Science for Policy

Eric Guilyardi on scientists engaging in public advocacy

Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:26:13 +0100

Should scientists get involved in public campaigning, lobbying or advocating for causes close to their heart — or close to their research? If so, what are the responsibilities of scientists and their employing institutions — and what are the potential pitfalls?

In this episode, Toby Wardman takes a deep dive into these questions with Professor Eric Guilyardi, a member of the ethics committee of the French national centre for scientific research, and the co-author of its opinion on public advocacy by scientists.

Alessandro Allegra on the role of secretariats in science advice

Mon, 04 Nov 2024 10:50:58 +0100

We often shine the spotlight on the advisors whose high-profile work comes at the end of the science advice process, and on the academics whose research it's based on. But there is a third important actor in this process, often working informally, sometimes moving in the shadows – the faceless bureaucrat or administrator. Alessandro Allegra dedicated his PhD studies to analysing the role of science advice secretariats, what they do, and how formal that role should be. And he spills the beans to Toby Wardman in this episode.

Andrea Heilrath and Clara Roca-Sastre on arts in science advice

Mon, 21 Oct 2024 06:00:00 +0200

People are forever saying that science advice should not just be about the natural sciences, but also about the social sciences, humanities and arts. And yet lumping those three categories together conceals a host of interesting complications. The contribution of the social sciences and humanities to policymaking is relatively easy to conceptualise, even if sometimes challenging in execution.

But the arts? How can artists contribute to research, add to scientific evidence, or have an impact on scientific advice to policy? Or is the role of art limited to public engagement?

In this episode, two working physicists who are also artists, Clara Roca-Sastre and Andrea Heilrath, explore this topic in dialogue with Toby Wardman, our own science communicator who is also an artist. Enjoy!

Karen Yeung on evidence use in AI policymaking

Mon, 07 Oct 2024 16:41:06 +0200

Karen Yeung is an interdisciplinary professor at the University of Birmingham, specialising in AI. In this episode, she discusses with Toby Wardman the uses of AI in evidence-based policymaking, and the uses of evidence in AI policymaking.

Mikel Landabaso on science and innovation for development policy

Mon, 09 Sep 2024 05:53:00 +0200

Mikel Landabaso, Director for Fair and Sustainable Economy in the European Commission’s Joint Research Centre, knows a fair few things about the role of science and technology innovation in informing regional development policy and promoting regeneration. In this episode, he talks to Toby Wardman about how it works, how his advice has been taken, and the strategies to adopt when policymakers or stakeholders aren't able to appreciate it on its own terms.

Maggie Dugan on bringing people together

Mon, 26 Aug 2024 06:30:00 +0200

How do you bring scientists and policymakers together to generate creative solutions to thorny problems? How can you engineer a conversation on controversial issues that builds trust between allies rather than alienating opponents? And what's the secret to overcoming cynicism about either the process or the outcome? With a background in history, business and journalism, Maggie Dugan has wisdom to share on all these questions and more!

Linda Lammensalo on writing a handbook for Finnish researchers

Mon, 12 Aug 2024 06:28:00 +0200

The Finnish Academy of Science and Letters has been active in the science-for-policy space in Finland for decades, including in recent years playing a leading role in setting up an important science advice mechanism for the Finnish government. Now it has also published a comprehensive handbook for researchers, with advice and practical exercises to help guide them in their first steps in policy engagement.

In this episode, Linda Lammensalo talks to Toby Wardman about what's in the handbook and why.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Finnish academy handbook: https://acadsci.fi/en/publications/a-new-handbook-provides-tools-for-researchers-in-the-science-policy-interface/
Science Europe guidance: https://www.scienceeurope.org/our-resources/guidance-science-for-policy/

ChatGPT on science advice

Mon, 29 Jul 2024 06:48:00 +0200

What does our most advanced AI, trained on the sum total of all human knowledge, have to say about the challenges of the science-policy interface? And can it tell a good joke? (Hint: The answer to that one is no.)

Episode 100: Live from Helsinki

Mon, 15 Jul 2024 06:05:00 +0200

Welcome to our 100th episode! This one comes to you complete with a live audience at the University of Helsinki, kindly hosted by the SRI Congress 2024. Debating questions Warm-up debates: (1) We should get rid of daylight saving time. (2) How would a dog wear trousers? Hind legs only, or all four legs on the bottom half of its body? (3) In which order do you put on socks and shoes? Sock sock shoe shoe, or sock shoe sock shoe? Substantive debates: (1) Science advice organisations should welcome researchers who have connections to industry or campaign groups. (2) As a science advisor, I'm OK with my research being used by everyone in the policymaking process. (3) As a science advisor, it's OK to have private conversations with a policymaker. (4) As a science advisor, I should present only the evidence. Interpreting that evidence is the policymaker's job. (5) It's my duty as a scientist to lobby for changes in society, based on the evidence as I see it. (6) If a policymaker wants a simple answer from science, I should give them one. (7) When there isn't enough data for a robust evidence-based answer, I should give my best guess. (8) When scientists disagree on a controversial issue, I should present my own view on what the evidence says. (9) If the politicians make a decision which really goes against my advice, it's my duty to speak out publicly against it. (10) As a science advisor, I should try to present different stakeholder positions, such as those of affected communities. Resources mentioned in this episode

SRI Congress 2024: https://sricongress.org/home/about-sri2024/
The noble vibraslap, queen of percussion instruments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibraslap
Spotify playlist featuring the vibraslap: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3pXPF32AkTNcRfNswxnaWq?si=bdb62b8d74dd4151

Claudia Chwalisz on science and expertise in innovative forms of government

Mon, 01 Jul 2024 06:08:00 +0200

There are many different ways to make policies, and many different ways for science and evidence to impact on those policies. In western liberal democracies, we tend to focus on our specific, forgetting that across the world and across history our specific way of doing things is not the only way. Claudia Chwalisz, from the think-tank DemocracyNext, has spent a lot of time thinking about alternative ways to govern our societies, especially when it comes to dealing with challenges that are scientifically or morally complex. In this episode, she talks to Toby Wardman about how alternative decision-making processes could work, and whether they would strengthen or change the roles of science, evidence and expertise in deliberation. Resources mentioned in this episode

DemocracyNext: https://www.demnext.org/

Nicola Dotti on guidelines for science advice organisations

Mon, 17 Jun 2024 09:15:38 +0200

In recent months, there's been a small explosion of guidelines and handbooks on how to do science advice. In today's episode, Toby Wardman takes a deep dive into Science Europe's recent guidance for research-funding and research-performing organisations, in conversation with their author, Nicola Dotti.

Andrea Emilio Rizzoli and Manuel Kugler on AI in science and science advice

Mon, 03 Jun 2024 13:38:13 +0200

This is probably the last podcast in the world to get round to talking about how AI is changing the world -- but we wanted to wait until we had the right people in the room to talk specifically about AI in relation to science, policy, and science-for-policy. If you like this conversation with Professor Andrea Rizzoli and Manuel Kugler -- and you will like it! -- stay tuned in the coming months, because we've got more AI-themed episodes up our sleeves.

Caitlin Chin-Rothmann on misinformation, science and the media ecosystem

Mon, 20 May 2024 06:30:00 +0200

It's sometimes easy to forget that even the most well-designed science advice institution, and even the most persuasive advisor, are still operating as part of a broad ecosystem in which both policymakers and the general public are exposed to vast quantities of ostensibly factual information of varying quality, much of it mediated through algorithms. In this episode, Caitlin Chin-Rothmann from the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington DC talks us through this broader context and how science advisors can adapt to it.

Vanesa Weyrauch and Leandro Echt on why context matters

Mon, 06 May 2024 06:35:00 +0200

Why does evidence sometimes land and sometimes not? Why do some policies fail even though the evidence suggests they should succeed? And what can we do about it? Saying "it's all about the context" is easy, but what does this actually mean? And more importantly, how can we make that into a useful insight in advance, rather than just a post-hoc justification for things not working out?

