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    <title>RBMS STREAMing Podcast</title>
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    <description>Join the River Basin Management Society STREAMing Podcast for the latest in Integrated Catchment Management content while we talk to our community of practitioners, enthusiasts, advocates and passionate individuals from across Australia and abroad. 

Listen in as we hear about the latest research, projects and stories from the ground, diving into the people and places that matter to us, covering a variety of topics in the environmental, social, cultural, political and associated sciences and disciplines.

Music credit to Jordan Whitmore
Logo Artwork by Janice Taylor and Jessica Holding</description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:08:13 +1000</pubDate>
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    <language>en</language>
    <spotify:countryOfOrigin>au</spotify:countryOfOrigin>
    <copyright>Copyright 2020 All rights reserved.</copyright>
    <category>Science:Nature</category>
    <ttl>1440</ttl>
    <itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type>
          <itunes:summary></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
	<itunes:category text="Science">
		<itunes:category text="Nature" />
	</itunes:category>
<itunes:category text="Government" />
<itunes:category text="Society &amp; Culture" />
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    <item>
        <title>Episode 9 - Urban billabong restoration benefits from Traditional Owner involvement and flooding in the Birrarung (Yarra River) with Sarah Gaskill</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 9 - Urban billabong restoration benefits from Traditional Owner involvement and flooding in the Birrarung (Yarra River) with Sarah Gaskill</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-9-urban-billabong-restoration-benefits-from-traditional-owner-involvement-and-flooding-in-the-birrarung-yarra-river-with-sarah-gaskill/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-9-urban-billabong-restoration-benefits-from-traditional-owner-involvement-and-flooding-in-the-birrarung-yarra-river-with-sarah-gaskill/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:08:13 +1000</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In this episode we speak with Melbourne Water's Sarah Gaskill about Urban Billabong restoration benefits from Traditional owner involvement and flooding in the Birrarung (Yarra River). Sarah is a wausie, a welsh aussie, with almost 30 years' experience in natural resource management having worked in both the UK and Australia.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this episode we speak with Melbourne Water's Sarah Gaskill about Urban Billabong restoration benefits from Traditional owner involvement and flooding in the Birrarung (Yarra River). Sarah is a wausie, a welsh aussie, with almost 30 years' experience in natural resource management having worked in both the UK and Australia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
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        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In this episode we speak with Melbourne Water's Sarah Gaskill about Urban Billabong restoration benefits from Traditional owner involvement and flooding in the Birrarung (Yarra River). Sarah is a wausie, a welsh aussie, with almost 30 years' experience in natural resource management having worked in both the UK and Australia.]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>1848</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>10</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 8 - How can Traditional knowledge influence water management for the greater protection of the water landscape with Bradley Moggridge</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 8 - How can Traditional knowledge influence water management for the greater protection of the water landscape with Bradley Moggridge</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-8-how-can-traditional-knowledge-influence-water-management-for-the-greater-protection-of-the-water-landscape-with-bradley-moggridge/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-8-how-can-traditional-knowledge-influence-water-management-for-the-greater-protection-of-the-water-landscape-with-bradley-moggridge/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Sun, 04 Jun 2023 15:26:18 +1000</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In today's episode we are privileged to get to know and speak to one of the RBMS cultural mentors, Associate Professor Bradley Moggridge, a proud Murri man from the Kamilaroi nation and researcher in Indigenous water science from the University of Canberra on How can Traditional knowledge influence water management for the great protection of the water landscapes.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today's episode we are privileged to get to know and speak to one of the RBMS cultural mentors, Associate Professor Bradley Moggridge, a proud Murri man from the Kamilaroi nation and researcher in Indigenous water science from the University of Canberra on How can Traditional knowledge influence water management for the great protection of the water landscapes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
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        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In today's episode we are privileged to get to know and speak to one of the RBMS cultural mentors, Associate Professor Bradley Moggridge, a proud Murri man from the Kamilaroi nation and researcher in Indigenous water science from the University of Canberra on How can Traditional knowledge influence water management for the great protection of the water landscapes.]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>2910</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>9</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 7 - Water is the new Gold - the future of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 7 - Water is the new Gold - the future of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/water-is-the-new-gold-the-future-of-the-martuwarra-fitzroy-river/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/water-is-the-new-gold-the-future-of-the-martuwarra-fitzroy-river/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2022 15:00:11 +1100</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>Last year I had the privilege to speak with Dr Anne Poelina about the Martuwarra Fitzroy River, it’s future with looming water resource development, the need for a collective governance model and the traditional owner established Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council (MFRC) who are advocating for a collaborative approach and an inclusive water governance model and catchment management plan to maintain the spiritual, cultural and environmental health of the catchment.  </p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last year I had the privilege to speak with Dr Anne Poelina about the Martuwarra Fitzroy River, it’s future with looming water resource development, the need for a collective governance model and the traditional owner established Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council (MFRC) who are advocating for a collaborative approach and an inclusive water governance model and catchment management plan to maintain the spiritual, cultural and environmental health of the catchment.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
