Unchurchable

Cynane Shay - A Thousand Years of Bullshirt (The Taxil Hoax)

Wed, 06 Aug 2025 03:16:20 -0300

Yes, I used "The Good Place" naming paradigm for this one. Cynane Shay joins me to talk about the wildest thing I've heard in a while. Well, the wildest thing I've heard since this morning when I read the latest Trump Headlines, because thats the world we live in at the moment.

Cynane is a nuclear engineer whose fascination for conspiracy theories and the far-right has caused to her to look deep into what we believe and why. And this one is a doozy. Follow her On instagram (taking off the tinfoil hat) or check out her website below.

www.TakingOffTheTinfoilHat.com

Celeste Irwin - the exvangelical trans life in Trumps America

Wed, 16 Jul 2025 07:18:34 -0300

I've been wanting to get Celeste on the podcast for a while. As an out and proud trans woman who doesn't hold the same hatred for church as what the modern day Church seems to hold for trans people, she is a gentle and calm voice in a turbulent sea. In the lead up to the second inauguration of Donald Trump, she was rushing facial feminisation surgery, and now she's living authentically as a parent and partner in a country in which being herself is a revolutionary act.

She is trans. And she is Christian. And you should follow her on substack at https://www.celestefinally.com or on instagram @celestefinally

Renee Spencer - Estranged Parents are cult victims too. A survivor story

Tue, 17 Jun 2025 02:52:40 -0300

Today's episode is a special one. When my friend and co-runner of the Victorian Cult Survivors Network told me she had finally found the courage to tell her story in its full and raw form, I shot my hand up to host it here with the Unchurchables.

Renee lost her daughter to the Kidney Cult (also known as the Jesus Christians). Somewhere, her daughter still exists. She is still loved and missed, but mother and daughter are on opposite sides of the ocean, and of an idealogical divide brokered by a cruel cult leader - one who Renee successfully sued for defamation and won.

Todays episode is a heartbreaking tale with all of the trigger warnings. But I hope it serves as a reminder that the damage of cults isn't limlited to the one on the inside. Estranged parents and family of those radicalised into coercive cults are part of that damage too, and their stories matter greatly. Go kindly as you listen. Thank you Renee for finding your voice, and fighting for reform. One day, I hope to celebrate with you as your daughter finds her way back to you.

Find her work at the links below:

www.recoverfromcoercivecontrol.com⁩

⁦https://youtube.com/@recoverfromcoercivecontrol?si=erwBTZuadZn17PYH⁩

⁦https://www.tiktok.com/@renee_rfcc?_t=ZS-8xH0nR18CoC&_r=1⁩

Ari Sherwood and a Jesus Named Jeff

Tue, 27 May 2025 21:13:50 -0300

This episode comes with a content warning: we are discussing heavy themes including coerced marriage and modern slavery. Please look after yourself as you read.

This is an important episode. Art Sherwood, host of the DisAllusioned podcast, joins me to talk about how she applied for a job as a massage therapist and got radicalised into a philosophy cult that later coerced her into marrying the cult leader. He was blind, riddled with physical health issues, and 37 years her senior. Ari did not fit any of the 'normal' risk factors for joining a cult. She was just looking for a job. Her parents did everything right to keep contact with her. Still, this happened.

As the Victorian Government undertakes an inquiry into cults and fringe groups, stories like this matter. Not all cults are religious. Not all cult recruits fit the same profile.

Listen well. THIS is the harm we have to stop

The Pipelines - Under the hands of Gods General to exposing the New Apostolic Reformation

Wed, 22 Jan 2025 00:21:13 -0400

This episode lands at a crucial point of religiopolitical history, as we talk about all things New Apostolic Reformation. Academic Jon Sawyer joins me as we talk about some juicy, heavy hitting topics - conspiratorial demonology, weaponisation of testimony culture, self-invisible LGBT Christians, sexual orientation and gender identity change efforts, load language inside Evangelicalism, white supremacy and indoctrination techniques used in Christian Nationalism. I mean...that about covers whats wrong in the world, doesn't it?

You really should look at the rest of Jon's work at https://www.jonsawyer.org/ and of course his contribution to Dr Lucas Wilsons, book "Shame Sex Attraction." (Find it here https://amzn.asia/d/5Et3wfT)

Its a vital time in history to be informed, especially if you are in a Westernised nation where the backlash against progress, and the decrying of "Wokeism" (ie. Empathy and respect for others) threatens a Christian Nationalist uprising masked as resurging religiopolitial conservatism. This episode, Blake Chastains episode (and book), and Lukes episode (and book) need to be top of your to-listen lists. And I'm not often demanding like that.

