Today I’m going to fix that as my dear friend and colleague Esther Dalkman takes us on a journey through the history of our former carbon credit program and what we’re doing with 5 years of learnings from trying to use the carbon market to finance regenerative agriculture.

Along the way we’ll hear from the former managing director of Climate Farmers, Ivo Degn, about his learnings and observations of the wider carbon market, as well as Joao Martins who used to be our business lead and is now leading the new company Terra Madre which is continuing our carbon credit legacy as they work with farmers in Portugal to access transition finance for a wide variety of ecosystem services beyond carbon.

By the end we’ll talk about what it would take for the carbon market to adapt to the needs of real farmers and we’ll get candid advice on what farmers should know  if they’re considering participating in a credit program before they sign up. 

Across farms and villages, huge amounts of biological “waste,” offcuts, by-products, and overlooked materials are still treated as problems to be removed, when in many cases they could be transformed into fertility or new forms of value. We’ll look at where the biggest missed opportunities are, from manure and bedding to prunings, wood waste, food scraps, greywater, and more, and ask how these materials can be cycled back into living systems in ways that are realistic, affordable, and adapted to local conditions.

Just as importantly, this conversation will focus on how to make loop-closing actually work in practice. At the heart of the discussion is a bigger question: how can farms become better at turning overlooked outputs into long-term ecological and economic assets? Through concrete examples, we’ll explore what it looks like when closing loops improves not only land health, but also resilience, efficiency, and the bottom line.

The question of HOW to measure regeneration also contains many sub-questions, such as what is the end goal? When does the timeline for measurement start and stop? What tools and resources are available for measuring? Where do we set the parameters for observation? I mean, is it just the ecology of the farm that needs improvement, or do we need to look at the economy of the farm business and the state of health of the people involved and the community around them?

It’s also very important to ask why we’re bothering to measure this at all. Who gets the data? What are they going to do with it, and how will this information affect the relationship between farmers, policy makers, and the end customer?

Today’s Deep Dive is a question that provokes strong opinions for good reason: who gets to say what “regenerative” means? Rather than offering a definitive answer, I’m inviting you to sit with the motivations and incentives that shape any definition—whether it’s coming from farmers, certifiers, nonprofits, corporations, or measurement platforms. You’ll hear from Joao and Diogo of Monte Silveira in central Portugal—one of the first large farms in the country to achieve Regenerative Organic Certification—on why certification mattered to their market strategy without changing how they manage the land. You’ll hear from Ana Digon of the Iberian Regenerative Agriculture Association on how organic standards became diluted and why her network built a farmer-led, principle-based definition to protect integrity. We’ll bring in Benjamin Fahrer, who helped guide the ROC certification process and wrestles with who should have the authority to set standards, and we’ll close with Phil Fernandez, who led Climate Farmers’ MRV work and explains why definitions become unavoidable once monitoring, reporting, and compliance enter the picture. Along the way I’ll name the many other perspectives shaping this debate online—from soil-health purists and carbon-first programs to agroecology, corporate “regen” initiatives, and the often-overlooked critique of appropriation from Indigenous and peasant traditions—and we’ll end by pointing to the deeper issue behind the whole mess: the loss of relationship and trust in our food systems. Next month we go practical: measuring regeneration—what’s worth tracking, what gets distorted, and how we stay grounded when dashboards start pretending to be truth.

As the Founder of the Permaculture Paradise Institute, Luwayo and his family have built an enterprise that helps local farmers throughout the whole country learn how to integrate regenerative practices. The Institute works on a trainer model that helps farmers get access to the tools, seedstock and livestock they need to create a steady stream of productive, diverse foodcrops. As a country with thousands of smallholders, the gap between conventional agricultural practices and resilient abundance requires peer learning, and access to new tools and techniques.

You can learn more and support the institute on their website: https://permacultureinstitutemw.com/ -- you can also learn how to sponsor farmers and farm training there! 

Ripura started as a traditional Agrobusiness management student University of Science and Technology (NUST) graduate with a Bachelors of Agriculture  but left conventional agriculture, disappointed in the business. After a hiatus he returned to as a farm manager of a permaculture project connected to one of Steps for Children’s schools. 

In this interview, Ripura describes the unlearning and relearning process he had to go through to figure out how to successfully build a community integrated market garden, that provides nutrition, education and seedlings for the local community.

This conversation explores the essential role of social design, community engagement, and the diverse activities that make their farms resilient and impactful. We also go into practical steps on everything from building relationships with local communities to navigating cultural differences, all while highlighting the importance of personal growth and understanding in fostering a thriving, regenerative ecosystem.

Carya Farmland Commons

Carya Farmland Commons financial sheet

Carya Farmland Commons donate link

Alex sat down to talk to Thiong’o about his own process about setting up a small 1 acre farm, developing community, and understanding the larger agriculture-sector wide changes happening in Kenya, such as seed sovereignty and ubiquitous agrochemica use.

If you want to help Thiong’o, he has a really active LinkedIn and Instagram highlighting education and insights for communities in Africa. He recently started a GoFundMe focused on funding a pond-liner, which is comparatively hard to purchase in Kenya. 

Vicki Hird is the Strategic Lead on Agriculture for The Wildlife Trusts UK and was until recently Head of the Sustainable Farming Campaign for Sustain: The Alliance for Better Food and Farming. She is also a published author and runs an independent consultancy. As an experienced and award-winning environmental campaigner, researcher, writer and strategist working for the past 30 years mainly on food, farming and environmental issues and solutions, Vicki has worked on government policy for many years authored ‘Perfectly Safe to Eat? The facts on food’ in 2000, and has led teams at FoE, War on Want, WSPA and SAFE Alliance. She has co-founded many organisations including Sustain, Hackney Food Partnership and the Eating Better Alliance – and has written and campaigned extensively at a global, EU and national level. Vicki’s other passion is insects and other invertebrates and she has a Masters in Pest Management and is a Fellow of the Royal Entomological Society (FRES). Her new book – ‘Rebugging the Planet-The Remarkable Things that Insects (and Other Invertebrates) Do – and Why we need to love them more’ will be our focus of today’s conversation.

Vicki helps me to understand the significance of invertebrates in ecosystems, exploring their role, challenges, and conservation efforts. Together we go over how promoting biodiversity, sustainable practices, and community engagement is crucial to protect these essential species and support whole ecosystem health. 

We also cover practical actions that anyone can take to support insect habitats in their area such as adopting habitat-friendly gardening practices, advocating for conservation policies, and understanding the impact of individual actions on invertebrates to maintain the delicate balance of nature.

It’s a beautiful thing to be able to eat fresh healthy produce from your own land, but I’ve often wondered as well, how we can cross the long dark and cold period of winter, when fresh local veggies are tough to come by. Though there are quite a few volumes about season extension in the garden, I had never really come across anyone who was actively planting for deep months of winter, and so I was thrilled when I found that New Society publishers were putting out a whole book on exactly this subject. Building on years of research, experimentation, and collaboration, and co authored by Catherine Sylvestre and Jean Martin Fortier “The Winter Market Gardener” is a beautifully illustrated practical guide to winter vegetable production for small farmers growing in northern climates. 

I got to speak with Catherine Sylvestre who is a professional agronomist and director of vegetable production and leader of the market garden team at la Ferme des Quatre-Temps (The Fours Seasons Farm) in Quebec, Canada. She develops, implements, and teaches best practices for cold-season growing, specializing in crop protection and greenhouse production for northern climates.

In this episode we cover just about every focus in this very complete book, from where the interest and research into winter growing started, sources of knowledge and inspiration for their ongoing experiments into winter growing, strategies and season planning, and even sales and marketing advice for the off-season produce. Catherine also gives crucial advice on the very practical side for things like structures and season extension tools, greenhouse heating devices, disease and pest protection, harvesting and cold storage, and even lists of plants that have grown well for them as well as those which have struggled. This episode could very well be the key to extending your home production of fresh veggies, whether at home or in a market garden, for the entire year, so you may want to have a notebook for this one and follow the link in the show notes to get your own copy. 

We’ll walk you through how to choose your site, even if all you have is a 5ft by 5ft patch of earth. From there we’ll look into orienting the garden spot, improving the soil, and choosing your plants for form, function, and potential.

The coolest part is that this system is modular and you can expand it from a tiny spot in an urban yard to a whole farm with the permabed system.

While there are tons and tons of tips and information in Zachs book on edible ecosystems, the smallest and most basic form revolves around the modular permabed system that he pioneered in his first book.

Starting with a 5”x5” patch of earth, you mound compost or topsoil like you might in a garden bed, with the low sides being on the south and north ideally to create tiny microclimates that favor different types of plants. in the center row at the height of the mound you can plant your key plant, which will usually be a fruit tree or berry bushes.

This creates a center point with full access to sunlight and space around to plant your support species. I’ll use the example of a pear tree guild from the book. in the center is the pear tree, ideally a bare root sapling which will cost less than a potted on and is less likely to be root bound. Along with the tree on the top of the mound you could plant grape vines on either side which will use the tree as a trellis as they grow taller.

strawberries are a great perennial ground cover which will help to shade out weeds and bear delicious fruit on the south side where it gets full sun. on the shadier south side of the mound you could grow a few asparagus shoots. they’re a highly nutritious perennial vegetable that will keep coming back year after year.

Some echinacea planted around the top by the pear and grapes will offer some visual beauty from the flowers, attract pollinators, and is a powerful medicine too. 

This is just one example of a micro edible ecosystem. If you have more space you can group multiple 5×5 squares into a row, or add multiple rows in what Zach calls a triad. play with different combinations of plants that can support one another and explore the full diversity of what grows in your climate. The options are almost limitless.

To kick off this series I spoke with Jon Steinman, author of the new book “Grocery Story: the promise of food co-ops in the age of grocery giants.” Now Jon has studied and worked with everything about food for more than twenty years. He formerly produced and hosted a popular podcast called Deconstructing Dinner, was a writer and host for a web series by the same name, and now curates the annual “Deconstructing Dinner” film festival of compelling food documentaries. Jon was also an elected director from 2006-2016 of the Kootenay Co-op – Canada’s largest independent retail consumer food co-op, serving as Board President from 2014-2016

Now I consider myself fairly well informed about the food industry from personal research and that fact that in the last decade I’ve worked directly in many branches of the industry from refrigerated shipping, industrial farms, organic farms, fish processing, many different roles in restaurants, and even the permaculture farm that many of you have heard me talk about for over a year now, but I never knew so much about the influence that the giant grocery chains and supermarkets have on every aspect of our food from how it’s grown till it gets to our plates. This is a very eye opening look, not only at the broken aspects of the food industry, but the very tangible and accessible solutions that co-op grocery stores can be, not only for getting access to better food and transforming the way the industry is incentivized to operate, but also for the positive impact that co-ops can have on our communities and local economies. We also talk about solutions for access to high quality food for low-income neighborhoods and much more.

Luckily there are a few who have shown that this is possible and are sharing their knowledge and experience and I’m thrilled to feature one of them in this session. Helen Atthowe has worked for 35 years to connect farming, food systems, land stewardship, and conservation. She currently farms and does soil- and natural enemies’ habitat- building research on her new 5-acre farm in Western Montana. Helen has an M.S. in Horticulture from Rutgers University and even studied with renowned Japanese farmer Masanobu Fukuoka. She has worked in education and research at Rutgers, the University of Arkansas, and Oregon State University and was a Horticulture Extension Agent in Montana for 17 years. Helen was a board member for the Organic Farming Research Foundation 2000-2005 and advisor for Wild Farm Alliance in 2018 & 2019. 

She first owned and operated a 30 acre certified organic vegetable/fruit farm in Montana and later co-owned with her late husband a 26 acre certified organic orchard in California. Together they then moved to a 211 acre organic farm in Eastern Oregon doing mainly orchard and vegetable production. The two of them also created educational videos on their YouTube channel called Agrarian Dreams, and did video presentations about their ecological farming methods.

She is the author of “The Ecological Farm: A Minimalist No-Till, No-Spray, Selective-Weeding, Grow-Your-Own-Fertilizer System for Organic Agriculture”. And that is exactly what we’ll be focusing on in our interview today. As a reflection of many of the discussions happening within the Climate Farmer’s community at the moment, Helen and I really dug into the unique goals she and her husband had during their farming careers and how they gauged their success. We talk about the way they measured progress on their journey towards a healthy yet low input system for both their orchard and vegetable crops as well the routines and practices that brought them the best results. Much more than just the knowledge and practices of her farming experience, Helen brings a remarkable mindset of constant learning and experimentation to this conversation that is now informing her new 5 acre project in Montana. We also cover the most important learnings that she has gained through her career and how it informs the establishment of all her new research.

I got a window into the world of natural beekeeping back in May of 2022 when I co-hosted a Climate Farmer’s community event at Wilmer’s Gaerten, a regenerative farm just south of Berlin. Since then I've been looking for an opportunity to speak with Uli Beckman, the instructor on our course on beekeeping and management who helped me to see a whole new possibility in how to promote healthy colonies that in turn promote health ecosystems and people. This is exactly what today’s episode is all about.

Uli’s company, Beckmann Urtracht was founded in 2015 with the aim of consistently working in such a way that the beekeeper takes a back seat to the needs of the bees. Today, their principles and way of working far exceed anything required to be certified as an organic beekeeper. Natural propagation, natural honeycomb, built entirely by the bees, natural nutrition and minimal intervention are their maxims. Because with every jar of honey we hold in our hands, we must not forget that the bees did not produce it for us, but as food for themselves. Beckmann Urtracht is the alternative to maximizing yields and obtaining varietal honeys. The end result is an honest, original honey that can only be harvested in small quantities, but is outstanding in terms of quality and taste as well as its ecological and bee-friendly production. In todays conversation with Uli, we start by comparing and contrasting the conventional practices of industrial beekeeping and how they differ from the principles that guide natural beekeeping.

From there we go into the details of not only the life cycle and behavioral patterns of bees and how those inform how to manage them well, but also the practical side of building hives that promote their health and the environmental factors that present a real challenge to the future of the species. In the process we also unpack the history of beekeeping in Europe and the innovators how pioneered new management methods based on relationship over extraction. We cover advice on how to get started with your own hive and expectations of time and equipment for keeping bees too. I’m sure that by the end of this episode you’ll come to understand why many of the most influential and insightful people in the world of regenerative land management have become beekeepers themselves.