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        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[Last year I had the privilege to speak with Dr Anne Poelina about the Martuwarra Fitzroy River, it’s future with looming water resource development, the need for a collective governance model and the traditional owner established Martuwarra Fitzroy River Council (MFRC) who are advocating for a collaborative approach and an inclusive water governance model and catchment management plan to maintain the spiritual, cultural and environmental health of the catchment.  ]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>3316</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>8</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
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    <item>
        <title>Episode 6 - Detecting Nature’s Fingerprint using eDNA with Helen Barclay</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 6 - Detecting Nature’s Fingerprint using eDNA with Helen Barclay</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/detecting-nature-s-fingerprint-using-edna-with-helen-barclay/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/detecting-nature-s-fingerprint-using-edna-with-helen-barclay/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2022 09:20:35 +1100</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In today’s episode we speak to EnviroDNA’s Managing Director - Helen Barclay. EnviroDNA works with organisations to transform how they gather data on wildlife and biodiversity, so they can make improved environmental management decisions. Using eDNA services, their clients are detecting native and invasive species with greater ease and sensitivity, as well as generating broad scale biodiversity data that was not previously possible. eDNA has also proven to be an innovative citizen science tool, with designed eDNA sampling methods simple enough for the non-expert to implement, meaning community members can undertake it themselves. </p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today’s episode we speak to EnviroDNA’s Managing Director - Helen Barclay. EnviroDNA works with organisations to transform how they gather data on wildlife and biodiversity, so they can make improved environmental management decisions. Using eDNA services, their clients are detecting native and invasive species with greater ease and sensitivity, as well as generating broad scale biodiversity data that was not previously possible. eDNA has also proven to be an innovative citizen science tool, with designed eDNA sampling methods simple enough for the non-expert to implement, meaning community members can undertake it themselves. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
        <enclosure url="https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/8ugvfd/Ep_7_eDNA_with_Helen_Barclay802qu.mp3" length="43830525" type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In today’s episode we speak to EnviroDNA’s Managing Director - Helen Barclay. EnviroDNA works with organisations to transform how they gather data on wildlife and biodiversity, so they can make improved environmental management decisions. Using eDNA services, their clients are detecting native and invasive species with greater ease and sensitivity, as well as generating broad scale biodiversity data that was not previously possible. eDNA has also proven to be an innovative citizen science tool, with designed eDNA sampling methods simple enough for the non-expert to implement, meaning community members can undertake it themselves. ]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>2745</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>7</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 5 - An Eel good story - tracking eels on the journey of a lifetime with Wayne Koster</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 5 - An Eel good story - tracking eels on the journey of a lifetime with Wayne Koster</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/an-eel-good-story-tracking-eels-on-the-journey-of-a-lifetime/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/an-eel-good-story-tracking-eels-on-the-journey-of-a-lifetime/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2021 17:03:16 +1000</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In today’s episode we speak to Wayne Koster from the Arthur Rylah Institute about tracking two species of anguillid eels found in Victoria using innovative technology and patience. From the arduous fieldwork required to tag an eel to the information uncovered throughout the incredible freshwater to marine journey up to 3,000km. We discuss their importance for Victoria’s biodiversity, commercial and recreational fisheries and significant cultural values to Traditional Owners.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today’s episode we speak to Wayne Koster from the Arthur Rylah Institute about tracking two species of anguillid eels found in Victoria using innovative technology and patience. From the arduous fieldwork required to tag an eel to the information uncovered throughout the incredible freshwater to marine journey up to 3,000km. We discuss their importance for Victoria’s biodiversity, commercial and recreational fisheries and significant cultural values to Traditional Owners.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