The Pipelines - Closetted to Out, Proud Academic Researcher

Thu, 19 Dec 2024 01:04:53 -0400

When Dr Luke Wilson reached out to me with a copy of his book, I was struck by the most obvious thing in the world - I'm the ex-wife of a gay conversion therapy survivor but I've never had someone on the podcast who could actually talk in depth about that very thing. I guess it was too close to home. But its time. We need to move from representation to meaningful change, and that means understanding on a deep and nuanced level that sexual orientation and gender identity change efforts aren't always what you think they are.

This episode hits on some big topics. Mental health, sexuality, genocide. Look after yourself as you listen. And remember you can call helplines if you need. In Australia, Lifeline is 13 11 14 and Qlife is 1800 184 527. In America, you can call 988. This is important stuff for all of us. But if its you, its REALLY important. There are safe hands to catch you as you recover.

The long-ass URL for Dr Luke's book, Shame-Sex Attraction is as follows: https://www.amazon.com.au/Shame-Sex-Attraction-Survivors-Stories-Conversion-ebook/dp/B0D1S6SHC8/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.68eQVaWIgXB4gJREAz4RVPbwpkkCcVmdfJlm2WsT94Mnu2tfgUqzMhIVzDdME3t13Eth7h1oBh8slz8hQdk24wKq0TW4WLFIA3DIhDNVaV4.FxuRjpQ7Xp9MBxN-GqDYKhC_ZWqJX3TOy0nUcAmUzl4&dib_tag=se&keywords=shame-sex+attraction&qid=1733923623&sr=8-1 Luke's social media handles are as follows. Instagram: @lukeslamdunkwilson Threads: @lukeslamdunkwilson Bluesky: @lukeslamdunkwilson.bsky.social Twitter/X: @wilson_fw LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96

The Pipelines - "Jane Kennedy Must Save the World" to "She Doesn't Actually"

Mon, 02 Dec 2024 19:31:48 -0400

In this episode of "The Pipelines" series, we meet Jane Kennedy. While she is now a religious trauma therapist and co-founder of the Religious Trauma Collective in Australia (which compiles resources and religious trauma-informed therapists for those of us who are recovering), she was once a youth leader and church planter.

In this episode, Jane and I talk about some of the big themes that have emerged in her walk into and out of church, and the things that pop up in therapy a lot: from white saviourism, to dissociation, body awareness, "the father heart of God" and other recruitment tactics. Jane's calm presence and hard-won wisdom makes this episode a lot more relaxing than it could be!

Find her at: on Substack at https://jane748.substack.com

and on Instagram at @janekennedycounselling

Find me at: clareheathmcivor.substack.com and on instagram at @unchurchablepod or @clare_heathmcivor

Blake Chastain - Christian Nationalism, the wild right-wing lurch and how to fight back

Mon, 11 Nov 2024 03:51:44 -0400

In an episode that was recorded two days after the Trump victory, and less than 200 days from the next Australian Federal Election, this episode could not be more important or timely. In it, I chat to Blake Chastain, who launched the Exvangelical Podcast back in 2016 as he talks about his new book "Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement That's Fighting Back."

We have long known that, where America goes religiously and politically, the western world tends to follow. In line with this, strains of Christian Nationalism, even white Christian nationalism, and other forms of fringe and extreme right-wing politics has spiked both here and overseas.

Its one to pay attention to. Make sure you give it a listen. And if you're in Australia in the political scene, make sure you take the warnings and the advice seriously.

www.blakechastain.com

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/747796/exvangelical-and-beyond-by-blake-chastain/

Instagram @brchastian_

William Egginton - Borges, Kant, Heisenberg and the meaning of self and the universe

Mon, 04 Nov 2024 01:52:22 -0400

You know I like to get existential. This time last year, I sat down with author and academic, William/Bill Egginton to talk about his book, "The Rigor of Angels." I'd been contacted by his publicist and was intrigued about the book and what it might offer exvangelicals who are reinventing themselves and might not know anything about poetry, philosophy, and quantum mechanics, much less the meaning of the Universe. It was too good a conversation to let sit in the archives after my year of hiatus. Since our chat, his book has won some awards including New York Times and New Yorker book of the year. You'll love it. And I hope you love this chat.