Vanesa Weyrauch and Leandro Echt have looked into this question in some detail, and their organisation, Purpose & Ideas, created a framework to tackle exactly these questions. In this episode, they discuss with Toby Wardman of the SAM not just why context matters, but what that actually means and what we can do about it.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Context Matters framework: https://www.purposeandideas.org/post/context-matters-but-are-we-prepared-to-build-on-this

Michael Bang Petersen on integrating psychology into policymaking

Mon, 22 Apr 2024 06:45:00 +0200

Politicians don't really have a great understanding of the citizens they serve, according to Michael Bang Petersen. In place of evidence from decades of psychological research, they tend to substitute their own instincts and common sense, together with more or less apposite fragments of behavioural science and economics. Nowhere was this more evident than during the early days of the Covid-19 pandemic, when opportunities to build trust and communicate science were squandered. Tune in and settle down for an intriguing tour of how things ought to be done.

Dilek Fraisl on citizen science for policymaking

Mon, 08 Apr 2024 06:45:00 +0200

When countries set themselves ambitious targets such as the UN sustainable development goals, then realise they don't have the evidence sources they need to monitor progress towards those targets, how do they square the circle? In some cases, it's with so-called 'citizen science', in which non-professional scientists gather and evaluate data — often on a big scale — to fill the gaps. Dr Dilek Fraisl is an expert in using citizen science to address sustainability challenges. In conversation with Toby Wardman, she discusses both the value of using crowdsourced data, and the challenges that arise when presenting it to policymakers.

Lena Höglund-Isaksson, Behnam Zakeri and Zuelclady Araujo on modelling

Mon, 25 Mar 2024 06:45:00 +0100

How do scientific models inform policymakers? How can they keep countries honest in international climate negotiations? When is uncertainty not so much of a problem? And how much does it matter if policymakers don't instantly grasp the ins and outs of a model which takes six months for scientists to learn? Join the SAM's Toby Wardman on a deep dive into what happens when scientific models meet international politics.

Daniel Ospina and Judit Ungvári on science advice for climate negotiators

Mon, 11 Mar 2024 06:30:00 +0100

Climate change negotiators preparing for UN summits must sift through a truly intimidating quantity of scientific material to familiarise themselves with the latest evidence. That's why Future Earth, along with the Earth League and the World Climate Research Programme, has delivered its pithy 'Ten New Insights on Climate Change' every year since 2017.

But what is the process behind these reports? How are the insights chosen, by whom, and why? And what is it about this model of science advice that also made it attractive to the European Commission when it wanted to figure out which climate and biodiversity research to fund in the future? Daniel Ospina and Judit Ungvári talk to Toby Wardman of the SAM about the ins and outs of science advice at the highest level of global decision-making.

Resources mentioned in this episode

10 new climate insights: https://10insightsclimate.science/

Patricia Gruber on science advice in the US state department

Mon, 26 Feb 2024 06:30:00 +0100

Dr Patricia Gruber is the science and technology advisor to Antony Blinken, President Biden's secretary of state. In a wide-ranging conversation with Toby Wardman from the SAM, she discusses how she got her job, what it's like, and what she can and can't do. She also lays out the US's approach to international science diplomacy, including the wisdom (or folly) or withholding scientific collaboration as a diplomatic measure.

Marie Gaarder and Thomas Kelly on evidence for development policy

Mon, 12 Feb 2024 06:30:00 +0100

International development is a major political priority in many countries, with billion-dollar budgets. But, as recently as 2006, the influential Center for Global Development published a damning report entitled 'When will we ever learn?', essentially arguing that the entire policy area had been built on a foundation of guesswork and good intentions. In the two decades since then, a huge amount of work has been done to bring rigorous evidence to this complex and often values-laden political area. For the Science for Policy podcast, Marie Gaarder and Thomas Kelly from the International Initiative for Impact Evaluation cover all the bases: the evidence we have and the evidence we need, how it should be used, and what's still getting in the way. Resources mentioned in this episode

Report 'When will we ever learn?': https://www.cgdev.org/publication/when-will-we-ever-learn-improving-lives-through-impact-evaluation

Maja Fjaestad on the role of science in Sweden's Covid response

Mon, 29 Jan 2024 06:30:00 +0100

Dr Maja Fjaestad, an academic with an engineering background, had grand plans when she was appointed Swedish state secretary for health. Unfortunately, this was in 2019, and less than a year later her job was completely transformed by the Covid outbreak. In this wide-ranging interview with Toby Wardman, Dr Fjaestad talks about what it was like being in the job during Covid, how well the science-policy interface was functioning in Sweden at the time, and the links between Swedish Covid response, scientific evidence and public communication.

Panel discussion on science advice in a crisis

Mon, 15 Jan 2024 06:11:00 +0100

In this special episode of the podcast recorded at a live event in 2023, four experts discuss the role of science advice in emergency situations: what challenges do science advisors face, and what opportunities should they seize?

With Tina Comes, professor at Technical University Delft; Barbara Prainsack, professor at the University of Vienna and chair of the European Group on Ethics in Science and New Technologies; Maarja Kruusmaa, professor at Tallinn University and member of the Group of Chief Scientific Advisors to the European Commission; and Daniela di Bucci, geologist and advisor to the Italian government.

Bart van den Hurk and Jana Sillmann on storytelling

Tue, 02 Jan 2024 06:45:00 +0100

In a scientific field as complex and multifaceted as climate modelling, how do you communicate the realities of concrete impacts to stakeholders and policymakers? Two IPCC scientists, Bart van den Hurk and Jana Sillmann, are working on so-called 'storylines' techniques, which generate high-resolution, interdisciplinary stories to help decision-makers in all fields assess their own readiness for climate-related changes.

Resources mentioned in this episode

https://climatestorylines.eu/

Moniek Tromp on youth and diversity in science advice

Mon, 11 Dec 2023 06:45:00 +0100

How diverse are the people who work on scientific advice -- and why does this matter? Should we be involving more young people as experts, and are there any trade-offs in doing so? What impact might changes in academic culture more broadly have on the quality and availability of evidence for policy?

Professor Moniek Tromp, a founding member of the Young Academies Science Advice Structure and a member of the COARA coalition on improving research assessment, reflects on what's working well and why the rest is still so difficult.

Tome Sandevski and Michèle Knodt on informal science-policy fellowships

Mon, 13 Nov 2023 06:30:00 +0100

Beyond the world of institutional design and formalised competences that tend to be the focus of science-for-policy scholarship, there are many less structured interfaces between the worlds of research and policymaking.

One such well-established interface is the Mercator science-policy fellowship, run by three German universities and headed by Tome Sandevski. In this episode, Toby Wardman of the SAM talks to Tome and his colleague Michèle Knodt, who is currently taking part in the scheme.

Tim Marler & Sana Zakaria on gene editing and AI policy

Mon, 30 Oct 2023 06:30:00 +0100

Drawing on their broad portfolio of exciting, sci-fi-sounding research areas, Tim Marler and Sana Zakaria from RAND Corporation talk in depth about how the latest scientific evidence on AI and gene-editing can best be communicated to policymakers nationally and globally. What are the hot topics? What decisions do policymakers face right now? Where can different kinds of scientific evidence help to inform those decisions, and where are policymakers on their own?

Resources mentioned in this episode

RAND Corporation report on machine learning and gene editing: https://www.rand.org/randeurope/research/projects/ai-at-the-helm-of-a-species-evolution.html

Glenn Fernandez on municipal science advice in the Philippines

Mon, 16 Oct 2023 06:45:00 +0200

The Philippines is remarkably exposed to natural disasters, from earthquakes to typhoons to volcanic eruptions.

Dr Glenn Fernandez, a disaster risk management expert, started his science advice career as a masters student and has continued ever since, helping cities and rural municipalities to prepare for and respond to emergencies. In this episode, he shares his experiences and insights with Toby Wardman from the SAM.

Veera Mitzner on events as science-for-policy activities

Mon, 02 Oct 2023 06:34:00 +0200

Veera Mitzner is the organiser of the Sustainability Research and Innovation Congress, a major annual event which brings together thousands of researchers, stakeholders and, yes, policymakers. But how do events like this fit into the broader evidence-for-policy landscape?

Stella Ladi on science advice in Greece

Mon, 18 Sep 2023 06:46:00 +0200

Greece does not have a long tradition of institutionalised science advisory mechanisms, but after dealing relatively well with Covid, the situation is starting to change. Professor Stella Ladi, an expert on evidence-informed policymaking at home and internationally, talks to Toby Wardman about the past, present and future of science advice in Greece. Professor Ladi has been promoted since this conversation was recorded! Hence she is referred to as 'Dr Ladi' at the start of the episode.

