It's a messy hang, but that's what we're up to over here.

Elvin?  Is it time to remind everyone of The Cosby Show?

It's hard out there for actors, for everyone really,  except popular 90s musicians.  

check out more over at the Patreon where we get even more personal (but no not like that).

https://patreonl.com/kickersofelves

(we talk vacations and end on Hatsune Miku)

How does Predator Badlands work if you only view it as a stand alone move vs a movie setting up a whole trilogy or series?  Wade and Hugh have different opinions.  

Plus, hey Wings of Desire is on Criterion maybe check it out.  

For more thoughts on criticism and politics, plus... religion? hold on.  Check out the patreon

https://www.patreon.com/posts/145381410

After this the discussion switches over to recent politics.  Which you can access on the patreon if that's your thing:

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

What directors are in text streams together?

Just how humane a filmmaker is Paul Thomas Anderson and how does he compare to Quentin Tarantino, David Fincher, Ari Aster, Guillermo Del Toro, Martin Scorcese, and -of course- the Coen Brothers?

We talk a while about Noah Hawley as craftsman and artist, and what we think about the first four episodes of Alien: Earth on FX.

Find more of us talking over at Patreon!

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Was Superman good? 

How does Superman, a movie we all watched, compare with Fantastic Four, a movie only Hugh saw? 

Is Supes anti-Israel?  Does it have first act problems?

Are we as a nation ready to walk away from super hero movies?

What would Benjamin Sisko have to say about the retro futurism of the Fantastic Four?

In Kickers of Elves fashion, we let the conversation wind all over the place.

Get more of that on patreon, where you can hear us talk about Hulk Hogan and more this week:

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Was this simply a tense movie about how we all lost our minds during Covid, or an evil inverse of the John Ford Western?

We all saw Ari Aster's Eddington.  You should too because we spoil it pretty thoroughly in this in depth discussion.  

If you want that Star Trek Strange New Worlds update before Star Trek Resignation covers it check out the patreon!  But be prepared to hear us talk about cats.

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Hear more from Kickers of Elves over at Patreon!

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For more after the explosion, try out the patreon

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For a podcast that started in "the Golden Age of Television,"  we talk about one of the best shows we can remember here on the other side, past "Peak Tv," and sliding down the post-streaming decline.  How does Andor compare to The Sopranos, for instance?

You've had time to watch it.  Here we finally talk about it. Tony Gilroy made a Star Wars show for grown ups. How bout that?  

Check out more content on Patreon, and help pay the hosting fees, if you feel like it. https://www.patreon.com/c/kickersofelves

Check out the patreon for more on Mickey 17, the docuseries The Center Seat: 55 Years of Star Trek, TNG, and details on James' Trek pilot script!

https://www.patreon.com/posts/mickey-17-plus-125151195

Listen in while James workshops his pitch for a new Star Trek show that will never get made BUT ONE THAT WOULD BE GOOD!

On the Patreon you can hear us go on about that new Captain America movie.  It's ok if you didn't see it. Only Hugh did.

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

We also talk about a movie we liked, the excellent Northern Irish movie Kneecap. About Kneecap

Hope you're doing well out there. 

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

Wade also talked about the same dang thing with the scabs over at Star Trek Resignation

Perhaps there's spoilers? But perhaps it doesn't matter.  

On the patreon you'll find more from election thoughts, to things you might actually be interested in, like Batman. https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

Look for "Star Trek Resignation" in all your podcast services.

Here's a link , the second ep of the podcast and maybe even more await you!

and there's always https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

Let us know if you like this sort of thing, or check out the Kickers of Elves Patreon for more content maybe you'll like as well [or better].  

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

Here we talk about the TV show we've been the most excited for in a while.  Specifically, the finale. The statute of limitations is over.  So yeah, spoilers for that.  No space stuff, sorry.  

NOT from the patreon! But check it out. There's plenty over there. For instance: Ever read Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy? We did.

www.patreon.com/kickersofelves

Check out more from Kickers of Elves on the patreon

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Then a look at the Star Trek Adventures role playing game.  

*It's Wade. He talks to Wade. Surprise surprise. No James in this one. 

Yep, this one is from the patreon too. https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

hit us up on twitter if you want, I guess

https://twitter.com/kickerspodcasts

Here is a preamble to that discussion. 

More can be found at the patreon.

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You guessed it: Patreon content!

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

Matrix and Tenet, compared. And Spider-Man. And convoluted metaphors about art. And The View? A little culture talk. James has a delightful conspiracy theory. Who’s coming for the auteurs? Does culture need to decentralize? Can subcultures sustain us? The re-Lolapaloozing of Gen X.

Spoilers I guess.

Wade has only seen one episode of Succession, so James and Hugh tread lightly to talk about what they like on the show every person seems to be talking about.  

Check out the patreon where we go into a longer discussion on current tv including: Joe Pera, Misconceptions about Ronald D. Moore's apple space show For All Mankind, MORE Succession, and finally, Wade’s Discovery thoughts while Star Trek Resignation lingers.

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https://twitter.com/kickerspodcasts

Initiate Arjin visits DS9 to whine! A baby universe. Voles! Jadzia gets an intern, or a trill up for joining who is surprised by the unorthodox Dax. Finally the "Is Jadzia Kurzon?" question is settled. Wade makes the argument this episode can serve as a meta-commentary on the character herself. OH, and there's a proto universe that gets batted around by muppet skinless cats. Are the moral implications of stepping on a universe of ants more deserving of an A plot than Jadzia's sex wrestling? Listen and decide for yourself!

Welcome to Space Mayberry! It's NOT a next generation rewrite? Go figure. Odo and Dax land on a planet that is NOT a TNG script. Quark is running shenanigans while Odo is gone. Will Kira get her swerve on? Yes she will. We love this writer, we... well, this ain't a bad episode.

Cool Hand Benjamin. Sisko and O’Brien crash land on a planet of space Luddites. More Space Amish? Nope. Space hippy cultists. But did this episode have a point that could have been explored more? Classic trek, where a Captain- er commander- is tortured to see what he is made of. But it’s not Cardassian torture this time- for once! We discuss how other captains might have dealt with the situation. And some O’Brien backstory! RambO’Brien Jason Bour’ien?

In the "remix" portion of the pod, Hugh looks back at the episodes of the other shows we talk about on the podcast.

More O'Brien and Bashir bromancing. Two races with ridiculous hair are the worsts hosts ever. How do they repay a favor? Kill the guys doing you a solid. Not cool, bro. After getting rid of what we're told is the ultimate doomsday weapon -but that appears a run of the mill biological weapon, with a name that doesn't describe what it does at all- Miles and Julian hide out in a bunker. Surprisingly NOT a rehashed TNG script. We talk Seuss, Babylon 5, and some redeeming qualities of this episode.

Yeah, we're still doing these. The Rules of Acquisition may be over, but we'll still be looking back at it from time to time.

Hugh revisits The Alternate, and tries to see just what Wade was talking about here...  

Odo's Dad! (kinda) Is this a horror movie? Father issues, the stuff popular filmed entertainment is made of! What happens when the DS9 crew goes to an abandoned planet, brings back an obelisk, and then tries to give every cast member a defining line while trying to recreate The Thing, or Alien? Does that screw up the third act? Wade does his damnedest to defend this episode.

Patrons can hear even more.  

Check it out at

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

Get ready for some renovations.  We're changing the name of the podcast and moving to a new format.  What will we be covering first?  We're delving deep into David Lynch: first with an exploration of all of the films, then we'll cover that other prequel to modern tv, Twin Peaks.

Stick around to the end to hear Wade talk trash at other podcasts and then just talk what may be gibberish.

Oatmeal faced reverse space Mormons! And that's not even meant as a pejorative. Exploration of the universal translator is appreciated, but does it clutter up the rest of this episode where a matriarchal society lands on DS9 and pulls a Battlestar Galactica on Bajor? Just what is Boner from Growing Pains doing? What could have been a great exploration of responses to a refugee crisis turns into a wonky episode of Star Trek. Some "fun" scenes, but unrelated to the central theme of the episode. Would a two parter be better? Is this description making any sense? Our computer voice is a little perplexed...

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https://kickersofelves.com

https://twitter.com/kickerspodcasts

Trigger warning: No Star Trek content contained within!

Miss us? This is the kind of thing we talk about on the patreon.  Those ROA remixes will keep trickling in, we promise.  

https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

What starts with a great father/son scene about that time Picard blew up Ben Sisko's wife devolves into mooning over a woman with no personality and a penchant for disappearing. A man reignites a dead sun with science we are dubious about. But the episode is almost worth watching just for Chief O'Brien's eye rolls alone.

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Wade rambles about this episode and embarrasses himself again.

Go ahead and ignore if you're mad at the lack of Trek. 

Here's that WaPo Article

Want more of these conversations? All the juicy personal drama is over behind the paywall. Check out the Kickers of Elves patreon at https://patreon.com/kickersofelves 

24th Century Buttslap! 

Hugh looks back on this episode and provides some Mark Singer Facts at the end.

Does this Deep Space Nine episode live up to the hype? Maybe not. There are a lot of rules in this episode, and we get the first mention of the Dominion. Plus a lot of rehashed Shakespeare plot from a play two of us performed way back in our high school days. Plus some good old fashioned 90's Gay Panic!

DS9's resident pickup artist, Julian Bashir "falls in love" and has some zero g space sex. We really lay into Julian in this one. We debate some more alien physiology, including turkey wattles and mouth handles in addition to what a lady who grew up flying might look like. How bout that David Foster Wallace reference? Let us know if that alienated you; we love you regardless. Aw, sorry to make it weird again...

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Whilst Julian and Garak flirt at the replimat, a Cardassian boy boards DS9, bites Garak, and sets off a story wherein we actually start to appreciate the character of Julian Bashir. Not nearly as much as we enjoy Garak or Dukat, however. Race issues! Down to a Guess Who's Coming to Dinner scene. This is perhaps the best episode that we've watched since Duet. Also: Why do we love these space nazis so much? Our racist grandpas. Trans-Racialism James has more fodder for his anti Ira Behr libel; we go against the grain of your typical DS9 fan, and praise Gene Roddenberry.

Is the writer a hack?  In the remix material, Hugh reexamines a theme that we have barely gotten to yet in the podcast. 

James called a shot on Discovery.  

A trill episode! Deep Space Nine has been evacuated, but for completely different reasons than last episode! Jon Glover is a mediocre trill, but he wants a slug of his very own...Dax's slug! He assembles a ragtag team of Western tropes, a confederate and a hooker with a heart of gold, to run a badly planned heist aboard DS9. Stat Trek favorite Tim Russ appears as a pre-Tuvok Klingon! We talk a good deal about the ins and outs and evolution of conjoined races.

But this is an action packed episode where Kira and Dax fly a small X-wing sized ship, and encounter a muppet spider - someone found it at a yard sale (really). Lots to unpack in this one. Wade thinks it's a little weak in the scene transitions; James thinks there's some filler. Oh, and Stephen Weber shows up and blows his chance to portray a bigger character on DS9 later! The grand ending of the the three part beginning of Season 2 of the third Star Trek series (not counting the animated one)!

Make Bajor Great Again! Part Two of the "Li Nalis Trilogy." But rather than figuring out his character, this episode actually focuses more on Kira being kicked off the station. On Bajor, Bareil shows her a homemade porno from the Prophets, but we prefer the sexual energy between the old people because... more Frank Langella! The sexiest of Skeletors. Sisko is a stand up guy to an actor with an interesting Star Trek history. We are yet again mostly complimentary.

Wait for the end, where James looks back on his former liberal ways.

Resetting from season one. More Bajor politics! Kira sets out to save a war hero. Because an earring. Is he a real hero or looking for a way out? Liberty Valance. Kira and O'Brien take a trip to Star Trek's favorite rock quarry. Is Li Nalas something to hang this three episode arc on or do they forget about him for most of the next episode! But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Oh, and we get into a big conversations about needing legends and symbols. and more.

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That's it! We're at the end... ...of the first season; thank the Prophets. If you believe in that sort of thing. Two pretty good episodes back to back; are they realigning the show to be... good? Is it a miracle? Does that answer depend on your point of view? This episode has two issues it's good to stay away from at dinner parties: Religion and Politics. Wade, in fact, gets a little into his cups and perhaps overzealous. And definitely a bit crude with some information. We have a lot to say about Nurse Ratched herself, Louise Fletcher, who shows up as one of the big villains of the show. Apologies are made!

The full talk is half an hour on the American failed state, isolation, parenting, men about to have an emotional breakdown, and how things are for James in Covid-19 ground zero California, and Wade in NYC.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/what-difference-34959980

Also, we talk Devs and Alex Garland over here.

Wade reflects on then and now and what we think about now with the world the way it is.

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Looking back, James talks about the podcast as a romantic relationship, and the problems and irritations that arise therein.

In the interest of checking off all the obligatory characters from ST: TNG, Lwaxana Troi shows up in this episode! But wait! It's actually pretty good! She gets more intimate with a gooey Odo than she ever did with Picard. Is she more interesting without her daughter? Bashir is Pete Campbell. Technobabble. Obrien gets a puppy.

Can't Picardly Wait? 

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https://twitter.com/kickerspodcasts

More like "If Wishes Were Horses#!t." Yes, after last week's praise, we're back into the gutter! Obrien meets WHATISCERTAINLYNOTALEPRECHAUN. Nope, it's just another Alien of the Week. As Peter Dinklage said in Living in Oblivion: "Want to make it weird? Oh, put a dwarf in it." So we get "the Man from Another Place" himself, Michael J Anderson as a guest star. We talk about that, some other things, the Julian Problem, and the one good thing to stick around from this episode: Sisko's baseball.

Not mentioned, but for new Star Trek commentary, check out Can't Picardly Wait

Is Star Trek Picard a good show? Hack trope garbage built to mine IP?  Some sort of quantum form existing in both states at once?  

Check out new episodes as Picard airs in its own feed alongside A Discovery Home Companion.

http://discoveryhomecompanion.libsyn.com https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cant-picardly-wait-a-star-trek-picard-podcast/id1275425963 https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/bogmad-media-2/a-discovery-home-companion-a-star-trek-discovery-podcast

Listen, and be amazed as we praise Kira's performance. Niners, be confounded by how little we actually talk about self sealing stembolts! Bajoran politics: Kira has to evict an old man from the Shire. Jake and Nog do a red paperclip story; the Ferengi hate land? We go on a tangent about what Marina Sirtis has had to put up with in her career (more than she should have had to). We disagree a bit, but agree this is a pretty good episode of Deep Space Nine, if not your standard Star Trek. https://patreon.com/kickersofelves https://kickersofelves.com https://twitter.com/kickerspodcasts

One podcast, two versions. Recorded. Years. Apart. Wade feels rusty. Is he?