Find out more here https://www.williamegginton.com/ or here https://www.amazon.com.au/Rigor-Angels-Heisenberg-Ultimate-Reality/dp/0593316304

The Pipelines! From PK to Forest Witch (or something like that anyway) with Jess Manusama

Thu, 24 Oct 2024 23:11:14 -0300

Its quite a journey to go from eldest pastors kid, with full worship leader, Sunday school teacher, 'dating revelation' adherent and homeschool survivor to forest walking animistic spiritualist who runs womens circles. But that's Jess Manusama. She's a breath of fresh air. She runs the insta account @the.connectedself and the web page www.theconnectedself.com.au

If you're one of those people who lost touch with themself, their sense of embodiment, the right to own your story and feel it, give her a follow. If you want to work with her in womens circles, deconstructors circles, or one to one mentoring, head over to her socials or website.

Jess is such a soothing and non-judgemental presence, with a sense of humour but an ability to create and hold space where we connect with the medicine within. All outside of dogma. Because the last thing we need as we deconstruct is more of that.

The Pipelines! Part One: Christian professor to Asian American Apostate With R. Scott Okamoto

Tue, 15 Oct 2024 07:40:18 -0300

Unchurchable is back from a long hiatus, and kicking off "The Pipelines" series is the incredible R. Scott Okamoto. Scott was a teacher at a Christian college when his deconstruction started. Rather than solidifying a waning faith, Scott got the same Sunday School answers to life's big questions. Join us as we talk about Zionism, white supremacy, the chinks in the armour of Biblical literacy, and finally, his journey into authorhood and podcaster-ness.

Find Scott hosting the "Horny Chapel" and "Chapel Probation" podcasts, as well as his instagram (@rsokamoto) and Twittere (@rsokamoto) for more good stuff!

Teaser: Unchurchable is coming back!

Sun, 06 Oct 2024 23:24:33 -0300

Hey all! Yes, I know I disappeared. But I'm back, and so is unchurchable. If you've got ten minutes, have a listen to this teaser and, if you feel like it, slide into my DM's on twitter (@clare_mcivor) or on Instagram @unchurchablepod or @clare_heathmcivor) to let me know your thoughts.

This season is going to get nerdy! Go deeper into themes rather than focusing solely on survival stories, and talk about the pipelines. "The pipelines?", you say... "What do you mean by that?" Have a listen and find out

Ronna Derrick -What if we let women tell their own stories?

Tue, 14 Nov 2023 21:41:22 -0400

In this months episode, the lovely, courageous, intelligent Ronna Detrick joins me to talk about her newly-released book "Rewriting Eve."

It started from a simple place: in seminary, when the guys translated a passage of scripture, it came out vastly different to how the women's translations came out. The subjects and verbs were correct. But the nuance, the subtext, the angle - all vastly different.

And so Ronna set about rewriting Eve (and other Biblical women). The result is powerful insight into what happens when we let women tell their own stories. I'll admit this one hit heavy for me. After all, I am a woman who is only just learning to write her own story. I suspect many Exvangelical women may feel the same. We've been called crazy, headstrong, unstable, divisive, emotional, Jezebelic and all sorts. But maybe that was patriarchy writing our stories for us.

Find out more about Ronna on Insta, FB or here https://ronnadetrick.com

And enjoy the episode

Cynane Shay - A Crash Course in Conspiracy Theories and Totalitarianism

Tue, 29 Aug 2023 07:13:14 -0300

This is a "Listen hard" kind of episode. What do conspiracy theories, anti-semitic handbooks, lizard people, space lasers, Qanon, 5G towers and cults have in common? It's mindboggling how the checkered history of Evangelicalism is imbued with anti-semitism and white supremacy. I'm not sure why I'm surprised, when evangelicalism itself is a very whitewashed sort of reality. This episode talks about how totalitarianism, conspiracy theories and cults are built on a very similar, very toxic sort of foundation.

Find Cynane on Instagram - @taking.off.the.tinfoil.hat - or on the interwebs where you can find her booklist - www.takingoffthetinfoilhat.com

Troy Waller and Brian McDowell - Teenage Fundamentalists Learn to Call Bullshit

Wed, 02 Aug 2023 07:01:29 -0300

In this episode, the voices from the "I was a teenage fundamentalist" podcast join me to talk about the things they've learned along the way as exvangelicals, as people, as podcast hosts and community builders...and as two guys who had to learn to call bullshit sometimes. Troy Waller and Brian McDowell take an irreverent walk through their lives and talk about the commonalities we all seem to share when it comes to our individual journeys post-church.