Ottmar Edenhofer on giving climate advice in Europe

Mon, 04 Sep 2023 06:30:00 +0200

The EU climate law created a new institution, the European Scientific Advisory Board on Climate Change, which started work just this year and targets the European Commission, Parliament and Council. Its chair, Professor Ottmar Edenhofer, took time out of his busy schedule to share with us what it's like setting up a new science advice body and how happy he is with their first significant report.

Resources mentioned in this episode

https://climate-advisory-board.europa.eu/

Hugh Pope on experts in sortition-based democracies

Mon, 21 Aug 2023 06:45:00 +0200

Elections are not the only way to power democratic decision-making. A system of government by random selection of citizens, or 'sortition', has been around since at least ancient Athens and, as Hugh Pope explains, has never quite disappeared.

But if we adopt such a radically different way of making policy, what are the implications of science for policy? Do experts take on different roles, and how can citizen-politicians acquire the skills they need to make judgement calls on scientifically complex issues?

Resources mentioned in this episode

Maurice Pope, 'The Keys to Democracy: Sortition as a new model for citizen power'. http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100410200

Marc Sanjaume i Calvet on scientific expertise in conflict resolution

Mon, 07 Aug 2023 06:45:00 +0200

What do science advisors have to offer in conflict situations? Can evidence and expertise ever cut through political polarisation and contribute to finding new forms of compromise? What kinds of advisors do we need, and what kinds of advice? Should they be strictly neutral, or is plurality and openness more useful? Do politicians really want scientific evidence, and what if it puts pressure on their longstanding political positions? Our guest today, Marc Sanjaume i Calvet, is an expert on the Catalan-Spanish independence debate as well as democracy, federalism and secession more generally. The president of Catalonia appointed him as the coordinator of an expert group working towards a so-called 'clarity agreement' for the Catalan region.

Ole Øvretveit & Eystein Jansen on Ukraine, the Arctic and the climate crisis

Mon, 17 Jul 2023 06:45:00 +0200

Welcome to the Arctic, where science-for-policy and policy-for-science collide in increasingly complicated ways. You can't make climate-change policy anywhere in the world without scientific evidence we get from the Arctic — but at the same time, being able to get that evidence depends on a delicate balance of policies and geopolitical interests that have made collaborative research between Europe, North America and Russia possible since before the Cold War.

But then you might have heard that Russia has invaded Ukraine, and suddenly the whole institution is under threat. Norwegian experts Ole Øvretveit and Eystein Jansen explain what's going on, and what we might be able to do about it.

Eleni Zika on curiosity-driven research and its contribution to policy

Mon, 03 Jul 2023 06:30:00 +0200

Most of Europe's colossal Horizon research funding programme is laser-focused on strategic objectives set by policymakers. But one Horizon-funded institution, the European Research Council, breaks the mould: its grants are awarded on the basis of excellence alone, and as Dr Eleni Zika explains, they are proud to deliberately ignore questions such as the usefulness of science to policy or society. Why, then, has the ERC recently set up its own 'feedback to policy' unit, which would seem to go against its stated mission? Toby Wardman of SAPEA investigates.

Barbara Vis on heuristics

Mon, 19 Jun 2023 06:30:00 +0200

Politicians are humans, and humans do not always reason syllogistically from premises to conclusions. The problem is amplified when political decisions have to be made fast, under conditions of uncertainty, with either not enough information or far too much.

That's where heuristics come in -- and Professor Barbara Vis is here to help us understand when they are used, what their impacts can be, and how we should take that into account when delivering science advice.

Heather Rogers & Jelka Zaletel on implementation science

Mon, 05 Jun 2023 06:45:00 +0200

When Slovenia rolled out its national diabetes plan, they had the evidence, they had the funding, they had the centres, they had the doctors and nurses... but people didn't show up. Simply having the right information is not enough to build an effective policy. You can't just factor out the complexities — you need to factor them in. Heather Rogers and Jelka Zaletel tell us more about the intriguing topic of implementation science. Podcast community

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Salvatore Aricò on science advice at the United Nations

Mon, 22 May 2023 06:43:00 +0200

How might the future of science advice look at the global level? Will the establishment of a UN Group of Friends on Science for Action be the catalyst that elevates science advice to the highest levels of multilateral decision-making, and how will this complement the Secretary-General's renewed scientific advisory board? And what should the role of the international science community be?

In this episode, Dr Salvatore Aricò, chief executive of the International Science Council, shares his experience and his vision with Toby Wardman, drawing on practical examples to illustrate how such science advice mechanisms work in practice. We also discuss the challenges and opportunities for scientists and the ISC that can help translate science into action, policy-relevant advice.

Resources mentioned in this episode

International Science Council: https://council.science/
Join our listener community, meet other listeners and discuss science-for-policy topics! https://join.slack.com/t/scienceforpol-iju8175/shared_invite/zt-1q94fmb6r-oG3q8QKf8cxXnKMNCkR77A

Frans Brom on strategic science advice in the Netherlands

Mon, 08 May 2023 06:30:00 +0200

The Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy is the cherry on top of an intricate and diverse ecosystem that provides for the science and evidence needs of policymakers in the Netherlands. It has a unique mandate: to look beyond the daily cut and thrust of politics, to challenge both government and parliament to think about important strategic issues that stretch into the future. Oh, and it reports directly to the prime minister. Too good to be true? You might well think so. But here's its secretary, Frans Brom, to explain why you're wrong. Listener community

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Resources mentioned in this episode

Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy

Bárbara Willaarts and Thomas Schinko on transdisciplinary research for policy

Mon, 24 Apr 2023 06:32:00 +0200

In this episode, Bárbara Willaarts and Thomas Schinko from the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis explain why transdisciplinarity means more than just collaborating with other areas of science, and why co-creation means more than just working with policymakers to understand their needs... and why both are needed to give really good quality policy advice.

Please wear a mask

Mon, 10 Apr 2023 06:30:00 +0200

In this bonus episode shared from the limited-run podcast The Trust Race, Shane Bergin discusses public and political trust in science, using the advice on mask-wearing during the Covid-19 pandemic as an example.

To listen to other episodes from The Trust Race, visit https://open.spotify.com/show/6jQ59Bxy7vGRecSzinxuaj.

'The Trust Race' has received funding from the EU’s Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme under grant agreement No 870883. The information and opinions are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the European Commission.

John O’Connor on education policy evidence in Ireland

Mon, 27 Mar 2023 13:40:38 +0200

Education is an interesting case study for the science-policy interface. It combines a complex, multi-stakeholder ecosystem, a range of different academic approaches, and very high political salience. Maybe that's why John O'Connor, a senior policymaker in the Qualifications and Quality Assurance Authority of Ireland, made it the subject of his PhD. He's here to tell us what makes science advice effective in education — and what makes it fail. With a bonus whirlwind tour of the entire science-policy ecosystem in Ireland!

The Mystery 100th Guest Episode Wooo

Mon, 13 Mar 2023 05:42:00 +0100

Ninety-nine brave adventurers have gone before. Who shall have the privilege of being the one hundredth guest on the Science for Policy podcast?

And will they survive the ordeal?

Join our brand new podcast community -- discuss what you've heard, ask questions to guests and and meet fellow listeners! Sign up here: https://join.slack.com/t/scienceforpol-iju8175/shared_invite/zt-1q94fmb6r-oG3q8QKf8cxXnKMNCkR77A

Jan-Pieter Krahnen on financial policy advice

Mon, 27 Feb 2023 06:45:00 +0100

Is financial advice science advice? How independent can a financial advisor be? Did the world of economic policy advisors have their epiphany in 2008 in the same way that other sciences did in 2020? If anyone can answer these questions, it's Professor Jan-Pieter Krahnen!

Eleanor MacKillop & James Downe on knowledge brokering organisations

Mon, 13 Feb 2023 06:45:00 +0100

In a complex science-for-policy ecosystem, what role is filled by the so-called 'knowledge-brokering organisation'? It's not a scientific organisation, nor a science advisor, nor a think-tank, nor a policymaker. Yet these organisations abound and they can be highly influential — as Professor James Downe and Dr Eleanor MacKillop argue. In this episode, these two experts on this under-appreciated corner of the policymaking world explain to Toby Wardman the roles, challenges and strategies that characterise the work of knowledge-brokering organisations around the world.