Nobody likes Julian, even O'brien, but things get set up for later. They yell at a smoke monster. Missourians know river politics. Wade is maybe puerile in what he notices in the set dressing. Jake and Nog hit on a girl. James talks libertarians. Hugh introduces a new segment, where we perhaps insult any listeners who are responsible for the IMDB episode ratings. Hope you're not offended. We love you... Speaking of... Rate us!

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Before watching the new Witcher show on Netflix that everyone else is talking about we talk about the book series by Polish writer Andrzej Sapkowski.   Patrons can hear us on the regular, talking about a variety of subjects at https://patreon.com/kickersofelves.  Dropped this week are two other conversations, about Rick and Morty and TV, plus video games. Is Death Stranding gaming's Gravity's Rainbow?

Jonathan Banks! Plays a pissed off alien. Which he can pull off pretty well as you might imagine. Kai Alpaca, the Space Pope from the premiere comes back and sets things into motion... But mostly we're excited to see Jonathan Banks. That's Mike from Breaking Bad if you don't know who that is. Why don't you know who Jonathan Banks is?

This week a couple of Gene Simmons steal a faberge egg, are double crossed by a space junkie, who turns out to actually be a space Mormon -who wears Odo's cousin around his neck- and everyone takes a trip to the least turbulent "vortex" in the galaxy. Does that make sense? No? Listen and figure out just what the heck I'm going on about. Plus: "Candy Man Caveman" and Wade's self loathing.

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https://kickersofelves.com

OH, and hope you like My Dinner with Andre, cuz Wade finally watched it for the remix, and he's insufferable.

917 408 3898

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https://kickersofelves.com

Hugh tries to do a voice in this episode, and regrets it four years later in the "remix" portion of this episode.  Also: Some background on Technobabble

There's gotta be a reason for what happened in the episode we talk about. Just how are we supposed to feel about that character, anyway? And we introduce "Angry Nerd Corner" (Wait, that's this whole show, right?) Go check out Hello Cruel World by the Tall Dwarfs... for no reason.

How do you fix a character like Maria?? Well, you make her a good character but don't make her try to impress anybody. But OH WAIT. We're talking Dax here. Not West Side Story. This is actually a good episode. LISTEN! (Was somebody drunk when they posted this description?)

Everyone's favorite (or least favorite) Trickster Space God boards the station with Picard's ex girlfriend to help remind you this is a spin off of that Star Trek show you really liked. Remember? Nudge nudge. Wink. Come for the TNG characters, stay to hear us talk about Ferengi sex practices, and vent our transporter frustrations. [Editors note: Oh, and yes we were wrong about the 3 life forms issue. It was the egg. We got it.]

Hey, don't bother with the tumblr, why not check out https://kickersofelves.com or better yet https://patreon.com/kickersofelves 

Or just https://twitter.com/kickerspodcasts

Plus: Linear time, and don't trust Picard with your loved ones.

[*NOTE: Tried a little more fixin this version, but the sound here is of three guys just figuring out how to record this podcast thing. But, hey the content is still great! There have been mics that come and go and we sound a bit different as time goes on. Go figure.]

Want in on next month's roundtable discussion?  Go to https://patreon.com/kickersofelves for more info!

What has happened since last we updated? How have our lives changed forever since we finished watching every episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine? 

What else is in store from Kickers of Elves on the RoA feed?   Hugh has some deets. What is The RoA Remix?  What is this about these TNG roundtables? 

Is this the end voicemails?  No!

First Ben from the UK has a bone to pick with us on the episode “Valiant.” 

Jeffrey from Virginia (The Guy Who Hates Worf) has some valuable insights on Starfleet’s approach to counseling.

Eric from PA (@Aerialbass) isn’t here to tell James to get his head right, but … he does have some things to say about our Season 6. 

Warren from Seattle (@10rant) finally turns on Bashir. 

Jackie from New Orleans is also an expert, on a topic some of us may have gotten wrong in “Times Orphan.” 

Kennedy from NY has some thoughts on Section 31.  Our favorite subject to rehash over and over.  How far is too far with the dark pragmatism for us? 

Didn’t hear your voicemail?  Don’t worry, we’re not done!  We have more to do, and as long as you send em in, we’ll keep responding to them.   

Patrons can hear us talk Tarantino:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/once-upon-time-29126552

And check out the unlocked Dune podcast at the Hashish and Superiority Book Club:

https://kickersofelves.com/hsbc/

Where’s the White Album for Season 7? 

We go into details and reflect on the thesis of the podcast and where we ended up with that.

Wade did a White(ish) Album, and tried to pull a “How would we fix it,” all the way from the begining of the pod to fix the ending. 

What is Star Trek DS9 actually about?  TNG vs DS9:  What is the “best” Star Trek that holds up overall?  Would we have different conclusions if we went through other Star Treks the same way we did this one? 

How have we changed since the start?  What kind of arc and journey have we gone on? 

Who is the creative villain of the show for the podcast?  The MVP?  How right were the actor’s instincts when compared to the writers? 

So what about the “faith” the show was concerned with representing? 

Ranking the writers.  How bout that Robert Hewitt Wolf?   Trainspotting: God, what a movie.   

What have we learned. 

Looking back on Past Tense and the power of stories post 2016.

Lots of talking about storytelling in this one.   

Go to https://kickersofelves.com

or especially https://patreon.com/kickerofelves for more content while Wade gets used to being a dad.

What great shows is this finale closer to than we are now?  Flight of the Concords for instance came out closer to the DS9 finale than we are to FotCs.  The Sopranos is just starting up.  Where were we when DS9 concluded?

Are we sad to see our space friends go? 

Julian breaks up with his boyfriends.   

Does Garak have the most well executed arc of any character throught the course of the show?  What characters were best served? 

What’s the story behind Sisko promising to return eventually?  What other shows show such strong father characters? 

Is the last segment of the show a bummer? What happened there?  Did Avery Brooks send Alaimo to the hospital? 

How bout those matte paintings?  Those space fights hold up better than some other Star Treks’ space fights *cough* Discovery *cough*

What was the point of all of this war?  Did the Borg ruin Star Trek by making it about Big Villains?  Does the Dominion have as strong a core Idea behind them?  Do they have a less compelling argument than Thanos? 

What was the reason the Changelings sent the Odo and the 100 out anyways? 

Smudgin spots.   Obrien’s on a tenure track. 

Do they feel at  all like their not coming back?

That Bajor plot, is peppered in but…

Who’s hangin out at Vic’s?

Is sex grandma the only founder in the quadrant?  Weird how we don’t see the wormholl at all this entire episode.

How much more show could they have fit in if they cut down Vic’s song at the end? 

Is O’briens hurt shoulder a callback?  Why was it the highest priority to get him to sickbay? 

Which scene is just like the Rocketeer?  Remember the Rocketeer? 

Who are the fire cave scenes for?  Give us a call while you can if it’s you. 

How’s Kira in this?  Who’s she working for in this anyway?  Did we need a scene to tell us?   Where’s Willie Mays Sisko? 

Have a laugh at the futility.   Weyoun is pitiful. 

Damar gets a moment. 

We get confused about ranks and Bajor.   

Andrew Robinson always knows what to bring. 

Pour one out for the dead cardies.  80% of liking someone is having a good time.   These captains should smile more.  Garak doesn’t have much to smile about however. 

All the most monumental things happen in the conference room. Treaties signed on paper.  Of course this is from a WWII speech.   

Now that it’s over… back to Vic’s! For a song!  And a Worf bit.    Jadzia only gets one mention all episode, even if she was at the wrap party at Vic’s. 

Sisko fights a balrog.  It’s all about the bum rush.   

Also: One year from Lord of the Rings films. 

Still, it ends without ever seeing the big hole we need. 

It’s a nice closing shot for the show though.

With the episode finished, a little reflection on the show: 

Are we satisfied with the core characters’ conclusions? 

How much of Star Trek is defined by “space friends”? 

Did the show feel Julian was entitled to a woman? 

Worf’s ending is nice, but does it conflict with his position in the movies?   

Why do we think tertiary characters come off so well? 

If this is half baked, is there room for a Grace Cut?   

Everything is theoretically interesting to revisit.  Want to see an 8th season?  Is our answer different (are we different) than 3 years ago? 

You read all the way through this rambling description?  Wow, do you regularly?  You still have a chance to give us a call and let us know. Maybe 917 408 3898

This isn't the final Rules of Acquisition, and Kickers of Elves aren't disappearing completely. Check us out on patreon for plenty of content and follow us for what's next.

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What was Peter Allan Fields contribution?  Nobody’s saying! 

How do we feel about where this leaves some of our characters?  Rom, go on Chapo!  Quark, Sam Malone, and Making Ferengenar Great Again, and Jim from the Office. 

Is the Ferengi story of DS9 topical to our current time?  Does Quark want to roll back Obamacare?  But why talk to long on that when we can talk about the BEST storyline: Dax and Julian? 

Cartoon characters and anime. 

What’s with all the extra stuff in this? Throwing a few favors to the crew in the last days of disco? Is that why it was so dark?  What with the best director of romance in all of DS9? 

Fleamarket jewelry.  Helping folks sell on the convention circuit. 

New ship, who dis?   Fan service.  Is it right to just throw them a new Defiant like that?     

The Terrorist Gang on Cardassia.  Why is that guy names Seskal?   Really? Seskal?  That sound like anything to you?   

Is Mila Garak’s mom or not?   We know “the books” say, but what about the show? 

No mention of Dukat.  All your bases are [destroyed] by us. 

Can you even believe the fake Dominion news?  More topical content! 

The Dominion makes a good point about the timidness of the Federation that is actually proven wrong pretty quickly.  Did this ep seem to secure in the victory? 

Odo takes James and Hugh’s side in last weeks Federation/Section 31 argument. 

Is it an accident when Sisko wears his vest from Pale Moonlight?   How can we reconcile Star Trek with ideals we want it to hold on to?  Back on comparing DS9 to A Few Good Men. 

“I’m pregnant,” male birth control and the best acted scene in the episode.

Missing links aren’t pretty.  How does this penultimate episode hold together thematically? 

Let us know what you think, while there's still time. 917 847 5682

But we're not going away entirely.  Check out the patreon at https://patreon.com/kickersofelves

It was the best of Julian, it was the worst of Julian.  Sloan gets  caught! Via exxxtreme measures. Oh, and Odo is dying.

Putting to rest whether Julian is a good physician. 

O’Brien, reduced to a wingman, or something more? 

What imaginitve vistas could have been?  What do the writers dislike about this episode and what does Wade love?  Speaking of love…  Forget about the Cardassian plot, this is all Bashir and Obrien. 

Odo is Scarecrow, or an essence-drained muppet. 

Ok, the “You love me more than your wife” scene… How gay is it? And how appreciated can it really be?  A soupçon of gay panic?  Do LGBT viewers like that scene?  Is it ok to enjoy it? Should marginalized viewers “take what you get”? 

Why do this stuff at all if it’s not indicative of who Miles is as a character?  Can one enjoy this episode while also agreeing that Miles and the rest of the O’Briens are underserved?  How did Colm Meaney feel? 

“Sadey sit sir”  What?!  Star Fleet would never do this. 

Do the writers realize  enough to talk about systems? It’s time to argue more about Section 31!  How much has Section 31 hijacked the franchise?  Is it a cancer corrupting it? Is Section 31 an aberration or baked in to the Federation now?  Even if it is in trek currently, is it baked into the Federation of Trek in 1999? 

Is what Section 31 injected into the Dominion similar to what DS9 injected into the Star Trek mythos?   Is Star Trek redeemable at this point? Should anyone even  bother?  Jeeeeeeeeez man,   what has this podcast turned into? 

William Sadler is pretty great, right?   

President Joe Camel, remember him?  He got mentioned. 

Does Discovery still haunt Wade?  Should we want new Star Trek stories or just new stories?  Another debate!   Look at that tunnel. Follow the light!  The ol’ switcheroo is almost effective.   Should there have been more thematic resonance to Tale of Two Cities?    

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Tacking into themes.   

Bobby Moynihan Cardasssian: What’s his actual name?

Oh wait, is this the culmination of the post TNG  plot for the Klingons?   Worf: Avatar of regime change. 

Clicking Clocks and ticking tocks.      

What was Voyager going to do with these characters anyway?   

Does it make sense to withold information from Sisko or not? 

Is this a lesson to why stories are broken differently than they used to be?  How much blame [or praise] goes to one person?   Do old tv writing habits die hard?  Does the momentum start and stop? Can you expect the pinnacle of prestige drama writing from a latex forehead show?  What would a DS9 showrun by Moore have looked like?   What if we watched Babylon 5 back   when we weren’t jaded critical jerks? 

A Frank Oz-ian Odo.  Still the least earned romance?  How about Bashir? 

Three hundred years of Section 31 being hidden, huh?  What was that, Discovery? 

Obrien, at the end, reduced to a wingman.  Quark who? 

James wants a “warts and all” documentary.   

“Do whatever it takes.”  Gowron’s got to go. 

Sex grandma wants to kill everyone.   

DS9: First to  coin the term “thot.” Bye, boy.  What kind of BDSM are cardies into? 

Peter Daou Worf.  The system of empire is broken.  American exceptionalism is over?   Who expected that of Ezri?  Don’t you hate it when Star Trek gets political? 

Imagine if we got Priscilla Presley vorta back?   

Good on making your sex grandma bait work, DS9.   Worf takes off his badge; watch out!    Would this fight have worked better with a more elaborate set?   

Does Wade’s opinion matter at all if he hasn’t watched the Star Wars prequels? 

Mexican standoff with meat grindered Odo.  Remember Ziyal, three Dukats ago?    

Hey, how bout ending on a theme? 

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Kira joins the faculty at terrorism school, Julian digs up some Section 31 dirt, and more!

Did this episode take interesting concepts and make them tedious?  We’re divided! 

