe with us.” Double encryption and intrusion monitoring.

Caution around “free” apps… there is “No such thing as a free app.” There is always a cost. Note that some apps sell your data.

Features on OurFamilyWizard include soon audio and video call. Practitioners get a copy of the transcript. Tone meter and how it works. Expenses, reimbursements managed in dashboard. Document private expenses.

Discussion of future upcoming features.

Parental alienation. Controversial issue in family law. Parental alienation can be used by perpetrators to further abuse survivors of family law. Richard Gardner invented term and it is “highly laden with gendered ideas and assumptions” “Has never been able to shed the baggage”.

Just because someone alleges alienation does not mean the Court will find this. We need to talk calmly about this issue.  In reality Judges find that there has been parental alienation fairly rarely. “When it finally plays out in the Courtroom the actual results are a bit different to the mystique that hangs around the terminology”

Exploring should we even still use the terminology “parental alienation”? Reject, refused, reluctance, preferred parent etc.

Discussion of UK and USA and the terminology and ideas re parental alienation. Change of residence especially in USA.

Term can take up a “lot of oxygen” in a case. Ie a mother who survived domestic violence, and thought the Court would look at the father’s behaviour, and instead when that term is raised the focus moves to her. Even today do we still have trouble believing women?

” Dr Tiffany De Sousa Machado (Dr. Tiff), is one of Australia's leading experts in wellbeing, postpartum health and corporate wellness. 

Healing intergenerational trauma. When parents are learning skills at the same time as teaching their children. Unique approach that integrates Eastern approaches. Mind, body and spiritual approaches. How to be empowered in your own healing. Emotional regulation.

“Combining the science and the spiritual." Working with both clients and family lawyers. Personal empowerment, choice and mindset. What are boundaries, how to communicate these and how to maintain a boundary.

Importance of in between chats at conferences. Child inclusive mediation. What it is, different approaches. Bringing the child’s experiences, views into mediation via a child consultant. Including the views of children. Clare: “Not everyone can jump into that space and sit with a 6 year old.” A child consultant must be qualified and an expert in this. It should not become an investigative interview. Children should not be put in inappropriate or high pressure situations. Allowing the child to have a voice but not the ultimate choice. Different methodologies for child inclusive mediation. Clare: “The third party is the voice and experience of the child. The child’s views and narratives are brought into the room through the child consultant.”

Jackie is the Executive Director at Family and Relationships Services Australia. Sponsors of Pacifica Congress and why sponsor. How to keep children front and centre in the family law process. The forgotten people. Jackie talks about the importance of child inclusive mediation where possible and her view it should be an “opt out” rather than “opt in” process. I.e assumption is child inclusive mediation. Jackie says “it is light a lightbulb moment for many parents”.  Working with children families and communities . Families change. Children change. Jackie suggest family lawyers consider getting to know their local centre. Each centre offers slightly different services. Sponsorship of Pacifica Congress. Note that of those separating 6% go to lawyers, 10% to Family and Relationships Services Australia. Supporting children after separation program. Family and Relationships Services Australia includes…. Relationships Australia, Uniting, Interrelate, Catholic Care, Anglicare and other stand alone type services.

APRA complaints. What makes a good Family Report? Potential idea of a statement of agreed facts to experts. Talking across disciplines at conferences. Resourcing. Caution when using AI in family law. His Honour’s views regarding the value of “Actual Intelligence”.

Launch event of the film with filmmaker Zoe Durand interviewed by Clare Rowe and with speeches by The Hon Peter Rose AM QC and Judge Dale Kemp on the evening.

And also featuring Stephen Foley (Legal Ready), Anthony Marchese (Marchese Property Valuations), Katrene Halteh (Urban Family Lawyers), Anthony Strik (barrister), Roey Balbus (OperationsX), Naomi Ives (OurFamilyWizard) hosted at Clarence.

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• Jack O'Donnell on his career and role as co founder and co CEO of JustFund.
• The goals of JustFund to level the playing field and assist parties that would otherwise struggle to pay legal fees.
• The outcome of a recent survey by JustFund.
• Around 40% of clients change legal representation i.e. clients "vote with their feet."
• As much as outcome, the way a client is treated along the way matters. "A soft touch" helps or rather soft skills ie listening and clients feeling heard. 
• What is next for JustFund? There may be further services offered such as psychologist, counsellors etc as well as legal funding. 

Reach Jack O'Donnell https://justfund.com.au/about-us/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• Context to Paul's career at Settify (CEO of Settify).
• The forms that Settify provide for clients to fill in and how the types of questions adapt depending on what clients fill in. These are "intelligent questions" adapted to the client. 
• Data on how clients using such forms and providing information makes them more likely to retain solicitors.
• The FLENA conference. 

Reach Paul Psaltis https://settify.com/our-team/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• Context to Laura's career and work.
• Anti publication laws and social media.
• Posting on social media. Common mistakes clients may make in disclosing on social media. 
• How lawyers use social media to look up the other party etc.
• Children's social media.  

Reach Laura Donnelly at https://www.holmesdonnelly.com.au/who-we-are/laura-donnelly/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• Leaps products the include AI
• Matter AI
• Law AI
• The prompts AI in Leap uses.
• Rapid uptake of AI by Leap users, around 25% are using Matter AI. 
• How the AI works with the file to locate documents and save hours of time. AI works to locate for example letters that relate to a certain issue and that is "sort of magic" in how much time is saved for lawyers. AI as being able to address the issues around how document dense family law is. 
• AI being used to help clients and help clients connect with the right lawyer for them. 

Reach Christian Beck at https://www.leaplegalsoftware.com/leadership/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• History of Lara's career.
• Coaching Advocates.
• Talk at the FLENA conference and emotional boundaries.
• Risk of being too connected to clients and overwhelmed by their situation VS not connecting enough and being cold, clinical. 
• Emotional empathy VS cognitive empathy.
• What is next for Coaching Advocates.

Reach Lara Wentworth at https://www.larawentworth.com.au/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• By 2027, 44% of our work in family law will have been altered by AI.
• History of Fiona Kirkman's work in family law technology.
• Soon clients will expect lawyers to have some understanding of how and when to use AI. 
• Matter AI and the legal prompts it uses and how the AI technology works.

Reach Fiona Kirkman at https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionakirkman/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• History of Divorce Done Differently - one of the first models for one place where lawyers and clients could access quality alternative dispute resolution services. 
• Shelby's views on burnout, work life balance.
• Collaborative approaches in family law.
• The future of ADR and interdisciplinary approaches. 

Reach Shelby Timmins at https://www.divorcedonedifferently.com.au/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

Reach Grant at https://www.grantherbert.com/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

Reach Angelo at https://myraaris.com.au/

Find out about FLENA at https://familylawedu.com.au/

Reach interviewer Zoe Durand at www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• Sponsoring coffee cart at Pacifica Congress.
• RAMP - Rafton's Arbitration and Mediation Practice
• Maurice Edwards, and his role at RAMP
• sponsorship and importance of interdisiplinary conferences with input from social scientists and psychologists and all those in the wider family law umbrella.
• History of Rafton's and Kate's legal career.
• offices - Hawkesbury, Penrith, Glenmore Park, Macarthur office, Sydney, Parramatta office. Balmain - care and protection.
• Discussion of arbitration. Why is there reluctance to recommend Arbitration? Some practitioners may have a lack of confidence re the process. Maurice Edwards
• Kate's interest in the coverage of blended families at the conference. Difference parenting styles, attachment issues. Time arrangements.  

https://rafton.com.au/

https://pacificacongress.org/

• Analysing hair, urine and blood tests.
• You can usually tell if someone is using medical marujiana or if there is recreational use based on the results.
• Timelines for how long tests can work - urine, blood vs hair follicle tests AND also depends on the type of the drug (this is a must listen to).
• "What implication does that have on the impairment of the individual?"
• If someone uses a drug once does it show up in the test? May be a small blip on the test. You cannot correlate back to a dose, but some studies can bracket results in low, medium, high.
• Leo says you can get an estimate of drug use in a test. CDT testing (alcohol use).
• Benefits and negatives of various tests - hair, blood, urine. Understanding what each test offers.
• What should lawyers include in the instructions to a toxicologist. "We can form a conclusion with caveats" from drug testing.
• What killed Alexander The Great? (Interesting discussion).
• Illustrating the importance of cross disciplinary discussions. 

www.pacificacongress.org 

https://www.toxinform.com

• Burn out. People are overloaded. Due to a lack of appreciation. Most people are not appreciative of what we do.
• Importance of support network. Brintyn shared his experience of what did and did not work. We do work in a risk zone. What can we do to manage risk.
• When cross examining an expert, key part is psychological tests are normed on a group of people. Westernised, English speaking people.
• Test may be of low validity if they have little connection with Anglo Australian background.
• Ask who was the test normed on? Looking at the presupposition of why the test was administered.
• Value of Pacifica Congress conference. "A bit like coming home." Where 100% of the content was relevant. 