Carina Keskitalo on undead models of science advice

Mon, 30 Jan 2023 06:45:00 +0100

What's that misshapen, lumbering form looming from the shadows? Why, it's the old linear model of science advice, already killed a thousand times over, but somehow still living -- and it's coming for YOU. Luckily, we have Professor Carina Keskitalo to hammer (another) stake into the heart of this monstrosity, with a tour-de-force about why you can't just tell your social scientists to shut up and do stakeholder engagement. Shoulder your crossbow, clutch your crucifix and enjoy! Resources mentioned in this episode

The social aspects of environmental and climate change. http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn:nbn:se:umu:diva-191872

Help us choose a channel for our listeners' community: https://bit.ly/3XE8LRY

Christiane Gerblinger on how experts self-sabotage

Mon, 16 Jan 2023 06:45:00 +0100

When science advisors are employed by governments, how do they reconcile the competing needs to accurately convey the science, while ensuring it can be of maximum use in the current political context?

Dr Christiane Gerblinger has one answer: her research suggests that advisors adopt strategies to make themselves deliberately ignorable.

Resources mentioned in this episode

How Government Experts Self-Sabotage: The language of the rebuffed. https://press.anu.edu.au/publications/how-government-experts-self-sabotage

Noam Obermeister on how science advisors learn

Mon, 19 Dec 2022 06:45:00 +0100

So you want to be a science advisor? The bad news: there aren't really any books, powerpoint presentations or training courses that can teach you the skills you need. The good news: doctoral researcher Noam Obermeister has found out everything he can about the learning journeys of scientists who work with policymakers, both what they learn and how. And he might even be able to tell you if you will sink or swim.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Twitter thread on science advisors' learning journeys: https://twitter.com/NObermeister/status/1584932780840194048

Geoff Mulgan on how to synthesise knowledge

Mon, 05 Dec 2022 06:45:00 +0100

On this podcast, and in the world of science advice studies generally, we spend a lot of time discussing the science-policy interface and what should exist on the 'science' side of it in order to most effectively support policymaking. But Professor Sir Geoff Mulgan asks a different question: what happens on the other side of the interface, when policymakers are landed with a vast array of knowledge, theory and opinion, and have to somehow construct from that — and their own political and economic realities — an intelligible way forward.

Barbara Prainsack on ethics advice in a crisis

Mon, 21 Nov 2022 06:45:00 +0100

We live in an age of crisis — and the crises that we face are more numerous, more widespread and more overlapping than ever before. In the chaos of high-pressure, life-and-death policymaking, politicians could benefit not just from scientific advice but also from the input of ethicists. That's where Barbara Prainsack, chair of the European Group on Ethics and New Technologies, comes into the picture.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Statement on values in times of crisis: https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/document/1690e112-9826-4ede-811b-fad63167b9d9_en (available from 22 November)
Evidence review report and Scientific opinion on strategic crisis management in the EU: https://www.sapea.info/crisis/ (available from 22 November)

Rebecca Natow on politically-infused evidence use

Mon, 07 Nov 2022 06:45:00 +0100

Evidence is not the exclusive province of science advisors and science advice institutions. And especially in policy areas where those institutions are weak or absent, other forces rush to fill the vacuum: stakeholders, lobbyists, interest groups. In this epsiode, Dr Rebecca Natow talks to Toby Wardman about federal education policy in the US, a domain that employs a 'negotiated rulemaking' methodology to try to find consensus among many stakeholders — even though scientific input is also legally mandated. The result is a swirling, politically-infused debate around the meaning of both quantitative and qualitative evidence. Resources mentioned in this episode

Reexamining the federal role in higher education https://www.tcpress.com/reexamining-the-federal-role-in-higher-education-9780807766767
Higher education rulemaking: the politics of creating regulatory policy https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/11563/higher-education-rulemaking

Jaishree Subrahmaniam and Marija Mitic on Marie Skłodowska-Curie Actions

Mon, 24 Oct 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Marie Skłowdowska-Curie Fellowships, administered by the European Union, are some of the world's most prestigious academic fellowships, supporting researchers from all disciplines and at all stages of their careers. But alongside the core programmes are a growing number of activities designed to help researchers to interact with policymakers, from both the MSCA programme and the Alumni Association that has grown up around it.

In this episode, Marija Mitic and Jaishree Subrahmaniam discuss their science-for-policy work and the challenges faced by early-career researchers.

Chloe Hill on not looking up

Mon, 10 Oct 2022 06:45:00 +0200

When a giant comet is hurtling towards Earth... when US president Orlean is more concerned about her approval ratings than preventing the extermination of all life... when the policy advice of America's greatest scientific minds is falling on deaf ears... when there is panic on the streets and the world's best response is capitalist greed... Who you gonna call? The world may be 99.7% doomed, but at least we have Chloe Hill on the line to point out what went wrong and how the science advisors could have made a difference. Resources mentioned in this episode

Don't Look Up (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/title/81252357
EGU blog post: https://blogs.egu.eu/geolog/2022/02/04/geopolicy-dont-look-up-could-better-science-advice-have-saved-the-planet/
JRC report on values and identities: https://knowledge4policy.ec.europa.eu/projects-activities/values-identities-policymakers-guide_en
Episode on JRC competence framework: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgggHbVuEDA

Rémi Quirion on the languages of global science advice

Mon, 26 Sep 2022 06:45:00 +0200

The emergence of English as the dominant international language of science has some significant downsides. One is the impact this has on science advice, where non-English-speaking countries risk finding themselves behind the curve in terms of both scholarship and practical applications. As part of his presidency of the International Network for Governmental Science Advice, Professor Rémi Quirion of Québec has made it his mission to broaden our linguistic outlook. In this joint episode co-published with INGSA, he talks to Toby Wardman of SAPEA about the role of global networks in reaching not only national governments, but also regions, cities, teachers and students across the world. Resources mentioned in this episode

INGSA: https://ingsa.org/
Conversation with Leonie Tanczer: https://sapea.info/podcasts/leonie-tanczer-maria-jarquin-natasha-boyd/

Janusz Bujnicki on developing science advice in Poland

Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:45:00 +0200

From Brussels to Warsaw, Professor Janusz Bujnicki is helping to shape the future of scientific advice. In this episode, he compares his experiences advising the European Commission with current efforts to develop more high-level science advice mechanisms in his home country of Poland. With Toby Wardman of SAPEA, he discusses the value of transparency versus discretion, the distinction between policy-for-science and science-for-policy, and how to make mistakes gracefully as part of the learning process.

Mark Ferguson on Solly Zuckerman

Mon, 29 Aug 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Solly Zuckerman was the first chief scientific advisor to the UK government, a post he himself defined, and arguably one of the first to hold such a post in the world. His views, experiences and anecdotes from both the Second World War and the Cold War -- as described in a thousand or so pages of autobiography -- are so valuable that Mark Ferguson, today's guest, wishes he'd read them before he became chief scientific advisor to the Irish government.

Don't make the same mistake as Mark and leave your study of Zuckerman until your retirement. Listen to this episode today!

Resources mentioned in this episode

From Apes to Warlords: https://www.amazon.com/apes-warlords-Solly-Zuckerman/dp/0060148071
Monkeys, Men and Missiles: https://www.amazon.com/Monkeys-men-missiles-autobiography-1946-88/dp/0002175010

Michael Bang Petersen on integrating psychology into policymaking

Mon, 15 Aug 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Lieve Van Woensel on foresight

Mon, 01 Aug 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Foresight methodology helps science advisors check their blindspots, recognise their biases, and figure out the second- and third-order ripple effects of even the most innocuous of policy interventions. And Dr Lieve Van Woensel of the European Parliament, who talks to SAPEA's Toby Wardman in this episode, quite literally wrote the book on foresight.