"I was a teenage fundamentalist" is an Australian-based deconstruction podcast and community that is making waves, and its a treat to have another couple of Aussie accents in my own corner of the interwebs. If you want to listen or subscribe to their pod, its here https://open.spotify.com/show/5tbYeCgmIuYwZBiZ9yGKbw?si=31d555756c5d491f and my episode is here https://open.spotify.com/episode/24L6bYEQEtQ0yQiF1FeLwq?si=db432056f890453e

Brent Hodgson - Australian Political Dumpster Fires and the Right Wing March to the Fringe

Wed, 19 Apr 2023 07:32:26 -0300

Planetshakers, politics, porn scandals, branch stacking, coercive control, puppy dogs and exvangelical life - this episode has it all. Brent Hodgson is a political commentator, campaign data guy and marketing guru who provides immense insight into the trends and tendencies in the Australian political scene. It just also happens that is ex-Planet-shakers and watched from the pews as the Australian megachurch faced down a scandal for the history books. In this episode, Brent shares his insights into the potential demise of the Australian Liberal Party following right-wing infiltration (thanks dominionists and faltering micro parties). If you're an Aussie and you're lost in the wind as to what is going on here, or if you're from overseas and wondering what the political situation is over here - settle in with a cuppa. This episode has all the tea

Emma Ocean - Post-church philosophy, escaping the panopticon and duvet dilemmas

Thu, 23 Mar 2023 20:08:33 -0300

It was hard to know what to call this one. Emma Ocean is, pun intended, an ocean of wisdom based on the lived experience of escaping toxic religion and the qualified experience of a psychologist with a bit of mysticism, cosmetology, philosophy and shadow-working brilliance thrown in. It was a conversation full of light-bulb moments for me as we talked about the healing journey, the scintilla or spark of that universal light in all of us, and some gentle wisdom for people from all spaces in deconstruction as we wade through the work of healing and finding ourselves. Oh, and there are Julia Roberts references in here too.

Angela Herrington - Grief, deconstruction and this quirky sort of elevator thing

Mon, 06 Mar 2023 03:19:07 -0400

Angela Herrington is a deconstruction coach. What exactly is that? She's not going to tell you, because every deconstruction journey is different. But one thing is for sure, we all need someone in our corner who will hold space for us, refuse to embody any sort of control or coerciveness, and who can help us understand that deconstruction is as much about grief and loss as it is about anything else. Join us as we talk about all the things, and find Angela on the interwebs at www.angelajherrington.com

Andrew Lang - How to not skim over the depths of your own life and other misc. wisdom

Thu, 07 Jul 2022 01:09:18 -0300

This session lead off with me forgetting to cancel the podcast, dropping the kids off at school late, and turning up to do an interview unprepared, unshowered, and without a stitch of makeup. For reference, Kit Kennedy is glam af and never unprepared. But Andrew lead off with "if it aint messy it aint worth it," and we were friends straight away. Actually, what I felt from my conversation with Andrew was safety...and thats what he offers people who are dipping their toes into the uncertain waters of deconstruction, or who are trying to hold onto faith in a way that feels safe. Its a great sesh. Enjoy

Becki Beasley - Rage humor, boundaries, and being whoever the hell you want to be

Fri, 25 Mar 2022 03:17:03 -0300

In the first episode of unchurchable for 2022, I chat with Becki from "Also Your Daughters" on Instagram. Her's is a brand of deconstruction that I so badly needed to witness: a woman calling things what they are and doing it with humor. It's a strange muscle to have to learn to flex when you've been told that emotions like anger, assertiveness or blunt honesty are not feminine or acceptable. Guess what! They are both! In this chat, we talk about boundaries, rage humour, feminism, and life in general - and I confess I laughed entirely too much in this episode because I was perhaps a bit excited to be back, and perhaps a bit nervous to be in the interviewers chair after so long out of it! This conversation is as much about finding your resolve and your supportive community as it is finding your voice and your right to exist in the unique space you want to, rather than the role you were cast in but never wanted. Enjoy!

Rev. Dr Beverley Dale - Sex positive Christianity

Sun, 10 Oct 2021 22:27:26 -0300

A big part of deconstruction is re-looking at anti-feminist theology, purity culture and the way these impacted attitudes to women, sexuality, sensuality and pleasure. Now look, I'll be straight up and say I'm only just learning to be comfortable talking about it and I still feel a bit heretical thinking that maybe its okay to be sex-positive and still call myself a sorta-kinda-okay-Jesus post-Christian something something. To this end, this episode has been positively medicinal for me, as Reverend Doctor Beverley Dale takes us inside the Bible and shows us that the Bible has been shown to us in a way that sanitises it, but pleasure, sexuality and sensuality are there in black (and red) and white. Certainly not contraband like so many of us have been taught.