The value of interdisciplinary conferences. We are constantly "Calling on all the other knowledge" . The value in family law of understanding other areas. Interdisciplinary referrals. Collaboratively working with each other.

Family Law Education Network is also finding that other professionals have jointed FLENA. Family law professionals. 

History of FLENA. Precedents services that FLENA offers. Also discussion of AI.

www.pacificacongress.org

https://familylawedu.com.au/

Inside Family Podcast: Pacifica Congress Cairns 2024 series  

The Honourable Steven Strickland KC

Exposure draft. Proposed amendments to Family Law Act. Proposed provisions that would allow the Court to consider family violence in property matters. The proposed amendments would be beyond the scope of Kennon.  Issues and benefits of such amendments. This may create the need for lengthy affidavits and delays.

The Hon Steven Strickland’s views about if such amendments should come into force. His view is it has to be brought in “it is necessary, but the issue is how it is done. There may only be one way to do it – just bite the bullet and you have to have to your fight in court.”

Flow on effects into settlement negotiations and mediation. (Mediating in the shadow of the law, but there is no jurisprudence on this probably for some time).

Cross fertilization at Pacifica Congress conferences “it’s different.”

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

https://stevenstricklandkc.au/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

Inside Family Podcast: Pacifica Congress Cairns 2024 series  

Simon Kennedy

Covid and changes to children’s lifestyles. Issue of if there is over diagnosis of ASD. In Dr Kennedy’s perspective there is a current over diagnosis of ASD and ADHD, in particular since covid.

Why aren’t my kids functioning properly? Issue of screen time with children and anxiety. Children being over exposed to things that are not positive for their mental health.

“Parents take their children to a psychologist or a neurologist and ask ‘what’s gone wrong’ and they will say ‘you clearly have ASD or ADHD.’” 10 years ago we did not have children on screens to this extent.

Not enough physical activity. Issue of assessors not looking at context around things. Too much time on screens replacing normal activities. Don’t go searching for unusual diagnosis if there has been a problem since the child was very young. We need to get back to “what makes kid tick.” Parents need to be in charge.

Issue with the over use of screens. Also issue around the content of what children are watching. Problems with children learning about sexuality via pornography as opposed to organically, gradually and within a relational way. Strangulation in porn.

“It’s entirely reasonable for parents to coordinate their children’s lives… rather than put them in front of a screen and hope for the best.”

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

https://www.psychologycamberwell.com/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

Inside Family Podcast: Pacifica Congress Cairns 2024 series  

Leigh McBean

Sponsorship of conference. How the funding process works. Inability to pay legal fees creating pressure for clients and lawyers and also affecting the dynamic between lawyers and clients. Demographics of who uses JustFund. Interim applications re release of funds VS legal lending. Nitty gritty of legal lending, for example approval, updates and interest etc. Issues re other forms of lending i.e. redraw on home loan, credit cards.

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

https://justfund.com.au/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

Inside Family Podcast: Pacifica Congress Cairns 2024 series  

Clare Rowe

The issues with accessibility of psychological terms in the mainstream and in particular social media. I.e Tik tok or Instagram diagnosis or narcissism, or BPD. Difficulty of seeing the other party through the lense of personality disorders and the sense that it then means the matter cannot resolve or progress.

Information on the Family Report Writers Network.

https://www.roweandassociates.com.au

https://www.familyreportwriters.com.au/

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

Inside Family Podcast: Pacifica Congress Cairns 2024 series  

Stephen Foley, Legal Ready

E-brief ready – electronic briefs. Covid and how this affected the uptake of technology. Uptake of AI in products. AI plus lawyer as a good combination at the moment. Use AI wisely. “Don’t put your head in the sand” but “start touching the keys.” Start becoming familiar with AI in law. Chat GPT. Value of face to face conferences. Trust that is built in person. Where are we heading in the future with AI and technology in law?

Reid Hoffman and his twin (having an AI conversation with his twin). “Just keep asking the questions. What does this mean for us and where do we want to go?” Zoe asks “it is confronting because it makes us ask where is the core of the human? Where does consciousness exist?” Discussion of Stephen Hawking's predictions re dangers of AI.

Chat GPT. The movie “Her” from years ago has arrived. Is AI sentient? The AI companion. I, robot film. Should there be better governance of AI and general intelligence.

As a society we should be talking about what should regulation and laws around AI be.

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

Connect with Stephen at https://www.legalready.ai/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

Why sponsor Pacifica Congress? Nicholes Family Lawyers has been sponsoring for years. Importance of interdisciplinary conferences and also the formal and informal aspects of such conferences. Approach of the firm to look at other ways to resolve a dispute. Amazing opportunity to meet with the professionals who work at the coalface in family law. Understanding how psychologists approach reports. How this connects into what lawyers do ie subpoenas, how affidavits are drafted.

Upcoming events for Nicholes Family Lawyers. World Congress. Podcast series launched by Nadine Udorovic “Family Law: our reality”. Upcoming celebrities include “Jen and Ben.”

Comments on blended families and other family structures by Justice Altobelli.

Forced to go back to the original questions around what we do. “It opens your mind and it broadens your thinking.” (Nadine).

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

Connect with Nadine at https://nicholeslaw.com.au/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

“People who struggle to adapt to life”. The University of Wollongong AIR program. (Affect, Identity and Relationship). Struggle with identities. People owning and working to address personality disorder. Stigma around personality disorders.

Value of DBT Therapy. Instagram or social media “diagnosis”. Can a person “recover” from a personality disorder?  Difficulty with diagnosis when these issues are on a continuum. Challenges parents face with school. Personality disordered parents at school.

Practical tips for lawyers on how to work with clients who have a personality disorder.

Reach Dr Krabman at https://drpeterkrabman.com/

To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

Justice Tom Altobelli AM

How families have changed and may change in the future. Also the use of AI and emerging technology in family law in the future: benefits and potential problems. To join Pacifica Congress or attend their next event see https://pacificacongress.org/

@INSIDE FAMILY LAW SPOTIFY OR PODBEAN https://zoedurand.podbean.com/

www.mediationanswers.com.au

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/family-law-reform-priority-for-next-australian-government/news-story/93af28df3bbe0c6f67b1e69910c7a0a2

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/judicial-wishlist-to-clear-family-law-backlog/news-story/68f15f036d7d47fbb5b5a1f6629cd418

In this interview I speak with former Family Court Judge, The Honourable Peter Rose AM QC (now Mediator, Arbitrator and Adjunct Professor at Sydney University and also my mentor for several years) about the ‘the good, the bad and the ugly’ (my words) in relation to the recommendations for family law reform in the ALRC report. 