Resources mentioned in this episode

A bias radar for responsible policymaking, by Lieve Van Woensel. https://lievevanwoensel.com/
European Parliament Guidelines for foresight-based policy analysis: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_STU(2021)690031

Scott Bremer on supply, demand and integrated science advice

Mon, 18 Jul 2022 06:45:00 +0200

In a very wide-ranging discussion, Dr Scott Bremer brings Toby Wardman up to speed on topics such as the inadequacy of the supply/demand dichotomy, the challenges of fitting the square peg of science into the round holes of real-world policy decisions, the relationship between scientific knowledge and other forms of knowing, and why he moonlights as a gardening therapist by the Norwegian fjords.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Sarewitz, D. (2004). How science makes environmental controversies worse. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1462901104000620

Peter Jackson and Marta Rivera Ferre on social sciences and framing

Mon, 04 Jul 2022 06:45:00 +0200

While the natural sciences try to quantify and describe the natural world, the role of the social sciences is to understand people — including their many different attitudes, values and worldviews. This perspective is complex, but it is vital for policymakers, since policy directly engages with people. And, as Professors Peter Jackson and Marta Rivera Ferre argue, the way you frame a question can lead to radically different answers — even though different framings are equally valid. How does science advice help to meet these challenges?

Resources mentioned in this episode

Evidence Review Report and Scientific Opinion on a sustainable food system: https://www.sapea.info/food

Lene Topp and Florian Schwendinger on competences for policymaking and advice

Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:45:00 +0200

We know that being a science advisor for policymaking requires a set of skills, knowledge and attitudes that are often very different from those that come with being a researcher. And the same is true for policymakers, who also need to adopt new ways of working and thinking to integrate the evidence base into their work. Wouldn't it be nice if some kindhearted individuals took it upon themselves to comb through the literature to identify, list and organise all these essential competences, and then shared them with the community in an easily accessible format?

Oh look! Here come Lene Topp and Florian Schwendinger of the European Commission's Joint Research Centre!

Resources mentioned in this episode

Competence frameworks: https://knowledge4policy.ec.europa.eu/projects-activities/competence-frameworks-policymakers-researchers_en

Rebecca Fitzgerald and Harry De Koning on cancer screening policy

Mon, 06 Jun 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Nowhere is the tension between society-wide policy and individual choice as stark as in the field of public health. Can a committee of experts, informed by scientific evidence and in consultation with stakeholders, realistically make health decisions for a whole population? How might those decisions compare to the choices of individual patients and their physicians? Fresh from their work collecting evidence to inform screening programmes in the EU, Professors Rebecca Fitzgerald and Harry De Koning discuss the role of evidence in cancer screening policy and how it interfaces with clinical judgement and patient choice. Resources mentioned in this episode

Evidence review report on cancer screening: www.sapea.info/cancer

Zeynep Pamuk on science courts

Mon, 23 May 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Could the implications of science advice, and the policies that follow from it, be decided by a citizen jury following a courtroom battle between scientific adversaries? Dr Zeynep Pamuk thinks so, and in this episode she tells Toby Wardman why.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Politics and expertise: How to use science in a democratic society: https://press.princeton.edu/books/ebook/9780691218946/politics-and-expertise
Arthur Kantrowicz on science courts: https://www.jstor.org/stable/29761595

Jakub Bijak and Daniela Vono on science advice in migration policy

Mon, 09 May 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Some of our discussions on this podcast can veer towards the abstract and philosophical. Not today! Migration policy is an area where high-minded principles drive headlong into authentic realpolitik — an area where science has lots to offer, but how much of it is actually listened to, never mind implemented, is a whole different question. Two experts on migration policy, Professor Jakub Bijak and Dr Daniela Vono, debate with Toby Wardman the pros and cons of working in such a contentious area.

Bianca Nogrady on abuse of science advisors

Mon, 25 Apr 2022 06:45:00 +0200

We should be careful what we wish for. The Covid-19 pandemic ushered in a new era of public prominence for science advice, and the emergence of a new breed of 'celebrity' advisor whose face was recognisable from our TVs, newspapers and bedspreads. But in the modern world, public prominence has a dark side too. Science journalist Bianca Nogrady has researched the increasing issue of abuse and threats directed at science advisors. In this episode, she outlines what's going on, what causes it, and how we might try to tackle it. Resources mentioned in this episode

Bianca Nogrady: https://biancanogrady.com/

Ortwin Renn on the many roles of science advisors

Mon, 11 Apr 2022 06:45:00 +0200

Professor Ortwin Renn is one of Europe's leading academic authorities on scientific advice, complexity and risk. In this wide-ranging conversation on the multiple roles played by science advisors, he discusses the limits of science as a source of knowledge, the challenge of complexity and wicked problems, why scoping is so hard, science as a catalyst, tangled values, good and bad faith motivations, and much more besides.

Erin Macdonald on being Star Trek’s science advisor

Mon, 28 Mar 2022 06:46:00 +0200

What joint challenges are faced by policy advisors and TV advisors? Why would a committed scientist make the switch from basic research to the entertainment industry? How serious is Star Trek about 'getting the science right'?

In this reissue of an episode from 2020, Dr Erin Macdonald discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the nature of gene transfer in tardigrades, whether it’s wise to step into the transporter, and how to solve the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in one easy step.

Helen Keller on science, policy and the European Court of Human Rights

Mon, 14 Mar 2022 05:45:00 +0100

Just as politicians and policymakers need scientific advice to inform their decisions, so too do judges. But in the adversarial context of a courtroom, science and evidence can be even more hotly contested than in the public policy sphere. And in recent years, campaigners from several European countries have tried to bring the science of climate change before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, hoping to force national governments into dramatic policy changes.

In this episode, Professor Helen Keller — for nine years a judge on the Strasbourg bench — discusses these cases with Toby Wardman, as well as drawing analogies between the challenges faced by science advisors to governments and by expert witnesses in courtrooms.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Analysis of climate change cases by Professor Keller and others: https://academic.oup.com/hrlr/article/22/1/ngab030/6497578
Litigation by Klimaseniorinnen: https://www.klimaseniorinnen.ch/english/
Climate change decision by the German constitutional court: https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/reshaping-climate-change-law
Portuguese youth litigation: http://climatecasechart.com/climate-change-litigation/non-us-case/youth-for-climate-justice-v-austria-et-al

Diana Ürge-Vorsatz on what makes the IPCC tick

Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:45:00 +0100

On the same day this episode went live, the world-renowned IPCC published its comprehensive report on climate change impact and adaptation. Taking time out of a hectic 24-hour calendar of scientific meetings and reviews, Professor Diana Ürge-Vorsatz — one of the coordinating lead authors — sat down a week earlier with Toby Wardman of SAPEA to provide a fascinating insider insight into the workings of IPCC and the secret sauce that keeps the world's best-known scientific advice mechanism firing on all cylinders.

Resources mentioned in this episode

IPCC working group 2: https://www.ipcc.ch/working-group/wg2/

Matthew Flinders on science, political accountability and blame

Mon, 14 Feb 2022 06:45:00 +0100

Combative debate, accusations and blame are often seen as legitimate tools in the toolbox of partisan political debate. Now, in the new world of high-profile science advisors stepping (or being dragged) into the political limelight, should they be held to the same standards of accountability as their political colleagues?

Two years on from the start of the pandemic, an era of public enquiries is beginning, and Professor Matthew Flinders has something to say about the dangers scientists face — and what practical skills they might need if they want to survive in the shark tank.

Silvio Funtowicz on post-normal science advice

Mon, 31 Jan 2022 06:45:00 +0100

Professor Silvio Funtowicz is one of the originators of the concept of post-normal science, which urges us — both scientists and policymakers — to widen the sources of evidence we draw on, the kinds of knowledge we recognise, and the communities who evaluate our success.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Professor Funtowicz lays out the history of post-normal science and delves deeply into its implications for the science-policy interface, especially in a world grappling with multiple public health and climate crises

Resources mentioned in this episode

Foundational paper on post-normal science: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/001632879390022L

Becca Shellock and Mark Dickey-Collas on gaining, losing and repairing trust

Mon, 17 Jan 2022 06:45:00 +0100

The International Council for the Exploration of the Seas is a century-old science advice mechanism. Throughout its long and storied history, it has gained, lost and repaired the trust of national governments and international institutions on many occasions.

In this episode, a social scientist from the Australian National University and the chair of the ICES advisory committee discuss strategies for building and maintaining trust at the science-policy interface — and what goes wrong when scientists become a little bit too trusted.