Was there a better way to get Kira into a Starfleet uniform?  We gotta go back to what we said about non agression pacts. 

These shows love to get outsider characters into the uniform. 

Did the writing get backed up in the room again? 

Does this episode at least start getting the pieces in the right place? 

Is just dipping into dark pragmatism a copout if you don’t follow through on the questions?  Hugh gets heated and doesn’t realize how far ahead he’s watched. 

Rehashing Odo points we’ve had since the beginning of the podcast. 

Obrien: Wingman > Family Man 

Secondary thinking and the lack thereof. 

Gowron comes out like Morris Day.  Tying off the greater Klingon soap opera. 

Cup of Goo:  Getting stem cells from Odo.   Remember when stem cells were controversial?  Last week? 

Oh Solbor.  These Winn/Dukat scenes suffer without you. 

John Hughs movie Miles finally calls out Julian for unethical medical practices.   

The 90s had a lot of AIDS allegories.   

Connecting the dots to Julian’s section 31 spy plot. Space House. 

Remember Benjamin Sisko?   Imagine Admiral Mike Star. 

StarFleet values are so impeccable, any breach by a member is unthinkable unless a traitor.   

Assessing how some of our opinions have changed with the times we’re in. 

A new intermittent segment is introduced from the patron discord.

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Ezri and Worf get home. Earth is attacked. Solbor! Nooo! Oh and something happens to the Defiant.  

The one with all the research.

Arrested developement and juvenile culture.  Tabletop!

Why no Jim and Pam- ing?  Superstore can do it, why can’t DS9 Sam and Diane at all? 

The pepper burning scene?  We’ll give ya that one.   

So everybody still takes the husband’s name in the future, huh?   

Poor ol’ Solbor.  Dukat, Q, and the Great Awakening.  Who is Kost Amojen again?    Hit the books for the evil LSAT.  Should Star Trek stay away from mystical religious stuff?   

Real men also cook.   Kasidy gets a little more dimensionality.  Is Sisko wary of losing another wife?  Is that giving too much credit? 

Angry Nerd Corner:  Doesn’t Colonel Kira have other responsibilties off of a Federation bridge?  What is the status of the Bajoran/Dominion non agression pact? 

Danarys kinda forgot about the Bajoran fleet. 

Can you put pit stains in a Cardassian suit?  Booze sweats? 

Bobby Moynihan Cardassian and chump-ing your way to success, the Damar way. 

End of the first writing chunk of the finale. 

Is the Breen attack on Earth anticlimatic?  What about the Defiant? 

Is Jeffrey Combs the glue holding this arc together? 

Since when do Cardassians not plot?     

Worf as Hitch is… weird. 

Odo? Who’s that?  Marriage changes everything they say. 

Solbor Scooby Doo s Dukat.  Episode MVP!  That’s So Solbor.   Nailed it! 

Louise Fletcher is an Oscar winning actress.  What does she have to work with here? 

Dated FX aside, it feels like a fleet going to battle in a way other Treks don’t always pull off…

How is Sex Grandma like Dr Evil?  Are there too many unforced errors by the Dominion team?

Damar: #Resist.  How little have they showed off Ops over the course of this series? 

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The episodes run together.   Kai Ratched becomes a satanist.   

Who was giggling while writing this? Understanding mature relationships.  Who’s getting cocky?   

Frank Langella, now there’s a man with chemistry. 

We make some Game of Thrones comparisons. 

Three plots to tangle. Written by committee? 

Damar, we love you. 

How much does this retread earlier episodes’s plots? 

Exploring Worf/Ezri some more.  Any better than Winn/Dukat? 

More on how are we seeing DS9 this watch-through.  Is this trying to hard to not be your father’s Trek? 

We’re going to get some flack for demeaning Star Trek as historically not a character driven show, aren’t we? 

Thot Gor.

Clear and concise storytelling.   

Toxic views of marriage:  What’s good for for Klingons maybe shouldn’t work for humans. 

You really want your lead blessing mothers? Why not something a bit more humanist? 

Why hang upside down?  Best way to puke? 

Seduced AND betrayed?  Worf is a weird Klingon.  Was this compelling for repressed Star Trek fans in the 90s?

All the zoomer  kids LOVE SCTV jokes.   Whom amongst us isn’t a Pee Wee Head. 

Kira, U up?  Nevermind, I ain’t about that.   

We do like some things about the Ezri scenes. 

Odo, Quark, where are you? 

The worst end chapter hook so far? 

We know the Pah Wraiths are bad, but why again? 

Why are they doing so much better with Damar than other characters?   

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Dukat has a plan.  What is our least favorite part of this episode?  Is this a Dan Brown novel for Wade?   Is everyone out of position for the end? 

So what is going on with Kai Winn?  How clear is the writing? I’m sure you nerds can tell us.  How can we untangle what we know about this show we saw before? 

Wade drags an actor and feels awful for it, whether they has it coming or not. 

Do Cardassians sleep in their KISS costumes?   Why don’t they spend more Dominion time with Dukat setting up his story?  Wade is frustrated, and switches roles with James. 

A less appealing love story: The Ezri Triangle. 

Has truly NO ONE ever seen a Breen without a mask?  Let’s think back…  BREEN FACTS! 

Dream interpretations are deployed…   to an effect.  Could that effect been been done with… talking?    

What is going on with the romance plots? 

What scenes have Julian and Ezri even had together? 

Was breaking Odo the point of no return?  Shouldn’t he be a bigger player in this by now? 

How did the plot get shuffled around in the room?  What exactly is the religious story saying? 

Is this losing some of the humanism of Star Trek? 

What is Wade’s mutant power? 

Solbor: The best Ranjen.  What’s a ranjen? 

Kai Ratched has a type. 

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They’ve dabbled with serialization, how does DS9 kick off the longest arc any Star Trek had attempted?  What approach did the writers take to assembling the story? 

What mandates and rules did they have to adhere to? 

Setting aside the rewatch meter. 

What kind of shows have we soured on over the past several years? 

Why does Star Trek keep screwing up romances?  More on that next week. 

How’d these scripts get broken? 

What plotlines are in this ep, and what about other important characters who presumably have a part to play in the endgame? 

How much does “destiny” take the agency from characters? 

Ok. How do Starfleet officers own land? What’s up with that?  How normalized is the Federation now?  Is there still room for luxury gay space communism? 

Did Kasidy get shortchanged this ep? 

Cranberry Sauce and The Simpsons.    

Is Damar the only real dude in this story so far?  Has anyone on Star Trek had a serious addiction?   

Skin shaming. Wade should be ashamed.   

Ezri’s one man show acting. 

Is starting the story circle here at a place of comfort a weird beginning?  D&D doll furniture and diamond rings.   

How mucf of a bummer is Worf/Ezri? 

What just do we know about the Breen? 

Don’t count out Wade’s Seal knowledge. 

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Julian is contacted by Section 31 to run some spy shenanigans at a conference.  We end up discussing more than just this episode, and trying to decipher if DS9 overall is portraying a hard moral philosophy or not.

This is a Jean le Carre story apparently? 

What kind of moral position is Deep Space Nine trying to sell  us?  Three options are posited:  Cold War “Dark Pragmatism”, a sacrifice of one's own moral actions in the service of preserving Federation idealism in trying times, or nothing at all and they’re just making this all up from episode to episode. 

Are Sloan and Ross making the same case that Sisko does “In the Pale Moonlight”?  Does Bashir as the point of view character give us the show writers’ opinion? 

Is moral ambiguity in storytelling overrated?  Is it just putting on “smart face?”  Have our feelings on the idealism of Star Trek flipped since the time we started the podcast? 

What does the DS9 have to say about ethics? 

Is this show just ISB karaoke?  Even the RDM episodes? 

Is Ross finally “the good admiral,” or does this episode say otherwise?

How many episodes of DS9 even deal with these kinds of moral stories?  Did it all start with ItPM or was it hinted at before?    

Did shows even have thesises that firm in the 90s? 

This episode at least did, right?

How much of the show does this ep make callbacks to?  Where did Ronald D. Moore get the title for this episode, and what does it have to do with Lincoln and Habeas Corpus? 

Cicero and Rome is brought up, but NOT in reference to the Romulans.

Where does the saying “never say die” come from? 

Did Spock’s dad have Tuvan syndrome?  What’s a Rigelian?  Aw man, what kind of Trek podcast are we? 

Oh look, a Voyager.   

And a couple of Bill and Ted alumni.    

Is this at all a Zach Snyder morality?   

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Waitaminute. Do people not like Vic?  Finally: An episode not based on an old movie, right? 

What was the reason behind the memorable Sisko scene in this?  

The “jack in the box” concept is interesting.  

A TJ Hooker connection!  Spencer for Hire!  

Were the music levels off?  How bout that sinister piano?  

More Mike Starr. Imagine if he were Admiral Ross.  

Who knew “cheech” was spelled “Cicci”?  

Oh Felix.  Worf ain’t here for Vic. A man after James’ own heart.  

1994 was a good year for Mike Starr.  

Is Sisko a bad boyfriend?  Does his widower status affect his relationships?  

Is this a good enough episode for something we don’t care for?  

An emmy for hairstyle.  

How do we feel about Sisko’s stance on romanticizing the 60s?  How can we talk about these things in our modern climate and in the future?  

1999: Mike Starr was in Summer of Sam and West Wing.  

Wade hasn’t seen some movies.  

Who played Zemo?  What did one old movie contribute to cinema maybe?  

Gowron?  Where?  Sy Onara.  

Sisko’s singing.  Where’d that alamo song come from?  

A “fine” Tennessee heritage.

Mike Starr was in Billions just last year.  

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Sex vibes for days. 

For all that creators have acknowledged in the DS9 doc and elsewhere that the show could have done better with LGBTQ issues, is this episode an example of exploring those questions? Or more about marginalized identites in general?  We may not be the best equipped to talk about it, but we’re gonna try. 

What favor did the fx guy do for this episode? 

How much more mileage could they have gotten out of Laas as a reoccurring character instead of Vic? 

Does the shows opinion on “humanoids” differ from what Star Trek usually expouses?  Are we doomed to make “others” out of people by our own DNA? 

Is this the most meaty episode we’ve had in a while?

We stumble into a few Nerd Corners. 

Have we really not met any more of The 100?   

Oh yeah, this is Martok. Who is he impersonating in order to seem condescending?   

Everything is The Link. And sexual. 

Why don’t we do it on the promenade? 

Laas may be a jerk, but he’s not wrong.  Is the science on his side? 

Are the Founders on their way to being classic Star Trek Space Gods? 

Is this an important bridge on Odo’s arc to where he ends the show? 

Does this episode echo important gay stories being told at the time? 

Hate to do it, but we have to talk about alien genitalia.  The Orville gets mentioned.  Go to https://archiveofourown.org/ if you need more. 

Is Quark’s pep talk the advice nobody actually needs to hear from well meaning people?   

Is Laas Larry Kramer? 

Is it weird that the Klingons are pressing charges? 

Good ol’ Cavey. 

Is there a “goof” with the Founder’s disease?  Is there a book that solves things? 

If you can’t goop with me at my solidest… 

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What is the bad part of this episode?  Is there any part of it that isn’t just a take on Silence of the Lambs? 

Did Anthony Hopkins ruin 90s villains with creepy slow talking? 

What does it say when Davey Crocket scenes pop the most?

What’s going on with Vulcans this season?  What’s going on with the writer of this episode? 

On the DL at the Alamo. 

Would  Hector Ilario’s late night be written different post #meToo?

Why use a projectile gun? Does every writer have a pet transporter gimmick?   How ethically dubious are real x ray goggles? 

Nice melon.  Bad safety procedures.

Ezri vs the Chris Evans roles. 

The Rite of Voq Emergence.  The mechanics of talking to former Trills. 

The “Who’s gonna win Ezri” subplot this season: We don’t like it!  Sexualizing vs sexuality. 

Zem Brott and we found Star Trek’s poly relationships! 

Do we really need toxic abusers or is that just for contrived plots? 

Are all these movie homages damaging the show?  Did Babylon 5 find a way to avoid these kinds of problems?  Just HOW Silence of the Lambs did this start? Is there anything else in here? 

Does anyone have the ability to spy on anyone on DS9?    

Was Ezri just a placeholder for the endgame?   

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It’s the final Mirror Universe episode of Deep Space Nine, and we couldn’t be more upset.   

Two of our favorite things. The Mirror Universe PLUS Ferengi shenanigans! 

Get ready to talk about evil bisexual tropes.   Hugh was right about problems in the mirror U since season its first reappearance in DS9.  Now in Discovery they’re still doing it. 

How many episodes are going to start with “we haven’t heard from X in a while”? 

Did this do some interesting things with Ferengi religion and spirituality? 

Is Quarks horniness more character assassination? 

Which is the best Mirror ep? Aside from the original. Oh sorry, “Alternate.” 

Is this show making fun of its fans?  Does it have senoritus. 

Remember “Vulcan Love Slave”?  Remember all the coworkers’ doubles that Sisko slept with? 

How bout that object work from Max and Armin?  What did it take to carry an invisible object?    

Wait wait wait. Not-Hologram-Vic and Sloth Plisken? 

ISB, Boogie Nights, and Zach Snyder. 

Did The Last Jedi rip off a character from this ep? 

One thing James didn’t hate about this episode: Brunt.

Tugging on ear hairs: Ferengi sex is gross.   

You take care of your Nagus. It’s just what you do: Anarcho Capitalists love for authoritarianism.    

Hey, Andrew Robinson was in this. Why aren’t we seeing more Avery Brooks lately?   Just how intimidating is he?   

Why again, do we want to go to the Mirror -sorry “Alternate”-Universe?  Did it lose the original thread?  Do people want Benny Hill shenanigans?  Get ready for our new podcast! 

What is Kira going to do to the Regent that’s so stimulating?  Thanks Joel Esterhaus, for the 90s obsession with sexy domination.   

James has a second nice thing to say; this time about Nicole DeBoer. 

If they know this is the last season why isn’t the show closing doors? 

Back to sexual politics and harmful tropes. 

Apropos of nothing:  Tilda Swinton is great. 

What do we think about comedy in these things?  Stay tuned for Yakkity Saxuality!   

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The sequel that definitely nobody asked for.   

Not even the writers apparently.   What happened here?  Who is owed an apology? 

Audra Come Home. 

Where does this episode sit next to other season’s low points? 