For more on the Inside Family Law book see www.mediationanswers.com.au

Listen in https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ujz8a-14d6128

Clare Rowe https://www.roweandassociates.com.au/ Clare has presented at Pacifica Congress events several times including at their Plus One event in Sydney 2023. Clare, through the Family Report Writer’s Network is sponsoring the Inside Family Law Podcast Champagne Celebration.

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• “10% of 5 to 7 year old boys are on the NDIS”
• No actual test as such for autism or ADHD. It is the professional opinion for such a diagnosis, but 2 different professionals could have different views.
• Funding is tied to diagnosis.
• What are the implications of a diagnosis of say autism?
• Pressure on psychologists to diagnose given otherwise parents lose their funding, which could negatively impact family.
• Autism 1, 2, 3 (only 2 and 3 receive funding). Clare has not yet seen a diagnosis of autism 1, because there is no funding for this. Dynamic between what we diagnose and funding.
• Dynamic where parents polarise. I.e one prefers nachos and video games and the other prefers vegan lifestyle. They become more extreme once separated. Then party A says the child isn’t eating healthy food in party B’s home and Party B says the child is not being fed properly on an overly restrictive diet. When together they balance each other. Once apart “they become more them”.
• This is understandable to an extent as when people separate they go out to find themselves.
• Clare’s involvement in matters where one party asserts a diagnosis and the other disputes it. Different outcomes in those matters. In one case mother had Munchhausen’s by proxy and was unwell and in others the child should have been diagnosed and the other parent disputing it was asked to be involved and learn about the child’s needs etc.
• Sometimes the reason a parent disputes a diagnosis is because they were not involved in that diagnosis in the first place and once they are involved they can engage with recommendations.
• Is there sometimes a tendency to pathologize human variance?

Fiona Kirkman from FamilyProperty (https://www.familyproperty.com.au/team). FamilyProperty were sponsors of the Pacifica Congress conference in Hobart 2023. They are also sponsoring the Inside Family Law Champagne Celebration.

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• Technology can be used to smooth over the pain points in our work.
• We will discuss “how can technology help with automating some of the repetitious manual work to make things more efficient.”
• Some parts of the process that technology can assist in include:
  • Intakes and initial client information i.e gathering of information
  • Balance sheet
  • Disclosure
• “Get out of your comfort zone and try it.” At first it takes time to learn how to use technology, but once you use it, it is difficult to go back to pen and paper.
• Important for retention, in particular of younger lawyers in firms to use technology to make work more efficient.
• AI can be useful in family law, however be aware of example when AI hallucinated cases. A
• Clients are aware of AI and use chat GP. Chat GP comes up in matters in family law matters.
• AI will not replace lawyers, but technology can be used to replace parts of our work that are repetitious.

Nicola Taylor https://www.otago.ac.nz/cic/staff/professor-nicola-taylor

Dr Marilyn Freeman https://www.westminster.ac.uk/about-us/our-people/directory/freeman-marilyn

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• “There are a whole lot of transitions and experiences that children and young people have.”
• Gender dysphoria, child soldiers, children sports people.
• Opening up the space for what is family law to include issues for young people around identity and its formation and its disruption.
• “Identity formation is critical to the way we think about children.
• “Identity formation is one of the key aspects of childhood development.” Nicola.
• Overall it was received positively at the conference (expanding the understanding of family law).
• Paradigm shift to look at what are children’s experiences “hidden in plain sight”.
• An attendee said “I’m going to do my work differently” (Marilyn).
• Donor children, care and protection work, asylum seeking children.
• A different paradigm rather than entering through adults experiences (i.e what happens to an adult, ie marriage, separation, divorce) but instead what are the experiences children move through (Zoe). Youth Law Australia.

Phil Stahl (https://parentingafterdivorce.com/)

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• Discussion on Dr Phil Stahl’s take aways from the Pacifica Congress Conference in Hobart 2023.
• Why Dr Phil Stahl is a part of the Pacifica Congress Conference.
• Supercharged testimony talk at the conference.
• Differences in the approach in the USA.
• Tips to improve the quality of reports and assessments.
• Discussion of coercive control at Pacifica Congress 2023
• History of Pacifica Congress and predecessor AFCC.
• Learning from others who are not in psychology ie lawyers and Judges.
• Bringing together leaders in the field.
• Importance of lunchtime chats and informal discussions.
• Interdisciplinary work in family law and psychology in shades of grey, “but the law tends to be black and white.”
• “we can all learn from each other. We all work with children.”
• Connections made through Pacifica are important, they become like family.
• When we step back… we can then take a different approach to things.”

Olia Pelayo (https://www.childreninfocus.com.au)

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• Process, applications, forms etc and timeline (usually about 1 week from applying to be able to supervise).
• Locations that Children in Focus can attend
• How the role is explained to children. “Meet and greet” with children.
• Concerns of clients about supervision and Olia’s responses.
• Children in Focus work with the family as to what the children have been told about their role. Sometimes the children are fearful to see their parent and the children are fine to refer to them as the supervisor. In the meet and greet they explain the process, what will happen and if any safety words etc needed.
• “keeping the children safe basically” is the role of the supervisor.
• When the supervisor will intervene. I.e. immediate if child is hit etc. If there is a negative comment made, then supervisor may intervene and ask the parent to stop this behaviour. If behaviour continues then they may have to terminate visit.
• What is included in reports. Objective observation, things said to children, interactions, communication.
• Pure observation. No recommendations, opinions etc.
• Pathway families move through when using supervision. Supervision can be longer term. Sometimes it can be very brief for some reassurance and to build trust.
• Reports can mirror back to parents what their actions are.
• How reports can provide feedback and be a mirror for parents.
• Locations and also the cost of supervision.
• Qualifications of supervisors and training they receive.
• Issue when parents are paying for supervision and they then perceive themselves as the client who is paying for the service.
• Zoe: “In a way it is parents paying for the service… the payer has the power… so how does that work in protecting and empowering children when they are not the payer?”
• “Sometimes clients say “Well I paid for you, you better put this in the report the way I want it”… and “We say excuse me no, our client is the child. And we are here to make sure we do everything in the best interests of the child….We don’t take stuff like that from clients.”
• Important things to remember to include in Orders when supervisors are appointed. Ie be careful about being too specific on times before you have the supervisor appointed, ie what if the supervisor cannot attend at this time. Leave flexibility for the times the supervisor can attend. “At a time chosen by the supervisor” or a wording that allows the supervisor to nominate the time.

Dr Robert Simon (https://www.dr-simon.com/)

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• Film The Fort.
• Coercive controlling violence, intergenerational transmission of this.
• Mother finds her voice and stands up to the father, father kills the mother in the film.
• Perpetrator renders the victim helpless in a number of ways.
• Can included financial, physical and other forms of control.
• Gender symmetry in other forms of violence in families, but not in coercive controlling violence which is mainly male to female.
• Zoe asks: why is it that coercive controlling violence is so gendered?
• Lack of empathy of perpetrators.
• How do you stop this form of violence? On an individual level perpetrator may seek psychotherapy and also want to change.
• Victims can exit the relationship. Noting this is an extremely difficult and vulnerable time for victims as this is when they are in the most danger.
• “perpetrators don’t find court orders to be anything other than suggestions… and they’ll violate them” (even though they are not just suggestions, this is their perception).
• Shelters and supporting escape from the relationship. Location often not disclosed.
• On a societal level we have to make the knowledge of it common… we need to change it from being an ugly secrete that’s swept under the rug to something that everybody knows takes place and is willing to talk about. We need to educate all of us about the signs and signals that somebody is in trouble… and teach people how to do a little bit of outreach…”
• Case by case approach/. One person at a time.
• “At that moment of leaving that victim is at greatest risk.”
• 1 woman a week dies in Australia at the hands of a partner/ ex partner.
• “Battery programs” in the USA. Research suggests these are not that effective.
• Change doesn’t occur “unless a person is sincerely motivated… and sincere motivation is not escaping punishment, sincere motivation is wanting something better.”
• Victims still feel a lot of shame about family violence. We need to take the humiliation sting out of it.