The industrial meat industry, in my opinion, is the epitome of what is broken in our food system and is a glaring example of the disconnect between humans and healthy natural systems, but Meredith shows us how we can reconnect with animals by treating every step in the process from raising, to slaughter, butchery and cooking with respect and care. In this interview we start by acknowledging the broken and unhealthy state of meat consumption. We also go in depth about the environmental impacts, issues surrounding animal welfare, and the health problems of an imbalanced diet. Meredith then explains how a healthy and reverent relationship to animals and all their products could look like through real examples of ecological management of livestock systems, mindful slaughter, home butchery methods, and preservation through curing, fermentation and cooking. This is one of the most holistic and nuanced perspectives on every aspect of meat that I’ve come across that even treats vegan and vegetarian perspectives on the topic with compassion and understanding. Meredith herself was vegan before getting involved with butchery and animal care so I encourage you to listen through the full episode before jumping to conclusions on the angle that this interview takes.

I also recognize that everything about meat from animal care, to diet, slaughter and cooking are very contentious topics at the moment and I would love to hear from you about how you feel and relate to the opinions expressed in this session, so please leave respectful comments and feedback under the show notes for this episode, or any other episode for that matter

Dairy farming has been under sharp criticism in recent times. Scrutiny over everything from the appropriateness of dairy in the diet to the methane emissions of cows and the controversial practices of early separation of calves from their mothers to maximize milk production have all contributed to a diminished reputation. 

Though these critiques are very legitimate, what if there were solutions to all of them without the need to turn to non-dairy alternatives?

Today to explore these solutions is one of the leaders in regenerative dairy and a growing movement of dairy producers working to develop a new way of managing dairy cows and the pastures they coexist with. Phyllis Van Amburgh along with her husband Paul and their family are leaders in holistic land use, biodiverse cultivation, Organic dairy herd management, and more. 

Together they are dairy farmers in upstate New York, and have been involved in key innovations in the dairy industry, mostly in western parts of the world, re-integrating dairy cows as a cornerstone for ecological health and for human communities to thrive. Phyllis and Paul have also helped develop the Grass-fed certification program with NOFA-NY and PCO. 

In this interview Phyllis starts by sharing her inspiring story of transitioning away from her previous career as she and Paul embraced a gradual move into full time farming. 

We explore the intuition she had that much of the conventional wisdom and ways of doing things in the dairy industry were not really in the interest of either the cows nor the farmers and how that led them to rethink their own dairy operation. 

Phyllis outlines the key aspects they consider essential for managing a dairy herd regeneratively and the pioneering journey they’re on to make exclusively grass fed dairy cows viable through selective breeding and holistic managed grazing. 

We also explore Phyllis’ insights from her work helping large dairy operations in the USA and Europe to transition to regenerative management and the challenges and opportunities that the wider industry has to transform.

Kristina is the co-executive director of the Farmer's Land Trust, a farmer, communicator, and community coordinator who believes that our connection to the soil is directly related to the health of our bodies, economy, and society. With over a decade of farming, communication, and fundraising experience, Kristina enjoys using her skill sets to share photos, stories, and information in engaging ways which help to inspire change in human habits and mindsets, causing the food system, climate, and overall well-being of the world to improve. Kristina has spent the last several years of her professional career saving farmland from development and securing it in nonprofit land holding structures that give farmers, stewards and ranchers long-term and affordable access and tenure to it. Most of her work in the land access space has focused on equitable land security for BIPOC growers, addressing the inequities and disparities in how land is owned and accessed in this country. In this episode we cover the vast topic of land access, while touching on the history of land privatization and how so many groups of people have been systematically removed from land access, how land has become increasingly unobtainable, especially for farmers, traditional models of common land access and how the farmland commons offers a modern legal template for equitable land access for farmers in the modern context. We really take the time to go into specifics here as we explore case studies of non-profits that have setup farmland commons in their communities, how those legal entities are organized and maintained, and how the basic structure can be adapted to the unique needs and focus of the communities that they serve. This is a very important topic for anyone interested in non-conventional paths to farmland access and tenureship, but also for those who might be considering retirement from their own farm and are motivated to enable a legacy of stewardship on their farm rather than selling the landbase itself. Learn more at thefarmerslandtrust.org

In this conversation I’ve got Dan Brisebois, a seasoned cooperative farmer, to discuss the various aspects of seed farming, from his own slow start in the beginning, to the present day success of his enterprise that was founded in 2004. He starts by touching on his background and his shift from agricultural engineering to farming, driven by a passion discovered during summer farm work. Dan elaborates on his cooperative farm’s structure, which has expanded to include 11 members and 9 member applicants. He then delves into his journey of integrating seed production into his market gardening enterprise, spurred by encounters with seed enthusiasts and the fascination with cross-pollination and plant breeding. Dan also shares practical insights on the equipment, processes, and considerations for seed harvesting, cleaning, and storage, emphasizing the importance of knowledge over technological sophistication. He explains his labeling and tracking system for plant breeding and offers advice on balancing genetic diversity with achieving true-to-type consistency. Furthermore, Dan reflects on the unexpected discoveries and rewarding moments in plant breeding and highlights the profitability factors when growing seeds for bulk versus small packets. Lastly, Dan touches on the impact of market demand for specialty seeds and advises aspiring seed growers on where to get started, mentioning his book, podcast, and additional resources provided through his Farmer Spreadsheet Academy. For those of you like me, passionate about the unlimited potential of working with seed, or who perhaps already have a garden or market veggie production enterprise and might want to add some additional value to what you’re already growing, this will be a great episode for you.

Elspeth is a writer, public radio host, and creator of the Local Food Report, a weekly feature that has aired on CAI, the Cape & Islands NPR Station, since 2008. Deeply immersed in her own local food system, she writes and reports for print, radio, and online media with a focus on food and the environment. Elspeth’s work has been featured in the Boston Globe, NPR’s Kitchen Window, Heated with Mark Bittman, The Provincetown Independent, and numerous other publications. Through her conversations with growers, harvesters, processors, cooks, policy makers, Indigenous knowledge-keepers, scientists, researchers, and visionaries, she aims to rebuild our cultural store of culinary knowledge—and to reconnect us with the people, places, and ideas that feed us. 

In this session, Elspeth shares her journey of developing a passion for perennial food systems, particularly focusing on nuts and tree-based staple crops. 

Her early exposure to nature evolved into an obsession with acorns and other tree nuts. Her research went on to reveal the extensive use of tree nuts as staple foods across the northern hemisphere and the historical as well as the cultural shifts that led to their decline in favor of annual grain crops. Elspeth delves into the nutritional and ecological benefits of these perennial foods, the complexities of modern industrial agriculture, and the resurgence of interest in tree crops, especially in the American Midwest. She also explores innovative recipes and culinary uses of nuts, especially acorns and chestnuts, while emphasizing the importance of integrating perennial crop systems into modern diets and agricultural practices. This conversation covers a lot of ground from land management, economic models, and the promising future of perennial food systems.

As with all the books that I focus on from my friends at new society publishers, we’re running a book giveaway for “Feed us with Trees.” By now you know the drill. Send me a message on our Discord community. If you’re not already a member you can sign up through the links on our homepage or the bio on Instagram. I’ll choose a winner one week after this episode goes live, and If you live anywhere in North America we’ll send a physical copy. Everywhere else you’ll receive a digital version. 

In this last third we navigate the need for Generational Healing and Cultural Shifts in our collective culture. The unavoidable reality that the healthiest food for you as an individual can never be bought. Steps for building resilience and Self-Sufficiency, before then going back to Dan’s own Journey to Farming and interest in Nutrient Density as well as his current Challenges and plans for the future. 

Though I’ve been watching the conversation and developments of this concept and research for years now, I have been waiting to build a decent enough grasp of the topic to be able to guide a meaningful conversation about what has been learned, where the research is going, and what are the potential pitfalls or opportunities for corruption of knowledge and technology that tells us the details of the nutrients in every ingredient we consume.

Then a few weeks ago, my good friend Andre Antunes in Portugal introduced me directly to Dan Kittredge through email urging us to connect and have a conversation. I know that Dan does interviews all the time and so I asked him what he would want to talk about that he often doesn’t get to explore. He got back to me by saying he’d be most interested in doing a long form discussion in which we have the time to discuss all of the concepts and ideas around the core of his work with the Bionutrient Food Association that both inform the purpose and research but that go into the bigger motivations and theory behind it all…so, that’s exactly what we did. Earlier this week Dan and I set aside time to really leave the space open and see where the chat could end up. Almost two and a half hours later, time which absolutely flew by for me, I have a deep dive for you that explores all that I mentioned and more. Given that I don’t tend to do long form conversations, I’ve broken things down into three 45ish minute episodes. If however you prefer to listen in all one uninterrupted go, I published the video version in its entirety on the regenerative skills YouTube channel.

In this first third you’ll hear us discuss Dan’s seven-month global tour focused on nutrient density, the importance of understanding its true definition, and its critical role in social movements turning into industries. He elaborates on the BFA's perspective, emphasizing that nutrient density is a continuum of quality rather than a binary concept. The conversation underscores the need for a universal standard of nutrient density, the correlation between soil health and nutrient levels, and the use of spectroscopy technology to measure and improve food quality

In the second third we mostly get into Principles of Biological Systems and how to apply Nature's Patterns in Business. Dan talks about his experience Engaging with Farmers and Large Businesses alike. We dig into his personal Journey, the influence that Eastern Paradigms and Consciousness have had on his world view, the connection of Nutrient Density and Spirituality, and the potential of Technological Tools to be transformed for Empowerment.

In the last third we navigate the need for Generational Healing and Cultural Shifts in our collective culture, the unavoidable reality that the healthiest food for you as an individual can never be bought. Steps for building resilience and Self-Sufficiency, before then going back to Dan’s own Journey to Farming and interest in Nutrient Density as well as his current Challenges and plans for the future. 

The other two sections will come out on Friday in the next two weeks, which actually suits me really well because I’m just getting ready to leave for a water restoration job in La Mancha here in Spain and then to the University of Reading to start a Regen Ag transition and agronomist training that I’ll be building with a diverse team, all of which I’ll tell you about in future episodes. 

In this episode I spoke with Ryan Blosser, the co-author along with Trevor Piersol of the new book Mulberries in the Rain: Growing Permaculture Plants for Food and Friendship. The book goes beyond the sphere of most permaculture books that are heavy on design theory and techniques, and speaks about the process of investigation and time investment to build lasting and mutually beneficial relationships with the plants that you cultivate, forage or otherwise cohabitate with. Ryan is also co owner and lead instructor with Shenandoah Permaculture Institute. He is also the Farm Educator with Waynesboro City Schools where he runs Waynesboro Education Farm and is also a former child and family therapist and market farmer. Besides covering practical steps for building a relationship with the plants you come into contact with, much more than other episodes, this conversation is based on stories, both Ryan’s and my own. We talk about adversarial relationships with plants that blossomed into alliances. We trade memories of plant that ground us in place and are connected with who we perceive ourselves to be. Ones that are connected to family, legend and legacy as well as a few we’re still reconciling and exploring but present challenges.

Yet in recent years there has been a major backlash from the local population protesting irresponsible development, skyrocketing prices, and exemptions from water restrictions directly related to the way tourism is managed. Here to explore these challenges as well as the potential to chart a new course for both hosts and visitors is Sonia Teruel. Sonia helps grassroots initiatives, entrepreneurs and Destination Management Organisations in their transition to a regenerative model in tourism. She is also a consultant, facilitator, and founder at The RegenLAB for Travel. In this conversation we explore the meteoric rise of Spain as a tourist destination and its impact on the communities where visitors concentrate. We look at the challenges that have ignited protests and opposition to the way tourism is managed as well as some of the responses to these issues which may cause bigger problems in the long term. From there we mine Sonia’s experiences as a community conversation facilitator who works to guide collaborative processes that explore the potential for new ways of managing visitors and hosts alike in order to achieve lasting solutions. 

Sonia will be the first to admit that these efforts are still in their infancy and case studies of real success over time don’t exist yet in our region, but points to some promising projects to keep an eye on and perhaps emulate as they get established. Though the focus is on the Spanish context, I have no doubt that there are equivalents to many other places around the world where the tourism industry has shaped development and policy for decades, and I hope many of you listening will find inspiration for where you live as well.

In this session I had the good fortune of introducing Stefan Sobkowiak to our group. Many of you who’ve been listening to this show for a while will remember the last interview I did with Stefan in the last season during the series on agroforestry. Stefan is one of my favorite sources for practical and honest techniques for managing the whole ecology of an orchard from propagating new tree species through maintenance, pest management, harvesting and even processing and marketing your products. His film, the Permaculture Orchard has help people around the world to transition towards diversified, resilient, and more profitable models of running their tree crop businesses. His YouTube channel goes even more in depth as he’s always creating videos about the innovations and even struggles that are going on at his orchard Miracle Farm in Canada.  

In this session we cover a lot of ground in a short time. We talk about How to manage pests and diseases by improving soil health and biodiversity in the orchard. How to care for the health of your trees for better yields and profit. Integrating other crops and animals into the system for ecological and economic resilience. And how to adapt common methods to your unique climate and context. 

There’s a whole Q&A session that happens after the half hour interview on these skill exchange calls which are exclusive to the Climate Farming network here in Europe. So if you’re interested in attending these calls in person to have your own questions answered by the experts and tap into the growing community of farmers, consultants, and educators around Europe, you can register right now at ClimateFarmers.org

Michelle is an author, facilitator, consultant & researcher, who For the past 2 decades, has supported pioneering clients across a range of sectors, including tourism & agriculture, to enable the transition to more regenerative systems and structures. Michelle’s research & experience are brought together in her book, The Age of Thrivability: Vital Perspectives & Practices for a Better World, as well as more than 100 articles on themes of thrivability & regeneration. In this conversation, Michelle and I start by building an understanding of her term, thrivability as a concept that we set as a foundation for potential. We then look at the current paradigm of tourism and how it can erode both the value of the places that host visitors as well as cheapen the experiences that travelers are looking for. Through examples from our own travels and experiences Michelle and I look through examples of tourism interactions from different places and where opportunities may have been missed. We analyse both the perspective of travelers as well as hosts to build on a concept of thrivability for both, and Michelle shares case studies of where community led discussions have unlocked greater potential than what may lie on the surface. 

By the end you’ll hear about ideas and advice on how you, either as a visitor or a host, can break free of the common narrative of extractive tourism and begin to cultivate a relationship with the other that can enrich everyone involved, including the local environment.

The guiding question we explored was, How can farmers prepare for a changing climate and ensure long-term water resilience? We explored water retention, flood management, and drought resilience—breaking down strategies that help farms thrive despite increasing climate uncertainty.

We started by talking about the key changes farmers should expect in the coming decades and how to assess hydrological health on your farm. 

From there we went into practical steps to build a holistic water management strategy, and how to navigate the many options available for water retention. 

If you’ve been listening for any amount of time, you’ll know me and my friend Nick as we work closely together and have talked about water cycle restoration and our contracting jobs in creating water retention landscapes in many past episodes. Our good friend Megan Neary is new to this show though. She works with Elemental Ecosystems and the Water Stories team as a project technician. With a background in geology and conservation, Megan specializes in reshaping landscapes to improve soil health, enhance biodiversity, and create decentralized water systems. Now there is a whole Q&A session that I chopped for the podcast version, but if you’re interested you can find it on the Climate Farmer’s Youtube channel. 