Meg Cowan - Recovering from purity culture and finding sexual freedom

Wed, 22 Sep 2021 01:35:28 -0300

The wonderful Meg Cowan has been on my list of interviewees for a while - a fellow Southern Hemisphere girl from across the ditch in New Zealand. Her work as a sex and intimacy coach has seen Meg in the long grass of helping purity culture survivors reclaim and heal their relationship with their bodies. This conversation was one we had a couple of goes at, and I promise you its worth a listen. It goes without saying that this episode carries a content warning. But don't all the good tings in life. Enjoy

Steven Denler - But what is sin, really?

Tue, 03 Aug 2021 04:57:54 -0300

I'm more than happy to admit it: I'll happily talk about a lot of things in the deconstruction space, but sin hasn't been one of them. Its been too big of a concept - too scary even. It's also a confusing one when you delve into it. If God is love, why are we all "born with a sin nature" that means we get dropped into a lake of fire for eternity unless we belief the right thing, say the magic words and never do wrong. Bit of a high bar wouldn't you say? Bit unloving maybe? Steven Denler, the man behind TAP Theology has been doing some serious work on this and I'm so glad he took a moment to stop by the pod and talk about it. I can tell you now: the sin means something completely different to me now. And somehow, God is kinder too. I'm down with that. Get ready for the most philosophically heavy chat I've had in a while. Enjoy!

Jordan White - Deconstructing towards social justice (and holding on to your hobbies while you do it)

Mon, 26 Jul 2021 01:53:35 -0300

This is one of those fortuitous internet meetings where you go "Hey! This person is interesting! I'm gunna interview them." Jordan White and I began talking on instagram about parenting post deconstruction when I realised this guy had managed to do something I had failed miserably at: he held on to music when he left church. To this day, a long time after leaving church, I find it too emotionally fraught to sit down at the piano and do what used to come so easily. I used to play, sing, compose and generally move the emotion that would otherwise stagnate and ulcerate. So I wanted to talk - how do you hold onto something that had been completely tied up with something you no longer identify with. As it turned out, the conversation spanned a whole lot more than this. I know you'll enjoy it.

Tia Levings - Self-Empowerment after Religious Trauma and Domestic Abuse

Mon, 05 Jul 2021 00:32:48 -0300

She married "the one God sent." Like so many of us, she did so without knowing fully what she was getting into. When the relationship became abusive, she sought help inside the church but what she found was advice tantamount to entrapping her in what she calls "church sanctioned domestic abuse. Sadly, Tia Levings story is unlikely to be the only one of its kind, but unlike so many others, Tia found the courage to get herself and her five kids out of that situation. Years on, she is thriving - in love, in life, and in parenthood beyond religious trauma and domestic abuse. Its a story of hope and Tia's gentle wisdom covers could indeed be life-saving. There is life after, and it is so worth pursuing.

Angry Church Kid - Everything is a Dick Joke

Mon, 14 Jun 2021 01:11:01 -0300

Now, I'm sure that's not a title you expected to read on a podcast for people who are navigating life post-church and deconstructing their faith. But can I point something out? Deconstruction is hard work. And it's not even like you get to choose whether or not to deconstruct. It seems to choose you! So finding the humour in the journey is vital to maintaining your place on the happy wagon while you also deal with grief, existential questions and all the overthinking that comes with deconstructing faith or making your way towards something like a new lens through which to view life, the universe and other things.

A friend of mine once told me that "the humour is part of the healing." And I'm 100% there with her on that. When I found Angry Church Kid on the gram, I loved her humour. Now that I've interviewed her, I love her fearlessness, her irreverence and her understanding of what it is to deconstruct out of church but not land quite at atheism. Enjoy this sweary, dick-jokey session!

Marc-Henri Sandoz Paradella - Dethroning Toxic Jesus and Finding Spiritual Healing

Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:33:07 -0300

In Sunday school, kids learn about the golden calf - the moment the Hebrews banded behind Moses' brother Aaron and made a god of their own to worship while their leader was up on the mountain. It was the perhaps the first time in recorded history, but certainly not the last time that we would make a god in our own image. Today, in Evangelical churches across the world, we cherry pick and reinterpret scripture to make Jesus fit our needs. These incarnations, according to Marc-Henri Sandoz Paradella, are the Toxic Jesus's we need to remove from our lives if we are going to move from "holy shit" to spiritual healing. I loved this interview and the humble wisdom of the man who wrote the book. Enjoy!