Dr Phil Watts (https://www.mindstatepsychology.com.au/)

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• The voice of children
• “Children need to be heard, but we need to very careful involving them in a legal process. If they say too much or get too involved then it’s stressful, if they don’t get heard then they feel powerless and anxious and that’s not helpful either.”
• Sometimes children want to please both parents and may say different things to each parent to please them.
• Different things can happen:
  • They speak their mind – this can be hard to do
  • They duck for cover – try to stay out of dispute and say nothing wrong.
  • They pick sides – different ways they can do this. Can be aligning with most powerful side.
  • They don’t trust anyone.
• “layers of truth… its got to be at an appropriate level for their age of development.”
• Listen to what they are actually asking.
• Judges interviewing children. We need to look at the skill set of the person speaking with the children.
• Distinction between children’s likes vs children’s wishes. Important children understand that their “wishes” are not necessarily going to be “granted” as such or this breaks more trust.
• Dr Watts discusses what he says to children when he meets them. That he wants to find out what they like and what they don’t like to help the adults make the decisions best for them.
• “We should be talking about likes not wishes.”
• Within the existing system there are things Judges can do. Example about Judge drafting a statement of truth for the children as assisted by Dr Watts.
• “There are things we can do now.”
• “Children are not little adults, they have their own unique view of the world and we need to understand them.”
• “the better the court knows what the child is like” the more we can work out what is best for them.
• Looking at the world as a unique individual.
• What is the fundamental thing this child needs to get the best dose… of mum and dad.”
• What lawyers can do: move past parents desire to “win their rights, win their fight” and do what they can to keep focused on the child. For example a photo of the child at mediation in the centre of the table.

Dr Kaylene Evers (https://www.kayleneevers.com/)

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• “You need to own what you say… not sit on the fence. Be proscriptive, not descriptive.”
• “observation starts from the first phone call, it doesn’t just occur when someone turns up at your office.”
• “A Judge is looking to our professional experience to assist them.”
• Although it is not the key purpose of a report “a good report can be therapeutic because it might be that if its understood by the participants … they have an epiphany. The penny drops and they might change the way they interact. That’s glorious when that happens.”
• Explaining how we move from observation to recommendations.
• Dynamic movement from hypothesis and testing hypothesis, can include psychometric testing.
• Every child is different and every family is different. You can draw from benchmarks but then need to look at the individual family and child.

• Planning and also flexibility. You have to be flexible and are “constantly reformulating your hypothesis below the surface.”
• It is only a snap shot in time. “How can you extend the snapshot?”
• Zoe asks: How can report writers assess a family in such a narrow time frame/ ie one meeting? (Note Kaylene gives a very thorough answer so listen in!)
• Read all the documents (extends back the time frame)
• Meeting in person is only part of the jigsaw puzzle.
• Clarity and certainty VS flexibility in reports.
• If other new information comes to light (ie on cross examination) that may change your view. “It’s a dynamic process.”
• What are the changes we have seen in reports over the years?
• Kaylene: in the last 5-8 years there are more “fence sitting” reports that do not have clear recommendations.
• Vague reports add to the adversarial process.
• Harder to settle a matter at mediation if report is unclear (Zoe).
• Report writers need to be clear and explain how they got to that recommendation ie join the dots and why they think what they think.
• Perhaps some report writers are concerned about being cross examined. However if they have worked through the reasons for why they think what they think, report writers should not fear cross. It can be an opportunity to explain their reasons and if new information comes to light, help refine what is in the best interests for children.
• This is also why we are here at Pacifica Congress – to learn from each other, have dialogue and focus on what is in the best interests of children.
• Interdisciplinary perspectives.

Susan Warda, Mills Oakley (https://www.millsoakley.com.au/)

Bernie Bolger, The mediation Collective (https://mediationcollective.com.au/)

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• ICP – Interdisciplinary collaborative practice
• Form of ADR (alternative dispute resolution)
• Contract from the outset that lawyers cease to act if matter litigates
• What is the role of the neutrals? (I.e child psychologist or financial expert)
• Neutrals can help level the power between the parties (if power imbalance or imbalance in knowledge)
• Hearing the same information from someone new (ie expert) can be easier to digest.
• “Not just about legal entitlements, we are looking at it wholistically” (Bernie)
• “Preserving relationships and resources” (Zoe)
• Neutrals can also assist with education
• “it’s a process that allows you to move on with decency and dignity” (Susan)
• Transparency across the process.
• Sometimes parties have not lived in the same reality / perception of the relationship. Collaborative practice really allows both lawyers to hear both parties perceptions.
• Part of the contract to act respectfully.
• “A lot of times mediation is a pre step to Court.” (Bernie)
• “There are no position papers in a collaborative process.” (Bernie)
• How to access the collaborative process.
• “There are very few matters that don’t resolve.” (Susan)
• Resolution is in the late 90’s in terms of percentage.
• “It actually is a joyful way to work.” (Bernie)
• “Isn’t it better off having both lawyers using their energies to work for the family as a whole rather than pitting their energies against each other in order to win. In order for one person to win the other person has to lose. But in collaborative matters it’s such a team effort.” (Bernie)
• “Isn’t it a legacy that we can leave the family in a place where they can be a separated family that respect each other.” (Bernie)
• History of Stu Webb and collaborative process. If you remove the threat of Court out this gives space and time and safety to resolve matters.
• 3pm at mediations: “I’ll see you in Court.” Removing this. Setting the process up for failure.
• “Disclosure obligations are exactly the same as any other traditional form of dispute resolution.” (Susan)
• “Why can’t we honour the relationship that was while moving to the next phase of our lives. This was a time in our lives, let’s honour it.” (Bernie).

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

If you would like to attend the champagne celebration on 1 November 2023 for the Inside Family Law and network with our remarkable guests that we have hosted over the years secure your spot at: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/736405357247?aff=oddtdtcreator

• “Focusing on outcomes… parties just want to resolve their matters… it is not always about I’m right and you’re wrong.” Jessica Strangio
• “Pacifica Congress was all about supporting families through the dispute resolution process and sharing the knowledge with other practitioners being lawyers and social scientist practitioners… and help families by sharing that knowledge.” Stephanie Azzi
• “how can we best support an expert during cross examination so they can give us the best evidence and information the court needs?” Stephanie Azzi
• Value of interdisciplinary discussion (across disciplines)
• Safe spaces for informal discussion: the role of coffee in law as a pressure valve and informal conversations
• Key highlights of the conference – single experts
• Value of hearing practices in other states (across states/ geography)
• Input and amount of time to prepare a Family Report
• Understanding at the Conference how does an expert get from A to B to Z. Why is it they think what they think?
• No regulating body for family court reporting experts. Also, when they study there is no family law subjects.
• Shortage of experts. Would having a set criteria or regulating body would that allow more new experts into the area?
• In Tasmania Judges tend to meet with children. Different approaches across the states.
• Proactive approaches we can take at a grass roots level (i.e. not all changes being at the level of legislation, but at the level of what we can seek day to day i.e thinking more creatively about Orders to seek from the Court if suitable).
• Collegiality and connecting with colleagues. How the lawyers having a rapport can actually assist clients -being able to cut through issues more efficiently. This can also save money for the client.
• “things can happen at the level of a gesture” (Zoe) – sometimes it is about being able to pick up the phone and be able to call the other practitioner and resolve it on a practical level.
• Coffee cart (sponsored by Raftons) is a core metaphor for dialogue, informal discussion and rapport between colleagues.