Mario Giampietro and Roger Strand on confronting uncomfortable knowledge

Mon, 13 Dec 2021 06:45:00 +0100

Policymakers, like the rest of us, construct narratives to understand how the world works and to justify decisions based on that. At their best, these are shaped by scientific evidence. But even the best-informed narratives must by definition leave something out — and when what is left out would challenge or undermine the narrative, this is 'uncomfortable knowledge'.

Our guests today, Mario Giampietro and Roger Strand, argue that failure to confront uncomfortable knowledge in a variety of important areas is leading to existential problems for our democratic institutions. But is it possible to escape the death spiral — and what can science advisors try to do about it?

Resources mentioned in this episode

Keeling curve: https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/

Heather Douglas on how values shape science advice

Mon, 29 Nov 2021 06:45:00 +0100

The practice of science is impossible without importing its values from society, and it's time to leave behind the notion of the independent science advisor who speaks truth to power. So argues Professor Heather Douglas, author of the influential book 'Science, Policy and the Value-Free Ideal'.

In this episode, Toby Wardman talks to Professor Douglas about how we can make sense of a scientific community imbued with a diverse mixture of ethical values, and which ideals should replace independence for those who give scientific advice to policymakers.

Heather Douglas works at Michigan State University and is a board member of the Peritia project on trust in science.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Science, Policy and the Value-Free Ideal: https://upittpress.org/books/9780822960263/
Blackawton bee study: https://www.wired.com/2010/12/kids-study-bees/

Michel Claessens on science, policy and Covid-19

Mon, 15 Nov 2021 07:45:26 +0100

The global pandemic which began in 2020 has brought unprecedented exposure and pressure for science advisors. A recent book, The Science and Politics of Covid-19, surveys the political and scientific response to the crisis. This episode features a wide-ranging conversation with the author, Dr Michel Claessens, on what went right, what went wrong, and what this might mean for the future of science advice.

Resources mentioned in this episode

The Science and Politics of Covid-19: https://www.bookspot.be/engelse-boeken/the-science-and-politics-of-covid-19-9783030778637

Thea Snow and Adrian Brown on different sources of knowledge for policy

Mon, 01 Nov 2021 05:45:00 +0100

We all know that scientific evidence is just one of many inputs into policymaking. But what if the notion of evidence itself is too narrow? Are there reliable sources of knowledge other than 'evidence', and if so, how can they be integrated into the policymaking process alongside the theories and data offered by science?

At the Centre for Public Impact, Adrian Brown and Thea Snow work to broaden policymakers' understanding of the kinds of knowledge that governments can work with. In this episode, they talk to Toby Wardman about how the world of science advice can adapt to this broader understanding too.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Centre for Public Impact: https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/
'Braiding sweetgrass', by Robin Wall Kimmerer: https://milkweed.org/book/braiding-sweetgrass
'Seeing like a state', by James Scott: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300078152/seeing-state
The Cynefin framework: https://www.cognitive-edge.com/

Leire Rincón García on evidence, ideas, and the race for political attention

Mon, 18 Oct 2021 06:45:00 +0200

Politicians and lobbyists alike dream of the silver bullet: a single killer piece of scientific evidence that will change all our minds about future policymaking. But could any simple piece of evidence have the power to beat big ideas in public debate? And can evidence garner political attention even when the politicians don't go looking for it?

Dr Leire Rincón García's field research on the policy of Universal Basic Income seems to suggest that the answer is 'no'. In this episode, Dr Rincón and Toby Wardman together debate why parliamentarians were more likely to ignore emails that cited evidence, what could be done about it, and whether there is a defensible role for the 'activist scientist' in policy advice.

Resources mentioned in this episode

The reverse silver bullet: https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tpp/ep/2021/00000017/00000003/art00003;jsessionid=50s51rbqg6uec.x-ic-live-01

Jennifer Clapp on global food systems advice

Mon, 04 Oct 2021 06:45:00 +0200

One in three people in the world suffers from malnutrition of one form or another. The world's most prominent intergovernmental body for addressing this challenge, the UN Committee on World Food Security, has its own science advice service made up of experts from around the world.

In this episode, Professor Jennifer Clapp gives Toby Wardman a whirlwind tour of the High Level Panel of Experts on Food Security and Nutrition, the challenges of making policy in such a complex topic as global food systems, and what it's like to give high-profile science advice at a global level.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Committee on World Food Security High-Level Panel of Experts: http://www.fao.org/cfs/cfs-hlpe

Who‘s afraid of epistemic diversity?

Mon, 20 Sep 2021 06:45:00 +0200

In this special episode, twelve scholars of science advice discuss the challenges of incorporating a radically diverse range of perspectives into a science advice process. This conversation was recorded as part of the INGSA 2021 conference on global science advice, and is moderated by Estelle Balian.

Speakers in order of appearance

Jacopo Torriti, Professor of Energy Economics and Policy, School of the Built Environment, University of Reading
Tuula Teeri, President of the Royal Swedish Academy of Engineering Sciences, Chair of Euro-CASE
Diana Ürge-Vorsatz, Professor, Department of Environmental Sciences and Policy Central European University, member of the IPCC and member of SAPEA energy working group
Jennie Stephens, Director of the School of Public Policy and Urban Affairs and the Dean’s Professor of Sustainability Science and Policy, Northeastern University
Thomas Bauwens, Senior Researcher and Lecturer at the Copernicus Institute of Sustainable Development, Utrecht University
Clark Miller, Professor in the School for the Future of Innovation in Society and Director of the Center for Energy and Society, Arizona State University
Alex Stingl, Centre for Interdisciplinary Methodologies, University of Warwick
Katri Mäkinen-Rostedt, Tampere University
Kristian Nielsen, Research Associate at the Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab, Department of Psychology, University of Cambridge
Yvan Dutil, Ministry of Health and Social Services, Québec
Heather Douglas, philosopher of science, Michigan State University

Resources mentioned in this episode

Original recording: www.sapea.info/epistemic-diversity

The original recording also includes remarks from Nebojsa Nakicenovic, Tom van Ierland, Sebastien Renaud and David Mair.

Kristian Krieger and Stijn Verleyen on mapping Europe‘s science advice landscape

Mon, 06 Sep 2021 06:45:00 +0200

When it comes to science advice infrastructure, Europe is far from a unified whole. That's why the European Commission's science service, the Joint Research Centre, set out to map the entire landscape, looking not only at European and national level but also digging into the way science influences policy within regions and even individual cities.

In this episode, Toby Wardman talks to Kristian Krieger and Stijn Verleyen, two of the JRC's project leaders in mapping and evaluating the science-for-policy landscape in Europe.

Resources discussed in this episode

Science for policymaking workshops:
https://knowledge4policy.ec.europa.eu/evidence-informed-policy-making_en
Science meets parliaments and regions: https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/science-meets-parliamentscience-meets-regions

Piotr Magnuszewski and Nicole Arbour on games at the science-policy interface

Mon, 23 Aug 2021 06:45:00 +0200

How can policymakers really understand the nitty-gritty of a complex system and how their decisions can influence it? How can scientists get a handle on the many competing variables that policymakers must take into account alongside the scientific evidence? One idea is to throw both of them into a live simulation of the system they want to understand, and let them sink or swim.

In this episode, game designer Piotr Magnuszewski and science-policy expert Nicole Arbour chat with Toby Wardman of SAPEA to explore whether, and in what circumstances, games can be a useful form of science advice.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Dennis Meadows's Fish Banks game: https://systemdynamics.org/products/fish-banks-game/
Introduction to social simulations: https://socialsimulations.org/

Caroline Wagner on the internationalisation of science and policy

Mon, 09 Aug 2021 06:45:00 +0200

The world is more interconnected than ever, and global research is no exception. But when scientists work together across borders, who wins — and who, if anyone, loses? Should policymakers be concerned about 'leakage' of publicly-funded research? How is science advice impacted? And in a global knowledge community, is there any future for old-school concepts like science diplomacy?

Professor Caroline Wagner, author of 'The New Invisible College' and 'The Collaborative Era In Science', joins Toby Wardman of SAPEA to discuss the brave new world of cross-border science, and what, if anything, we can do about it.