I’ve worked as a teacher and educational facilitator in different capacities since the beginning of my career, first in before and after school programs for kids, then as an arts and environmental educator at summer camps, then English as a second language in both South Korea and Guatemala, and in between teaching various technical workshops in natural building, permaculture, ecosystem restoration, the transition journey to regenerative agriculture, and of course water management and water cycle restoration. Every time I engage in these activities I gain huge respect for teachers and the incredible skill and patience it takes to be an effective educational facilitator. Similarly, I want to continue to grow as a teacher and even improve my skills as a student since I’m also always in some sort of course or other at the same time.

I know this is a wide and nuanced topic and so to help me to become oriented to the considerations and scope of what I’m exploring, I reached out to Pavel Cenkl, who is the Academic Dean at Prescott College in Arizona (US) and the Founder of the Regenerative Learning Network. His work focuses on the intersection of transformative learning, community, and ecology and building a more regenerative, resilient, and equitable educational future. He’s also the author of several books including Transformative Learning (with Satish Kumar), “Relational Ecologies: Building Regenerative Community Learning Networks” in Regenerative Ecosystems in the Anthropocene (2023) and “Lessons from the Periphery” in Regenerative Learning (2022). Pavel’s current book in progress is titled Networked Learning: Transforming Higher Education through Distributed Learning.

This conversation weaves from the troubles with traditional or conventional educational models and why they leave so many behind, and increasingly in debt, through alternative models of teaching and the potential that educational institutions really have. We explore the role of technology in learning as well as the things the digital world can’t replace. Pavel also give his take on what makes effective educators and a window into their process of creating learning curriculums that are in line with the concept of regenerative education. This is the first in a series of interviews that I’m in the process of planning so if you have any ideas of what questions I should explore or who I should speak to in upcoming interviews, I encourage you to reach out to me through the Regenerative Skills Discord server. 

But before I get into all of that, I want to start this season off with an exploration of the cutting edge of soil science and agronomy, and as part of the monthly panel discussion series, that’s exactly what we focused on in a live interview.  Uncover the newest developments and cutting edge of scientific discovery in agronomy and soil research. We'll explore this unfolding frontier with two of the scientists and researchers who are pushing the boundaries of their fields bringing new possibilities for regenerative farmers to manage their land and businesses for greater ecological health. We're joined in this panel by Harriet Mela: Independent researcher and soil biologist from Austria James White: Soil microbiologist and professor at Rutgers University in the United States

Another motivation for organizing these is to increase awareness of the practicalities that are behind the aspiration to great achievements in land management. I hope that all of you out there listening to these episodes leave after having heard these episodes feeling that the incredible accomplishments and projects of the people we highlight are achievable and replicable and that you can do things like this too. You may not personally identify with their particular contexts or want to mimic them or their work exactly, but I hope you might find a point of connection in their stories and their journeys. Every project starts as an idea or a dream or a feeling that is nurtured into its potential by the people and communities that have skin in the game and dedicate their time and efforts to co-create that potential. With that said I want to introduce the panel and our speakers for this episode. So today we’ll be exploring the challenges and opportunities in mixed enterprise farming. By that I mean farms that sell and range of products, especially of different food categories such as cereals and cattle, or market garden and laying hens and agrotourism and farm tours. I was really lucky to get three farmers together from very different regions who are pioneering diverse enterprise farming on their land. Now it’s not usually the case that the farmers I get to speak with are people I’ve met in person or farms that I’ve physically visited, but in this case I’ve been to and even ran some events and projects with each of the farmers who I’m speaking with. Maria Gimenez comes to us from Wilmers Gaerten just south of Berlin Germany. Francisco Alves comes from Herdade de Sao Luis, Porcus Natura in Alentejo Portugal, and Ariane Lotti joins us from Tenuta San Carlo near the Tuscan coast in Italy. They each give much better intros of themselves and their farms than I can so I’ll let them do that, but before we jump into the panel, you should know that there’s a video version of this panel that includes the Q&A session in this last half hour which I am clipping off here for the podcast version. You can find that on the Climate Farmers YT chanel and if you happen to be an active farmer anywhere in Europe, you can also join the Climate Farmers community for free and participate in the farmer to farmers learning platform that we’ve built by going to Climate Farmers.org The community is part of a non-profit dedicated to assisting farmers at all levels of their transition to regenerative management.

In the second episode we turned to look at the myriad of options that are available to mitigate and even reverse the effects of drought focusing first on the sequence of design considerations. We looked into stopping points of drainage and damage, minimizing the need for use, and then capture and retention. From there we take a specific look at small scale to medium scale living space. Apartments and condos all the way up to small homes to homesteads of a few acres. 

In this last episode we’re going to wrap up the layout of different drought mitigation strategies for medium, large and even regional scales. More than home infrastructure, this session focuses on land management with interventions like earthworks, road and access design, and even restoration of water bodies like rivers and streams. 

The regional scale is an aspect of drought mitigation that I believe everyone has a responsibility to get involved in, and there is a need for a variety of approaches, from political action and institutional reform, to coalition building, and even direct work on the ground. Hopefully by the end of this series you’ll feel much better informed about what drought really is and some of the many options available to you to create resiliency against this increasingly common and severe occurrence in many parts of the world in order to take action and change the trajectory that your home and your community is currently on. 

You may not be surprised to hear that we ended up running long and so I split the episode into two parts. In this session we cover mostly the order of consideration for a retrofit of a home or even a landscape design geared towards water harvesting and rehydration. Then we look at the options available to people in small living spaces like apartments and condos in urban or peri urban areas. We also start to explore the next size up which would be small to medium sized homes with access to anything from a small garden to a couple acres of land. 

The great thing about looking at things in this order is that pretty much all the options available to small scale living or land access are also available as you size up. I also think it’s important to explain that there’s no reason you need to own or have access to large amounts of land in order to have a meaningful effect and influence on the water catchment in your local area, or often even more importantly, assist in shifting the culture of water use and abuse that is baked in to many of our modern societies to one of reverence and respect for water and the life it enables. 

Now, it’s impossible that Nick and I mention and explore all of the options at the various scales of living that we cover in these next two episodes, so please reach out to us if you think there are other possibilities we should be aware of or mention in future talks. We’re always excited to expand our own understanding and have a better grasp of the new and emerging knowledge for working with water. 

In this episode we’ll break down some of the common myths and misconceptions about drought and its causes. We’ll also talk about the link between drought and other common natural disasters such as floods and wildfires and then give concrete examples from our respective home bases. We go into some of the hidden factors that lead to regional droughts and some of the science behind the way water works in the environment to cool the atmosphere and create more moderate conditions in the climate. 

This chat is the first in a two part look at drought and will set us up for a second episode next week where we’ll break down some of the wide ranges of actions and changes that can make a difference, not only in mitigating the effects of drought but also reversing the trends in the long term and rehydrating your landscape. 

So for that reason, I’m going to republish two episodes I’ve recorded on jobs in the field. Today’s will be from a ranch project in which I worked on a team from Mark Shepard’s company Restoration Agriculture Design led by Jake Takiff, and next week you’ll come along with me and my good friend and longtime collaborator Nick Stener as we recap some jobs we did out in southern Portugal earlier this year. 

So let's get started. I was invited to assist on a watershed restoration design and install project with a company that I’ve admired and looked up to my whole career, Restoration Agriculture Development (RAD). RAD is the design and project installation company founded by Mark Shepard, the legendary farmer and author who has helped to define the ambitions through his work and writings such as “Restoration Agriculture” and “Water for Any Farm.” Though Mark wasnt involved with this job directly, I got to work with their team lead, and accomplished farmer in his own right, Jake Takiff from Cedar Springs farm in Hotchkiss, Colorado.

In this first episode, I’ll be trying out a new format in which I’ll bring you along for the duration of this project and give detailed updates about how work is moving forward, what we’re learning in the process, and the main takeaways. 

Despite being best known for ecological building design and policy, in this interview we’re going to focus on his book Dry Run, which unpacks some of the best ways to manage scarce water resources and handle upcoming urban water crises. The book explains the most pressing water issues that urban zones face, and examines the vital linkages between water, energy use, urban development and climate change. Dry Run also demonstrates best practices for achieving “net zero” water use in the built environment through, water conservation strategies for buildings, factories, cities and homes, rainwater harvesting, greywater reuse and water reclamation systems, water efficiency retrofits, onsite sewage treatment, and new water reuse and supply technologies.

In this interview we specifically address the urgent changes that cities need to make to ensure longer term water security. Jerry explains his classifications of the colors of water that help to categorize the different sources and uses for water in cities that require different management systems, and gives a few case studies of municipalities that have started to make improvements in their aquatic infrastructure.

In his substack blog, R3genesis, he writes about topics such as Enhancing bioprecipitation through afforestation, mapping a rain plan for the Valencia region of Spain, how beetles drive ecosystem dynamics, and so much more. His ability to make important connections between small actors in the environment with macro processes in our ecosystem and the ways in which this knowledge can be put to use in our lives. In this conversation Ali and I explore his journey and passion around ecosystem restoration, how his background in engineering is opening new possibilities by modeling landscape hydrology, new technologies that can be used to bridge scientific disciplines for new discoveries, and how these models can inform a new generation of water and climate wise policy and incentive mechanisms.

Mike has worked in ecological design for more than a decade, starting out with small scale homestead and farm designs to large scale landscape design, watershed management, and ecosystem restoration. Having had a career in public safety, He’s seen first hand the devastating effects of climatic disasters and I recognize that nature based solutions are the way forward.

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In this episode we’ll not only explore Mike’s fascinating background and path to ecological design, we’ll take the time to focus on the evolving challenges of water management when safe drainage and removal of excess water is the objective over retention and capture.

In this panel I got to speak with three of the most experienced and influential educators working on this from a farming perspective. Since landscape hydrology and its proper function is often overlooked in its importance in regulating global temperature, I wanted to focus on this specifically. I was lucky enough to bring together three of the experts that have most guided my learning in this field, Zach Weiss, Nicole Masters, and Mark Shepard. Don’t forget that if you want to see the video of the full event, you can check it out on the Climate Farmer’s Youtube channel through the link in the show notes for this episode.

Zach Weiss is the protégé of revolutionary Austrian farmer Sepp Holzer, Zach is the first person to earn Holzer Practitioner certification directly from Sepp. Zach went on to create Elemental Ecosystems to provide an action-oriented process to improve clients’ relationship with their landscape. Elemental Ecosystems is an ecological development, contracting, and consulting firm specializing in watershed restoration and ecosystem regeneration. The firm’s work includes Aquaculture, Agroforestry, Water Retention Landscapes, Terrace Systems, Spring Development, Natural Building, and more.

Mark Shepard is the CEO of Forest Agriculture Enterprises LLC, founder of Restoration Agriculture Development LLC and award-winning author of the books, Restoration Agriculture and Water for Any Farm. He is most widely known as the founder of New Forest Farm, the 106-acre perennial agricultural savanna considered by many to be one of the most ambitious sustainable agriculture projects in the United States.

Nicole Masters is is an independent agroecologist, systems thinker, storyteller, educator and author of the book “For the Love of Soil.” With over 20 years of practical and theoretical experience in regenerative agriculture, she is also recognised as a knowledgeable and dynamic speaker on the topic of soil health. Her team of soil coaches at Integrity Soils work alongside producers in the U.S., Canada and across Australasia supporting producers and organisations who cover over 24 million acres, to take their landscapes to the next level in nutrient density, profitability and environmental outcomes.

Brian is an ocean scientist, engineer and entrepreneur, though much of his career has been in Silicon Valley where he developed innovative technical solutions for companies like Pixar, Dolby and Microsoft. Brian is also the founder and Executive Director of the non-profit The Climate Foundation, an institute working to regenerate life in the world’s oceans and reverse global warming within our lifetimes.

Through Brian’s work with the Climate Foundation, he’s been promoting the concept of marine permaculture through ocean seaweed and kelp farming in a way that could potentially revitalize areas of degraded coastline as well as spark a whole new economy around marine ecosystem stewardship. 

In this interview, Brian starts by explaining just how immense and important the kelp forests of the world are by describing the impact that they’ve had on the ecology of the west coast of the United States. I think it’s so important to regain reference to what our healthy and intact biosphere used to be, because all of us alive today have almost no reference to what our natural world even looked like before humans started to alter and degrade it so severely. 

Brian also breaks down what it could mean for the economy and health of the west if these underwater forests could be regenerated and cared for. 

We also explore some of the challenges in getting sea farming and ocean permaculture projects started and especially funded, since the initial costs are often much higher than land based initiatives.

We cover a lot of ground in this talk and even touch on topics like how marine farming fits into a regenerative economy and what those of you listening can do to support and even start your own marine permaculture projects, so be sure to stick around for some great action steps by the end.

Marine ecosystems are much less understood by the general public for a variety of reasons, but our actions on land have a direct effect on the health of our oceans too. Luckily there are incredible teams of people looking to address these issues with promising new solutions and over the next couple of episodes I’ll be highlighting a few of them. 

To get things started I spoke to Joost Wouters, an entrepreneur, speaker, author and the ‘Sea’EO of the Seaweed Company. I got to know Joost first as a co-instructor with me on the Ecosystem restoration design course through Gaia Education. I was fascinated with his presentation and the compelling data on the potential regenerative effects that seaweed and kelp can have in bringing back the health of coastal areas. In his role with the Seaweed Company, he and his team aim to implement CO2-reducing seaweed-based business models at large scale.

It turns out that seaweed is the fastest growing biomass in the world. Seaweed farming itself, if done responsibly, has the power to address many of the ecological challenges we face today, without the use of land, fertilizer, or freshwater. It reduces ocean acidification, promotes marine biodiversity, and even absorbs vast quantities of CO2 from the atmosphere.

Seaweed can also create highly valuable end products. It is a nutritious food source for both people and animals and can be used as an environmentally friendly alternative to petroleum-based fertilisers and plastics. At the moment it’s a unique untapped resource, and the goal of the Seaweed Company is to unlock the potential of this wondrous resource to benefit both people and the planet.

In this episode Joost starts by explaining some of the urgent issues facing marine environments and how seaweed farming can help to address them. We go over the advantages that growing seaweed has over terrestrial agriculture, the high value products that can be made from different types of seaweed, the many pilot projects around the world that his company has helped to start and much more. 

Towards the end we also examine the roadblocks that are holding this solution back from being more widely adopted and how those of you listening can learn more and get involved. 

I’ve personally been learning a lot about marine ecosystems through these interviews and truly hope that a greater awareness will begin to be built around just how essential the health of our oceans is to the health of all life, even to ecosystems that are far inland and away from any saltwater. I’m really excited for this and the next few episodes for this reason.