Is this episode actually a nuanced critique of capitalism?  Wade, your audio is going in the penalty box for that take. 

Do UFP citizens live in a post capitalist society or not?  What is the Federation?  Are not all Trill Federation citizens?  Why would anyone leave it?  Is Ezri’s mom a Ron Paul fan? 

Finally, in season 7 of our multi year podcast, we try to figure out what the Federation of Planets defines itself as.   

Bilby? Ok, but what about this new character? Sorry O’brien. 

Bobo Jessica Lang.  The Godfather?  This is a mess; all hands on deck. 

James misses his friends.  What exactly is this Star Trek again?   What is its thesis?  How is our relationship with the show shifting?    

Is Ezri the new Worf?   

Does Miles have a thicker accent? 

We get some Trill world building.  Is Ezri’s family a Bret Easton Ellis novel?  Did Ezri become the black sheep by joining?  Whoah is her brother a creep. What kind of mediocre brother is her other brother like? 

People who relate to Dax’s pronoun confusion deserve better. 

Imagine if Norvo were like Brenda’s brother on Six Feet Under?   

Jambi!   

What was the problem with Bilby’s wife? Was it worth this?   

Follow your passion, or become a sad broken murderer. 

Is it our fault when our brothers get turned into murderers by Capitalism? 

Who doesn’t love a good matte painting?   Make it happen Wes Anderson!   

Has there ever been a good Orion Syndicate episode in all of Trek?  How might that work?   

Apologies again for Wade's poor audio on this one

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Is this the best holodeck episode ever?  Is that damning with faint praise?  What makes a holodeck episode anyway? 

Vic Fontaine. Oh Vic. OH  MY, how some people hate you.

How does this episode’s representation of a hologram character exist within the entire Star Trek franchise? 

How long til the show smartens up about the swinging 60s?

What was the original pitch from David Mack way back in season 2? 

Even with Vic disdain, there is a lot that this episode does pretty well.    Aaron Eisenberg for instance, is pretty great in this. 

What if Vic’s club was “Snoop’s” instead? 

What, no space-fentanyl? 

Is Kesha a traditional Bajoran name? 

What video game  is Nog playing? 

Remember when Obrien was the favorite character of the writers?   Or Sisko? Even Garak?  We’re sorry, Keiko. 

That breakdown scene is good, but what do we three idiots know about combat? 

Continuity Corner:  Where did Worf go in the middle of this episode?  Insurrection! 

How would we talk about Vic in an ethics class? Calvinism for holograms. 

Who hasn’t played Animal Crossing?  What kind of gamer are you even? 

Billy Corrigan and the Saddest Kid in the World. 

For all anyone’s quibbles, this is the kind of episode that sets Deep Space Nine apart from other Star Treks.    

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Kira Nerys does.  Should she be more ready to disengage from Dukat's tiresome shenanigans at this point?   

What cult is this? Koresh or Applewhite? 

Say what you will about this, it has a hard target. 

Dipping into a warm bath of cults.  The Jesus Movement vs more repressive religion of the 80s/90s. Heaven’s Gate Aum Shinrinko and Raelians.   

Heaven shopping on the promenade. 

Is Dukat’s arc starting to fray at this point? 

When did Kira’s Sunday school teacher become a Satanist?  How does this tie into Qanon? 

Are these targets too easy? James asks for both sides of the issue. 

How does Dukat resemble a scandal plagued preacher? 

Lord forgive me, I gotta go back to the old me. 

Wade is a dummy who can’t remember Jared Padalecki’s character on Gilmore Girls. 

Cardassian baby facepaint, fake babies, and what’s up with this baby?

Would Kira be less messy and dramatic in a more serialized show? 

How can an intelligent person believe some of this hokum their culty religion is pushing on them when it’s obvious where dat baby came from? 

Some pah wraith world building with Paradise Lost. 

Corman-ing in the airlock. 

The writer bashing you’ve come to expect from the RoA. 

Hey, the title of this episode actually makes pretty good sense. 

Why Fala had to die.  What if HBO made it?     

Are YOU a member of a cult, preferably a sex cult?  Call the hotline!

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What does the end of History and the 90s have to do with this episode?  WELL WE’RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT.

Salts vs Boots.  Tuco Salamanca!  Will Robinson! Neoliberalism! 

Why was this such a hard episode to get made? 

Is this a facile argument about war in general?  Is the question of whether the war is just or necessary an important one to ask for this story? 

Contrast this to City on the Edge. 

Framing alien species against humans.  Does Quark here epitomize an ideology that we’ve grown beyond?

Hell is for Heroes.  And that ain’t us.  Heinrich Colbe has some cred though.    

Leave Worf out of this one. 

Remember PCU?   

Does this suffer for the lack of Star Trek aspirations?

Is the sermonizing about war is underthought?

Rule 34 again:  War is good for business.

He almost changed the line.  Nicole wasn’t going to beam crouched. 

What songs do the troops play before battle? 

Oh Vic. Some of us hate you.  Star Trek even turned the Beastie Boys into Vic Fontaine.

Is Tuco Vargas?   In praise of technobabble. 

Turns out with an episode this good we have to critique what it says, not how it says it. 

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When Kor shows up at Worf's drunk in the middle of the night and asks him to do a favor so he can die with dignity, what is a bro supposed to do?

Progressive Left vs the old liberals: Worf is Peter Daou. 

This 90s show is all about post Trump politics, right? 

How many people or characters can we compare the cast of this DS9 episode to? 

What are the sexual mores of Klingon culture? 

Klingon military school is like getting into West Point back in olden times. 

We’re still unsure what a Dahar master is. 

The house of Kor, past and present.  Future? Maybe  not. 

Oh, that Dax B plot.  Not our favorite. The questions one gets tired of answering.  What aspects of Dax are the writers retreading? 

Did Jadzia’s non warriors death get expunged? 

How entwined are Kor’s accomplishments and his noble bloodline? 

Klingon Tucker Carlson? 

Peter Daou stories are Worf stories. 

Mean Girls in the cafeteria. 

Oh yeah? Take some Shakespeare, bullies. 

Remember Bobby Bacala?  What if the Sopranos…  no, nevermind. 

That Ronald D. Moore can put a script together, even if it is a basic “blaze of glory” story. 

Martok doesn’t like people eating in his car. 

Wade wrote down a lot of Klingon. Nunek!

What does Armin Shimmerman have to say about Quark this season?  What do we? 

The past was so fraught, we’re scared to just name some characters. 

Klingon Social Security and suicide squads.  We’re going to disrupt dying in battle.    

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The final installment  of the Ferengi Pickers Cycle.  Kira’s boyfriend also gets an interesting story! 

Does DS9 actually do faith ok in this episode? 

“Back massages,” huh? 

Do the Ferengi’s crony capitalism superpowers have any place in the Federation?

Is Sisko being a jerk captain here? 

The individuality of clones.  Do we have trouble waiting for a third act turn that didn’t come? Defect; Defective. 

Female Changeling, you look rough. 

Rule 168: Keep it on the DL.  What is Ferengi gay subculture like in a repressive society? 

First set of ears?  Ferengis are gross. 

Vorta creation myths and religion discussed. 

Only a god would ever think to hide by going on silent running.  Wait.  Does Odo need to breathe? 

A pause to throw shade at Discovery and fandom maintenance. 

Vorta’s have an off button.   

Kira [and the writers] have a good take on religion and faith. 

Think they may do even more stories about her boyfriend?  Be nice to Weezer fans, y’all. 

2309: A good vintage for bloodwine.  Ok, let’s talk about capitalism and profit in Nog’s scheming.  What is Ferengi culture’s endpoint?  Some aliens can’t get enough cancer. 

Is DS9 screwing up my luxury gay space communism?   

Could this have been a 5th season episode? 

Let us know what you think! 

917 408 3898

or support the show and also know what you think at patreon.com/kickersofelves

Julian brings a patient out of a catatonic state and what's the first thing he does after?  

Julian. Your ethics, man.  Has he learned anything over the seasons?  How toxic is the masculinity?  Are we supposed to be rooting for him or not?  How does Miles feel about Julian’s situation? 

Consent.  Do they have it?  Did Julian seek it hard enough? 

Was there actually a story about the expectations we put on women and the assumptions men make? Or was Wade making things up about this episode and stretching the bounds of what the writing can allow?  Was he overthinking it? Speaking of overthinking:

Is accusing someone of “overthinking” an episode a dead end that negates any discussion or is it possible to harp on one detail too much ?   

Oh boy, we get back into the ethnoship debate.  You thought it was over?  Nobody can escape the ethnoship.  Forget it Jake, they're just better than you.

Have opinions on who's right and who's wrong?  Perhaps you can decide:

917 408 3898

For more ethnoship content check out the Kickers of Elves Patreon patreon.com/kickersofelves

Most of it may not even be about ethnoships!

Secrets of Rom. 

A premise well deployed. 

Wait, not the Bad News Bears, but… was this based on an old tv show? 

An… ethnoship?   Oh boy we’re gonna talk about racism. 

USS Vidal Sassoon. 

Is it a weird message if the superior  Vulcans end up overpowering the diverse non Vulcans? 

Buckle up!   

Does this episode show a different approach to the Vulcans than other Trek has embraced up until this point? 

Is it presumptuous for the nerds writing this show to suppose that winning a sports game isn’t the most important victory? 

#SolokCancelled

What is the nature of the truth in Kasidy and Ben Sisko’s relationship?    

How many ways can James talk over, not listen to, or make assumptions about Wade’s points? [Hi, Wade wrote these notes].

Now, what does memory alpha say about ethnoships?

Is there any merit to a story that shows victory in defeat?   

Closing up facts: 

Wait. WHO is Cirroc Lofton’s uncle?!

Black hats.  Padres and Yankees.    

Chekhov’s Fancy Dan.   

Federation anthem? 

Manufactured triumph. Here here! 

Just when you think you’re done… MORE ETHNOSHIP.

Even if it’s not analogous, is it a problem if someone reinterprets a story to make racist analogies? 

Got your own thoughts?  Hit us up! 917 408 3898

And maybe here some more ethnoship talk on the Kickers of Elves patreon, and even better content!

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Is season 7 back on track?

James wants more punch from the scripts.  Are James and Hugh overly demanding? 

Bashir: That Staring Guy. 

For a brief scene it turns into a John Hugh’s movie. 

How was the script thrown a curveball by the later casting? 

Is new Dax a manic pixie? 

Does Sisko misuse Starfleet shenanigans to promote someone who isn’t ready?  Wait. Do counselors have medical degrees? 

Does Sisko need more grief counselling?    

What works about Ezri and how could they have gone further differentiating the character?  Bee Arthur Dax! 

“This Delta VIP lounge, where I died.”

Why would you fight the lionizing battle of an unjust war perpetrated for empire? 

Gross Quark and Julian is gross. 

Is Garak more normal than he used to be? 

How weird is Sisko again?   Does it take for granted the Dax/Sisko relationship more than we do? 

Oops, Garak broke again.

Hugh loves ear sex stuff. 

Were we lacking more of Worf’s perspective?  How might his story have been milked differently? 

New trope! Worf has a problem? Get the bloodwine, O’brien! 

What happened to cagey Garak?   Does DS9 sacrifice character for story?  Does Andrew Robinson rise above it?   Reptile brain.   

NOT based on an old movie? How about that?   

Odo and Kira:  Creepy old couple. 

Have we said they need women on the writers staff?  How would Shondaland have made this work emotionally? 

James has a “How would we fix it?” to repair the last scene with Dax and Worf? 

How are we approaching DS9 now that we’re older?  How much have we aged or changed  since the podcast began?  Give us a call to let us know what you think about the show.  The robot voice is getting weird.

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Research:  Website coming soon.

Ezri: No stumbling out the gate on this one.

Would we have still preferred some stunt casting?  What was the thinking behind another Nicole De Boer’s casting? 

What does Quark actually contribute? 

Never apologize, even if you’re Worf? 

Has Star Trek and DS9 been missing counselors since TNG? 

What if they’d actually gender shifted Dax? 

Admiral Ham Scully?   

An appreciation of techbobabble. 

Good ol’ desert scenes. James loves ‘em.   How does Brock Peters feel?

Damar drinks kanar. Is he unhappy? (yes).

What is the environmental impact of destroying part of a solar system? Should there be protests?  Mercury? We got no respect for ya. 

Is Admiral Ross not supportive enough of Kira? 

Vic gets replaced with a Mike Hammer refence for this episode.

Quark hears about gagh whilst in a klingon coffee shop. 

Does Sisko’s orb vision of Benny Russell cheapen “Far Beyond the Stars”?

Last Temptation of the Emissary? 

Good pacing and a plan comes together. 

Finally figuring out where Sisko’s specialness comes from. Is he a god, or just the tool of gods? -Sorry, noncorporeal wormhole aliens. 

How did all the plots relate to each other, or did they at all? 

Who dies offscreen? 

Let us know what you think! 917 408 3898

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The new status quo.  Odo … is fine.  

Killing who?   Film-what?  The Go-bots of streaming services.  

Religion again.  How topical!  

STEMBOLTS.  

Worf’s grief.  What’s a Klingon to do?   Not be Liam Neeson, that’s for sure.  

A compliment for Behr.  

A Romulan with personality?  

Obrien with Scocth. Damar! With Kanar.  

Sisko plays Skyrim.  Did Sisko’s Cajun Kitchen change?  

Worf is not a merry man.  Does Vic get better with repetition?  What happened to the reset button?   

The Bechdel Test gets passed again.  Feel like that merits mentioning.  

Just what is it like being around Avery Brooks?  

For the love of Romulans.  Are they more well adjusted than Vulcans?  Boomers, man.  An idea for Discovery.  

A couple of nice minor acting moments.  

I need more pads.  For piddling.  

Nice, believable politics.  

Clams, not potatoes. Point: Wade.  

What do you think about Sisko’s white robes? Is it a thing for anyone?  

The Jackie Brown of season openers.     

Help us make the final season of The RoA one to remember!

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Turns out we line up pretty well.  What did we keep and what got cut? 

What happened to Dax in this season?  Did we keep any Ferengi episodes? 

No Half Measures on serialization.  [Ok, and a few minor knocks on Discovery].

Hypothetical: If you could get rid of the worst episodes of this season if you also had to get rid of “Far Beyond the Stars,” would you make that deal?

How far can unearned confidence take a show? 