Dr Simon Kennedy https://www.psychologycamberwell.com/dr-simon-kennedy

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

• From assessment to inference. The difficult part of reports is making recommendations.
• Making recommendations is a quantum leap.
• 22 major factors from literature and clinical practice that are central to making recommendations
• Assessing in structured professional judgment what the factors are.
• Factors may include age, attachment relationship, family dysfunction, disability of a child, practical factors (such as travel distance), communication between the parents etc.
• Weight the factors.
• Each family is slightly different.
• Movement away from formulaic recommendations. I.e. “under age 4, x nights per fortnight etc”.
• Need to assess the family and children’s needs.
• Structured professional judgment to guide assessment and decision making.
• Nuanced approach that addresses a matrix of factors
• Benefits of children spending time with both parents
• One of the major controversies is age. We also need to take into account all the factors.
• Changes in family law over time: role of fathers has evolved.
• Covid has led to flexible work arrangements and changes in parenting arrangements.
• Benefit to children of both parents sharing their care.
• Current problems: children on devices
• Review of family reports
• Shortage of therapeutic treatment
• Protection for practitioners in family law (lack of enough family report writers).

• Film, the Fort. Using the arts as messaging. Education, prevention and disruption.
• Voice of Change.
• Film shows coercive control and different types of violence.
• What can I do to facilitate change?
• What is an active bystander?
• “How can I help? What can I do?”
• Calling out behaviours.
• Shame associated with family violence.
• Ripple effect once we call out behaviour.
• What is family violence?
• Family violence in covid including in cases where English is a second language
• Lack of empathy.
• Comments in the workplace.
• Muscle memory. Tools to call out the behaviour.
• Contact Voice of Change for access to the film “The Fort”.
• Workplaces, changes in sports, education, corporate
• Victim shaming.
• Private vs public sphere. If is all connected, different spheres of influence.
• Hearing a message multiple times over time.
• Statistics on deaths due to family violence.
• Film “India’s daughter” – “if someone finds a diamond on the road of course they are going to pick it up”.
• Think equal curriculum – teaching children empathy (3-4 year olds).
• The education we have on how to pick a partner “you have Disney, fairytales and porn” to guide you from childhood as to how to pick a healthy relationship.
• Respectful relationships, Consent education in school.
• Porn – strangulation in porn. Children have access to porn via devices. “No one wants to talk about porn and no one wants to talk about sexual relationships.” (That’s why we are keeping it in the podcast!). Sex and violence.
• Consent and influence of porn – difficulty as teenagers feeling they have to give the consent to strangulation.
• Having hard conversations.
• Bystander VS active bystander.
• Possible changes to the law re family violence.
• National definition of family violence.
• Consequences for patterns of behaviour.
• We live in a strange age of “Stone age emotions, medieval beliefs, god like technology many people can reach”.
• It’s the simple things.
• There are things we can do. We need the words.

Shaynna Blaze (www.shaynnablaze.com)

Sally Nicholes (www.nicholeslaw.com.au)

Voice of change www.voiceofchangeau.org

You can access the film “The Fort” via Voice of change

At the Pacifica Congress Conference live in Hobart 2023 www.pacificacongress.org

The Inside Family Law Podcast is hosted by Zoe Durand at Mediation Answers www.mediationanswers.com.au in partnership with Lawyer Magic and ArtWork.

• What is SplitWorld?
• What is the purpose of SplitWorld?
• Discussion of modules. Property and assets module, parenting module, and documenting agreement.
• How the algorithm for the financial calculator (property) was developed.
• Idea that “The process depletes the resources” of the family and SplitWorld’s intention to be a self empowered process.
• Intention to assist parties to collaborate.
• DIY Divorce tool kit to save time, emotion and money.
• Not all matters are appropriate for this process.
• Different ways to use SplitWorld.
• Parenting plan module and education resources about how to best support children through separation via blog and direct mail.
• Future trends for SplitWorld ”there is a drive to disrupt the system”.
• Human element in determining justice and equity and how this works with an algorithm (financial calculator).
• “At a higher level, where does justice and equity exist? In this process the justice and equity exists inside the perspective of the two people navigating the divorce… The sense and the feeling of justice and equity comes from me if I am going through the process and I arrive at the end of it and I feel justice has been met."
• “The justice and equity exists within them.”
• “We want to stand in the possibility that separation can be amicable and that each partner can choose this and that if people choose this…then they are immediately in control to steer outcomes in alignment with this choice.”
• The parties can collaborate together. They can modify what the financial calculator says, i.e do not have to agree with the financial calculator outcome, but use it as a guide only.
• In collating the information for the financial calculator parties think in a practical way about how their future lives will work. The process of collating the data for the financial calculator can in and of itself be useful.
• Retaining resources – time, energy, money inside the family unit as “invaluable.”
• Future of SplitWorld.

www.split.world

• Lockdown – parenting during a lockdown
• School holidays have moved forward in Victoria – school holiday time changes to family law.
• Follow the orders to the best of your ability. Try to communicate if possible (via lawyer or directly).
• Changeover and also other safety issues. I.e one parents' residence vs the other parents' residence. Safety issues during Coronavirus. “Reasonable excuse” to contravene orders and what constitutes this.
• Panic affecting decision making.
• Family violence. Court continuing, however processes are modified i.e. use of telephone and other electronic communication.
• Family law firms and mediation continuing via technology. 
• Changes to the types of matters during Coronavirus.
• Difficulty separating during Coronavirus.
• Tensions as families live and work together in constant close contact.
• Property matters and Coronavirus i.e. reduced value of shares and superannuation and how this is affecting family law matters.
• Court – doing the best job they can during this time.
• The online world is now the “real” world. Changes in work practices.
• "The real world is not the real world."
• Court now allowing subpoenas to be filed online.
• Some practices may remain after Coronavirus – new work climate coming out of this.
• WFHLife i.e Working from home life and how to stay active at home (from a former Olympic athlete). Mental and physical health.  
• “Use it as an opportunity to try something different.”
• Reaching Hayder at Justice Family Lawyers on google.

Paul Doolan (Partner at Barkus Doolan)  and Zoe Durand discuss:

• Parenting - compliance with orders due to coronavirus and health conditions. 
• Commonsense and making decisions in best interests of children.
• Property issues, loss of value of assets and loss of income.
• Impaired ability to pay child support, spouse maintenance. 
• How s75(2) factors may be affected. 
• Unique circumstance of loss on value of assets and earning capacity (unlike past economic recessions).
• Difficulty for people resolving disputes at the moment. 
• Sense of community in family law during Coronavirus.
• Changes in the Court and increased use of technology during Coronavirus.
• Practical issues for lawyers i.e. signing up affidavits etc, deposing of documents, getting both parties to sign the same document, changes re tendering documents.
• Lack of supervisors to supervise time. 
• Long term changes that may persist after Coronavirus.
• Family Violence - UK  example.
• Potential family law reform.
• Merger of Courts.
• Paul's comments on Senator Pauline Hanson and her views.
• Paul Doolan's own personal views about family law reform. 
• Legal Aid and false economy of cutting funding to Legal Aid.
• Wider question of "Who are we these reforms for? Where should the law reform be targeted?"

• How to empower people going through the process.
• What information to prepare for your lawyer: in parenting and property matters. Checking facts and details in a one page summary.
• Be completely frank with your lawyer. 
• Pre-sorting financial disclosure for your lawyer to save legal fees.
• Being clear about objectives and seeking assistance from other professionals.
• Cues that you have the right/ wrong lawyer for you. Trusting your lawyer.  Is your lawyer over promising?
• Time frames and communication.
• Expertise of lawyers, accreditation.
• Is your lawyer objective and calm.
• “One of the worst things we can do as a lawyer is get on board with our clients’ emotional distress.” Be wary of correspondence that is unnecessarily emotive and lengthy.
• Lawyers that are too aligned with client are doing the client a disservice.
• A good lawyer will offer a measure of pushback. “Toxic can come in all different ways.”
• Every case is different. Beware of the advice from friends, neighbours and google. Your fact situation is different to others.
• Adapt as you go along.
• Listen to your lawyer – delays are difficult and lawyers understand this is a problem.