In this first episode I got to speak with Enric Sala, a renowned ecologist making a clear case for why protecting nature is our best health insurance, and why it makes economic sense. Enric is the director of National Geographic’s Pristine Seas project (which has succeeded in protecting more than 5 million sq km of ocean and created 22 marine reserves). Dr. Sala has received the Young Global Leader Award by the World Economic Forum, a Research Award from the Spanish Geographical Society, the Lowell Thomas Award from the Explorers Club, and a Hero Award from the Environmental Media Association. In his new book “The Nature of Nature: Why We Need the Wild,” he tells the story of his scientific awakening and his transition from academia to activism. More importantly, he shows the economic wisdom of making room for nature, even as the population becomes more urbanized, and how saving nature can save us all, by reversing conditions that led to the coronavirus pandemic and preventing other global catastrophes.

In this interview we begin by unpacking the changes that have occurred in our oceans in the last few decades and how this is affecting people all over the world, even if you don’t live anywhere near the sea. 

Enric also offers a lot of hope that our oceans can recover if we act swiftly and give them the space and protection to regenerate. 

I learned a lot from this talk and as I begin to learn more about how marine health is closely linked to terrestrial health, I would encourage those of you listening to examine how your own habits and lifestyle choices are connected to ocean health in ways that can be hard to see. 

In this interview Douglas talks about the best way to map out contours on the land, some of the most effective ways to harvest rainwater on a site, how to link up various earthwork and containment systems to make them work in tandem, and most importantly, he talks in detail about many of the safety concerns that many people have no idea about when it comes to installing swales and dams.

He’s also a valued member of the Permaculture Sustainable Consulting team headed up by Geoff Lawton and is registered Teacher #5 with the Permaculture Research Institute of Australia.

Doc is a master of practical and logical mainframe permaculture design and he’s pioneered the design of water harvesting and storage earthworks which frames all regenerative farming. In this episode we talk about why it’s so important to invest early on in a project to get your earthworks right because of what it can mean for the health of your land. Doc also shares some insights on his personal design process and what he looks for in a landscape to give him clues as to the most effective interventions on the form of the land. We also cover some of the risks of improperly installed features, the need to draw from as many sources of knowledge as possible and he also gives some valuable advice for people who are new to earthworks on how to get started. 

Rob and Michelle founded Verge Permaculture, an award-winning design, consulting and education company in Calgary, Alberta after years of international training in renewable energy and regenerative design. Since its founding, Verge has helped more than 1000 students and clients to design and create integrated systems for shelter, energy, water, waste, and food, all while supporting their local economy and regenerating the land. Through their design and consulting they create havens that produce their own energy and food, harvest water, cycle nutrients, and restore the surrounding ecosystems, enabling property owners to thrive no matter what. With such a broad range of knowledge, experience, and expertise, we focused mainly on rain water harvesting techniques and systems in this episode as an entry into the larger concept of watershed regeneration and revival.

In this session Rob explains some of the key components of rain water harvesting systems and the ways that you can treat and filter the water for various uses. We talk at length about why expensive filters and disinfectants are often unnecessary, even for most potable water uses, and the different ways you can keep your stored rainwater clean. Rob also speaks about how rainwater harvesting systems fit into a larger system aimed toward water resilience in multiple living contexts from urban to rural applications. I’ve been a big fan of Verge Permaculture and all their great work for some time now and I’m intending to create a larger series of in depth talks with Rob and Michelle in the future 

In the last handful of episodes we’ve explored permaculture earthworks for water harvesting landscapes and keyline design on large scales. As a complement to those topics I got in touch with Brad Lancaster, the author Rainwater Harvesting for Drylands and Beyond, volumes one and two which have recently been re-released as expanded new editions. Brad is an expert in the field of rainwater harvesting and water management whose work I’ve been following for a long time. He is also a permaculture teacher, designer, consultant and co-founder of the non-profit Desert Harvesters, which teaches the public how to identify, harvest, and process many of the native-food plants people are propagating in their areas. He’s also been instrumental in helping to change water management policy and government incentives in the City of Tucson to help others implement water wise catchment and reuse features on their properties. 

In this interview we cover a wide range of topics from the difference between active and passive harvesting technology and reading the landscape to determine how to work with the natural surroundings, to the increasing importance for water stewardship in non-arid climates and why it’s so important to connect and invest in the place you already live rather than thinking that moving to another place will solve your environmental worries. 

Brad also gives great advice on home scale water harvesting and storage which are all topics that are covered extensively in his books. He’s done an incredible job with the help of many experts and collaborators to compile tons of resources that are available to help you get started on his website

I know this might seem oddly specific, but after an interview with Brad Lancaster last season, he talked about how he’s been learning from people like Van and his mentor Bill Zeedyk about smaller, less intrusive interventions that can have profound effects on the health of a watershed.

The truth is that there are so few watersheds and water bodies left around the world that aren’t highly degraded and in need of restoration.

Many of the communities most affected by this damage don’t have the resources to hire engineers and professionals to do survey and undertake large expensive restoration projects.

A lot of what Van promotes flies in the face of these large professional technical projects and teaches people how to understand their watersheds and identify the small and gradual work that can be done to improve their health.

The one rock dam is a great example of this and so today we’ll be exploring what it is, how it can be installed, and most importantly, how to educate yourself on how to interact and intervene in a damaged waterway in an effective way that doesn’t cause further damage in the long run, like many of these big professional projects do. 

So a little background information. 

Van Clothier’s firm, Stream Dynamics, Inc., specializes in turning runoff and erosion problems into water harvesting opportunities with water harvesting earthworks, urban stormwater retrofits, and riparian and wetland restoration in both urban and wildland settings.

Van has worked extensively in New Mexico and Arizona on a variety of restoration projects with regional drylands stream restoration and water harvesting experts including Bill Zeedyk, and Brad Lancaster. He is the co-author with Bill Zeedyk of the book Let the Water Do the Work: Induced Meandering, an Evolving Method for Restoring Incised Channels, 

Recent projects include designing water harvesting stormwater retrofits for the City of Santa Fe, and restoring a very large ciénega (desert marsh) in the bootheel of New Mexico.

In today’s episode I got to speak with Bruce Kania of Floating Island International which developed their patented Biohaven floating island technology as a solution to algae-ridden and nutrient impaired waterways since 2005. Since then they´ve launched over 9,000 island systems worldwide as solutions to a variety of problems facing contaminated water. 

In this interview Bruce breaks down the chemical and biological processes that happen in the water when there’s a heavy nutrient load and how it affects the balance of oxygen and the lifeforms that depend on it. He tells me how the floating islands that he’s helped to develop work to cycle the nutrients of polluted waterways back into the food web that then fosters the beneficial life forms that are emergent elements of healthy water ecosystems and that mature to help the whole system and surrounding ecology to thrive.  We also take a look at the case study of Fish Fry Lake in Montana and how it’s gone from a polluted lake with regular algae blooms to become the most productive wild fishery in Montana where people can even swim and snorkel! Be sure to stick around till the end of the interview as Bruce explains just how big the potential of these floating wetland systems is as he’s looking to develop inhabited floating islands that help to filter and clean the great plastic garbage patches in the Pacific ocean and the possibility of creating floating solar farms that function as new real estate as well. 

Some of you may remember an interview I did with Tom Duncan about his floating wetlands and how they can be used to clean up excessive nutrients and pollutants back in season 1. Today I’ll be expanding on that technique since it´s gained a lot of traction and floating islands are popping up all over the world to help deal with contaminated rivers, lakes, and ponds. I’ll be sure to put a link to that interview in the show note on the website in case you missed it. 

For this episode I reached out to Galen Fulford, the managing director at Biomatrix Water, a biological technology company working on solutions for waterway and wastewater treatment based in Moray, Scotland. 

In this interview, Galen explains the science behind waterway contamination evaluation and the calculations they do to determine the restoration approach and techniques that are appropriate for each site. He also breaks down how their floating wetland systems work and how they compare and differ from traditional wetlands in the way they decontaminate water and provide habitat and sanctuaries for wildlife. We also explore the challenges that installing floating wetlands in urban environments can entail as well as some of the novel solutions in engineering that Biomatrix Water have developed to help their installations withstand events like floods and heavy contamination loads. 

This is a great episode for people who really want to understand the biology and engineering behind some of the most promising natural waterway remediation techniques being pioneered today. Make sure you listen all the way till the end too when Galen explains how these floating wetland systems are being applied to ecological sewage treatment and municipal water purification.

Tom had heard from many landowners and natural resource managers that it was almost impossible for someone to learn how to build a wetland, and that actually building wetlands was extremely expensive. To make matters worse, the few people building wetlands were using techniques with a success rate of less than 50-percent.

Tom learned how to build wetlands, streams, ponds, and lakes the hard way through trial and error. Building his first wetlands in Minnesota in 1979 while working for the US Forest Service, he has since built thousands of wetlands. Less than one-half of the early wetlands he built held water as planned. Over time, through much anguish and relentless work, he developed innovative techniques for constructing wetlands that are consistently 100-percent successful and low cost.

Tom Biebighauser has been enthusiastically restoring wetlands, lakes, streams, and rivers since 1979. He has designed over 10,000 wetland projects and has successfully supervised the construction of over 3,000 wetlands and streams in 26-states, 3-Canadian provinces, Mexico, New Zealand, Puerto Rico, and Taiwan. 

Tom enjoys leading workshops where participants can learn about wetland restoration by designing and constructing wetlands from start to finish. 

Tom has developed highly successful and inexpensive techniques for restoring wetlands and streams that should last forever without maintenance and that provide habitat for endangered and threatened species. 

In this interview Tom and I go into quite a lot of detail about wetlands, covering the range of configurations and biomes they appear in, and how prominent and integral to landscape health they have been in areas we now consider arid and degraded. We explore the criteria for selecting a wetland construction site, as well as the design criteria and process in order for it to fit well and function in any landscape. 

Tom also explains the all important maintenance and monitoring process once the wetland is installed and we even explore the unique opportunities that exist to integrate wetlands into farms, schools, communities, and many other managed landscapes that have traditionally drained and dismantled wetlands in the past. This episode is going to kick off a series of water focused episodes, some of which I’m bringing back from the archives because there are many new listeners who haven’t heard them and they’re worth revisiting, and new conversations as well as I look into the specific context of water management challenges and potential here in Spain and the Iberian Peninsula. I also have some exciting announcements that will be rolling out at selected intervals throughout this series. It’s still a little early to say, but I can tell you that if you’re passionate about supporting regional scale water regeneration and the possibility of turning this type of work into a career, then be sure to stay up to date during this run.

This is another special opportunity for me since she came to my farm to take soil samples for me in this year’s round of measurement and monitoring of the health and ecological function of the farm. I already have a lot of data points from ecological monitoring, and so soil microscopy adds an incredible depth and dimension to the larger story of soil health that I’m working to build.

In this episode we start with a quick review of the activities of the day and what we learned together from the initial analysis of the soil samples we took and looked at under the microscope. Isa does a wonderful job of explaining in simple terms the incredible range of life and activity that can be seen in this form of analysis as well as what it means in practical terms. She also shares her learnings and impressions from looking at soil samples from farms all over the region and what it means for the work ahead for the farmers who manage the soil.

Since that first meeting we’ve been in close contact as we both work closely with farmers in the company network to assist them in their transition to regenerative management of their farms, and Andre has gone on to manage large transition projects with multinational companies which you’ll hear about very soon. He has also traveled all over Europe making connections in the industry, attending events, and visiting renowned farmers around the continent, always facilitating connections and collaborations, many of which have led to partnerships and events with Climate Farmers. At this point he is becoming one of the best known consultants for regenerative farming in Portugal and I finally made the time to catch up with him for today’s episode. In this discussion we cover a lot of ground from the unique journey he’s taken to get to where he is now, all of the influences and mentors that he has learned from and worked alongside to build up his knowledge and skills, stories from the farmers he works with and the projects he’s helping to advance in places like the Azores islands, and much more. Together we look into trends and hurdles in the regen ag movement in Europe as a way of checking in with how far the movement has come in recent years as well as identifying where we still need to focus efforts to continue to make progress. All in all I’m just thrilled to be able to highlight Andre and his work here because he has also been an invaluable mentor and friend to me and is one of those people who I’m never surprised to find working behind the scenes of some of the most inspiring and innovative projects of recent years.

For this episode, I had the rare pleasure of hosting Meghan at my own farm, even though we’re in the middle of construction and the place is a disaster. She was passing through in between training events in my area of Catalunya, and I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to show her what my partner Alba and I are working on. In this fun and literal fireside chat, Meghan tells her unique story about her journey from running multiple newspapers in California, all the way to farming in the Basque region of northern Spain and teaching holistic land management. We talk about the broad uses and case studies of holistic planning and decision making beyond livestock and farming, the journey of starting Hub del Norte and the work they’ve been doing in the region, the challenges of lobbying for regenerative farm policy at the European Union level, and generally getting an insight into the life and work of someone dedicated to creating a transformation of the agrifood system.

We explore complementary farm enterprises to ensure regular cash flow, navigating the complexities of human relationships within a multistakeholder business, and by the end we also go over her membership and participation with the European Alliance for Regenerative Agriculture, or EARA, a new lobbying organization working to shape regenerative ag policy at the European Union level. 

Established in 2010, REVOLVE inspires climate action by keeping you informed about the circular economy, ecosystem restoration, the energy transition, sustainable mobility and water resources. 

Their latest episode focuses on the importance of soil and how to restore the health and function of soil through the perspective of researchers and practitioners. Along with Teresa Gimeno a forestry researcher with the Centro de Investigación de Ecologia y Aplicaciones Forestales or CREAF here in Catalunya, and Carlos Ortiz who works with the department of climate action at the Generalitat de Catalunya where he leads the office of fertilizers and manure treatment, were interviewed by Marta Castillo who is a journalist and communications officer with REVOLVE media. I’ll leave it there since Marta gives a great introduction to the panel and each of us as speakers right at the beginning. 

Joining me for this dive into DIY plant breeding and propagation is David Goodman, better known to his fans as David the Good. David is a gardening author and teacher, focusing on simple methods to grow the most food for the least amount of work. His blog can be found at thesurvivalgardener.com, and he is on YouTube as @davidthegood.

In this discussion we’ll take a look at what concepts and realizations helped David to find success in his early gardening and growing endeavors which he uses to this day. David is a big proponent of setting up your own plant nursery and we go into his advice for getting one set up cheaply so you can save money from the garden centers and maybe even make money with it as a side hustle.

We also explore the process of selecting varieties and species that thrive in your area and conditions, and the importance of building community through your planting and breeding efforts. 

I myself am in the process of setting up my own nursery and agroforestry system and I can vouch for the importance of starting your own plants, not only to save money, but to learn a valuable skill and potentially even increase the quality of plants you have access to.