How much do we remember going into season 7? 

Give us your own White Albums or tell us what we got wrong about ours

917 408 3898

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Are the pieces rushed into place? And does this episode wrap things up satisfactorially? 

How many of the pieces here are nothing we want to watch? 

[Just a small bit of argumentation]

Did the creators overestimate how invested we were in some of these stories?

What is the big choice Sisko has to make? 

The least anemic thread of this episode! 

Isolating story threads and rushed serialization. 

What kind of hero’s death is walking to church? 

How hamfisted is Dukat shoehorned back into Cardassia’s good graces? 

Is it just to hit religious themes harder? 

What was in the original script for Jadzia?  Did they blow all the budget on a Star Wars space fight?  Is that why Dax got short-changed? 

Manless warfare in the 24th century (and late 90s). 

Was Brooks on melatonin in this ep? 

Muscles or Potatoes?  Vests, vests, vests.   

Nerd Corner for when Sisko passes out on the bridge.    

Real convenient for Dukat to just show up, huh? 

Do all the Dominion scenes go against sense and reason?  A lot of good people on both sides. 

TV and pat solutions to logical problems that fail to satisfy, 

What is the very least effort that Jadzia deserved  for a sendoff?

Is it a shame that the prophets’ “death” is the more consequential? 

But hey, the final season is now set to begin with a big change in the status quo.   

Faith, science, and religion: Should Sisko struggle more with it?  What happens if one of us has a body to bury? 

Let us know what you think:

917 408 3898

and support the show at patreon.com/kickersofelves

A return to A plot/B plot structures. And some adventures in the beta quadrant.

We pretty much liked this episode.  The 500th episode of Star Trek across all its series.

Who’s that voice? 

Kasidy Yates, we missed you (but maybe Sisko didn’t?).

Star Trek finally highlights the bad parts of socialist countries - with Odo’s over reliance on regulations.

How do you know you’re in the Vegan sector? 

A new Bashir? Again?  A character always in the shop. 

Lisa Cusack:  A refreshing interesting character for a guest voice.  Why not do that for other characters? 

A heavy dose of foreshadowing. 

Spoilers: We revealed a certain secret ages ago. 

Preoccupied Sisko LOVES ipads! 

Why do writers write so often about therapy? 

Sidebar: P.T. Anderson and The Master. 

Does the advent of ubiquitous internet have any bearing on how this story developed? 

Ol’ Cavey gets a blue wet makeover. 

That B plot, did it have a twist?  It’s earnestness throws us for a loop. 

“Woah Jeff! We didn’t realize it was this bad!” 

The 285th Rule: Another human cliche. 

How is Odo broken again?  How has he fundamentally changed from the core identity of his character? 

Setting up the pieces of this season and setting up for next episode.  Making loss mean something. 

Is Tom Paris like Julian Bashir? Homer Simpson? 

Poor Harry Kim.    

We're nearly on the same page with this episode. How do you feel?

917 408 3898

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Must O’Brien suffer, or must we?

Are the writers taking other meetings at this point in 1998? 

Is time travel boring?  How many of these portals are there just lying around? 

Is this a typical Star Trek episode or does the family angle make it something else?  Does it being a rework of a TNG idea mean anything? 

The B plot: Written after the fact. 

What does “uninhabited” mean?   Does Molly’s feral-ness make any sense? 

What was the original pitch for what happened to her? 

Why not relocate to the planet since the holosuites are always booked up? 

“This is [Space] Us”

What are the temporal morals that Star Trek episodes expouse but also break every time? 

Should the O’Brien’s  get a dog? 

What are some more “Star Trek” ways to do this story? 

Where’s the Doctor Who prop hiding in this episode?

A sidebar on Kelvins and the Kelvin Universe. 

Does the Federation not have any drugs that could be more helpful for an anxious troubled child?

None of us are big fans of this episode, but some parts of it bother us more than others.

Anything bothering you? Give us a call!

917 408 3898

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This episode, for all its faults… they only get worse with age.

All the great actors that get dragged into this…

Starting off, the episode is bad enough, and the end ain't any better.

How easy is it to compartmentalize and quarantine these bad episodes away from the good ones? 

Comparing ISB to Moffat.  

How do the showrunners stand by this one?  

But what can we say nice about this one? Some of the makeup? 

Addressing a problem with Ferengi society we’ve brought up in earlier episodes. 

What’s it say when a phone bank scene may be the highlight of the episode?  

What did Alexander Siddig do to try and redeem the episode, and did it “ruin” the fun of the episode? 

What happened to medical ethics again? 

We try to wrap our head around viewing this episode as marginalized people instead of 3 straight cis white guys -and fail utterly.  

Are there any ways they could have fixed this episode, that could have opened better story opportunities? 

Just when you think this episode has done enough, bring in a little gay panic. 

Going full Weinstein, even moreso than the cold open. 

Is there a documentary about the problems of this episode and this season? 

Did this episode think itself daring and progressive? 

Where does it stand among the worst Star Trek episodes?  Worse than Threshold, the Voyager slug episode?  

“One of the great classics of Star Trek” . 

The offensive hubris of well meaning white men.  

Are you someone who loves this episode or gives it a 10 out of 10? Well then you have to call the show. Them's the rules . 

917 408 3898 . 

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Cadet Kelly Clarkson?

What starts off looking like a NohJay Ferengi Nagus episode takes a wrong turn and detour into a muddled mess.

Remember Star Trek The Motion Picture? Oh no, we usually keep that talk of certain horrible things to the Hashish and Superiority pod.

Is it the writing or the acting that's the worst culprit in this episode?

How many ways could this have been made better?  How bout we Rashomon this mofo?

Just why is this guy a bad captain?   

Comparing season 6 to season 2.

Let us know what you think about this episode or anything else we talk about! 

917 408 3898

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It's been tumultuous in the back half of season 6.  We hear voicemails from Greg, Warren, Adam, and read some emails.  

Can we get our minds right?

Let us know what you think: 917 408 3898

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We get on a Kim Kattrell tangent. Hugh Crawford does the math.  But wait, it’ll pay off later in the podcast.

Instead of our regular polar opinionsA decidely mixed bag of an episode.

Odo reduced to “the good boyfriend.” Is the Nurse Ratched cadence infectious to other actors? Hey, remember those Pah Wraiths?

Without Mad Men would we have a John Slattery Admiral?  Seems like we’d rather talk things other than this episode.

Why doesn’t Sisko get more political power or utility out of being the emissary?  Is Sisko unrealistically weak amongst the Bajorans?

It's a decidedly mixed bag of an episode. Or is it not? Let us know what you think!

917 408 3898

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First off. What we liked about this. Then… all the rest.

A self aware hologram?  What makes him so special and different from Moriarty? 

Who is the brain genius auteur responsible for this? 

Remember swing?  Is this a boomer episode?

Who shot down the production until they final were able to cast this episode? 

How do the actors feel about the relationship finally kicking off?

What does she see in him?  How much of her side of it is missing?

What are other ways to hook them up? Space drugs?

We wrangle with season 6.  Can we figure out what’s going on? 

How toxic is it to overly romanticize things, such as the past?   A common Star Trek problem? 

Does this predict incel culture?   Shakaar:  Total Chad. 

We take a small break to do a mini Gilmore Girls podcast before wrapping it up.

Are we too tough on Vic? On Odo and Kira? Ira Stephen Behr?  

Give us call and sort us out: 917 408 3898

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Sisko looks straight into the camera and details some dark deeds.

Does this do anything to the dream of the Federation? Is it too good to make any of those complaints?

What IS the Federation based on? We try to lay that down at the beginning.  Are there systems the Fedration offers that make people better?  Was there some Grinch-ian transformation we all went through?

Really though this Deep Space Nine episode is just so well done, so does all that stuff even matter?

How was the original pitch for this? What role did Jake play in the orginal script?  What was the last element added?

Lodge 49, temp services, and that guy you hire under pressure who is maybe not the most reliable.

The 98th Rule of Acquisition! Been a while since we heard one of those.

A cut scene with Dax.

The roles we know Vreenak from. Or that actor anyway.

We have some disagreements over a damaged data rod. James takes Peter David’s side.

That last scene, huh? All the good lines are taken.

The episodes we’ve been talking up the most are over with.  Where do we go from here?

Hate this episode? We insist you call. The rules say so.

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Spoilers! The last 8 minutes of this DS9 ep reveal…

SECTION 31

We spend some time up front elaborating on our issues with the Federation’s clandestine org.

We had the Maquis, but now another threat to the Federation principles.

“Judge Dredd is a part of Star Trek now”

Alexander Siddig’s ceiling. 

Doctors’ conferences, as fancy in the 24th century as 1997, but not the 21st.

Chekov’s shoulder (no not that Chekov).

William Sadler is pretty great.

A retrospective on past Bashir moments; it could have been a clip episode. The show even fixes a past Nerd Corner.

Is there really a spy on Deep Space Nine? Did Section 31 actually suspect Julian of being a Manchurian candidate?  Would it be better if it were a   pure recruitment effort?

James’ neediness as a viewer: Who gets it worse Wade or James’s wife? No contest. Only one has to watch The 100 with him.

What is going on behind the scenes in season 6? How hard is the lack of Robert Hewitt Wolf being felt?

Let us know what you think at 917 408 3898

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Things that make you go hmm. What’s the deal with this episode?   

Kira and Dukat got some things to work out.

We may or may not appreciate the drive to tell this story. We have some disagreements about the implementation.

Time travel shenanigans. What kind of time travel rules are we using here, and is it a problem if they’re not clear?

So many nerd corner questions with the temporal mechanics.

What kind of way to kick off a story is this? How would we change it? What might have been a better way to structure the story?

How numb fisted was the sexual violence and treatment of power structures? Several Potential trigger warnings: Sexual violence. Bad and less bad political metaphors.    

Is it wrong to have tried to do Handmaids tail for a basic cable 1997 audience?

Did Nana Visitor’s input on the ending save this episode or only slightly mitigate the damage?

What is the deal with this season? Ups and downs and differences in opinions.    

Let us know what you think!

917 408 3898

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But first, is this B plot even a plot? What is a satisfying resolution? Opinions are surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) divided.

Terry Ferrell’s own behind the scenes life comes into play as we near the end of the season.

But Worf and Jadzia’s chemistry? It’s pretty great. 

Anti coagulant disruptors: Where do they come up with these kind of ideas? Is there a scifi book it could be from?  

Are there not strict starfleet regulations regarding married couples? Apparently not across the board. This confounds some of us.  Starfleet could learn something from Dunder Mifflin.  

The Sisko scene at the end brings up some of our issues with the Federation. 

Family: Why didn’t this end with Coronas?    

What is the deal with season 6? Is it a confident mess? A good season?  Why does Wade seem to like it so much more than James?

Let us know what you think! 

917 408 3898

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Knives out!

Does a Donnie Brasco plot negate any worth of a mob episode?

James and Wade disagree mightily about the ways one can resolve a third act.  

When mixing genres is it necessary to transcend the classic tropes or is it ok to just do a noir well by it’s own rules? 

When it comes to acting, it’s all a matter of taste, apparently.

Who was the original Bilby?

Does this episode weaken the Orion Syndicate?

How bout Maniac though? Check it out on netflix. 

Wade is reminded of Shadowrun.

Cats from 20 years ago: Where are they now? Oh yeah…

What are all the red herrings in this episode?

Love amongst men, is that the central theme of the episode?

Should this have made being a gangster look more fun? Is that a failure of the episode? 

Do the green skinned aliens have anything to do with the Orion Syndicate? 

How does Rene Echevarria agree with us?

The cat: O’brien’s Sisko’s baseball.

Family: How important is it how we talk about how important they are? 

Netflix execs, we need a Deadwood Actor Playlist option!  

Let us know what you think!

917 408 3898

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Uh oh it’s a tiny ship episode. Think you know we’re going to feel about this episode? The answer just may surprise you!

Is this just what the doct- producer wanted after Far Beyond the Stars? Who wrote Rascals? … Oh.

“This guy gets it”

What “coulda been”s do we have for this episode? A new angle for the alphas. Also what if we ever went back to that.

Alphas are the second race but also there are seconds and elders and is this confusing?

The Seuss-ification of the Jem Hadar.

Remember Star Search? You bet we do!

Where do we rank this episode with other classic Deep Space Nine episodes? 

Michael Scott Vorta. Someone please write that fanfix for us.

What moment was almost in the script that may have killed the mood?

A Tron/Doctor Who set we’ll never see again.

What about the lightness of this episode speak to some of us while others don’t?

Don’t hate us Johnny Dangersously fan community! 

We need a hero!

Not much Odo in this huh? One ok moment. Maybe? 

Let us know what you think! 917 408 3898

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Is this the best Star Trek episode ever made? The best Deep Space Nine?  On our most recent rewatch this episode feels more powerful than ever.

Instead of being a captain on a space station Ben Sisko finds himself wondering if he's actually a 1950s pulp scifi author.

What famous scifi writers are the characters in this episode analogs to?

Just how many ways does the system oppress lower class peoples?

What was the original pitch and how did ISB fix it?

What is the one performance that we sets us of arguing about?

Does the solution Albert gives totally undermine Benny’s story, or preserve some of the artistry? An argument ensues.

What about a proposed end of the series had to do with this episode?

That scene. You know the one. I mean, what about that scene, huh?

How do the 24th century framing sections of the episode actually fit with the the main 1950s story?

How influenced was this influenced by the Feldstein/Orlando EC comic story “Judgement Day”? Down with the Comics Code!

Why doesn’t DS9 do this kind of show all the time? Should they? Could they?

Is this episode as great as we think it is? Disagree? Wow. We need to hear from you then:

917 408 3898

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Wade is fresh off watching the DS9 documentary, “What We Left Behind,” and will brook no condemnation of a good Quark episode.

Star Trek: The Chex Mix of TV.

Is this episode above or below the Mendoza Line? 

How has streaming changed how we expect to be catered to with out televsion? Is there a thinner range of stories and tone that we will accept in our shows, Star Trek included? 

How do we think Rick Berman is doing?

Is there a difference between “high brow” and “light fun”?

Has anyone ever done this kind of thing in shows since?  Can we compare the show to Battlestar Galactica? Is that allowed.

Will the argument be resolved? Are there “good people on both sides”?

Half an hour in: What did this episode look like before extensive rewrites?