ALPHAMAMA - The Journey to Authentic Spirituality and Personal Agency

Wed, 07 Apr 2021 23:01:38 -0300

What do you do when you move away from a form of spirituality that came with a prepackaged set of rules, regulations and existential dread? For many if not most, you feel a little lost at sea. Anchorless. So how do you find purpose and the freedom to explore spirituality within healthy boundaries that don't trample on who you are as a person? I caught up with the musical, the magical, the free-spirited musician / boss lady that is Alphamama to talk about her journey into being, well, Alphamama.

Jess Hugenberg - Welcome to the Process

Mon, 08 Mar 2021 01:06:35 -0400

In this session, Jess Hugenberg and I talk about two topics that could not be more important as we walk through recovery from all the things that 2020 brought us: spiritual bypassing, spiritual integrity, and the importance of churches being trauma informed. It's important for a number of reasons. 2020 saw many things revealed; political upheaval, church abuse scandals, continued scandals in Hollywood as a result of the Me Too movement, the pandemic which saw many of us face escalations in our personal lives or our mental health. In line with this, it is not only unhelpful but it should be unacceptable for churches to sweep such things under the rug with thought-terminating cliches like "just forgive" or "have faith in God and don't be bitter." We need to be trauma informed. And we need people like Jess who can walk us through how to do better. Enjoy this session!

Nia and Katie Chairamonte - Love in the face of all the things

Sun, 20 Dec 2020 23:45:40 -0400

I've always been of the belief that the best relationships were the ones where partners are able to see and celebrate the evolution that occurs over the lifetime of their spouse. It takes grace, commitment, self-awareness, consideration, selflessness and no one embodies this better than Nia and Katie. Their's is a relationship that started as high school sweethearts, and travelled through churchianity, deconstruction, and one partner coming out as transgender. This is a story that will inspire you to realise that while life isn't always simple, love causes us to go to great heights and great depths for the ones we love. And that is brilliant and beautiful.

Brit Herbert - Globe Trotting, Spiritual Colonialism, and the Do Better Church Movement

Wed, 02 Dec 2020 05:28:10 -0400

Brit Herbert's journey with Christianity started in a rather unique manner, and as a youngster she was quickly plunged into a world of missions work in countries as far flung from Louisiana USA as Russia. It's a powerful story of recognising the good in the bad and the bad in the good, of grappling with our role in spiritual colonialism, deconstructing, finding your feet, and being part of birthing the "Do Better Church" movement. It's a fascinating ride through the thrills and damage of Evangelical egocentricity in an episode that could otherwise be called "The adventures of Brit and Kit."

Dr Anica - Race Positive Approaches to Hard Conversations, and PTSD in the real world (Double Episode)

Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:08:28 -0400

Sometimes a guest comes along with such an impressive CV that you really have to get her to cover off on two different topics. Dr Anica is that lady. A proud woman of colour, daughter of immigrants, clinical psychologist and general badass, she is the pioneer behind the "Race Positive" program which aims to bring a strengths-based approach to a topic often loaded with deficit language. In life post BLM, its important to keep talking about systemic racism until we can dismantle it! But the reason I found her was another topic altogether, when a listener asked me how I handle my PTSD. It wasn't something I've talked about much, but perhaps I should. Because normalising trauma responses and their treatment matters. And so do you! Thanks for tuning in.

Jonathan Merritt - The ongoing evolution of faith and church

Mon, 02 Nov 2020 04:12:00 -0400

I've long watched on as Jonathan Merritt has penned noteworthy books, and written a swath of articles that have helped me understand and grapple with the big issues in Christianity as I deconstructed from conservative faith to something markedly more progressive and affirming. Yet as I lost faith in the institution we call "church", his work has challenged me that it may yet have something to offer society. It is this idea, along with commentary on the incredibly vast array of historical moments 2020 has served up, that we explore on this episode of unchurchable. Enjoy!

Sanny - Churching, Dechurching, and handing the power back to the marginalised

Sat, 10 Oct 2020 00:07:52 -0300

I met Sanny on the great connector called Instagram. I instantly knew we had a lot in common, but also that hers was a perspective on the phenomenon of deconstruction that would be quite different to mine as well. And thus, I knew I wanted to interview her. You see, deconstruction can lead us to question our faith and interaction with church, but it is as individual as we are. The moment we think there is one way to deconstruct, we miss the nuanced and complex ways in which it affects each of us. Sanny brings wit, wisdom, strength and intelligence to this conversation and I just loved hearing what she had to say. Enjoy!