To help me better understand these challenges and opportunities, I reached out to Jessica Robertson in Canada who has helped design and install a number of community food forests and helped to illuminate the process from her experience. 

Jessica is the Owner, Designer, and Head Grunt at Wild Craft Permaculture and a Lead Designer at United Designers International. Jessica has designed holistic permaculture systems for spaces from 200 sq. ft. to 200-acres and works on residential, commercial, and public projects. She is often involved in the implementation of these designs and loves sharing her knowledge with clients as they work alongside each other. She brings a background in biology, education, silviculture and urban planning to her work.

In this episode, Jessica shares insights from decades of experience in the permaculture world, showing how people from all walks of life can reconnect with the earth in deeper and more active ways. We'll also work carefully through the process of designing, setting up, and keeping up with community food forests, including things people often forget about and realistic expectations for maintenance. And to top it off, we'll give you some easy steps to create your own successful community food forest right in your own neighborhood.

One of the most outstanding of our collective abilities is being able to manipulate the genes and evolution of the species around us. We’ve done this with animal and plant domestication, breeding, and propagation, and more recently, with advanced technological tools. In past episodes I’ve explored the topic of landrace gardening, low tech plant breeding, and adaptation to your place and context. This is an idea that has captivated me in the last couple years and is informing a major part of the development of my own farm. 

Today I want to step out of the details of landrace plant breeding to try and understand the broader potential of what partnering with the evolutionary trajectory of selected species in our sphere of influence could look like and the mind bending possibilities that hide in that way of interacting with the environment around us. 

Here to explore this concept and give ideas based on his own experiences is Shane Simionsen. Shane is a long-time contributor to this podcast so I’ll keep his introduction short and recommend you go back to some previous episodes to hear more of his back story and work, but briefly, Shane is an Australian experimental farmer developing zero input agricultural systems and writing biological science fiction. 

In this conversation, we’ll be taking a look at what Shane sees as the essential moment in our developmental journey as a species to make use of the temporary ease and convenience of global trade to do the hard work of accelerating our close partnerships with the plants, animals, bacteria, and fungi around us. We take a look at how people from the dawn of our evolution have been doing this and how modern technology can play a role in bringing these cooperative relationships to new heights. 

We also go into the steps and actions that anyone can take to help create climate adapted food crops and maybe even tackle the next novel domestication project. Shane gives great examples of how he’s running his own tests and experiments on his farm in Queensland, AU and shares his learnings, failures and successes to help set expectations for what a landrace or breeding project entails. 

His new book “Taming the Apocalypse” is now available in digital and audiobook formats through subscription to his blog on Substack

For me though, that book is “Beyond the War on Invasive Species” by Tao Orion. Perhaps I really connected with it because of my work in the conservation corps and the collaborations with the US forestry service and National Park Service on those jobs. The fight against invasives in those circles was very present and left an impression on me in my early career. The idea of fighting against the propagation and spread of a plant or animal never sat well with me though, but I didn’t have a way of expressing my unease about it until I read this book. The world view and perspective on our role as earth stewards that Tao outlines continues to inform so much of my work and experience on my own land. So let's get into it. 

Tao Orion is the author of Beyond the War on Invasive Species: A Permaculture Approach to Ecosystem Restoration, and "“People as Purposeful and Conscientious Resource Stewards: Human Agency in a World Gone Wild” and Rethinking Wilderness and the Wild: Conflict, Conservation, and Co-Existence. Tao consults on holistic farm, forest, and restoration planning through her company Resilience Permaculture Design, LLC and works as an instructor in the Oregon State University Permaculture program. She holds a degree in agroecology and sustainable agriculture from UC Santa Cruz, and a MSc degree in Climate Change, Agriculture, and Food Security from the National University of Ireland. She lives with her husband, two children, and an array of fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, and animals on her southern Willamette Valley smallholding, Viriditas Farm.

In this interview, Tao and I dig through the ideas and examples in her first book from the origins of the concept of invasive species, through to the governmental policies that wage war on them in modern times. We look at how species migration has accelerated with human travel technologies and how their spread has mirrored the spread of global trade. Tao describes the paradoxes of demonizing opportunistic and displaced species and gives examples of how we can begin to look deeper into the reasons, conditions, and needs that bring about their proliferation to gain insight how we might look beyond eradication to collaboration in their management. We also talk about some tangible examples that I’m dealing with right now on my farm and local area in an attempt to uncover the hidden potential in the species that the authorities around me are working to control. I know I recommend a lot of books on this show, and for good reason, I stand by all of those recommendations. But if there’s one volume that you really take the time to understand and internalize in your way of observing and understanding the fast changing natural world around us, it’s this one.

Vicki Hird is the Strategic Lead on Agriculture for The Wildlife Trusts UK and was until recently Head of the Sustainable Farming Campaign for Sustain: The Alliance for Better Food and Farming. She is also a published author and runs an independent consultancy. As an experienced and award-winning environmental campaigner, researcher, writer and strategist working for the past 30 years mainly on food, farming and environmental issues and solutions, Vicki has worked on government policy for many years authored ‘Perfectly Safe to Eat? The facts on food’ in 2000, and has led teams at FoE, War on Want, WSPA and SAFE Alliance. She has co-founded many organisations including Sustain, Hackney Food Partnership and the Eating Better Alliance - and has written and campaigned extensively at a global, EU and national level. Vicki’s other passion is insects and other invertebrates and she has a Masters in Pest Management and is a Fellow of the Royal Entomological Society (FRES). Her new book – ‘Rebugging the Planet-The Remarkable Things that Insects (and Other Invertebrates) Do – and Why we need to love them more’ will be our focus of today’s conversation.

Vicki helps me to understand the significance of invertebrates in ecosystems, exploring their role, challenges, and conservation efforts. Together we go over how promoting biodiversity, sustainable practices, and community engagement is crucial to protect these essential species and support whole ecosystem health. 

We also cover practical actions that anyone can take to support insect habitats in their area such as adopting habitat-friendly gardening practices, advocating for conservation policies, and understanding the impact of individual actions on invertebrates to maintain the delicate balance of nature.

I got a window into the world of natural beekeeping back in May of 2022 when I co-hosted a Climate Farmer’s community event at Wilmer’s Gaerten, a regenerative farm just south of Berlin. Since then I've been looking for an opportunity to speak with Uli Beckman, the instructor on our course on beekeeping and management who helped me to see a whole new possibility in how to promote healthy colonies that in turn promote health ecosystems and people. This is exactly what today’s episode is all about.

Uli’s company, Beckmann Urtracht was founded in 2015 with the aim of consistently working in such a way that the beekeeper takes a back seat to the needs of the bees. Today, their principles and way of working far exceed anything required to be certified as an organic beekeeper. Natural propagation, natural honeycomb, built entirely by the bees, natural nutrition and minimal intervention are their maxims. Because with every jar of honey we hold in our hands, we must not forget that the bees did not produce it for us, but as food for themselves. Beckmann Urtracht is the alternative to maximizing yields and obtaining varietal honeys. The end result is an honest, original honey that can only be harvested in small quantities, but is outstanding in terms of quality and taste as well as its ecological and bee-friendly production. In todays conversation with Uli, we start by comparing and contrasting the conventional practices of industrial beekeeping and how they differ from the principles that guide natural beekeeping.

From there we go into the details of not only the life cycle and behavioral patterns of bees and how those inform how to manage them well, but also the practical side of building hives that promote their health and the environmental factors that present a real challenge to the future of the species. In the process we also unpack the history of beekeeping in Europe and the innovators how pioneered new management methods based on relationship over extraction. We cover advice on how to get started with your own hive and expectations of time and equipment for keeping bees too. I’m sure that by the end of this episode you’ll come to understand why many of the most influential and insightful people in the world of regenerative land management have become beekeepers themselves.

Sure, you can still find quite a few hardy old timers who know a lot about resilience and self sufficiency, but even though there is a ton of wisdom to be gleaned from those life experiences I’ve found many of them lacking in the whole picture, systems level thinking that informs a regenerative world view. I’ve been lucky enough to interview and highlight some of those voices on this show in the past, and today is another example of a person who’s work and life philosophy has been a big inspiration to me. Many of you may know Ben Falk as the developer of Whole Systems Design, LLC, his company created as a land-based response to biological and cultural extinction and the increasing separation between people and elemental things. Life as a designer, builder, ecologist, tree-tender, and backcountry traveler continually informs Ben’s integrative approach to developing landscapes and buildings. His home landscape and the WSD studio site in Vermont's Mad River Valley serve as a proving ground for the regenerative land developments featured in the projects of Whole Systems Design.

Ben studied architecture and landscape architecture at the graduate level and holds a master’s degree in land-use planning and design. He has conducted more than 650 site development and land inspection consultations across the US and abroad, and has facilitated dozens of courses on property selection, permaculture design, and resilient systems. He has given keynote addresses and presented dozens of workshops at venues ranging from Bioneers to the Omega Institute.

Ben is the author of the award-winning book The Resilient Farm and Homestead (Chelsea Green, 2013) and serves as an Advisory Council for the international regeneration group Ecosystem Restoration Camps, which is incidentally how I first got in touch with him back when I worked with that organization. Today we’ll be going beyond the typical talking points of regenerative design principles, reading the landscape and life hacks for permaculture enthusiasts, partly because we already went over them in the first interview he and I did together a couple seasons ago. Instead, Ben and I explore the reflections he has on over two decades of living the lifestyle that he designs and promotes for others. We look into the biggest learnings that have come from evolving alongside and in service to perennial food systems as well as what he might do differently if he could go back and redesign things.

Ben also explains how his life experience has informed his design work and consultancy for clients, the patterns that have emerged from the endless experiments that he’s run, and where his focus is in this stage of life, both in his family and personal life as well as his work on the land. Since I’m only in the second year of designing and building my own farmstead, I find it invaluable to gain insights into all of these reflections almost as a way to peek into one of a million possible futures in hopes of setting a solid foundation and maybe avoid some pitfalls ahead. 

Though this is hardly the most interesting part of the work for anyone I know who farms, it doesn’t change the fact that a farm is a business and in order for it to function well and enable us to do the parts that we love, we need to make sure the financial side is as healthy as the land. Here today to shed light on the unique challenges and opportunities that farmers face on the financial management side of their work is Julia Shanks. Julia works with food and agricultural entrepreneurs and organizations as a business strategist, analyst and educator. She brings a broad range of professional experiences to her clients, with a background that ranges from pilot to chef to serial entrepreneur.

She combines the practicality of an accountant with the creativity of a chef. Through her consulting practice, Julia helps food and farm businesses maximize profits and streamline operations through business planning, feasibility studies and operational audits. She provides financial management trainings to farmers and business advisors who work with farmers. Julia shares her tools and knowledge more broadly in her second book, The Farmer’s Office. This book is a practical hands-on guide to help farmers think like entrepreneurs so they can build financially sustainable businesses. 

In this episode Julia and I dig into the common pitfalls that she has observed from the farmer clients she works with and we try to unpack the myths and misconceptions about accounting and financial terms that are at the root of these mistakes. 

We take a particular look at the all-to-common debt cycles that many farmers are in as well as what it takes to get out of them. Julia also calls attention to the risks and variables that are inherent to farm enterprises before we get into the tools and resources that she considers to be essential for financial success on a farm. 

We cover a lot of ground from doing financial assessments of new ventures and investments, to ways of establishing fiscal resilience in these uncertain times.

Sara Garcia is the founder of Ecoloniza and lead designer at United Designers International. As a forest engineer and permaculture designer, she concentrates on creating ecological design solutions that integrate hydrological cycle management systems, techniques to enhance soil health, and the restoration of native plant communities and ecosystems. Through her experience, she’s learned that project success depends not only on a well-thought-out design but also on effective management, keen observation, and the ability to adapt. As a result, Sara emphasizes the importance of embracing a role as stewards of the land and actively monitoring the progress of the implemented design. I reached out to Sara originally to help me map out and understand the geology and biome of the unique little pocket of the pre-littoral mountains of Catalunya where I live, but I quickly realized I had so much more to learn from her knowledge and experience. In this episode Sara and I will talk in more detail about the history and influences that have shaped the land and life across the Iberian peninsula, both the good and the catastrophic,  as well as the trajectory we find it on in modern times. 

From there we talk about what is needed to set a new course for ecological prosperity for our region before going into the key awareness and understanding that is needed to act appropriately in any of the immensely diverse bioregions on the peninsula. With that information as a base we also go into the actions and areas of focus that anyone can take to contribute to the regeneration of our incredibly special corner of the earth. Now, some of you might be thinking, well where I live is nothing like Spain, maybe this won’t be interesting or useful to me. My reply to that would be that episodes like this where I take you along on my own journey of research and discovery in an attempt to become an integrated steward of my land and community is meant to act like a case study of the steps that anyone can take to learn more about their own place on this planet and how to actively participate in setting a new trajectory for abundant and resilient life for that space. This is one of many episodes I have planned to give you all a window into what will be a lifelong pursuit of what could be described as my efforts to become a person of place, or re indigenize myself. There are endless ways to approach this vision and so many perspectives to explore, so I’m excited to get this series started with this first conversation with Sara Garcia.

That being said, it’s such a tiny portion of the population globally that has access or ownership of any land at all, much less many multiple acres or hectares. Despìte that, there are countless examples of inspiring regeneration happening at the small scale as well. In particular the discussion on the Discord community for this show is buzzing with conversations about what members can do and what they’ve achieved on balconies, terraces, strips of land between sidewalks and roads, abandoned lots, small allotments, and little yards. Beyond those who are gardening there are tons of members who are engaged in community work, public service, volunteering and apprenticeships, and other acts of regeneration that have nothing to do with plants or soil.

Since the main purpose of this show is to highlight the abilities that any of us can cultivate, regardless of experience, location or access to resources, I wanted to highlight some of the most active and engaged members of our Discord who exemplify the potential of small initiatives that act as the seeds for transformation which blossom into the catalysts for meaningful change in their neighborhoods and local networks. Today we’ll hear from three people from very different corners of Europe. Kathryn in the UK, Bobby in Bulgaria, and Theresa in Estonia. 

Kathryn describes herself as a stubble-jumpin' Saskatchewan girl transplanted to London. When she isn't composing choral music, helping out at church, or cycling around London, she grows plenty of fruit and veg on allotments, in a churchyard and in her back garden. She likes cats and spaghetti and hates punctures.

Bobby was born and raised in a family of generational growers and agrarians. His own family of 5 lives in the western highlands of Bulgaria on a quarter acre plot, extended virtually to all the neighbors' gardens they’ve helped create. A zero input integrated garden is in the heart of their permaculture, degrowth and holistic approach to life. Growing everything from annual and perennial veggies, medicinal herbs, small fruit bushes and larger fruit and nut trees, their main yield is community and resilience via an ever deepening connection to place and people.