Just how well are the Morn in-jokes sold throughout the series?  Is this show lacking in some of the camrederie that was TNG’s strength?

How did the show do by Marc Alan Shephard?

How would James fix this more to his tastes? 

Take a side in the debate!

917 408 3898

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Did the writers screw up by accidentally making Dukat too likable?  Do people need a correction. Wait, people like nazis? Is Marc Alaimo just that good?

Has Sisko been dialed down?

“Some things are complicated and some things you make complicated”

Are these Defiant scenes sleepy?  Wade disagrees with Hugh and James on a few aspects of the episode. Are the issues on the page or in the direction?

Dukat is struggling with his toxic mindset. 

The world is full of conventional villains. (See: Brazil)

Is Dukat as nice a guy as Richard Spencer?

How did this episode start out originally?

Imagine this episodes three years later after 2001.

A cut line had bad tidings for Jake.

Sisko stops seeing some things in shades of grey. Welcome to #theresistence, Ben.

Attachments, Hitler, and kittens.

Check out the Hashish and Superiority Book Club! 

Give us a call! 917 408 3898

Check out the patreon! (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

And talk to your families, folks.

Is this Magnificent Seven or not? The Infinity War of Ferengi episodes? Or is it.. Weekend at Bernies?

But who cares? Iggy Pop is in this one!

Magnificent yucks all around. The most Looney Tunes of episodes yet?

Why is this episode so much fun… for some?

What is that special something that Iggy Pop brings that makes this episode so memorable?

But what would we do differently? What would we change about this episode? Are there other movies we would of pulled from for a Ferengi story than old westerns?

Let us know what you think!

917 408 3898

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and of course patreon.com/kickersofelves 

But no sign of Kai Ratched on Deep Space Nine for this one.  

Potsie! Who unlike Ralph the Mouth and James Cromwell, Hugh did NOT meet one time.  

Why are the augments wards of the state?  

Who are their Cuckoo’s Nest counterparts?  

Why must the nympho be constantly horizontal, Potsie?  

Syndication work: Explaining the Eugenics War.  

We get stuck in a Nerd Corner: Does the technology have convenient gaps? In Star Trek? Say it ain’t so. Why can’t the transporter just fix everything?  

Picking up Damar’s thin soup cues.  

The problems writers make in portraying intelligence and Sherlock Holmes fallacies.  

Madonna and Whore… not exactly the best Women Studies episode.  

Do the writers wish they’d done this with Bashir earlier or is this just a capitulation?  

Let’s talk about Asimov’s Foundation trilogy. You look foolish Nate Silver!  

Turning Julian into a kind of Spock to show limits of certain Star Trek ideologies.  

O’Brien and Bashir banter that works best.  

What does this episode have to do with a good ground game in Wisconsin?  

Is Bashir a KoE blind spot? 

Let us know what you think! 917 408 3898  

and we discuss other topics of interest to you (probably) at the Kickers of Elve Patreon! (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

Bareil is back on Deep Space Nine!  Not quite robo-pope. What words can really describe this episode? Milquetoast.  Stay until the end, it'll be worth it.

What to talk about? Bareil’s gun?  

What does ISB think is this episode’s problem?

Nerd Corner: Who are the gods in the Mirror Universe? Are the prophets trans dimensional?

Nipple Corner: Been there, seen that.

The Eye of Bareil.

Orb appointments.

Episode VIP? Quark.

James and Wade disagree on what makes something "the worst."

Are we too harsh on Resurrection? Let us know! 

917 408 3898

and support us by doing all the stuff every podcast wants you to, like supporting our patreon! patreon.com/kickersofelves

After the regular send off, check out "How we would fix it"

Radiohead is a pretty good band. 

We've come a long way, baby! Hear us heap praises on Terry Farrel and Dax.

Worf and Dax tie the knot. The end destination of a ship?

Sirella has quite the pedigree. From Nemesis Romulan to first Pam’s Mom.

Is this story quaint? How would Dax’s attitude towards the wedding vary today?

What’s this Klingon bachelor party business?

But oh guess we gotta talk about the closet.

What does Ronald D Moore think?

Wade has some affinity for Dax and Worf’s predicament.

Is James an erotic fanfic guy?

What do you think of this? 

917 408 3898

and for more content check out patreon.com/kickersofelves

Previously on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine…

and on, and on...

The battle for the station has kicked off.

A talk on the nature of fascism vs straight gangster.

What is the most problematic part of this story? Is this ending a copout? Does it raise stakes and tension or just thwart everything the characters do?

Why doesn’t the crew respond stronger to the events of the ending?

How bout that link? It’s feels so great, you guys.

Nerd Corner: How do space blockades work?

Oh Ziyal…

This final Dukat scene.

Is this whole arc a collection of half measures, or an impressive step in television?

Give us a call at 917 408 3898 and be featured on the podcast.

and check out all the extra non-star trek thoughts we have on the Kickers of Elves Patreon! (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

In this "Kickers of Elves Special Edition" we talk with author Manu Saadia about Star Trek, "corporate fanfic," and a bevy of additional topics, ranging from fandom fatigue, the fermi paradox, and even the opiod crisis.

Go buy Trekonomics: The Economics of Star Trek!

Less yelling about Odo? Are we getting less or more out of our DS9 than we used to? Hey, but we like this. We promise. Is it not as perfect as we thought?

Lets unpack the goo sex.

A new Bashir? Well he doesn’t do much here.

What Western is this based on?   

Is that Creed from The Office? No. It is not.

Is Odo being catfished? Should this be a sad exit for Odo? Guess which of us thinks the answer is “yes”?

How did they stumble into getting Rom so right?

Weyoun: Is he of a marginalized people? The Jem Hadar?

Good guy Quark works here.  Anyone who says “credit to your race”? He racist.

Ziyal… Oh,   Ziyal.

Angry Nerd Corner, Cardassian Language Version: Debunked!

Worf and Martok make a Sorkin play against Gowron. Imagine a 3 ep arc on that instead of a two minute scene.

Was is satisfying to see Kira beat up Damar? Dukat, victim blamer.

Sisko is of Bajor. He will build a house there. He says. Has everyone come to terms with being The Emissary?

Nog changes shirts, graduates, and not even in a cold open.

Tantric 3 day sex, re-explored.  And dumb pleas for forgiveness. And baseball. Get a chip clip and lets finish it.

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The robot voice is also really into metal and being moody, apparently. And the band Dagon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc2UcDbHuTc

More of the goings on at Deep Space Nine and other starbases are discussed later.

Yell at us by calling 917 408 3898

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TWIGGY -Odo doin it

BUCKY with the Good Hair - on Bashir. Pro Empok Nor.

But some of us would rather talk about Risa.  So lets talk sexual mores in the 24th century.

State of the Best of Both Worlds challenge? Hugh watched Nanette instead.

TWIGGY AGAIN- Boner jams and Frasier. Twincest heebie jeebies.

Hugh, our resident Jurassic World expert. Crighton Corner!

ADAM P NEWTON/Dryvetyme - Soldiers of Empire is pretty great, right? Thanks Jadzia.   Ranks are weird.

ERIC from PA - Children of Time- What if Obrien were written differently? What is the best Star Gate? Roland Emmerich

STEFAN - Empok Bore? Empok Snore? Empok… More?

Would the episode have been better if O’Brien was replaced with Kira?

Fincher Corner!

WHITE ALBUMS!

Dryvetyme- Adam has a fine list.

Tom from Cleveland, in his first white album, cuts it lean!

What do James and Hugh need to watch Discovery? 500/ month on the Patreon and they’ll be forced to!

And finally:  Tom from London, in his first voicemail.

Worf’s tragic backstory is rehashed again! Does Tom have the best analysis?

Think our Worf argument gets heated? Check out the Dune Wars of 2017 on the kickers of elves patreon. patreon.com/kickersofelves

And keep the voicemails coming! We want to hear your voices!

917 408 3898

We have some unusual feelings about this episode.

Rio Grande? Must every Deep Space Nine episode always also be a famous Western?

Sons:

The A Plot.  Worf has a failson. Some of the characterization rings true for us, but we can't agree on how much of a mess this story is. Gabrielle Union as Zizek’s daughter?  Matt Berry Klingon?  

Martok? Well, he is always great.

We Rashoman the third act.

Daughters:

The B Plot. Oh, basically the same Kira plot as last ep, but this time with Ziyal.

What are they doing with Odo? Well, not a lot here. We talk Special Men.

Is Kira wrong in here response to Ziyal at the end? James wants her to have stronger moral clarity.  How should we respond to people who’s parents are moral despots? Things get heated. 

Before we get to the final ranking, some Strek Trek Damar Trivia.

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and give us a call! We want to know if you disagree with Wade or agree with James

917 408 3898!

A Sequel to last episode, but also a sequel to The Ship?

Hope y’all like the Big Lebowski, because for some reason, there’s a lot in this.

James didn’t like the pants tearing scene.  We’ll come back to that.

Dark matter Nerd Corner.

But about the pants.

What have they done with Garak? Lets compare the Wolverine from “back in my day.”

On DS9… Kira gets Huckabeed.  We like the Jake scene.

What DOES Vietnam have to do with anything? Well actually: Something. How might they have done the Vedek event differently? If it were say more “Game of Thrones”?

What have they done with Odo?

For all its strengths, does DS9 ever have all its characters firing on all cylinders?

But wait. 

We need to talk about Keevan.

Again, how does this relate to current events?  And how do the A and B plots contrast to in their approach to extremity?

How is the Jem Hadar 3rd like some of us?

Let’s all be little Kira’s here.

Let us know what you think! 

917 408 3898  

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Go listen to the Clash! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x4JbW6L8BM The Fargo Season 2 soundtrack is pretty good too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeZ0mC0Iqe8

The Dominion War has been waging for three months, DS9 is occupied by the Dominion, and Sisko and his crew have to undergo a dangerous mission... eventually.  

But first: Who is Brandon Tartikoff?  

Cool your butts everybody, we all love this episode. Oh, but don’t think we don’t have things to talk about. Bashir, for instance. We disagree. Go figure.  

Does this once biting political commentary feel out of place in the times we currently live in?  How does it feel to watch DS9 during the Bush years vs the current Hellworld?  

Kira and Odo and Dukat and Weyoun. Games are played.  

Quark and the Lizard Pigs: What’s a story they could have done? Put heroin in their   sandwiches!  

There’s always room for rock n roll pedantry.  

Oh, and speaking of sandwiches: Admiral Ross!  

Hugh has a problem with this episode that’s not this episodes fault.  

Serialization: We’ve come a long way, baby.  

In this modern TV landscape, let’s take a relaxing break to appreciate the psychological euphoria of The Great British Bake Off.  

Oh, and finally the plot in the IMDB description happens.  

Let’s talk about chairs. Lean into it.  

Good ol’ Charlie Reynolds and the Centaur. What kind of name is “Centaur”? Oh. Let’s talk about that too.  

Kira has a #metoo moment. It gets uncomfortable. Are the times intruding on enjoyment of the show?  James grapples on air.  

Before we wrap up: Does the Federation have Christmas?  

Give us a call, check out the Patreon, and do all the things that every other podcast asks you to to!

917 408 3898

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Cutting down a 90s show to the length of modern masterpieces, like The OA[?]…

1st we each go through our White Album for season 5. There is a surprising of overlap, but the differences are divisive.

Laying to rest the problems with “The Worf Scene”

What are the worst episodes of this season?

Which do we disagree the most with IMDB about?

What’s the season’s best episode?

Hugh HATES Eddington.

How would we cast a modern reboot of DS9?

Does Hugh feel any better about Bashir after we finally hit “that one episode”?

Write every season like it’s your last? Agree with our choices? Disagree? Think that The Worf Scene is as dumb as Wade does?

THEN LET US KNOW!

917 408 3898

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Here are some things discussed:

Mine Angry Nerd Corner 1: Why don’t they build starships out of replicators?  Did Jake screw up?  Did he misrepresent his father? Fake News? We have a disagreement.  Sometimes, you just gotta start a war.  Rom:  The smartest guy who doesn’t realize it.  Mine Angry Nerd Corner 2: What keeps the mines replicating? The Matter/Energy equalization problem.  Kira and Odo: Do the characters want to put this off as much as we do? Do the writers? Table it. We’ll get to it later.  Garak/Ziyal: All your headcanons valid.  How sociopathic is Garak?  Lets pat ourselves on the back for this wedding speech.  Can’t. Stop. Referencing.  Windows: Pretty democratic.  Lots of wedding talk in this one.  Lots of plots from the show so far addressed. But what about the dog?  James thinks Jake is dumb.  Look at all those ships!   The third Cardassian that we come to know and love: Damar.   Goodbye Robert Hewitt Wolf.   Do you dare take The Best of Both Worlds/Call to Arms Challenge?  

Give us a call and let us know what you think!

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or check out and support the show at our patreon

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It's the Crying of Lot 48.  

The B plot and the A plot are reversed and we get a sequel to stembolts as big things are happening in the background.  

Baseball Corner.  

Weyoun: That weird guy at church.  

Can Jake and Nog complete all the necessary quests to get their loot and make all the villagers happy?  

Bad Company Corner.  

Science Nerd Corner.  

Beard the lion: An actual phrase!  

How does this episoe line up with Joss Whedon, writing-wise and chronologically?  

Contribute to the conversation on Patreon, or give us a call and be featured on the podcast!  

917 408 3898

patreon.com/kickersofelves

In the lineage of The Doomsday machine, turn out the lights and you got a new location set.

Horror movie meets Lower Decks. Bryan Fuller sold a second story.

3rd acts are tough.

Obrien: Engineer or soldier? Uh. Engineer, obviously.

Give us a call! 

917 408 3898

And check out the patreon if you want extra content or if you want to support the show

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The remaining Maquis have done something stupid and so Ben Sisko takes a runabout to the badlands with his best buddy krull.

Does this mean more arguing about the Maquis?

How bout an argument about the inevibility of war and whether or not its right to just go ahead and let a one happen in the right circumstances?

Why wasn’t this episode more about Sisko being able to do something? Is the twist a cheap copout to a more rewarding story or is the twist the rewarding part?

Have thoughts on the Maquis? Want to set us off on an argument that might take up an entire bonus episode?

Give us a call then!

917 408 3898

Support the show as you see fit! Maybe through the kickers of elves patreon if bonus content is what you're looking for 

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We have a lot of different ideas for how to blow out and follow some of the ideas in this episode.