Abby Norman - Parenting Post Deconstruction

Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:08:50 -0300

Growing up inside evangelicalism, its likely you knew what "Train up a child in the way he should go" meant. It was clear how parenting should be done. We already knew all the answers - God's way or the highway. Enter deconstruction, and all the things once taken for granted about how we would raise our kids went out the window. Todays guest is a pastor, author and a mother who has been through deconstruction so she knows this territory. Abby Norman sheds some light on how to parent, and how to "person" post deconstruction.

Tim Fall - Running for Judge

Wed, 23 Sep 2020 01:47:52 -0300

When Tim Fall mentioned that he had some availability for podcast interviews, I was pretty darn quick to put my hand up and say "pick me!" His is a fair, reasonable voice in an often polarised and adversarial world. It stands to reason, then that the man is a judge! What ensued was a conversation about the validity of Judea-Christian claims on ethics, equality in church, and how a Christian should respond when those above us don't act in ways that are ethical or befitting of a Christian. Tune in! Its one you won't want to miss.

Phil Drysdale - Deconstructing Faith and Surviving It

Mon, 17 Aug 2020 05:25:20 -0300

When Phil Drysdale first started speaking at churches on the topic of deconstruction, it didn't take him long to realise it was happening in epidemic proportions. Years on, he has devoted his professional life to supporting the people who started pulling at the thread of doctrine and institutional Christianity and ended up holding a ball of twine but finding themselves with nothing to stand on. So what is deconstruction, what does the research say about it, and how do you survive it? Its all on todays session (along with some interesting stuff on the fear of hell!)

Cait West: faith, feminism and leaving patriarchy

Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:05:18 -0300

Cait West grew up inside a form of Christian patriarchy that many wouldn't have even heard of - the stay-at-home-daughter movement. This form of conservative Christianity protected male headship to the point where courtships were quite strict and women were meant to serve men in the home. Her deconstruction into a more empowered version of faith and femininity involved leaving behind that movement. Now she is a University graduate, a writer taking on big topics, and has a job in publishing - proof that self-empowerment is possible even when the stakes are high.

Zach Cave: Purity Culture, Klinefelter Syndrome and Trauma Recovery

Mon, 03 Aug 2020 04:33:28 -0300

Trauma recovery is difficult enough when it is a single issue. But when you layer complex trauma with purity culture, religious pressure, murder, suicide, Klinefelter syndrome (also known as being Intersex), you have a potential recipe for disaster. Zach Cave is now a therapist, and has waded his way through difficult waters. His wisdom and discoveries on the journey to recovery make for a surprisingly calming and hopeful podcast episode. I hope you enjoy it.

Keith Kristich: Contemplative spirituality, finding silence and connecting with God within

Tue, 28 Jul 2020 22:23:40 -0300

Many of us have grown up in a Christian tradition with many good things about it: activities, study groups, upbeat worship, active prayer traditions are more. But the downside to this is that, when we deconstruct our faith or find ourselves unable to engage with church, there can be a feeling of distance from God. Enter contemplative spirituality. Not only is it the antithesis of activities-based faith, but it includes simple ways we can set up our days to pour from a full emotional and spiritual cup rather than an empty or exhausted one.

Blair Rabun - Talk Purity To Me

Tue, 21 Jul 2020 22:16:38 -0300

Contains adult content:

Arguably, one of the most memorable movements of the 1990's or 2000's was the purity movement. Marked by songs like DC Talk's "I Don't Want It" and Rebecca St. James' "Wait for me," and of course Joshua Harris's book (now pulled from circulation) "I kissed dating goodbye." But how did this movement contribute to body shame and the ongoing experience of sexual desire for those who grew up in it? That is a story still unfolding, and the topic of today's episode.

Erica Smith - Navigating sex and reclaiming sexuality post purity culture

Mon, 13 Jul 2020 05:29:47 -0300

When I read the term "Purity Culture Dropout" on Erica Smith's instagram page - I knew I had to talk to her, because frankly, this isn't a topic I'm comfortable with. And it should be. I'm in my thirties now! Purity culture was a significant movement during my formative years as it was for people all over the world. That, combined with all too common "abstinence only" sex education left a lot of people with gaps. Gaps in knowledge about their bodies, about consent, about what is and isn't "normal" and how to navigate their way through the psychological gifts that keep on giving - those of shame related to sex and sexuality. Erica Smith is fabulous, and knowledgeable, and its an important session today.