Therese is an experienced plant enthusiast who has been involved in gardening since childhood. She’s lived and traveled to various places around the world, creating nature-inspired gardens wherever she’s lived. Therese focuses on using local natural materials and practicing holistic cultivation methods, with an emphasis on growing edible plants and at the moment she’s growing in zone 5, in Estonia.

Their different stories and efforts are a constant source of inspiration in Discord community and I know many of you will find ideas and relatable circumstances from them that larger regeneration projects are unlikely to offer

based in the Netherlands, Weruschca the is co-founder of United Designers International and head of their project management. Her combined experience and knowledge of aesthetics, nutrition, health, and communications brings a multidisciplinary expertise to the design table.

She is seasoned in large scale project management and brings her skills to the larger ecological canvas with site science based regenerative planning and design from Adaptive Food Production, residential and commercial contexts, to Agroforestry and Municipal green space.

The aspect of community that Weruschca and I explore in this episode is focused on the inner workings and collaborations of United Designers International, the regenerative design consortium that she co founded with Dan Halsey. Their organization breaks the mold of most conventional businesses which try to hoard market share, or even freelancers that try to do everything themselves so that they don’t have to divide up the money that is coming in. Instead we explore reasons why bringing in as many people on a project is not only good for the project, but also for the people involved. 

United Designers is also world renowned for working on high profile and complex projects. Weruschca sheds light on the challenges of working on large initiatives with massive investments and many multiple stakeholders, and the way she has learned to navigate those complexities and broad considerations.  If you’ve ever wondered what the inner workings of a proposal to the UN for regional scale regeneration or the process of ecological design for a massive estate looks like, this is the episode for you.

We’ve seen examples of farms facing droughts and rural communities facing wildfire and working to recover from it. In last week’s episode with Aline from La Casa Integral, I also explored what severe drought in my local community looks like and explored the actions both ecological and community oriented to set ourselves on a new path. 

Though water cycle restoration will always be a theme on this show, today's episode is going to wrap up this personal deep dive for a little while. I believe that regular reflection on one’s learning process is essential to continued progress and today I’m joined by two people that have been major figures in my learning and growth, Nick Steiner of course, and Zach Weiss. Nick is of course the founder of Permanick water solutions and Zach is the founder of Elemental Ecosystems, project implementation company, and Water Stories his online teaching and community platform focused on building water solution awareness and education. Since both of them have appeared on this show quite a number of times I’ll skip over their introductions and instead have linked to previous episodes with them in which we explore their backstories.

We’re having this conversation at an important point for a couple reasons. Nick and I had just submitted out final project report in order to complete the professional certification, the highest tier of completion through the water stories training course, and Zach and the organization have just opened their training once again to new applicants. 

Together, the three of us reflect on our different learning journeys to get where we currently are. We discuss in depth both the obvious and less apparent skills that we each believe is essential for effective work in this space and in order to develop ourselves as true regenerative actors. 

Each one of us talks about our personal turning points and “aha moments” as well as mentors, growing pains, and areas in which we still need to improve. We cover different roles and responsibilities in the space of water restoration and how designing and installing ecosystem features is only one which we have a common passion for. We also recognize the need for so many other skill sets, experience bases, and focuses that are required to bring regeneration to the scale that is needed. 

I also really recommend that you listen to this one all the way till the end when Zach gives us a brutally honest review of our final project submission and critiques our work with no filter.

Now obviously I’m not from this area of the world myself and though I’ve built a competent understanding of my local context and the water management history of this region, I’m always looking to better understand the scope and options of what is happening in this time of climate emergency. Another big focus of mine lately has been to reach out and make connections to others in the area who are working on nature based and regenerative solutions to the challenges we face in hopes of supporting existing efforts and making myself useful to the people and organizations who’ve been working in this space for a long time. One source of unification around these efforts in my area and consistent messages of inspiration and hope come from the small company La Casa Integral, and today I had the pleasure of speaking to Aline, one of the co-founders of the company. Aline Van Moerbeke is Flemish Belgian by birth but feels most Mallorquina after spending over 20 years in San Roqueta on the island of Mallorca. She now lives with her partner Juan Pedro in the Maresme region just up the coast from Barcelona in Catalunya where they run their business La Casa Integral, a permaculture and ecological design company focused on the needs of the communities of the Balearic Islands and Northeastern Spain. Aline is also the co founder of Permacultura Mediterranea and is highly active in many networks and initiatives in the region. 

In this episode, Aline and I begin by talking about the unique journey that she took to begin a career in permaculture education and regenerative design. From there we go into the unique context behind the current drought and how Catalunya is wrestling with this challenge. Since she has made an incredible effort to participate in and lead many discussions at various levels of government, industry, and communities, she gives me an overview of the ideas and solutions that are being proposed and the entrenched ways of thinking that are holding progress back.

Through her work at La Casa Integral she and Juan Pedro have advanced many unique water saving and recycling solutions and we explore some of them and even take a closer look at natural blackwater filtration systems that they are known for designing and installing for many different use cases. 

We also talk about reasons for hope in the policy and institutional structures at our local level and explore the first steps that anyone listening can take to gain a better understanding of their own opportunities to participate in the restoration of their own water systems, at any scale. This interview is a first step towards two things that I am trying to do more of in this season. The first is to highlight the incredible work that is being done by so many local people in my area, partly to build closer relationships with them myself, partly to demonstrate that most of the really effective people in this space are not the big name famous people from your documentaries and social media threads, and partly to show what it could look like for some of you listeners to explore your own local scene of regenerative workers and advocates instead of always looking outside your communities for solutions. Many of the topics that I’m passionate about and like to focus on might not be relevant or interesting to you, but the idea of connecting with and exploring the hyper local community of like-minded people doing good work around you is more important than a couple highly effective but isolated actors. Another theme I’ll be promoting this season is that of inspiring examples of collaboration. People who break the mold of protectionist business practices, ivory tower academics, and competitive paradigms of commerce. Aline and La Casa Integral are a perfect example in my area of folks who are leading through collaboration and by including the voices and expertise of as many people as they can. Their creation and participation in countless committees, online groups, advocacy organizations, and volunteer initiatives show a true commitment to the larger vision of realizing change in our region, and I know this chat will inspire you as it did for me, even if the challenges in your region have more to do with too much water rather than too little.

One of the most established and accomplished of these farms is La Junquera, an 1100 hectare farm in one of the most environmentally challenging regions of Spain in the south eastern province of Murcia in the altiplano region. Now some of you may remember previous interviews I’ve done with Alfonzo Chico de Guzman, the owner of the farm and one of the driving forces of the Alvelal cooperative that he helped to found, but today I’ll be speaking with his wife and co-owner of the farm to get a deeper look at all the projects that she has helped to lead simultaneously. Yanniek Schoonhoven is also the co-founder of the Regeneration Academy, a physical learning hub and model farm in La Junquera, focused on building a space and community to help students become practitioners, entrepreneurs, innovators and leaders in the field of regenerative agriculture and eco-system restoration, specialized in semi-arid climates. 

Yanniek has built a reputation in the regen ag space as an expert connection builder, weaving partnerships from the local community around them in Spain all the way up to the European Union level along with universities and non-profits. All of these connections are fueling the positive change that The Regeneration Academy and the farm itself are having on the ecology as well as the human communities around them. In this session we explore the journey that led Yanniek to southern Spain and the creation of all the projects that she now helps to coordinate. Yanniek talks about the unique challenges that they face in their remote rural area as well as the climate and ecological challenges of rebuilding the capacity for life on the land there. We also dig into the connections that she’s helped to build and strengthen that have brought visibility, support, and recognition to their efforts on the ground while making it possible to include more people in their training and projects. This is also a great opportunity to announce the collaboration that I’ll be doing with them as I’ll be co-facilitating a course in the upcoming year with them about water resource management. 

At the end of the episode we give an overview of the curriculum that we’ll be teaching through a highly immersive project of gathering essential data, co creating a design for water retention on a micro watershed on their farm, and actually implementing the design on the site. 

We’ll be training participants on a wide range of tools for site design and layout as well as building experience with everything from hand tools to guiding heavy machinery in order to install the design. You can find all the details about the course which will be from April 8th-11th in the show notes for this episode on the website,

Breaking components of the whole overview down into chemistry, biology, and even down to anatomical structure, all without making the learnings accessible to soil stewards, growers and land managers. 

Such detailed science shrouded in a veil of technical jargon and research papers makes me feel that the real learnings are inaccessible and overly complicated. For that reason I’ve often held back from really going deeper into soil on this show. 

Here I hope to find the key concepts and actionable information that anyone can use to get real results, and that’s often been hard to find. 

Yet that’s exactly what brings me to today's session, where I get to speak to a soil scientist and consultant who believes, as I do, that we need to make soil concepts and principles more accessible and help to guide land managers along the way to learn how to make their own observations and discoveries in order to foster relationships or understanding with the land we take care of. 

Ian Robertson has a lifelong involvement in all things soil, growing up on an organic farm, and working in various roles helping farmers understand their soils. His present role is General Manager of Sustainable soil Management, a soil testing and consultation company in the UK. 

Over the last 20 years Ian has developed the most detailed soil test, which is widely used throughout the UK and Europe, allowing farmers a greater understanding of how best to manage their soil. Ian delivers soil presentations that are practical and engaging and he works across all sectors of agriculture to build long term relationships between himself, farmers, and their soil.

In this episode we start by exploring what aspects of soil are really essential to understand a holistic picture of the function of the earth you’re working with, as well as the best tests to gain that knowledge. Spoiler alert, many of those tests turn out to be things you can observe with your own senses. From there we dissect the three main conventional agricultural practices of tillage, fertilization, and crop protection chemicals such as herbicides and pesticides for their impact on the soil and what is really happening from a scientific perspective when they are used. 

We use that part of the discussion as a springboard towards which soil stewardship practices are broadly beneficial and represent the least amount of risk regardless of the soil type and makeup you have.

Ian’s learnings from decades and thousands of soil tests make for a very practical and digestible overview of the more detailed science out there and hopefully will act as an antidote to the overwhelming amount of information about soil out there at the moment. 

First pioneered by renowned farmer Ernst Gostch in Brazil, his integrated approach of dense planting and timed pruning and intervention to accelerate natural succession and replace outside inputs for both ecosystem regeneration and nutrient dense food production has sparked an interest in many people to adapt the concepts to their own climates and contexts.

From what I’ve heard however, adapting syntropic methods to temperate climates has proven more difficult than many people originally thought. The plants that thrive in these latitudes have different growth cycles with their long dormant period and many compete for light more than their tropical counterparts. Luckily I was able to find someone who has not only studied with Ernst closely in Brazil, but has also been pioneering syntropic systems in Germany who was able to share some key learnings from the first couple years of trial. Renke de Vries studied International Forest Ecosystem Management, and works as an agroforestry designer and consultant and in arboreal maintenance. From 2019 till 2023 he has been responsible for the design, establishment and management of syntropic agroforestry systems especially at Gut and Bosel, the famous farm in Brandenburg outside of Berlin in Germany. In this interview we go into the learnings that he brought from his formal studies in forestry and forest management and how they juxtapose with his learnings from Ernst in Brazil. 

We also dig into the systems that he has been  designing and planting and the crucial learnings in his ongoing attempts to use syntropic principles in temperate climates. Though there is still so much to learn and experiment with, I’ve been very interested to see the different iterations of what I’m convinced are very wise and widely applicable principles of ecological management from the syntropic concept. Hopefully this discussion will spark some interest in some of you to start your own agroforestry experiments. 

It’s a beautiful thing to be able to eat fresh healthy produce from your own land, but I’ve often wondered as well, how we can cross the long dark and cold period of winter, when fresh local veggies are tough to come by. Though there are quite a few volumes about season extension in the garden, I had never really come across anyone who was actively planting for deep months of winter, and so I was thrilled when I found that New Society publishers were putting out a whole book on exactly this subject. Building on years of research, experimentation, and collaboration, and co authored by Catherine Sylvestre and Jean Martin Fortier “The Winter Market Gardener” is a beautifully illustrated practical guide to winter vegetable production for small farmers growing in northern climates. 

I got to speak with Catherine Sylvestre who is a professional agronomist and director of vegetable production and leader of the market garden team at la Ferme des Quatre-Temps (The Fours Seasons Farm) in Quebec, Canada. She develops, implements, and teaches best practices for cold-season growing, specializing in crop protection and greenhouse production for northern climates.

In this episode we cover just about every focus in this very complete book, from where the interest and research into winter growing started, sources of knowledge and inspiration for their ongoing experiments into winter growing, strategies and season planning, and even sales and marketing advice for the off-season produce. Catherine also gives crucial advice on the very practical side for things like structures and season extension tools, greenhouse heating devices, disease and pest protection, harvesting and cold storage, and even lists of plants that have grown well for them as well as those which have struggled. This episode could very well be the key to extending your home production of fresh veggies, whether at home or in a market garden, for the entire year, so you may want to have a notebook for this one and follow the link in the show notes to get your own copy. 

It’s no joke how complex and difficult it can be to run a lean and profitable farm in modern times. Luckily there are some successful and experienced farmers out there who are helping to train and inform the new generation in order to support them in getting established. 

One voice in particular who I’ve admired since the release of his first book, The Lean Farm, is Ben Hartman. Though they both have a lot of experience from running their previous large scale operation, Ben along with his wife Rachel started their new venture, Clay Bottom Farm which is an urban farm, set on the north edge of Goshen, IN, in 2006. One of their key features is that all of their food is sold within 1.5 miles of the farm. 

Ben is best known for bringing the Lean methodology pioneered in factory manufacturing, to the management and process on small farms. He now has a new book out titled The Lean Micro Farm: How to Get Small, Embrace Local, Live Better, and Work Less. 

In this interview Ben shares his story of his initial passion for farming and the journey to creating a simplified and efficient operation that allowed him to enjoy a life with his family and still have hobbies while running a profitable farm. 

We discuss the criteria he uses from the Lean system to design workflows, focus energy on the tasks of highest return, and eliminate unnecessary work. 

We also go into the practical details of this ⅓ of an acre operation such as the tools he uses, his method for bed flipping in the market garden, the marketing and sales system he has, and the infrastructure that makes it all flow smoothly. 

This episode is packed with advice for growers who are looking to get small by reducing complexity and waste without compromising profitability or losing their customer base.

Today I have the pleasure of introducing two guests whose work I’ve admired for a while and who co teach a online course called low tech erosion control which focuses on the approach and techniques that are approachable for almost everyone to reverse and regenerate landscapes suffering from water erosion. 