Time share “LA Swinger” Odo.

Let’s talk about Odo and Kira, with a small sidebar to Sex and The City.

Poor O’Brien. So many Mollys.

How would this have been if stretched to a mulitple episode arc?  If this were a modern TV show how might this have been handled differently?

How do alien genetics and inbreeding work?

Bashir, please don’t do anything untoward with your great great grandaughter.

Where does personhood start when dealing with temporal mechanics?

The Sons of Mogh learn that enemies can be abstract ideas.

Why the reliance on pioneer agricultural civilizations?

Avoiding a pat ending.

IMDB doesn’t like the race stuff.

We go long, so no voicemails this week. Tell your friends about the show!

and give us a call for all your questions and feedback

917 408 3898

We end with some of the fascinating topics we [don't] discuss on the kickers of elves patreon!

patreon.com/kickersofelves

We all liked this one!  What’s ISB’s beef?

Bring on the toxic masculinity! But stay for how much we talk about how great Dax is. But don't be too offended   when James calls Bashir names.

Go out of your way to scold Wade for his poor pronunciation, Klingonese speakers.

“General” Martok… how’s that work in a naval structure where you “captain” a ship?

Klingons: Very smart about their dumb violence.

Imagine if a show really went into depth about how diverse all these Klingon houses are? Gee, imagine if that were an actual thing. 

No time for voicemails, but give us a call!

917 408 3898

and check out the Kickers of Elves patreon for more content

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Love songs and boner jams. Or not. Scratch that. No Andrea Martin in this one, to Wade's chagrin.

Quark visits his mom, could James explain Ferengi weirdness to his dad?

Has DS9 taken a step backward into Episodic television after pulling off successful serialized arcs?

Bouncing from B to A plot and Rules of Acquisition.

Proverbial “Ear massaging” as a relaxing focus technique as internet speeds are getting faster in the 90s: Is there a correllation?

Is there a point in this episode, that makes this and Important Episode for the Ferengi arc of the series?

James is dubious. Are we making allowances for a syndicated scifi show in the 90s? Probably.

Is this really where Quark starts Urkel-ing the show?

Flaws of the Nielson/sweeps model.

James sees flaws in ISB’s critique of Capitalism.

This episode has some flaws in how the climax is resolved.

“Go back into the closet where you belong?” Just what did they mean by that? (probably nothing)

Pew pew pew - Action figures - The End.

No voicemails this week, but we still want to hear from you!

917 408 3898

And check out the Kickers of Elves patreon for more content!

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James and Hugh have some serious trouble getting on board for this story. He’s not really her dad!

Cardassians are like bulldogs when it comes to syndromes.

Ol’ One Arm makes an appearance in the good ol’ cave set.

WEYOUN! And Dominion corporate culture.

Does Dukat dodge the mug? Is the dress blue or yellow?

Hugh hates scenes where they explain the protagonist’s feelings to them.

Elder abuse!

How fun would this episode be if it were all Weyoun?

James and Hugh have some ideas on what would make this episode better.

Is this episode still stuck in an episodic mindset even if it’s kind of a sequel to Second Skin? Is this episode a transitional fossil from previous eras of television?

Who can get us Wallace Shawn before Chapo Trap House does?  Gird your lobes for next week!

Give us a call and let us know what you think about alien boner jams or anything DS9

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Or help us out the best way you can, by sharing the show with your friends or mail carriers

Greg takes us way back to Rapture (1:00) 

If you want to understand the Prophets, understand Prince.  

Avery Brooks acting, and… no we don’t think David Lynch is racist. We have no evidence to think David Lynch is a racist.  

Twiggy! and his season 4 white album. (17:30)  

Hugh’s fav David Lynch is Donald Glover…  

Warren on Bashir and headcanon (21:17) 

Trigger Warning: A Discovery Home Companion Interlude (29:25)  

James reflects on Disco after watching The 100.  

Tom serenades James with a Romulan boner jam and discusses "In Purgatory’s Inferno" (38:05) 

Thanks to Deep Space Nine for the Trump administration? 

Konstantya in an email on her own Romulan boner jam (42:20)   

After some more discussion on sexy aliens… 

Kristin! On Eddington’s negative sex appeal (47:20) 

Sexual chemistries. and brothers? What the heck? 

James sees unusual things in Frasier.  

Give us your thoughts and/or alien boner jams!  Bajorans don't count. Maybe we'll allow Orions  917 408 3898

Support us on Patreon for more non-Star Trek opinions 

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Does this Quark episode take the character anywhere?

Quark and Dax: just like our relationships with our partners.

Ferengi stock market shenanigans.

How can one person keep losing money like this? How can this even be a thing?

Does Star Trek Deep Space Nine have an homage problem?

James is starting to wear thin on status quo Star Trek filler episodes, and a spirited discussion ensues.

Pleasure our ears with your voicemails!

917 408 3898

and if you want to support the show donate on patreon for loads of extra content

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Odo is over Kira?  What makes eyes “bedroom” and does Odo really have that?  The height of Tarantino-ism.  Let’s talk about LARPing. Different from “creative anachronism”?  

What about furries? (23:40)  

The Deed!   Return of James’ nipple corner!   Let’s get to the bottom of changeling/humanoid sex.  

We ruminate on actors, and American History X. 

Voicemails will return at some point. Promise!   Let us know how you feel, especially if you miss the vm segment.  

917 408 3898  

Support the show by telling your friends, or contributing to the Kickers of Elves Patreon!  patreon.com/kickersofelves

But Bashir… we gots opinions.

Hugh’s issues do not reflect a “rejection of Gene’s vision.” He doesn’t like how it was implemented.

A new kind of Special Man?

“Wholeness”?

A reflection on Bashir not being that great of a doctor.

Bashir’s dad is a revelation.

Leeta and Rom have a B plot though.

Should Leeta just tell Rom how she feels and get it over with since he can’t?  Is the objectification of her in this a little… weird? James explains maybe the source of where he reads his innuendo?

Bashir’s dad the chav.

What are the trekonomics of getting an illegal procedure done "out of network" in a post scarcity Federation?

Ohwaitaminute. Just how dumb was six year old Julian again? Have the writers never met children?

How do we sit with the revelations in this episode after this watching? What about where these revelations lead?

Yet again, we don't have any voicemails this week, but we will get to your calls! We want to hear from you!

917 408 3898

and support the show by telling your friends, or going to patreon.com/kickersofelves for more content!

But Worf.

Kitomer re-accords: Where’s president Joe Camel? Odo, also conspicuously absent. Chekov’s Breen, Romulans, and James has a type.

But Worf. Best of Klingons, even with what he’s learned from the Federation. Even when him and Martok recite a Kanye tweet to praise Garak.

Jem’Hadar and Klingons; White Trash and Donald Trump. Bashir gets a stembolt reference. The gangs all here, every power in the Alpha Quadrant.

A couple small nerd corners.

Is this a point where the show pivots to being something new?

No voicemails this week either, but we still promise that we will make use of them so send em in!

917 408 3898 let us know about your One Direction fic.  And check out the Kickers of Elves patreon for all our other assorted opinions

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We get a little ahead and confused about what’s in this episode and the next. The dangers of explaining a characters past, i.e. the Wolverine Problem.

No voicemails. But we have a proposition re: “hate money” 

Support the show at patreon.com/kickersofelves

And give us a call! Seriously we'll get back to your voicemails soon!

917 408 3898

Our beloved Peter Allen Fields returns!

Sisko is angry!

Who breaks bad in this episode?

The ethics of escalation. 

Oh, the Victor Hugo. Should Star Trek hold their tongue before throwing shade at the writing of female characters?

"Not enough!"

A Civil War reference from James.

No voicemails this week, but stick around til the end for some details on what might get James and Hugh to watch Season 2 of Discovery

"My Favorite Mutiny" by The Coup

Give us a call and let us know your thoughts!

917 408 3898

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A tidbit blows our minds and bums us out.

Odo has a bad back- A digression on mattresses.

Bajoran birthing practices… are odd.

GONG.

in Voicemails (45:37)

PlutoBurns is bored by The Ascent.  Were there more interesting stories missed in that story, perhaps a courtroom drama?  Roddenberry rules and storytelling discussed once again. What about Dogma 95?

Give us a call and tell us your own feelings

917 408 3898 

And support the show at patreon.com/kickersofelves

Kira's friends are being murdered, but by who? “The Prophets will take care of him”… Will they? Worf is brings the light fun to the episode for once. He knows many things. Where’s Shakaar while folks from the Shakaar resistance are being killed? Sisko ain’t got patience for Worf. Just how much technical know how does it take to press shirts for Cardassia? Silence of the Lamb-ing was very fashionable at the time.

Are these the best of the doldrums of any season of DS9 to date?

Voicemails (43:30)

Stefan calls to tell us about an episode near universally derided bye everyone but Hugh and James, and Wade has to reiterate just why he thinks that Worf scene on Risa was so bad.

Have your own Risa or Worf opinions? Give us a call!

917 408 3898

and if you want to support the show and hear our thoughts on other scifi and television, check out the Kickers of Elves patreon 

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But of course the episode has to end with some classic Star Trek "right to die" questions.

in voicemails (45:07)

John from PA gets us talking about Star Wars without even asking you to contribute to our patreon.

Alex from Minneapolis sets the record straight about Ray Wise's Star Trek appearance.

And somehow we get talking about kratom?

Give us your calls! 

917 408 3898

and check out that patreon at patreon.com/kickersofelves

But first Nog returns! We cover the B plot and ask the question: is Jake Sisko the Rory Gilmore of DS9?  

What is Nog doing back? Does Starfleet send away their unwanted cadets?  

James has some rap references to make and TOS references to point out.  

Odo’s porn habits.  Talk to us about Vulcan Love Slave.  

Love and hate. Quark and Odo style.  

But what if Odo had a different kind of story bout being humanoid?  

Voicemails (39:00):  

Kate on "...Nor battle to the strong."  

Tom from Cleveland has some thoughts on "Let He Who is Without Sin..."

Expect more calls about Risa going forward!

On the way back from an occupation convention Odo, Sisko, Dax, and Garak all get Quantum Leaped back 9 years to before Odo was chief of security, and Kurtwood Smith held sway.  Things start getting all wibbly wobbledy with the timeline and reality and just what exactly is going on here?  

We're divided on the quality of this one, even if we aver that season 5 is still going strong overall.  

Hold on after the rewatch meter IMDB ratings, where we once again ask the question, "How would we fix this?"  

(47:10) We have the return of your voicemails!  

These are all on Trials and Tribble-ations, and for the sensitive among you, there may have some Discovery talk:

Kristin on Discovery and trials.   We talk about our formative days watching TAS, the Monkees and Lancelot Link, secret chimp.  Love of the lore and execution.   Greg from NC has the nerd corner solution to our McCoy scene discussion.   BuckyWTGoodHair on Disco’s appeal to nostalgia.   Make the show that you want to see.  

And we end with American Gods, and the kind of thing you may have come to expect from us.  

Send your complaints to:

917 408 3898  

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Worf is the worst boyfriend. Why is Dax with him again?

Is this… waitaminute... a good episode?

Bild Lilli horgons. Is Risa a planet of sex workers? Planet Vegas? Without Capitalism? Anarchist Vegas?

Vanessa Williams guest stars as the woman who killed Curzon.

Now. Let us objectify Bashir:  A different bodytype for a different era.

Leeta makes Quark and Julian do a double take (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCOSejS1SSY)

Nog and Ted Cruz’s internet habits.

Gotta be a secure man to be with Dax.

That Worf scene. We have opinions.

Things suddenly get serious, but ok not that serious. 

Sorry for the lack of Voicemails again this week. We got way too excited talking about the time Dave Mathews guest starred in an episode of House.  But give us your calls! We promise we want to hear them.

917 408 3898

And support Kickers of Elves on patreon at patreon.com/kickersofelves

No voicemails this week, as we really overdid the nerd-cornering in this episode.

We still want to hear from you though! Promise we'll get back to voicemails soon.

917 408 3898

And of course you can always support us on Patreon at Patreon.com/kickersofelves

We still want to hear from you though!

917 408 3898

and support the podcast and all the other podcasts we do by being a patron! patreon.com/kickersofelves

In voicemails (47:05): 

Season 4 White Albums! From Eric, Stefan, and Adam.

Give us yours, or let us know what you think about DS9

917 408 3898

And to support the show check out the Kickers of Elves Patreon (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

Things that have been building up for many episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine come to a head. Grilka from House of Quark returns. Horniness abounds.

James' favorite B plot. Hugh is uncomfortable. Wade wrote down a lot of Klingon but contains himself.

Farce fulfilled finally.

Science fiction full circle with Cyrano.

Of course we get into certain sexual anatomy questions…

The Sam and Diane Issue.

The return of Voicemails! (59:13)

Paul from Ireland has more thoughts on the Maquis.

Are the best episodes of Deep Space Nine on the station or off of it? Forgive us for the lack of voicemails this week. Give us call if you're frustrated with us! 917 408 3898

and if you want to support the show and see some of what has kept us so busy check out the kickers of elves Patreon and Much A-Dune About Nothing at patreon.com/kickersofelves

After the season 4 finale Sisko has to go undercover.  Sisko, Obrien, and Odo get into various degrees of character and Michael Dorn gets to laugh at everyone for experiencing what he gets to deal with every day of shooting.  Which actor got out of this due to a latex allergy? Who was the most miserable, Brooks or Meaney?  How much fun are Martok and Gowron?

Voicemails (46:47)

Eric finds new ways to dislike The Muse that we never even considered.

Bucky likes the Quickening.

And a new listener has us appreciating strong female characters and reminding us how we felt about some of these characters in the 90s before our more recent re-watches. Thanks Poppy! 

Let us know what you think by giving us a call!

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And if you want to support the show -and get access to our Dune podcast Much A-Dune About Nothing- Why not support us on Patreon? patreon.com/kickersofelves

Season 4 complete! Can we narrow down this fantastic 26 episode season of television into a streamlined 12 episode run, similar to more recent "prestige" television?  We've done it for every season so far; is season 4 easier or more difficult than we imagined it would be?

What criteria does each of us use? Will vital episodes be cast aside? Will ire be stoked?

Near the end of the podcast we talk about book adaptations and other issues regarding recent television.