Find Jacqui Dawson at Sexton Family Law.

https://sextonfamilylaw.com.au/index.php/portfolio/about-us-2/

Come along to the UNSW family law intensive https://www.edge.unsw.edu.au/sites/default/files/2019-11/Family%20Law%20Intensive%20Program.pdf  where I will be chairing the day. 

• What is peaceful divorce?
• What is the coaching process in practicality.  In terms of timing, people can be helped at any stage of the process.
• Lawyer as entry point into seeking out other services.
• Retelling of negative narratives via divorce process.
• Emotional blind spots and fear. 
• "As a coach I am trained to walk the path with the client."
• How coaching can help clients become more self aware. Dialing down emotions.
• Difference between therapy and divorce coaching.
• Helping clients with the divorce process. “Being an objective thinking partner”.
• History of the role of divorce coaching.  In the USA and UK and now Australia.
• Parenting coordination.
• Difference between support from friends and support from coach. Coach as an “accountability buddy.” Helpful objective thinking partner to assist them. Friends who mean well but can be destructive to the process.  "Each person’s experience is unique.  When it comes to your divorce you need to put certain people on a shelf."
• How divorce coaching can help the lawyer-client relationship. Coaching helping clients better understand their lawyer.

Find Anne-Marie Cade at https://www.divorceright.com.au/author/admin/

See www.kinshipbooks.com

Or reach Rachel through the Relationspace

Max's Divorce Earthquake Illustrated by Angela Perrini and written by Rachel Brace.

At Mediation Answers, Level 21, 133 Castlereagh Street, Sydney

From 5.30pm, Wednesday 25 September 2019.

Around 6pm: Short speeches by Zoë Durand and The Hon. Peter Rose AM QC, facilitated by ABC journalist Katherine Gregory. 

Enjoy an evening of champagne, drinks, nibbles and networking with interviewees from the podcast and book and your colleagues. 

If you would like to be on the Inside Family Law podcast, be there or be square, as we will be bringing our booking schedule and filling spaces for the next 6 months on the evening.  Also any sequel to the book will be taken from these podcasts, so now is your chance!

Copies of the Inside Family Law book will be available for purchase, so you can grab an autograph from your favourite Inside Family Law podcast or book interviewees on the evening.

About the Inside Family Law Podcast

The Inside Family Law podcast continues the interdisciplinary conversations from the Inside Family Law book, which was seen on the ABC, The Australian, Sydney Morning Herald, A Current Affair, 9News, 10Daily and 9Honey and awarded the APAC Award for Family Law Publication of the Year 2019. Zoë was recently the official AFCC correspondent reporting on the ground at the Sydney AFCC conference via her podcast. Watch for future reporting via the podcast at other family law conferences around the world.

Interviewees from the podcast and book include: The Honourable Diana Bryant AO QC, The Honourable Stephen Thackray, Judge Tom Altobelli, Judge Alexandra Harland, Judge Joe Harman, Registrar Brett McGrath, The Honourable Mark La Poer Trench, The Honourable Peter Rose AM QC, Robyn Sexton, Stephen Scarlett, Trevor Tockar, Darren Mort, Tom Hutchings, Dr Jenni Neoh, Vincent Papaleo, Dr Antony Milch, Alison O'Neill, Linda Campbell, Rachel Brace, Brian Pickup, David Bird and Mark Lipson. 

Beyond those who work directly in family law, this event may be of interest to those who work in other adjacent areas, but wish to meet and network with family lawyers.

Listen in to the podcast at https://zoedurand.podbean.com/ or on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/13tbYOANgI7w9R6svg9tH2?si=36Oku1yiRgiJNyHoSZUNGw

To get in touch with  Zoë see www.mediationanswers.com.au or email zoe@mediationanswers.com.au.

The evening is being kindly sponsored by Clarence Workplaces for Professionals and Legal Home Loans.

• Why Dr Simon supports the AFCC, interdisciplinary nature of AFCC: Talks that leave you “Wondering and imagining.”
• International perspectives on family law, example regarding Hawaii and the role of the grandmother in that family, without understanding Culture you may see things through a “lens that did not see it properly”.
• Experiences in San Diego; military families.
• Allowing the family to educate you about their family: honouring the family when you work with them.
• Children’s views and perspectives.
• Allowing children to have their views matter, but not over exposing them to adult issues: a complicated dance. It is about intention.
• All parents make mistakes: a learning opportunity to show children how it is okay to make mistakes and own them.
• Children’s voices in the Court process: “The prime stakeholder.” The child’s voice needs to be heard, as it is a matter of respect. Children have their own rights and personhood.

• The Honourable Stephen Thakray’s career path through the family law process including having been a Chief Justice of the Family Court of Western Australia, and Senior Judge of the Appeal division of Family Court of Australia and Acting Chief Justice of the Family Court of Australia, his current work as a mediator and prior to all that, in his words, “a boy from country WA.”
• Work in Newman in the Pilbara region of Western Australia and new processes for Aboriginal Australians in county WA created in consultation with Aboriginal people in that region. Including the removal of forms and more flexibility around Court attendance times.
• Parties having a lawyer and interpreter.
• Feedback from clients who have used the service: “The only thing that matters is what the clients think.”
• The Hon Thackray’s school years side by side with Aboriginal Australian students (the majority of students in his school).
• “What I didn’t know at the time Zoe, was that the children I was going to school with were part of the Stolen Generation. They all lived on a mission and we were told that they were all orphans and that they were being looked after by white people. And it was only later that I learned that they were not orphans. I have thought very deeply about the dispossession of our Aboriginal people in Australia and that we have an obligation to do a lot more than what we have done in the past.”
• “To ask Aboriginal people what will work for them.”
• “We don’t have the answers for other people, they are much more likely to come up with the answers for themselves”.
• Discussion of the Indigenous list in Sydney and work of Robyn Sexton (former Federal Circuit Court Judge).
• To try to do things differently because people are different: “We don’t need to proceed on the basis that everyone is white, everyone is rich or everyone is educated or everyone speaks English. We need to accept the differences in our community and then look to how to work with them.”
• “Everyone has something to contribute”.
• New Zealand family law experience and Maori people.
• The importance of having enthusiasm for making family law better for our clients.
• Judges who are being appointed need to have an understanding of family law, but also some “sympathy for it and a feel for the area”. Judges need to understand family violence and also child development.
• There need to be enough Judges so they can have the time to make decisions and Judges need to be well supported.
• Court should be a place of last resort, but some cases do need an agreement to be reached in court.
• Cross referrals to other supports; drugs, alcohol, violence. People need support for the real issue.

• The Hon Diana Bryant’s career path in family law.
• Family law reform. ALRC report and Diana’s personal views about family law reform.
• Education for parents and also possible education for children at school about divorce and separation. Increasing awareness about how to be child focused during separation.
• Importance of incorporating the children’s voice in a better way in family law.
• Need for standardisation of the way Court Appointed Independent Children’s Lawyers work.
• Importance of children having “a voice, not a choice” and importance of children knowing that their voices are heard and respected.
• Diana’s discussion with school students about their experiences through the family law process.
• Diana’s view that the Government should focus on education for parents more broadly about how conflict can damage children. “The government should get into the space and have a campaign.”
• Better streaming and triaging of matters and categorisation of lists – ie simpler and more complex matters.
• ICL’s, mediation and ADR in family law.

• Why Judge Harland is drawn to the AFCC. The positive efforts of the AFCC and family report writer training.
• Family law as intersecting with many different areas and professions.
• Perspective that change can happen at the coalface with those who work in the area of family law.
• Increasingly better coordination between the different professionals in family law.
• Family Court and Federal Circuit Court and coordination that has already been occurring between the Courts and streamlining court rules and processes.
• Tips and words of support for parents who are separating.
• Children’s difficulty with transition and the damage that even silence, not just negative comments, can do.
• Standardised training for family report writers launched by AFCC.
• History of AFCC and joining the AFCC.