        <enclosure url="https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/yiabk3/RBMS_Podcast_Episode_5_with_Wayne_Kosterb2xm4.mp3" length="31034377" type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In today’s episode we speak to Wayne Koster from the Arthur Rylah Institute about tracking two species of anguillid eels found in Victoria using innovative technology and patience. From the arduous fieldwork required to tag an eel to the information uncovered throughout the incredible freshwater to marine journey up to 3,000km. We discuss their importance for Victoria’s biodiversity, commercial and recreational fisheries and significant cultural values to Traditional Owners.]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>1939</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>6</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 4 with Jarod Lyon - An update on the Bushfire recovery – how are our aquatic species fairing</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 4 with Jarod Lyon - An update on the Bushfire recovery – how are our aquatic species fairing</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-4-with-jarod-lyon-providing-an-update-on-the-bushfire-response-and-recovery-%e2%80%93-how-are-our-aquatic-species-fairing/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-4-with-jarod-lyon-providing-an-update-on-the-bushfire-response-and-recovery-%e2%80%93-how-are-our-aquatic-species-fairing/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2021 00:14:40 +1000</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In today's episode, we catch up with Jarod Lyon from the Arthur Rylah Institute to look at how aquatic species are fairing post the 2019/20 bushfires, the impacts of data limitations on species management, protection and recovery; and learn about the ins and outs of aquatic rescues and what’s next as we enter phase 2 of the bushfire recovery actions. Further resources are located on the RBMS website.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In today's episode, we catch up with Jarod Lyon from the Arthur Rylah Institute to look at how aquatic species are fairing post the 2019/20 bushfires, the impacts of data limitations on species management, protection and recovery; and learn about the ins and outs of aquatic rescues and what’s next as we enter phase 2 of the bushfire recovery actions. Further resources are located on the RBMS website.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
        <enclosure url="https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/m4zx5f/RBMS_Podcast_Episode_4_with_Jarod_Lyon_ARI197a55.mp3" length="47822961" type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In today's episode, we catch up with Jarod Lyon from the Arthur Rylah Institute to look at how aquatic species are fairing post the 2019/20 bushfires, the impacts of data limitations on species management, protection and recovery; and learn about the ins and outs of aquatic rescues and what’s next as we enter phase 2 of the bushfire recovery actions. Further resources are located on the RBMS website.]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>2988</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>5</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 3 with Keith Ward - What partnerships, data and passion can teach us about protecting and restoring wetlands</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 3 with Keith Ward - What partnerships, data and passion can teach us about protecting and restoring wetlands</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-3-with-keith-ward-what-partnerships-data-and-passion-can-teach-us-about-protecting-and-restoring-wetlands/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-3-with-keith-ward-what-partnerships-data-and-passion-can-teach-us-about-protecting-and-restoring-wetlands/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:57:19 +1100</pubDate>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">rbmsau.podbean.com/b29c35f0-f397-39d0-88a2-566169c44fd6</guid>
                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In this episode with Keith Ward, a senior wetland ecologist with over 30 years of experience working within the RAMSAR listed Barmah National Park, we take a look at some of the factors around wetland biodiversity and decline, the importance and need for monitoring, research and data and the intricacies of managing an ecosystem with multiple interested parties. </p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this episode with Keith Ward, a senior wetland ecologist with over 30 years of experience working within the RAMSAR listed Barmah National Park, we take a look at some of the factors around wetland biodiversity and decline, the importance and need for monitoring, research and data and the intricacies of managing an ecosystem with multiple interested parties. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
        <enclosure url="https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/vc3zaq/RBMS_Podcast_Episode_3_with_Keith_Wardbdtxd.mp3" length="39417384" type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In this episode with Keith Ward, a senior wetland ecologist with over 30 years of experience working within the RAMSAR listed Barmah National Park, we take a look at some of the factors around wetland biodiversity and decline, the importance and need for monitoring, research and data and the intricacies of managing an ecosystem with multiple interested parties. ]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>2463</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>4</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 2 Part 2 Water law and traditional owner knowledge and rights with Dr Emma Carmody</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 2 Part 2 Water law and traditional owner knowledge and rights with Dr Emma Carmody</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-2-part-2-water-law-and-traditional-owner-knowledge-and-rights-with-dr-emma-carmody/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-2-part-2-water-law-and-traditional-owner-knowledge-and-rights-with-dr-emma-carmody/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:48:06 +1100</pubDate>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">rbmsau.podbean.com/ef29dae9-a639-321b-843e-cf38809fcce2</guid>
                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In this 2 part episode, we catch up with Dr Emma Carmody, the Managing Lawyer of the Freshwater Program (Australia-Pacific) from the Environmental Defenders Office (EDO). We learn about Emma's work within water law and policy in the Murray Darling Basin and internationally, and her involvement with and perspective on traditional owner water rights. For further resources see the website for links.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this 2 part episode, we catch up with Dr Emma Carmody, the Managing Lawyer of the Freshwater Program (Australia-Pacific) from the Environmental Defenders Office (EDO). We learn about Emma's work within water law and policy in the Murray Darling Basin and internationally, and her involvement with and perspective on traditional owner water rights. For further resources see the website for links.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