In voicemails (48:10), it's a Twiggyflow Trifecta!

Give us a call to let us know what you think and give us your own "White Album" cuts of Star Trek Deep Space Nine.

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And check out A Discovery Home Companion on itunes or check out our Patron only podcast Much A-Dune About Nothing on the Kickers of Elves Patreon. (patreon.com/kickersofelves) 

There's a lot of just hanging out in this episode that is also very consequential to the story of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.  Sure, Big Things Happen, but the Ops crew still has time to joke about Kira's pregnant sneezing, Miles' being laughed at in his own home, and Garak's time as a murderous gardener.

And being the very much adult and grown up podcast hosts that we are, we spend some time of our own hypothesizing on just what kind of equipment a transformed Odo is packing.

AND A RETURN TO VOICEMAILS (48:28)

On For the Cause and the Maquis: Greg from North Carolina gives us a call to remind James that he is wrong. Tom from Cleveland compares the Maquis to petulant children.

Make your own contributions to the show by calling 917 408 3898

And check out our ongoing podcast series Much A-Dune About Nothing by supporting Kickers of Elves on patreon! (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

But first, the B plot. What is Obrien’s hook? Does the Kira pregnancy work in this episode beyond being an interesting fix for a production problem? Just how are things going to develop with the O'briens and Kira?

Back in the A plot, there's some disagreement over whether this is a high quality Ferengi episode.  Is this an important point in the Ferengi arc of the series, or an episode where Quark makes a no-brainer decision?

In the end, we stumble into a Nerd Corner

We go long on this one! 

Give us your feedback to be featured in a later episode!

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Support us on Patreon for tons of extra content and updates to our Dune miniseries.

patreon.com/kickersofelves

Kickers of Elves will be exploring Frank Herbert's scifi epic, Dune. What makes the world of Arrakis endure for scifi fans? Why is the book such a "white whale" to adapt for filmmakers?

This limited series podcast will begin with the text itself, and progress through multiple "failed" interpretations, from Jodorowsky, to Lynch, to the SiFi miniseries, and finally to what we might expect from Denis Villeneuve, director of Arrival and Blade Runner 2049.

In this short introduction however, we'll address our own personal histories with Arrakis, whether we've previously read the book(s), or never even seen the infamous David Lynch movie.

Hear more of this multi-part series by becoming a "Friend of Sisko" at Patreon.com/kickersofelves

Spoiler: Hugh HATES it.

They Shoot Bashir’s Don’t They?   Deadwood!

Just how many Julian reboots are we gonna get?   Early mocap.   And James has some remarks on pregnancy…  

plust more!

Voicmails! (48:44)

Kristin from Toronto has some thoughts on Outlander  and  BuckyWTGoodHair has a few calls about the Mirror Uninverse.

Let us know what YOU think by giving us a call at 917 408 3898

and check out our patreon page to see what you get by supporting us!   Stay tuned for that Dune podcast we mentioned.

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After chasing off some Breen and hanging out in the lunchroom, SH#! gets real at the station when some Jem'Hadar asplode a pylon.  No time for mourning though, as everyone minus Bashir and Kira take chase into the gamma quadrant, meet a dream team of 90s B movie actors, and remind us all about that Dominion thing.  

Details and worldbuilding abound. Characters get some hangout time while keeping the plot moving. OH, yes, and we finally meet our favorite Voorta [minus Iggy Pop], Weyoun!

Klingons and Jem'Hadar rivalry is stoked. Some TNG callbacks are made. And plot points for the future are left out of the final cut. "You can't get a time portal without getting a timeshare spiel from a space god."

And some Voicemails! (48:53)

New caller John from Pennsylvania wonders if maybe Lwaxana episodes are more fun for kids.  We remark on what we maybe shouldn't revisit from our childhoods.

Warren, 10rant, from Seattle has some questions about why Lwaxana doesn't go to see her flagship living daughter for help, and we get into some costume questions.

Give us a call yourself at 917 408 3898!

And check out our patreon for other content at patreon.com/kickersofelves

But first! Wade has a nontraditional perspective on the B plot with Garak and Ziyal. 

Sisko and Kasidy hit some bumps in their relationship, even as Jake learns about biscotti.

The morallity and merit of the Maquis are discussed ad nauseum. Are the maquis and the federation a bad breakup? Who’s the good guy here?  Does anyone make a good case for Federation separatists in this episode?  What does Voyager fail to do with them?

We go long in this one so no voicemails this week, but that doesn't mean we don't want to hear from you!

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And check out (and maybe support) us on patreon for access to out discord server and hours of other audio content.

patreon.com/kickersofelves

Marky Mark, we have words for you.

Space Vampires? Is this… Babylon 5?

We talk about the craft of writing, and how it pertains to the subject and content of this episode.

Masters of the Universe? Oh, yes.

What good CAN we say about this episode? Is this part of a 3 episode Odo arc?

Mellodrama? Oh, how bout we talk about Outlander? That’s supposed to be a good show.

Is this episode about Odo and Kira at all, or is it just a plain ol’ bad episode about Odo and Lwaxana?

But OH, the muse plot!

We're a little distracted.  Jake likes older women. He meets one who likes to rub orange cheese out of his brain as he writes books... Oh, we have a few things to say.

In Voicemails! (48:50)

Stefan thinks Kurn should have killed himself. 

We get political and talk about the shows we want in dark times, Tim Allen, and Reagan, and... the AIDS crisis? How did we get here?

Give us a call! 

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And support what we do at patreon.com/kickersofelves

Topics we move to to talk about other than the mirror universe:  Liz Phair. The Office. Mash.  Our fav film, Magnolia. The number 47.

Make it so!

In Voicemails! (50:50) 

We hear from Twiggy on Rules of Engagement, among other things..

Give us a call so we can hear from you at 

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And check out all the extra content we have by supporting us on patreon.

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Star Trek tackled some serious issues, in an era before we were all forced to learn the term PTSD.

But, first don’t you want to hear us argue the difference between implanted memories and a simulation on a scifi future show?  Have you missed Nerd Corner?

It’s hard to make jokes about such a serious well done episode! How bout them healthcare plans in the future? Jake helps O’Brien with his tools.

Did everyone screw up by not sending Miles back to Ireland?

And what of Roddenberry’s vision? Does this preserve Star Trek’s “evolved humanity” or perfect it?

As we get older… do we have less desire to rewatch upsetting media?

Skipping out on voicemails this week. This episode drained us.

But still, give us a call! 917 408 3898

And support us on patreon, where there might be a few extra minutes of us arguing over simulations vs implants, but also so much more

patreon.com/kickersofelves 

These leftovers taste great with a little O’bay on them!

Is this a run of the mill episode? Have we seen this before?

It’s another episode where we get to explore a character by putting them on trial!  And another episode about Worf’s conflict with his Klingon and Federation background. 

Featuring Ron Canada, the voice of Gold Peak Ice Tea, as Evil Klingon Lawyer.

And a great final Sisko scene we can’t wait to get to.

In voicemails (56:00) we talk religion!

Tom from Cleveland needs to vent about the Bajorans

Greg from North Carolina also has some thoughts on Bajoran religion

Give us a call and let us know what YOU think!

917 408 3898

Support the show on patreon! (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

BUT… is this the most consequential episode yet for the arc of the series?

Faith (or lack thereof) is discussed!  

Fletch's boss comes out of the the wormhole and does Sisko a favor by taking over as the emissary.  Kira is surprisingly ok and doesn't question this, til not-quite-Borat starts bringing back the Bajoran caste system and tells her to quit her job and start making birds.  This regression into alt-right ideology sets Sisko down a path where he has to confront what it means to be a religious figure, and even buy into it a little bit more.

No time for voicemails this week, but give us a call and let us know what you think!

917 408 3898

And check out our patreon at patreon.com/kickersofelves for more content!

Rom starts a union! Lefty Propaganda! 

We spend a bit at the top knocking out Worf's B plot before diving into Marx, Sean O'Brien, and Rom's tranformation from exploited worker to strong union leader. Putting politics aside, this is also a pretty good story about Rom finding himself when not under the shadow of his brother.  The episode that really sets Rom's story in motion, and sets the stage for relationships to come...  

What are some our feelings on unions in the real world? We'll get into some of that and what gets us grabbing for our pitchforks, but mostly this is about Rom.  "Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains."  Oh, and Jeffrey Combs shows up!

And in the feedback segment:  Franklyn from Jax and just what exactly happened to the robot voice lately?

Music: Billy Bragg, "Power in a Union"

And give us your feedback for future segments on the show!

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and check out the patreon (patreon.com/kickersofelves)

...Oh wait this one is a bit of a downer

Worf and Jadzia are busy with some foreplay when Worf's brother Kurn shows up destitute and wanting some Mauk-to'Vor.  Being the loving brother that he is, Worf readily agrees to do some murder.  Yep this one gets heavy!  Relations familial and professional are strained as Worf once again has to decide where his Klingon-ness ends and his Federation beliefs begin.  Just how problematic is the third act?  Let the arguing over moral principles and relativism begin!  And you know we can turn this around to reflect on just what kind of doctor Julian Bashir is.

And we bring back an old favorite from the early days of the podcast: How would we fix this?

We're taking a week off from voicemails this week! Check out A Discovery Home Companion to hear from a few regualr callers, and keep telling us what you think about Star Trek: Deep Space Nine!

917 408 3898

And check out all the bonus material and conversation on Star Trek and more by supporting us at our patreon! patreon.com/kickersofelves

This time the advances are unwanted.  Kira has to go to some conference that her boyfriend convinced her to go to, but a shamed and fallen Dukat shows up to take her aboard his junky spaceship.  He gets a taste of the terrorist lifestyle, and Kira has to decide if she's left that all behind her or not (spoilers: she mostly has).   But also! We get the first appearance of Damar! Who doesn't actually do a whole lot cept sit on the bridge and maybe talk to Ziyal off screen a few times.

In Voicemails (1:01:27) Greg has some more thoughts about about Our Man Bashir and we talk what "checklist" episodes we could take or leave.

Give us a call and be featured on the podcast!

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And check out our patreon for more audio content, and where we've recently been having a lot of fun with our patron only discord server

patreon.com/kickersofelves

Just how great is René Auberjonois? Pretty great.   Just what does one do with an Odo... when in a relationship? In voicemails (1:04:20)

Both Warren (@10rant) and Adam P. Newton (@dryvetyme) have more to say about the holodeck and Our Man Bashir

We've moved to a new release day to accomodate A Discovery Home Companion.  Look for the ROA on Wednesdays while the newest Star Trek show airs!

And give us a call 917 408 3898

or check out the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/kickersofelves

Voicemail (56:00) 

Kate has some great feedback on Hippocratic Oath!

And check out the new patreon for the show! Get in on some extra stuff (https://www.patreon.com/kickersofelves)

And give us a call!

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And in Voicemails! (52:30)   It's all about the holodeck.   FAIR WARNING: We earn that explicit tag in this one.   Twiggy and Kristin from Toronto leave messages on Our Man Bashir, and we go into excruciating detail on holosuite hygiene, technology, and sexual ethics of the future.   

Have thoughts of your own? Predictions for Star Trek: Discovery? Let us have em!  

917 408 3898

It's the Bashir episode you've either been waiting for or dreading! Transporter mishaps and holodeck episodes: Star Trek standbys. The Ops crew has their bodies stuck in Quark's holodeck and their minds bit torrented throught the station.  It's up to cheesy superspy Julian and his legit-spy companion Garak to save them. Is there some worldbuilding and, daresay, some character work built into this episode?  Well, we have opinions.  James comes out and admits his feelings on all James Bond, not just Star Trek parody episodes.

Who is Wade's favorite fascist novelist?

We have LOTS of consideration of the ethics of the holodeck and sex work. "For all your teledildonic needs"

but wait! Hugh… compliments Bashir’s acting?!

Voicemails! (46:18) BuckyWTgoodHair lets us know why he thinks maybe Rejoined has aged the way it has.

Eric calls, and points out how in Rejoined we reversed engineered an alien villain from a series of shows we never actually saw. Though we did all see the Stargate movie.

Give us a call and let us know what you think! And check out A Discovery Home Companion if you haven't yet!

917 408 3898

Worf gets to go on an adventure with a Dahar master, because we all know how big a deal that is, right? Like the stories Kor tells in Quarks, maybe the story doesn't quite match up to how we remember it later.

Klingon lore explored! Kinda. Will this episode have any relevance when Star Trek Discovery launches? Will we reference it on A Discovery Home Companion? We get mention of the Hurq and Kahless and Molor, but then it all devolves into people yelling in a cave about petty bs.  Just how valuable is this ancient batleth?  Does it have any special powers?  Who knows?! Well, we do. Listen to the podcast to find out just what we think

In voicemails (42:00) we go back in time to revisit the Visitor again.  Stefan from the Netherlands talks about soundtracks, and Tim from Northern California defends technobabble.

Give us a call and vent us your thoughts! 917 408 3898

Nog has a reverse bar mitzvah, giving away old Star Trek costumes, and Quark recieves a ship from his shifty cousin.  Shenanigans ensue and we get to hear some Ferengi as it is spoke.

Wade wrote down a lot of Ferengi.

Do we like this episode? Is it a good episode, but perhaps not to everyones tastes?

47:40 We go back to cover some a voicemail from Kristin. More about Jake Sisko, History's Greatest Monster.

Oh, and maybe check out A Discovery Home Companion

917 408 3898

It's a pretty good by the books Star Trek episode. The Defiant is under attack, and everybody from DS9 gets paired with a buddy to work on his or her character beats.

Voicemail 51:30 @BuckyWTGoodHair calls and talks "Worf NO" and "Hippocratic Oath"

Give us a call at 917 408 3898 and have your voice heard!

But first some Magnolia subtweeting and a little more business up front.

Other topics discussed:

Quark doesn’t understand magic tricks.

Is this gay, or just aliens being complicated (hint: it's both)

Trill worldbuilding and rules. Why does the Reassociation taboo make sense?  And suddenly we have an idea for an amazing villain species

Trek fans, more conservative than twitter would have you believe?

The most on screen chemistry since we last saw Out of Sight.

Why doesn’t history give this episode its due?

History corner on gay representation in television.

“Everybody brings their personal bull$#!t

We go long, but end with big news for the podcast!

We REALLY want to know what folks think of this episode! 917 408 3898