RATED M Ya'll!

Kevin Garcia Bad Theology Kills

Sun, 28 Jun 2020 22:00:22 -0300

A chat with Kevin Garcia is always insightful, fun, challenging (in a good way) and a bit mind-bending. This session is no different. The original intent was to have Kevin stop by and talk about their new book "Bad Theology Kills" - and perhaps there is no better time in history to have this book-baby out there in the world. But in true Kevin style, we couldn't help but extend the conversion far beyond that - deconstruction, spellcraft, sex, sexuality, civil rights revolutions and the power of red lipstick. Curious? Give it a listen.

Mike Phillips: Religious Trauma Recovery and Reclaiming Your Core Self

Wed, 10 Jun 2020 00:58:15 -0300

No episode of this podcast has had as wide-reaching topic material within it as this one. We talk about cults, toxic groups, the Black Lives Matter movement, dominions, toxic evangelicalism, sexuality, trauma recovery, and the reclaiming of your core identity and autonomy after religious trauma. Obviously, there are a few trigger warnings built into this episode, but its truly an unmissable one as so much of it pertains to the big issues of 2020! Be safe. Be well. Be empowered to reclaim your spirituality and self-expression.

Tonya Nash - Autism, faith and inclusion

Wed, 06 May 2020 21:45:04 -0300

Tonya Nash, the pioneer behind the Autism Faith Network, takes us on an insightful journey through the challenges faced by families and churches when it comes to making church a beautiful experience for families and carers of people with autism or other disabilities. She offers up some simple guidance that can so beautifully enrich the experience of these amazing people, and help us treat them with the dignity and inclusion they deserve.

Lance Pyburn - Resilience and authenticity on lockdown

Wed, 29 Apr 2020 00:57:06 -0300

As large portions of the population sit on lockdown, awaiting the decline of coronavirus, many of us sit alone with our thoughts, dreams, relationships and lives. It might be a time for asking "Is the living I'm living congruent with who I am on the inside?" and indeed for reflecting on whether or not our jobs, economies, or personal lives can bounce back. Lance Pyburn from Brave New Love joins me this week to talk about resilience, authenticity and finding our value on the inside.

Carrie Maya - Reclaiming Spirituality and Releasing the Fear of Hell

Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:45:39 -0300

Leaving a church is a big deal. Leaving a religion & choosing to explore spirituality on your own terms is an even bigger one. Carrie Maya has carved out an empowered spiritual practice that aligns with her values rather than dictating them. She is wise & intuitive, and honest about the times when life it isn't all rosy. What she has to say about working with the shadows in our lives, the archetype of Christ & releasing the fear of hell is a breath of fresh air.

The Brave Network - Making Church safe for LGBTQIA+ people of faith

Tue, 14 Apr 2020 00:56:15 -0300

Church should be the safest place in the world. It should be a place of safety and refuge for all who want to follow Jesus. Yet the data paints a bleak picture for LGBTQIA+ (especially questioning) people of faith. Nathan Despott and the Brave Network have been working to change this. In this weeks episode, Nathan spoke to me about Queer theology, the harm done when a church is "welcoming but not affirming", and what we need to do to make church a safe place for all.

CW: suicide

D-D-Divorce: Reclaiming Faith When "Til Death Do Us Part" Didn't Work Out

Mon, 06 Apr 2020 04:20:57 -0300

For this weeks pod, I interviewed the fabulous Gretchen Baskerville, author of "the Life Saving Divorce." Gretchen has been working with people in the divorce recovery space for the past 20 years. Tune in for a well-needed discussion on breaking down the unhelpful narratives around divorce, empowering people to maintain their right to and engagement with faith and church post relationship breakdown, and realising that bringing hope is everyone's ministry.

Revelation, the Great Tribulation and COVID19

Mon, 30 Mar 2020 02:33:26 -0300

If you grew up Evangelical in the 1990's or 2000's, then the news right now might be triggering flashbacks of End-Times Doctrine: the four horses of the apocalypse, famine, pestilence, war, the anti-Christ, the Great Tribulation and the Rapture. I caught up with Shari Smith, faith and coffee blogger and Christian feminist, to talk about whether the book of Revelation is prophetic or reflective, fact or fiction, and how to deal with the anxiety that comes with traumatic theology.