First up, there’s Jeff Adams, who is owner/operator of TerraSophia LLC, a watershed restoration and landscape contracting firm based in Moab, UT. He has a depth of experience in permaculture, watershed rehabilitation, water harvesting, erosion control, and educational programs. With over 20 years of field experience, Jeff brings a practical and integrated approach to each project and course he does. 

Along with him we’re joined by Neil Bertrando, a regenerative specialist who has focused on integrated water harvesting, agroforestry systems, homestead production gardens with season extension, medicinal pollinator habitats, and ecological restoration for over 12 years. He has been a permaculture instructor at OSU since 2014. He holds degrees in Biology and Environmental Science and owns an ecological design and education firm, RT Permaculture, specializing in effective and regenerative landscapes. 

Together we start by digging into each of their unique paths into working in ecological restoration in the American Southwest and the Great basin regions. They each describe the challenges of their climate and context as well as the historical and current sources of degradation of the surrounding ecology that is often behind the restoration project where they work. From there we systematically walk through the site assessment process of reading the landscape and understanding the local ecology to begin the project design. 

Both Jeff and Neil describe the ways they develop a plan of action including the information they gather and how they assess different implementation strategies, especially from the low tech options and working with materials found on site. 

We also talk about one of my favorite and often overlooked aspects of project design, which is the maintenance and revision strategies over time, as well as how to design with them in mind. This discussion is full of practical advice that you can use to get started on your own watershed restoration project at a manageable scale,

Mark is Chairman of the Institute of Ecotechnics, head of Wastewater Gardens International and has worked for several decades in closed ecological system research, bioregenerative space life support, ecological engineering, restoration of damaged ecosystems, desert agriculture and wastewater recycling. Notably, Dr. Nelson was a member of the eight person “biospherian” crew for the first two year Biosphere 2 closure experiment, 1991-1993. 

The project included pioneering regenerative agriculture and waste and water recycling. Even before that, in the 1970s, he planted an organic fruit orchard at Synergia Ranch, Santa Fe NM and has helped manage its organic fruit and vegetable farm for decades. 

As Associate Editor of Life Sciences in Space Research, he is also an author and contributor for numerous books including “Pushing Our Limits: Insights from Biosphere 2”, “The Wastewater Gardener: Preserving the Planet One Flush at a Time” (2014), and “Life Under Glass: Crucial Lessons in Planetary Stewardship” (2020) by Mark and two fellow biospherians. 

I first planned out this interview withMark to focus on his work with wastewater management and gardening, but I quickly realized that it was only a small part of the work and experience in his expertise. 

As a result, we cover a lot of ground in this session ranging from the work and development on the Biosphere 2 installation and what it was like being part of the research team who lived there for two years. 

Mark talks about his work and learnings from decades of international ecological projects including those focused on wastewater management and how all these diverse places and contexts continue to inform the Ecotechnics initiatives. 

We also get around to focusing on his book “The Wastewater Gardener: Preserving the Planet One Flush at a Time” published by Synergetic Press. There we dissect the key considerations for safe harvesting and reuse of wastewater and the potential uses of it in gardens and beyond. Making use of wastewater is becoming more and more essential as the energy intensive and expensive methods of purification are quickly becoming unfeasible. Though people are becoming aware of this necessity and its potential it’s still going to require a lot more visibility to be adopted at the scale that is needed, so I hope that episodes like this will act as a catalyst to get more listeners like yourselves to consider how using waste water might fit into your own projects.

The seed savers and plant breeders who I’ve been in touch with, including quite a few who are part of the Discord community for this podcast, are working on everything from quinoa crosses for tough climate staple crop production, to the domestication of silverweed, adapted varieties for low maintenance, and so much more. For the most part though I’ve been coming across people who are doing this in their backyards and only occasionally on farms. It made me wonder if there was real potential in bringing heritage seed varieties and landrace breeding into larger operations and if it was even feasible at a large scale. Luckily, Joseph Lofthouse passed me the contact of Glenn Roberts promising that I wouldn’t regret reaching out to him and learning about the work he’s doing at Anson Mills. 

Glenn Roberts founded Anson Mills in 1998 in Charleston, South Carolina, with the vision to rematriate lost foods of the 18th and 19th century Southern Pantry. Today, Anson Mills grows and produces artisan organic landrace grain, legume and oilseed ingredients for chefs and home cooks worldwide, and provides pro bono culinary research support for chefs, pastry chefs, bakers, brewers and distillers through AM Research Labs. Anson Mills provides pro bono seed biosecurity for the growing community of Southern organic place-based identity preserved landrace crop farmers. Glenn is the recipient of the USA Artisan of the Year and National Pathfinder Awards, a founding member of the Carolina Gold Rice Foundation and a pro bono consultant to the Board of Advisors, Stone Barns Center. From that bio, you can see that I hit the jackpot in my search for production scale farms working on landrace growing projects. 

Beyond the work he’s most known for though, Glenn is a very multifaceted and multi talented individual in many other fields which he describes at the beginning of the episode. 

From there he took me through his journey of rediscovering Carolina Golden Rice, a heritage variety that he knew from his childhood but which had been all but lost by the time he grew up. Glenn also gave me a window into the process of reviving an endangered seed and food variety as well as the incredible network of people around the world studying and working on these challenges. 

We also explore the culture that is connected to our traditional foods and how reviving lost genetics is about so much more than putting a different type of seeds in the ground, but rather rediscovering how to grow these strains and the management of the land and even community that is involved in caring for this food. 

There are so many fascinating stories and ideas in this interview that open up the world and potential of landrace growing as well as a huge network and collection of resources that Glenn and his collaborators have created for those of you who might be interested in getting involved and assisting in these efforts so I really encourage you to listen through to the end on this one and to check out the links and resources in the show notes for this episode on the website as well.

John Kempf is an entrepreneur, speaker, podcast host and teacher. He is passionate about the potential of well managed agriculture ecosystems to reverse ecological degradation.

It is John’s mission to have these regenerative models of agriculture management become the mainstream globally by 2040.

In addition to being a grower, John is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture, Crop Health Labs, Ozadia, and the Regenerative Agriculture Academy. He hosts the Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, where he interviews top growers and scientists about the principles and practice of implementing regenerative agriculture on a large scale.

I had John on the show twice now and in the first conversation I didn’t know much about him or his work and so we covered many of the softball questions about things like the definition of regen ag and its importance in a new ecological food system. Since then I’ve become an avid listener of his podcast and have a much better understanding of just how important his work and that of his companies have become in leading the way in this scene. As a result I wanted to explore some of the deeper questions that very few people have enough of an overview of this movement to be able to see, and that’s exactly what we cover in this session. Together John and I navigate where regen ag  is in this current moment and the drivers that have brought it this far. John reflects on the patterns and learnings from the vast clientele of AEA about the commonalities and characteristics of successful farmers who’ve transitioned to regenerative management as well as those of the coaches and consultants that are effective in assisting them in their journeys. 

We also look into the influences outside of farming directly, the external factors that set boundaries on producers from the large food companies, retail outlets, commodities trade, investors, and politicians that wield so much power. Since John’s work is already one of my go-to sources for information on the newest innovations and state of progress for regen ag, it was a unique pleasure to be able to gain insight into his vantage point and strategy on how to bring this movement forward further.

For this reason I was thrilled to connect with Will Harris of White Oak Pastures for a second time to dig into the remarkable career he’s had and the journey of transforming his farm into one of industrial beef production to a holistically managed multi-species farm that has been a beacon of the potential of regen ag in his region. For those of you who didn’t catch the first episode I recorded with him, Will Harris is the owner of White Oak Pastures, in Georgia’s semi-tropical Coastal Plain. Described by his daughters as an “organic icon” of the Real Food movement, he is one of the very first people to bring grass-fed and humanely raised meat to the mainstream. Harris is one of the most outspoken critics of industrialized, centralized, and commoditized agriculture and is one of the most recognized leaders in the regenerative and resilient agriculture space. 

In this episode we focus on the new book that he’s just published titled A Bold Return to Giving a Damn: One Farm, Six Generations, and the Future of Food. 

We start by talking about the origins of his family’s tenure on the farm almost 150 years ago and how management and practices changed through the generations. 

From there Will shares his personal journey from following in the footsteps of his father who was a skilled industrial cattleman, to his awakening that gradually began to transform the way the farm was run. 

Along the way the town of Bluffton, GA where they’re located began to change and grow along with them and we discuss the role that White Oaks played in the revitalization of the community.

We also cover a wide range of insights from Will’s career from the challenges and hurdles that have been working against their vision from the political and industrial forces in the food system in the US, to points of hope and inspiration that make the difficulties worthwhile. 

At the same time it’s essential to be able to translate all of this advanced biology, chemistry, and even physics into information that someone from outside of academia can translate into action on the land and a soil care and fertility strategy. Thanks to another great recommendation and connection from my friend Anja at Soilify, I was put in contact with Matt Slaughter to explore this kind of practical information. For 20 years Matt has been helping farmers around the world understand their soil microbiology and finding ways to help them "bring soil back to life".

He is the Founder, President and Laboratory Director of Earthfort where he’s primarily focused on customer support through consultation and education, but is also responsible for product research and development. As the creator of Earthforts products, he is constantly striving to help customers understand and use the products to the greatest advantage of the end-users. As a scientist, philosopher, and poet, Matthew is always learning and attempting to integrate natural, holistic processes into agriculture. 

Matt was also an early student of Elaine Ingham and worked with her for years going out to consultations in remote places around the world. In this interview, Matt starts by sharing some incredible stories from those early days in the field and the key learnings that have stayed with him until this day. We talk about how he has developed the soil amendments and products that his company is known for and what he’s learned about how they work over years of study. 

We also get into a broader understanding of soil health and function as well as how it can differ across contexts and use cases. Matt gives his thoughts on many other soil amendment strategies like bio inoculants, different types of compost, biochar and the like as well as what all this research and working with farmers all around the world has taught him about the commonalities and patterns of productive soil and land. I’ve often been careful not to go too deep and academic into the topic of soil health because of how technical and unapproachable it can be, but Matt does a great job of making all the immense knowledge and experience he has simple and approachable so I know you’ll find valuable insights that you can use to develop your own soil care strategy.

Today I want to bring another perspective into this idea of building healthy and resilient food systems from a friend of mine who has been working on this by connecting stakeholders throughout the entire food value chain in Finland.

Patricia Wiklund is the CEO of Invenire, a making ideas-happen-agency working with food & the bioeconomy, circularity, biodiversity & thriving rural landscapes. She has been instrumental in creating a “living laboratory” on the Åland Islands in southwest Finland. She is also a hub leader in the Baltic region of the Savory Institute Network promoting holistic land management, and a partner in Gens, a company working for upward spiraling farm life. 

Patricia and I met almost two years ago during my work co-coordinating the first Climate Farming conference. She along with three other fascinating colleagues of hers from Finland attended the event and were my first window into the budding regenerative agriculture movement in that area of Europe, which I otherwise knew next to nothing about. 

Since then I've been looking for an opportunity to follow up with her in order to see how their projects and collaborations develop. It turns out Patricia and her team have been advancing some fascinating experiments in connecting members all through the production, processing, and retail sides of the food web in her area and this is the main focus of our conversation in this session. 

We also cover the challenges and opportunities of working in a small microcosm like the Åland islands where she works, and some of the advantages of dealing with food systems that haven’t yet been over developed and retain some of their traditional structures like local markets and diverse local production. Patricia also shares insights into how we can all work, in very tangible ways, to become active and participating citizens in our food systems instead of just consumers.

This session holds a lot of new insights and options for people who care to become more resilient on a community level in terms of food security in ways that have nothing to do with planting a veggie garden or becoming a farmer, many of which are relevant even to those of us who do produce food. 

I want to see as many people as possible find success with these plantings, and that’s why I’ve been a bit concerned by the way that many designers and landscapers oversell the benefits and expectations to people who want to plant their first fruit trees and expect to get a yield from them. 

That isn’t to say that it’s a ton of work and you shouldn’t expect to get meaningful harvests from your fruit trees, but I want to make sure that first time growers have realistic expectations of the maintenance and growth cycles of their fruit trees so they can manage the and find the success they’re looking for. 

Caring for a fruit tree or small orchard is a growing journey for both the plants themselves and the people who care for them, and to shed light on the full journey of growing fruit trees I got in touch with Suzan Poizner. 

Susan is an urban orchardist in Toronto, Canada and the author of the award-winning fruit tree care book Growing Urban Orchards. She is an instructor of Fruit Production at Niagara College in Ontario and the creator of the award-winning online fruit tree care training program at www.orchardpeople.com. Susan is also the host of The Urban Forestry Radio Show and Podcast and an ISA Certified Arborist. 

In this conversation Suzan and I talk about the differences between caring for a few fruit trees or a small community orchard in the city, and what most people associate with orchard maintenance in a farm context. 

From there we go methodically through the essential considerations of selecting fruit tree varieties for both resilience and production, planting considerations to give them the best conditions to start with, maintenance and pruning in the early years to ensure vigorous growth, tips and tricks to increase harvests and fruit quality, and a whole lot more. 

We even talk about Suzan’s learning journey in developing a community orchard and some of the unexpected challenges that came up.

There I worked under the guidance of Jake Takiff, RAD’s dryland restoration specialist and the lead designer on that job. 

I got along famously with Jake and learned a ton from working alongside him on that project. So much of his personal journey and the story of the development of his own farm and restoration design in Western Colorado didn’t make it into the episode we recorded back then, but I knew I would need to follow up and share his story with all of you.

Well we were finally able to find time and make our long overdue catch up call happen. 

So let’s start with a little intro to set the context.

Jake and his wife Meghan started Cedar Springs Farm back in 2016 on the Western Slope of Colorado where they’ve built a home and now have two children.

They are focused on building soil, fostering biodiversity and managing water. The project utilizes scaled up permaculture techniques and regenerative farming practices including silvopasture, rotational grazing and agroforestry.

The management practices have transformed the landscape from an arid, high desert into a lush system of pastures with trees and yield high quality beef and pork.

Jake also hustles as a project coordinator, consultant and field manager for Restoration Agriculture Development through which he’s had the opportunity to design and install regenerative systems for farmers all over the world.

His experience on his own farm, combined with the many installations he’s managed for clients gives him a unique perspective and approach to the regenerative farming movement.

In this conversation we’re going to unpack that approach piece by piece. We start with a little background into his first experiences in farming and the elements that clicked and have stayed with him his whole life.

We go into the key connections and learnings that have informed his growth and capabilities as a farmer and land manager, as well as the mentors that have shaped his path.

Jake shares the details of his design approach to his own farm and how the patterns of the various ecosystems where he’s farmed have helped to inform him about the hydrology, plant communities, animal communities and the essential relationship between all of them that have come together to make his medium sized farm work so well.

We also dissect some of the specifics of the experiments he’s run over the last 7 years, those that have worked, and those that haven’t, and contributed to the evolving transformation of the land that continues to get better and better. 