• History of Judge Altobelli’s career.
• Judge Altobelli’s views about why he is a member of the AFCC.
• The importance of collaboration between professionals in the family law system.
• Issues particular to Wollongong registry including socio-economic disadvantage of some of the parties.
• Supportive insights for those going through a separation.
• “As unpredictable as the journey might be, keep your focus on what is best for your children. Focus on the kids and think long term”.

• Albert’s personal history as a donor conceived child.
• Sperm donation in the 1970’s.
• Identity as a human right – the rights of a child and open sourcing of identity.
• Psychological impact of growing up not knowing one’s biological family: “I fell from the sky”.
• Existential debt – expectation that donor conceived people and also adopted people should be perpetually “grateful”.
• “Here’s a common theme amongst donor conceived people; you know even when you don’t know.”
• “Nobody is actually keeping track, nobody even knows exactly how many donor conceived people are out there and whether they know that they are donor conceived and for that reason it is impossible to conduct proper studies on this.”
• “But there is a lot of anecdotal evidence from adopted and donor conceived people saying that there are significant psychological and emotional issues surrounding identity and who are we and where do we belong in this world.”
• “Still is this feeling of being rootless. And it is probably impossible to describe what that feeling is unless you experience it.”
• “You can be grateful for your life and the parents who raised you and there can still be a gaping hole that you need to fill in because of this fundamental, existential uncertainty that you have about who you are.”
• Bio ethics issues.
• Albert’s personal views about sperm donor conception and surrogacy in different circumstances.
• Albert’s Jewish heritage and the significance of this living in Vienna.
• Birthrights that Albert feels have been taken from him.
• Albert’s career as a concert pianist and his wondering about where this talent came from.
• Nature vs nurture.

• What is parenting co-ordination?
• How long does parenting co-ordination last?
• High conflict matters and court resources.
• Powers of the Court not usurped by parenting coordination – judicial authority and parenting coordination?
• Role of parenting coordinator to assist, facilitate and empower the parties.
• Education by the parenting coordinator.
• Transforming the way parents relate to each other so ultimately, hopefully they can resolve their disputes directly.
• Parenting coordination as a logical extension of the mediation process in Australia.
• Parenting coordination is not therapy and is not legal advice, a new profession of the “parenting coordinator.”
• Training and qualifications to become a parenting coordinator.
• Domestic violence and parenting coordinator.
• Including an order in Consent Orders for parenting coordinator.
• Recommendations by the parenting coordinator can be used in Court proceedings.
• South African experience with parenting coordination and the use of PC clauses in consent orders and parenting plans and how it grew and developed organically.
• Research in Canada and America on the reduction of re-ligation.
• History of parenting coordination.
• Hong Kong, Singapore, Spain, UK and Australian training.
• America, Canada and South Africa and the history of parenting co-ordination.
• Australian WA experiences of parenting coordination.
• Will there be resistance to parenting coordination in Australia? Recent judgment regarding several aspects of PC.
• Breaches of orders and contravention applications and how PC may reduce this.

• Darren’s career history of acting, producing and working as a barrister in family law.
• The story of Tommy – Film and children’s book about Tommy whose parents are separating.
• To Be Loved organisation, creating resources to support parents and children through separation.
• Darren’s personal views about how courts should not be used as a forum to abuse an ex partner and children having a more adequate presence in the court

Tobeloved.org.au

• Dr Stahl’s experience and work throughout the United States and the world.
• How the majority of parents can develop problems on their own via Alternative Dispute Resolution.
• 20% or so of families there are problems that make it difficult to resolve disputes.
• Domestic violence and different types of violence: separation instigated violence, situational couple violence, coercive controlling violence. How in coercive controlling violence escalates after separation. Need to differentiate violence the type of violence in a family.
• Technology and stalking.
• Substance abuse – an issue across the world.
• Relocation – creates several complications. Language, culture, distance issues and child development that follow.
• Personality style / mental health of parents: narcissism, psychopathy and other personality issues. High conflict parties. Difficult personalities, for example co-parenting with Donald Trump.
• Parents who hate each other more than they love their children.
• Film “Tommy” by Darren Mort, showing the traumatic affects of conflict and other issues such as substance abuse by parents on a child.
• Firstly acknowledge the work we have been doing in the area.
• Secondly ensure there are enough resources for the Court to be able to make proper assessments.

Parentingafterdivorce.com

• Website and mobile app for co-parents who have separated.
• Messaging functions with tone metre (“spell check “ for your tone), calendar function, parenting schedule, info bank (storing medical information).
• Lawyers and other professionals can also be given access to the parties account.
• Tone metre – developed by a linguistics company. Gives parents a moment to reflect prior to sending a message.
• Calendar function to assist parents – auto populating of time arrangements.
• Communication, school, medical information and time arrangements in one place.
• Messages from children can be uploaded to Our Family Wizard.
• Admissibility of documents uploaded to Our Family Wizard. Nothing can be deleted or created/ tampered with. Mediators can also use access to Our Family Wizard.
• Fees (approx $130 per party) and giving back to the community.
• Security, encryption of data.
• Future of our Family Wizard: Geo-tagging function being developed and moments section to share what parents have been enjoying doing with the children. Building strength and resilience between the parents.

• Both New Zealand and Australia place importance on family law mediation.
• Family mediation works in similar ways in New Zealand and Australia.
• Parties in New Zealand are allowed more hours of mediation than in Australia.
• Several multiple sessions of mediation in New Zealand.
• Issue of delays in Court in New Zealand.
• Recommendations regarding family law reform in New Zealand.
• Child focused and child inclusive mediation in New Zealand.

• Stephen Page’s personal journey to have his daughter Elizabeth using surrogacy: “overwhelming joy of generosity” from the surrogate
• Bumps in the road along the surrogacy journey; medicare rebait, changing clinics. Also the surrogate had a miscarriage and later an ectopic pregnancy.
• Issues in the hospital following the birth of Elizabeth.
• Reflections on potential changes to surrogacy in Australia, following his own personal experience.

• Focus of his talks at the AFCC Conference.
• Dr Simon’s history in family law, around the world and in particular in the United States.
• Understand a families “Culture” and their “culture”. Each family has their own culture unique to them.
• Usually, the greatest risk to children is the conflict in and of itself, not the thing they are having the conflict about: “The problem is not the problem.”
• It is incredibly hard, but rewarding to work through these issues as a parent:
• There is something about the process of conflict that draws you in. Parents are not bad people for having made mistakes: “I made all the mistakes.“
• How to change and learn how to put your children first during separation.
• The need for forgiveness of each other and of yourself.
• Do you ever get a spot on your shirt? Find a therapist who presents as authentic and fully human.

• History of Jeffrey’s career and personal experience with divorce prior to working as a family lawyer.
• Jeffrey’s personal experience having ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder) and how he has made this work to his advantage as a family law.
• Tips on preparation of affidavit evidence
• Jeffrey’s personal experiences and the fall out years later after a separation including his continued estrangement from his daughter.
• Jeffrey’s tips for parties going through the process based on his own personal experiences and as a lawyer
• Jeffrey’s family history with his family migrating from China to Australia in the 1850’s during the Gold Rush and the migration back and forth between Australia and China of his grandparents and parents.
• Cultural issues in family law and how in Chinese culture you often veer away from emotion and how in Asian cultures more generally dealing with emotions can be difficult.
• Chinese Australian families in the Australian family law process – are cross cultural issues understood?
• Different family structures and different concepts of closeness in Chinese families; second and third cousins are considered as akin to siblings versus the Ango- Australian families which are much more focused on the nuclear family.
• Migrant experience of sacrifice and the fact they often do need to send their children back overseas to be raised by extended family.
• Jeffrey’s views on the proposed ALRC recommendations
• Jeffrey’s approach to family law matters.
• Good on Jeffrey for speaking so openly about his ADHD and how he has found a way to make it work for (not against him) in his career.