Leonie Tanczer, María Jarquín and Natasha Boyd on diversity in science advice

Mon, 26 Jul 2021 06:45:00 +0200

Our two-part series focusing on students and early career researchers concludes today with a lively conversation about teaching, learning and scholarship. Dr Leonie Tanczer, the designer of a unique science advice course at University College London, joins two of her former students María Jarquín and Natasha Boyd to discuss how the field is seen through the eyes of students — with a particular focus on improving diversity in the science advice community.

=== Resources mentioned in this episode ===

- UCL blog post on diversity: https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/steapp/2019/06/13/science-advice-diversity/

- McKinsey work on diversity mentioned by Natasha: https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/diversity-wins-interactive

- EScAPE project: https://escapecovid19.org/

Adriana Bankston on career moves from science to policy

Mon, 12 Jul 2021 06:45:00 +0200

Some scientists get involved with policy without giving up their day jobs. Others take their scientific training and move wholesale into the world of policy, taking up roles as advisors, analysts, knowledge brokers or advocates on specific issues.

In the first in a two-part series focusing on students and early-career researchers, Dr Adriana Bankston of the University of California shares her tips and experiences on leaving academia behind and joining the fast-paced world of policy.

David Budtz Pedersen on measuring the impact of science advice

Mon, 28 Jun 2021 06:45:00 +0200

Science, and especially social sciences and humanities, have always had a broad range of impacts on society — impacts which are not easily measured using traditional academic indicators. And engagement with policymakers is one of the trickiest areas to pin down: even when we know it's happening, finding ways to measure and evaluate it can be difficult.

In this episode, Professor David Budtz Pedersen of Aalborg University, Copenhagen, talks to Toby Wardman of SAPEA about ways to discover, strengthen and evaluate the impact of science advice in a fragmented landscape.

==========

Resources mentioned in this episode

Report on the Danish science advice ecosystem: https://bit.ly/3zGfLlR

Pia Kinhult on connecting policy with big science

Mon, 14 Jun 2021 06:45:00 +0200

When it's finished, the European Spallation Source in Sweden and Denmark will be the brightest neutron source in the world, opening up new frontiers for science in a broad range of fields. But building a giant facility like this takes decades of commitment from policymakers and scientists alike. In a political environment dominated by short-term thinking, how do we keep everyone on board to see this kind of project through to reality?

Pia Kinhult, Head of Host States Relations at the ESS and a former leading politician in Sweden, talks to Toby Wardman about keeping things sweet between science and policy at the frontier of world-changing — and expensive — materials science.

Resources mentioned in this episode

European Spallation Source: https://europeanspallationsource.se/

Christina Moberg on the public role of academies

Mon, 31 May 2021 06:45:00 +0200

To coincide with the twentieth birthday of the European Academies' Science Advisory Council, their president Christina Moberg joins Toby Wardman to discuss the role of academies in advising policymakers, communicating with citizens, and contributing to society more generally.

We also discuss the history and role of EASAC, the new challenges of science advice post-COVID, and Nobel prizes.

Risto Nieminen and Jaakko Kuosmanen on inventing a new science advice system

Mon, 17 May 2021 06:45:00 +0200

What happens when your country needs a new science advice system, but all you have is a blank sheet of paper and a mandate to experiment?

The Finnish Academy of Science and Letters set out in 2019 to reinvent science advice with their Sofi project. Two years later, the project is about to become a permanent fixture, and its principal architects Jaakko Kuosmanen and Risto Nieminen talk to Toby Wardman about what worked, what didn't, and how to tell the difference.

Jan Marco Müller on science advice for diplomats

Mon, 03 May 2021 06:45:00 +0200

How much political appetite is there for science advice to foreign policy — and how much impact does it have? What are the differences between advising ministers and advising diplomats? What does the phrase 'science diplomacy' actually mean?

Jan Marco Müller discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to develop advice demand as well as supply, the geopolitics of Russia's vaccine policy, and navigating centuries of accumulated jargon in the international relations sphere.

George Griffin on the science and policy of COVID vaccination

Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:45:00 +0200

How do the COVID vaccines work? How do we prioritise recipients? What are the major decisions facing policymakers when executing a mass vaccination campaign -- and where can science help to advise them?

George Griffin discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to get jabs to developing countries, the origins of the anti-vax movement, and whether we should be worried about rare blood clots.

Special thanks to Rúben Castro for technical help in producing this episode.

Natasha Gardiner on science for policy in Antarctica

Mon, 05 Apr 2021 06:45:00 +0200

How is Antarctica governed, and why do scientists play such a key role in running it? What science advice structures exist to advise Antarctic decision-makers, and how do they function? Can the whole science-as-governance system, designed in the 1950s, survive into the 21st century?

Natasha Gardiner discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss decision-making deadlock, saving seals, and how to start a new human colony on one of Saturn's moons.

Resources discussed in this episode

Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research: https://www.scar.org/policy/science-policy/
Committee for Environmental Protection: https://www.ats.aq/e/committee.html

Roger Pielke Jr on shadow science advice

Mon, 22 Mar 2021 05:45:00 +0100

Can unofficial or self-appointed science advice structures be valuable, or are they destabilising? What responsibilities does a science advisor have when they disagree with the consensus view? What's going wrong, if anything, when a politician picks up the phone and calls their own favourite scientist for input?

Roger Pielke Jr discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the dubious wisdom of electing your commander-in-chief, asking your friend to give you brain surgery, and channeling the dark side of the force.

Tracey Brown on data modelling in policy advice

Mon, 08 Mar 2021 06:45:00 +0100

How widespread is the use of big data in government decision-making? What questions should policymakers ask when presented with policy recommendations based on data modelling? Should opaque models based on machine-learning algorithms come with a health warning?

Tracey Brown discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss spurious precision in scientific results, whether US election pollsters got it right or wrong, and the psychology of ordering wine.

Resources discussed in this episode

Sense About Science guide to data science: https://wordpress-398250-1278369.cloudwaysapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/SaS-DataScienceGuide-V8-SinglePages.pdf

Fred Fenter and Stephan Kuster on the scientific community's response to COVID-19

Mon, 22 Feb 2021 06:45:00 +0100

What does the worldwide scientific community think of how science advice was used in 2020? What impact have lockdown, home-working and the race for a vaccine had on the life and work of individual scientists? Have other areas of science-related policy, such as climate change, been boosted or sidelined since COVID?

Fred Fenter and Stephan Kuster discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss whether a worldwide crisis helps or hinders the cause of open access publishing, whether it has made the scientific community more connected or more disjointed, and why giving public science advice is a risky and often thankless task.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Research paper on the academic response to COVID-19: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.621563/full

Pieter Duisenberg, Liesbeth Hulst and Joost Sneller on science in the Dutch parliament

Mon, 08 Feb 2021 06:45:00 +0100

The Dutch parliament is trialling a new, radical way to take advice from scientists on every draft law that comes before it. How legally robust is it? What are the risks for scientists of getting involved in the cut and thrust of parliamentary debate, and for politicians of inviting professors to "mark their homework"?

Pieter Duisenberg, Joost Sneller and Dr Liesbeth Hulst talk to Toby Wardman of SAPEA about the new science advice mechanism in the parliament of the Netherlands. They also discuss upstream effects of downstream policy changes, the challenges of building a bridge between worlds, and whether such a scheme could be replicated elsewhere.

Paul Nurse, Peter Piot and Christiane Woopen on ethics and multidisciplinarity

Mon, 25 Jan 2021 06:45:00 +0100

Why is multidisciplinary science advice so difficult, and are there ways to make it easier? Should policymakers seek ethics advice as well as science advice? When there is a conflict between the values embedded in different cultural contexts, how can we navigate the conflict sensitively?

Christiane Woopen, Paul Nurse and Peter Piot discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the unique challenges of giving advice in a crisis, the relationship between ‘discovery’ and applied science, and whether Rambo would make a good government advisor.

Resources discussed in this episode

Joint statement on scientific advice during COVID-19: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/346c8eaf-ba79-11ea-811c-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-139601691
Joint opinion on improving pandemic preparedness and management: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/a1016d77-2562-11eb-9d7e-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-171481573

Miriam Frankel on how journalists report science advice

Mon, 11 Jan 2021 06:45:00 +0100

What makes science journalism a tough job? How should the media handle the complexities of science advice systems, especially during a pandemic? And when science advice, political controversy and public health get tangled up together, is a journalist the right person to try and unpick them?