        <enclosure url="https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/s2s6h8/RBMS_Streaming_Podcast_episode_2_part_2_Emma_Carmody77aan.mp3" length="38228708" type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In this 2 part episode, we catch up with Dr Emma Carmody, the Managing Lawyer of the Freshwater Program (Australia-Pacific) from the Environmental Defenders Office (EDO). We learn about Emma's work within water law and policy in the Murray Darling Basin and internationally, and her involvement with and perspective on traditional owner water rights. For further resources see the website for links.]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>2389</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>3</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 2 - Part 1 - Water law and traditional owner knowledge and rights with Sonia Cooper</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 2 - Part 1 - Water law and traditional owner knowledge and rights with Sonia Cooper</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-2-part-1-water-law-traditional-owner-knowledge-and-rights-with-sonia-cooper/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-2-part-1-water-law-traditional-owner-knowledge-and-rights-with-sonia-cooper/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2021 13:30:36 +1100</pubDate>
        <guid isPermaLink="false">rbmsau.podbean.com/f3bc09af-436d-35e7-9f20-6a9198f4e04e</guid>
                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>In this 2 part episode Sonia Cooper from the Yorta Yorta Nation Aboriginal Corporation and I yarn about her time on country and role as a representative for Yorta Yorta for the Living Murray. We discuss first nation water values, recognition and empowerment, and how first nations such as Yorta Yorta might feel or see themselves operating within a water market and water policy frameworks to access water to restore and protect cultural practices and heal country.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this 2 part episode Sonia Cooper from the Yorta Yorta Nation Aboriginal Corporation and I yarn about her time on country and role as a representative for Yorta Yorta for the Living Murray. We discuss first nation water values, recognition and empowerment, and how first nations such as Yorta Yorta might feel or see themselves operating within a water market and water policy frameworks to access water to restore and protect cultural practices and heal country.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
        <enclosure url="https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/rwuymr/RBMS_Streaming_Podcast_Episode_2_-_Part_1_Sonia_Cooper16tkyg.mp3" length="47351085" type="audio/mpeg"/>
        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[In this 2 part episode Sonia Cooper from the Yorta Yorta Nation Aboriginal Corporation and I yarn about her time on country and role as a representative for Yorta Yorta for the Living Murray. We discuss first nation water values, recognition and empowerment, and how first nations such as Yorta Yorta might feel or see themselves operating within a water market and water policy frameworks to access water to restore and protect cultural practices and heal country.]]></itunes:summary>
        <itunes:author></itunes:author>
        <itunes:explicit>false</itunes:explicit>
        <itunes:block>No</itunes:block>
        <itunes:duration>2959</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>2</itunes:episode>
        <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
            </item>
    <item>
        <title>Episode 1 - Talking social science in catchment management with Dr Siwan Lovett</title>
        <itunes:title>Episode 1 - Talking social science in catchment management with Dr Siwan Lovett</itunes:title>
        <link>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-1-talking-social-science-in-catchment-management-with-dr-siwan-lovett/</link>
                    <comments>https://rbmsau.podbean.com/e/episode-1-talking-social-science-in-catchment-management-with-dr-siwan-lovett/#comments</comments>        <pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2020 22:34:06 +1100</pubDate>
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                                    <description><![CDATA[<p>We explore the social science of water and catchment management with Dr Siwan Lovett from the Australian River Restoration Centre (ARRC). From early beginnings with Siwan's career integrating social and environmental sciences including how the ARRC started, to the Waterway Management Twinning Program, how to effect change and Taking in the Good as provided during her Keynote speech at the RBMS River Fest held on September 29th, which you can find the recording of on the RBMSau youtube page.</p>
]]></description>
                                                            <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We explore the social science of water and catchment management with Dr Siwan Lovett from the Australian River Restoration Centre (ARRC). From early beginnings with Siwan's career integrating social and environmental sciences including how the ARRC started, to the Waterway Management Twinning Program, how to effect change and Taking in the Good as provided during her Keynote speech at the RBMS River Fest held on September 29th, which you can find the recording of on the RBMSau youtube page.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
                                    
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        <itunes:summary><![CDATA[We explore the social science of water and catchment management with Dr Siwan Lovett from the Australian River Restoration Centre (ARRC). From early beginnings with Siwan's career integrating social and environmental sciences including how the ARRC started, to the Waterway Management Twinning Program, how to effect change and Taking in the Good as provided during her Keynote speech at the RBMS River Fest held on September 29th, which you can find the recording of on the RBMSau youtube page.]]></itunes:summary>
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        <itunes:duration>2285</itunes:duration>
                <itunes:episode>1</itunes:episode>
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