David and I discuss:

• David Leckie's background
• Aims of Divorce Hotel International
• History of Divorce Hotel International
• Process for separating via Divorce Hotel International
• Children being affected by exposure to conflict and how this changes who they will become as adults.
• Preparatory work and screening
• Actual process over the weekend at Divorce Hotel
• Marking the end of the relationship
• Experts available during mediation process
• How clients are seeking something else/ pushing other agendas that are not always met via the Court process (i.e. marking the emotional end to the relationship)
• Holistic approach at Divorce Hotel, including the types of professionals who may be available to support clients
• Divorce hotel coming to Sydney soon... Stay tuned

For more on Divorce Hotel International see https://www.divorcehotel.co.uk/

For more on Zoë's work as a mediator and author of Inside Family Law (the book) see www.mediationanswers.com.au

Zoë is also a consultant lawyer at Evans Elliott Lawyers https://www.eelawyers.com.au/our-people

• What is different about Raftons and their approach
• Taking a commercial approach
• encouraging settlement
• Initial conferences
• Advice regarding costs
• Communication with clients
• 'Process driven' ways of doing family law and how this can lead to not being able to see the wood for the trees.
• Having a proportionate response to the matter and issues in a matter.
• Arbitration.
• Billing in family law, issues around incentives for efficiency in billing.
• Mediation and issues surrounding delay in government funded centres offering mediation.
• Different parenting styles.

• Nicole’s career history and what drew her to family law
• The challenges of family law in particular for younger practitioners
• Nicole’s tips for winning over the client’s confidence when you are a younger practitioner 
• Challenges between practitioners for younger lawyers, i.e is there a 'reverse ageism' in the area against younger family lawyers?
• Nicole’s strategies for working with other practitioners who may have an unconscious bias against younger lawyers.
• Listening to the client’s concerns and emotional intelligence
• Taking charge of a matter and managing the pathway forward
• Thoughts on collegiate approaches in family law.
• Mentoring and helping the next wave of lawyers younger than you.

Get to know more about Nicole at https://www.swaab.com.au/team/nicole-pozovsky

For more on Zoe Durand's book and work as a lawyer and mediator see www.mediationanswers.com.au

- Judgement in the recent High Court case

- Positive and negative implications for families, parents, donors and children of this case

- Ideas for law reform following this case

- Recommendations for those entering into having a child with a known donor.

- Why the floodgates have not been opened by this matter and it is not necessarily as reported in some media that "sperm donor found to be parent".  How the father in this case also played the role of being a father above and beyond just being a sperm donor.

• Kerry’s work for Our Watch
• Stories of family violence from women Kerry has met
• Respect for both genders
• Various campaigns and work by Our Watch, in particular educational and preventative campaigns
• How people are now speaking up more about family violence
• Gendered pattern to family violence and deeper issues in society about gender respect and misogyny in Australia and how this is a long term inter-generational issue
• Gender equity, including in politics
• Common myths and misconceptions about family violence
• Widespread nature of family violence across different communities and parts of society
• Increase in reporting numbers of domestic violence
• Changes in police attitudes and how AVO’s are prosecuted
• Affects on children of family violence
• Kerry’s personal views about family violence and the family law process, including increased understanding in particular by Judiciary of family violence
• Improvements in resourcing for family violence
• Where to start if someone is experiencing family or domestic violence.
• How to support and work with Our Watch

For more on Our Watch go to: https://www.ourwatch.org.au/

For more on Inside Family Law, or Zoe's work as a lawyer, mediator or speaker go to www.mediationanswers.com.au 

• Her unique family therapy where she works intensively with families for 4 full days consecutively (as opposed to say for a session once a week ongoing). Including a breakdown of what occurs during this therapy on each day.
• History of how this therapy was created, including drawing on experiences from family law in the USA.
• How this therapy has worked in complex cases, including where there is a rejected parent, children with anxiety and also importantly in cases where there is family violence.
• 'Alienation' or 'rejected parent' cases.
• Cognitive behavioural work with children with anxiety.
• The importance of fun during the therapy.
• Her views about reunification therapy and also her views on other more conventional therapies that involve say one meeting for a limited period once a week ongoing and some of the potential risks of this kind of therapy. 
• Her approach focusing on parties behaviours rather than insight.
• The future of her approach to therapy.
• The AFCC (Association of Family and Conciliation Courts)
• New additional qualification being offered to family report writers.

For more on Brett see:

https://www.gadens.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Brett-McGrath-Profile.pdf

For more on Zoë Durand (mediator, lawyer) and Inside Family Law (the podcast and book) see www.mediationanswers.com.au 

Talking candidly about working as a family lawyer and also life, the universe and everything... including the behind the scenes of writing a book with an under 1 one year old and motherhood and creativity. 

• Background re Mark La Poer Trench- his French heritage and career path
• Retirement age for Judges
• The voice of the child, children's wishes and the weight given to these in the context of societal changes (increasing maturity of children)
• Self represented litigants and how to work best with them
• Creative ideas for how we can best assist self represented litigants including insights from Canada and the 'Justice Cafe'

You can reach The Hon. Mark La Poer Trench at Waratah Chambers http://waratahchambers.com.au

You can reach mediator and lawyer Zoë Durand at https://www.mediationanswers.com.au/ More information on her book Inside Family Law is also available here.  Inside Family Law (the book) contains never before released interviews with Judges, barristers, lawyers, experts, and litigants and children's first hand experiences of the family law system.

If you want to get in touch about my podcast, my mediation services or work as a lawyer, or the CPD's or SOS Lawyer Magic workshop I offer then please contact me as below.  If you would like to know about the Inside Family Law book also see the below website. :-)

www.mediationanswers.com.au

zoe@mediationanswers.com.au

(02) 8249 4531 / 0435 595 400

• for presumption of equal contributions during the relationship.
• presumption that superannuation accumulated during the relationship should be equally divided.
• relevant date to ascertain the value of assets to be changed to the date of separation.
• personal costs orders against lawyers.
• requirement for compulsory mediation prior to filing Court proceedings in not just parenting but also property matters.
• returning family law matters to the States.
• Arbitration in parenting matters, and family violence.
• Amy also discussed her own views about the need for greater consistency in Court, and also:
• Family violence and how proceedings can in some situations be used by perpetrators to perpetuate control.
• Self represented litigants.
• Costs.

• how to best support children through a separation.
• Cases where children are not seeing a parents (i.e. 'alienation', estrangement and rejected parent cases).
• How endemic conflict affects children and also how it impacts them when they become adults.
• family therapy in family law (reportable or unreportable?)
• High conflict personalities. 
• Children’s best interests vs parents obsessive pursuit of “fairness."
• Intercultural families.
• Attachment theory.
• ALRC proposed reforms and Arbitration in parenting matters.
• Thoughts for how family lawyers and clinical psychologists can better work together in family law matters

• International mediation.
• Assistance to parents whose children have been removed overseas including the Hague Convention.
• Issues of family violence and the Hague convention
• Questions around if removing a child overseas be criminalised
• Changes in child abduction matters as we become a more global world.

• The background facts and history of the proceedings
• The wider consequences for families of this case, depending on how the High Court decides it.
• What can we learn from all of this in terms of practical steps that can be taken before a child is born when a known sperm donor is involved to ensure there is greater clarity for all parties
• What is the nexus between biology and parenthood
• How children's perceptions are given weight
• How the “reality” of modern family structures may not be able to be properly captured with our current legislation.
• The tension between flexibility and clarity in the law.