Miriam Frankel discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how not to accidentally amplify fringe scientists, how to coach science advisors to talk to the public, and whether non-specialist readers really care about anything beyond just black holes and dinosaurs.

Resources mentioned in this episode

The Conversation: https://theconversation.com/

Florian Süssenguth on advising Chancellor Merkel

Mon, 28 Dec 2020 06:45:00 +0100

How does Angela Merkel’s confidential science and innovation advisory group function? When can industry stakeholders play a role in science advice, and what are the benefits and challenges when they do?

Florian Süssenguth discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the difficulty of measuring impact, science advice in the post-Merkel future, and what innovation actually means anyway.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Innovation Dialogue: https://www.acatech.de/projekt/innovationsdialog-zwischen-bundesregierung-wirtschaft-und-wissenschaft/

Erin Macdonald on being Star Trek's science advisor

Fri, 25 Dec 2020 06:45:00 +0100

** Note to listeners: The version of this episode first published on Christmas Day included a minor editing error around minute 40 (a few moments of silence). A corrected version was published on 4 January. If your podcast app had downloaded the episode before that date, but you haven't yet listened to it, you may wish to delete and re-download the episode so you have the corrected version. Apologies for the inconvenience! **

Dr Erin Macdonald discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the nature of gene transfer in tardigrades, whether it’s wise to step into the transporter, and how to solve the Heisenberg uncertainty principle in one easy step.

Antonio Loprieno on the history and future of knowledge

Mon, 14 Dec 2020 06:45:00 +0100

How is the nature of knowledge changing? What is the impact of the digital revolution on the roles of universities, academies and science advisors? Is democratisation of knowledge always a good thing?

Professor Antonio Loprieno discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to digitally unwrap an Egyptian mummy, whether there is such a thing as objective truth, and how loudly Toby can scream when his audio is muted.

Cathrine Holst on reasons to mistrust experts

Sun, 29 Nov 2020 06:45:00 +0100

Is there a fundamental tension between democracy and expertise? How can non-experts evaluate experts? When we design science advice systems, should we prioritise independence or interdependence?

Professor Cathrine Holst discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss techniques to reduce human error in science advice, how to pronounce awkward acronyms, and whether populism is the chicken or the egg.

Resources discussed in this episode

The PERITIA project on trust in expertise: https://peritia-trust.eu/

Maria da Graça Carvalho on the origin of the European Commission’s science advice mechanism

Mon, 16 Nov 2020 07:00:00 +0100

Why does European Commission science advice work the way it does? Why did former President Juncker discontinue the standalone post of chief science advisor? Why has the EU settled on a hybrid model which combines advisors, academies and officials?

Maria da Graça Carvalho MEP discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the separate role of the Joint Research Centre, how to attract women and girls to high-salary tech jobs of the future, and whether any science can survive the entire legislative procedure.

Resources discussed in this episode

The Science Advice Mechanism: https://ec.europa.eu/info/research-and-innovation/strategy/support-policy-making/scientific-support-eu-policies/group-chief-scientific-advisors_en

Cary Funk on whether people trust science

Mon, 02 Nov 2020 07:00:00 +0100

What does our best available evidence tell us about public trust in science and science advice? How has that evolved recently? And what's the moral of the story for science advisors, policymakers, and the people who design science advice systems?

Dr Cary Funk of Pew Research in Washington DC discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss whether you can educate people into trusting you, why people give confusingly different answers to seemingly similar questions, and what ‘trust’ actually means anyway.

Resources discussed in this episode

Pew Research's study on trust in scientists: https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/09/29/science-and-scientists-held-in-high-esteem-across-global-publics/

Clarissa Rios Rojas on talking to policymakers about catastrophic risk

Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:00:00 +0200

Is it possible to develop a unified science of catastrophic risk? How can we convince policymakers to take risks to human existence seriously enough? How can we improve our foresight so that we can spot the next big disaster before it hits us?

Dr Clarissa Rios Rojas discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to start a difficult conversation with a politician, whether future doomsday manuals should be stuffed into envelopes or just put online, and why being a scientist is cool.

Mark Walport on the UK's use of science advice during COVID-19

Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:52:33 +0200

Should scientists be free to speak out if they don’t like how politicians use science? Who is to blame if government policy doesn’t follow advice? Why were some countries hit harder than others by COVID in the spring, and did the quality of science advice have anything to do with it? When do scientists speak as scientists, and when are they simply ordinary citizens?

Sir Mark Walport discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the job of a chief scientific advisor, who's really in control of coronavirus (hint: it's not us), and why UK emergency response committees have such awesome names.

Vladimír Šucha and Marta Sienkiewicz on why science advice needs to change

Mon, 05 Oct 2020 07:00:00 +0200

How can science advice — and science in general — keep up with dramatic changes in the world? How do you build an organisation that can translate scientific results into policy solutions? What responsibilities do politicians have when they choose to ignore or override scientific advice?

Vladimír Šucha and Marta Sienkiewicz discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the nature of trust, how intimately linked scientists and politicians can safely become, and whether scientists do in fact know everything.

Resources discussed in this episode

Science for Policy handbook: https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/communities/en/community/evidence4policy/document/science-policy-handbook

Bart Koelmans on communicating risk and uncertainty to policymakers

Mon, 21 Sep 2020 07:00:00 +0200

Do policymakers and scientists have different understandings of "risk"? How can scientific uncertainty be pinned down and quantified? When experts disagree about the evidence, is there anything useful that the policymaker can take away from that disagreement?

Bart Koelmans discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the strength of the evidence for harm from microplastics, the limits of the natural sciences, what numerical value of probability is implied by the word "probably", and how English speakers should try to pronounce the word "Wageningen".

Bart is a professor in Aquatic Ecology and Water Quality at Wageningen University and at Wageningen Marine Research. His main research is on the risks and impacts of microplastic pollution, on which topic he has chaired science advice groups for the UN and European Commission as well as national governments and other policymakers.

As always, the opinions expressed in this episode are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of SAPEA or the European Commission.

Resources discussed in this episode

WHO report on microplastics in drinking water: https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/publications/microplastics-in-drinking-water/en/
SAPEA report on microplastics pollution: https://www.sapea.info/topics/microplastics/

Rolf Heuer and Pearl Dykstra on being a chief science advisor

Mon, 07 Sep 2020 17:38:43 +0200

What's it like to be a Chief Scientific Advisor? Why does the European Commission's Scientific Advice Mechanism use both advisors and academies? What have the advisors learned in the first five years of the mechanism's existence and what tips would they give to their successors?

Professors Rolf-Dieter Heuer and Pearl Dykstra discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also talk about making sense of disagreements science, whether the world is really losing faith in experts, and whether time travellers recently saved the world from being destroyed by a miniature black hole.

Resources discussed in this episode

The Scientific Opinion 'Scientific Advice to European Policy in a Complex World': https://ec.europa.eu/info/research-and-innovation/strategy/support-policy-making/scientific-support-eu-policies/group-chief-scientific-advisors/scientific-advice-european-policy-complex-world_en
Report on the first five years of the Scientific Advice Mechanism: https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/informing-european-commission-policy-making-scientific-evidence_en

Peter Gluckman on the worldwide response to COVID-19

Tue, 01 Sep 2020 11:17:24 +0200

What has COVID-19 taught us about science advice? How have different countries responded to evolving evidence during the pandemic? Have some science advice models performed better than others in terms of public health outcomes? Can science advice really help much when evidence is partial or controversial, and decisions are needed at high speed?

Sir Peter Gluckman discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss where to draw the line between evidence and democratic decision-making; whether scientists should air their disagreements in public or keep them behind closed doors; scientific hubris vs humility; and the emerging phenomenon of the celebrity science advisor.

Sir Peter is president of the International Network for Government Science Advice, president-elect of the International Science Council, director of Koi Tū: the Centre for Informed Futures at the University of Auckland, and the former Chief Scientific Advisor to the government of New Zealand.

As always, the opinions expressed in this episode are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of SAPEA or the European Commission.

Resources discussed in this episode

INGSA's evidence-to-policy tracker: https://www.ingsa.org/covid/policymaking-tracker-landing/
Peter Gluckman's essay on the impact of science advice on COVID-19 response: https://informedfutures.org/reflections-on-the-evidentiary-politics-interface/