In general I’m a big admirer of people who have come to develop such a close and observant relationship with the land and living beings of the places they inhabit, and Jake is an exceptional example of someone who has centered his life around a deep connection to all the diverse and nuanced elements of his ecosystem from the natural ecology, his own family and local community, and even the complexities of the economy and socioeconomic realities that they participate in. 

As listeners of this show already know, I’ve explored these concepts a lot in the past but mainly from a farmer and land steward perspective, only a few times exploring the wider industry that processes, distributes, and markets the end products that most people buy. So I was curious to understand how some of the biggest food companies globally and in Europe see the concept of regenerative food systems and their roles and responsibilities within them. 

The event included three speakers, Katja Seidenschnur (the sustainability director at Nestle), Ulrike Middelhoff (Group sustainability manager at Agrana which is a large processor of food ingredients like sugar and starch), and Hans Gnauer (farmer and deputy chairman at Boden Leben, which roughly translates to Living Soil, a conservation ag consulting and education company). Together they represent perspectives from different sized food processing companies and the supply chain from field to final product. 

Since we knew we wouldn't be able to record the event itself, The night before, we got together for dinner in the little town of Reith in Tirol and recorded this conversation in a cozy little restaurant. In this case cozy also means that the old wooden benches were quite creaky and that's the sound in the background which I'm not enough of a sound engineer to have removed completely. Oh well. In this conversation with the three of them we started by talking about each of their visions for a regenerative food system and what actions and resources they think are needed to make them a reality. I picked apart a few of the answers to get beyond the easy proposals and challenge a few of the assumptions beyond them. We also go into the roadblocks and challenges that are holding these ideas back and the responsibilities that each of them and their representative companies or communities have in transforming the current food system to one that goes even beyond sustainability. I’m really glad to have had the chance to get to know each of the speakers during our event and it gave me some valuable insights into the paradigm and thought process behind each of these representative members of the food system that has changed so much of how we eat and experience food in recent decades. I really hope to continue to participate in conversations like this and help to shape the dialogue and priorities that these companies base their policies and practices on. If any of you out there would like to hear me explore any particular topic or perspective from other aspects of the food industry, you can join the conversation and make requests on our Discord community which you can sign up for for free on our website at regenerativeskills.com.

Dairy farming has been under sharp criticism in recent times. Scrutiny over everything from the appropriateness of dairy in the diet to the methane emissions of cows and the controversial practices of early separation of calves from their mothers to maximize milk production have all contributed to a diminished reputation. 

Though these critiques are very legitimate, what if there were solutions to all of them without the need to turn to non-dairy alternatives?

Today to explore these solutions is one of the leaders in regenerative dairy and a growing movement of dairy producers working to develop a new way of managing dairy cows and the pastures they coexist with. Phyllis Van Amburgh along with her husband Paul and their family are leaders in holistic land use, biodiverse cultivation, Organic dairy herd management, and more. 

Together they are dairy farmers in upstate New York, and have been involved in key innovations in the dairy industry, mostly in western parts of the world, re-integrating dairy cows as a cornerstone for ecological health and for human communities to thrive. Phyllis and Paul have also helped develop the Grass-fed certification program with NOFA-NY and PCO. 

In this interview Phyllis starts by sharing her inspiring story of transitioning away from her previous career as she and Paul embraced a gradual move into full time farming. 

We explore the intuition she had that much of the conventional wisdom and ways of doing things in the dairy industry were not really in the interest of either the cows nor the farmers and how that led them to rethink their own dairy operation. 

Phyllis outlines the key aspects they consider essential for managing a dairy herd regeneratively and the pioneering journey they’re on to make exclusively grass fed dairy cows viable through selective breeding and holistic managed grazing. 

We also explore Phyllis’ insights from her work helping large dairy operations in the USA and Europe to transition to regenerative management and the challenges and opportunities that the wider industry has to transform.

You’ll remember from last week that one of the first projects I encourage people to do when starting any land based project is to start a plant nursery. Not only will you start the long process of coaxing plants into maturity which is worth beginning as soon as possible, but you’ll also learn valuable plant care and propagation in the process. Planting your own nursery can also save you money when you eventually begin planting out your design, and if you enjoy it enough and can find a market for saplings and seedlings, you can make good money selling nursery stock as well. There are also real advantages to growing your plants in the soil and environment where they’ll live so they get the chance to acclimate rather than suffer a harsh adjustment from the heated greenhouse and chemical fertilisers so common in most plant nurseries. 

In the first portion of this episode we dove into how Akiva first began to propagate trees and his transition into making a business out of it and supporting his family by growing plants. We also got into all kinds of propagation methods and where and how to find the best materials for growing nursery stock. This week I’ll conclude this interview by exploring how to build a business around growing the plants you love, improving your soil enough that you can eliminate fertilisers and other inputs, the maintenance and care of your nursery through the different seasons, and the sales and marketing side of the business. 

One of the most common questions I get asked from listeners and clients who are starting new projects is about where to begin. Those of you familiar with permaculture will know of the common advice to live and wait a full year on your site before beginning to design and implement your vision. This time of observation and information gathering can be essential to avoiding common mistakes and preparing your place and design adequately to begin, but it can be frustrating for many people who just want to get started. For that reason, one of the first projects I encourage people to do is to start a plant nursery. Not only will you start the long process of coaxing plants into maturity which is worth beginning as soon as possible, but you’ll also learn valuable plant care and propagation in the process. Planting your own nursery can also save you money when you eventually begin planting out your design, and if you enjoy it enough and can find a market for saplings and seedlings, you can make good money selling nursery stock as well. There are also real advantages to growing your plants in the soil and environment where they’ll live so they get the chance to acclimate rather than suffer a harsh adjustment from the heated greenhouse and chemical fertilisers so common in most plant nurseries. 

In order to get a better understanding of just how easy and enjoyable it can be to start a nursery, I spoke with Akiva Silver who owns and operates Twisted Tree Farm, a homestead, nut orchard, and nursery located in Spencer, New York, where he grows around 20,000 trees per year using practices that go beyond organic. His background is in foraging, wilderness survival, and primitive skills. He has been observing nature intensively for the last 20 years, and cultivating a deep appreciation for life in that time. 

This is a longer episode for this show and it’s packed with useful and practical information so I’ve split it into two episodes. This first one dives into how Akiva first began to propagate trees and his transition into making a business out of it and supporting his family by growing plants. We also get into all kinds of propagation methods and where and how to find the best materials for growing nursery stock. Next week I’ll conclude this interview by exploring how to build a business around growing the plants you love, improving your soil enough that you can eliminate fertilisers and other inputs, the maintenance and care of your nursery through the different seasons, and the sales and marketing side of the business. 

On the other side we have people who are convinced by the data (often the same data) that we need to return to a deeper and more compassionate relationship with the earth, one that allows for us to produce a yield without compromising the ability of all other life forms to exist and thrive. In this way we can both feed the population and restore our role as environmental stewards. Rather than returning many farms to rewild, we could incorporate habitat and biodiversity into our production methods and foster the recovery of wild species in a way that enhances the resilience of our production methods. 

Instead of isolating human activity from a pristine concept of the natural world and permitting destructive actions in the remaining space, we could consider all of our necessary functions within a globally connected landscape for their potential to enhance all forms of life, not just our own. These two contrasting world views recently came to head during a debate between Allan Savory and George Monbiot. Allan represented the side of holistic management, taking into account the infinite complexity of the natural world to create management frameworks to operate with this nuance in a way that respects all the cycles and life affirming principles of our world. 

George has been an outspoken critic of this position, especially in how it relates to the management of livestock in farming, arguing that there is no potential for beneficial ecological outcomes in livestock farming, and that in order to combat the climate crisis and mass biodiversity loss, high efficiency farming must be leveraged, along with technologies such as precision fermentation, to produce plant based protein alternatives to meat. 

I’ve linked to the video recording of the debate in the show notes for this episode on the website, in order to let you make up your own mind about which side you support. I also want to express that I don’t consider these two positions, certainly not in their rigidity, as the only positions in the broader discussion. At the same time I know that anyone who has listened to more than a few episodes of this show will know which direction I lean personally. That brings me to today's interview in which I’ll be speaking with Chris Smaje. Chris is a university-based social scientist turned farmer. Has co-run a small farm and market garden for the last 20 years. Along with farming he is a dedicated voice for regenerative and locally based food systems. He's the author of 'A Small Farm Future' which articulates his vision and the details of a society built around local economies and food systems, and his most recent title, 'Saying NO to a Farm-Free Future directly confronts the popular arguments in favor of manufactured food and removing food production from the land. 

In our conversation we start by identifying the sources and advocacy of industrially produced food and farm alternatives. We break down the manipulation of data and reductionist thinking that results in conclusions that technological fixes are our only solutions. 

Chris also paints a picture of his ideas for a brighter alternative to these conclusions and what is possible in a more locally based and decentralized configuration of our sources of sustenance. 

We also dig into the active role that all of us can play in creating this alternative future and accelerate a transformation in the role of farming as well as supply and production of food to one that serves the broader community of life that we’re all connected to. 

This is one of my current favorite subjects of exploration as it is connected to so many aspects of how we live, organize ourselves, co-create culture and community, and manifest our future. I hope to explore aspects of this with many more people and perspectives in the coming months, so please, if there are people that you would like to hear me interview about these topics or if you’d like to add or challenge any of the points in the upcoming discussion, I encourage you to reach out on our discord community or to me directly at info@regenerativeskills.com

But of course today, we’ll be focusing on the cutting edge of soil science and how these new discoveries can help you in a very practical way to improve the health of the soil on your land and grow the highest quality food anywhere. 

As a follow up on the last interview we did together about his epic text book of a volume, Regenerative Soil, comes the next volume that illuminates the study of soil called Regenerative Soil Microscopy. Having read the first book is a necessary prerequisite for this volume, which goes into best practices and key observations that aspiring soil scientists and anyone who wants to know what is going on in the food web under their feet can use to tap into a world of learning through their microscope. 

As is typical of my conversations with Matt, the topics range wildly from selecting the best equipment for building your microscope lab, and ensuring you don’t go blind over time, to the way that this information has helped him advise farmers all over the world to achieve amazing crop results, to fascinating conversations he’s had with leading scientists in the field and much more. 

I admittedly don’t have a lot of prior experience with this so I went looking for experienced and successful community builders to mentor me in the process. 

One of the most helpful and inspiring people the this search put me in touch with is Klarien Klingen, one of the primary organizers of the Dutch agroecological community called Toekomstboeren which translates to future farmers and works to strengthen the connection and representation of ecological farmers in their country. 

They’ve made commendable progress in advancing awareness of their community and hosting events that connect farmers around their country in the process. Both of which are things I aspire to do with the Climate Farmers community. 

In this conversation, Klarien and I explore her own background as a farmer and what has motivated her to unite others around her. We also look into what is behind the growth and success of Toekomstboeren as well as the collaborations and alliances that have strengthened their efforts. 

I have found the information and experience I’ve gained from my consultations with Klarien to be quite universal beyond just the particularities of the farming community. Her observations and learnings ring true for many of the other community efforts and unification projects I’ve observed and been a part of.

There are no easy answers since for most growers who’ve relied on these inputs for years if not decades, there will need to be a period of transition, even if they chose regenerative management, in which their yields could suffer.

Luckily, there are a few well qualified professionals out there with a track record of guiding farmers through the challenge of transitioning their land management practices, and I had the chance to speak to three of them in a special panel discussion. In today’s session I’ll be speaking with Ian Robertson, Ben Taylor-Davies, and Ed Brown. Between these three fellas they have decades of experience at the forefront of regenerative agriculture, and continue to push the advancement of agroecological innovation at both the individual farm scale as well as the institutional level.

All three of these guys are good friends who attest to speaking to one another just about every day and you’ll hear the characteristics of their friendship come out in this insightful and also light hearted discussion.

I first met Henry Anderson through a design project that our mutual friend Juan Pablo was working on in Portugal through the Climate Farmers Pioneer program. We were looking at a feasibility test for a 50 hectare plot that some investors were considering as an investment in regenerative agriculture. Juan Pablo introduced me to Henry as a colleague who would look into all the potential for leveraging native plant communities for ecological restoration and high value crops. I was immediately impressed by Henry’s extensive knowledge of biomes and plant communities in Portugal and together we all developed a really elegant mixed agroforestry design for the clients. 

Long story short, the investment wasn’t picked up, but all three of us have been good friends ever since and now I’ve got Henry back to share some of his knowledge and experience as a biologist and designer. Henry is a Scottish multi-disciplinary designer based in Lisbon, Portugal with a background in landscape architecture, urban design and ecological planning. He has accumulated over fourteen years of professional experience working for leading architectural and landscape offices around the world, including in Australia, the Netherlands, Germany, United Kingdom and Portugal. Henry now specializes in delivering best practice regenerative solutions for landscape architecture, agriculture and ecological restoration projects within the Mediterranean biome, and follows an ecology led process that delivers multi-functional outcomes specific to each project's unique context.

In this conversation we talk at length about the process by which Henry starts to assess and investigate the state of ecological health and identify the plant and wildlife on a site, essentially his form of reading a landscape. We also look at the tools and resources that can expand the research process and give insights into historical land use and plant communities to open up more options for a design. 

Together we also dissect the concept of natural succession and how you can leverage this trajectory to enhance and speed up the development of your project, and a lot more as well.

For those of you who love the deeper science of ecology and biology, but find the academic approach to it a bit too disconnected, this is the interview for you since Henry has a unique way of explaining and making connections between the abstract concepts and real life applications.

I’ve been looking forward to today’s session for a good couple months now. 

Though it’s been years since I got excited about seed saving and heard the first little bits of the ideas around landrace gardening, I only recently got a window into its real potential. I honestly feel a bit embarrassed that I didn’t know more about landrace plant breeding until recently since it’s the reason we have pretty much all the domesticated and semi-domesticated varieties of food that you can find all over the world. It also turns out to be an incredibly approachable practice that throws out the traditional rule book of plant breeding with its meticulous adherence to detailed record keeping, isolation distances, and inbreeding.

But instead of hearing about it from me, let me introduce you to Joseph Lofthouse. Joseph adopted the principles of landrace gardening in response to the harsh growing conditions in a high-altitude, short-season, desert garden. Instead of relying on expensive poisons, labor, and materials to coddle the plants, he instead encourages genetic diversity, cross-pollination, and survival of the fittest, allowing the plants to adapt themselves to the current and ever-changing ecosystem, thus simplifying gardening and seed saving. Joseph is the author of Landrace Gardening: Food Security Through Biodiversity and Promiscuous Pollination, and he was kind enough to send me a copy ahead of this interview.

I don’t always have the chance to read the books that get sent to me by publishers and authors in their entirety, but I have to admit I ate this one up and fully got through it cover to cover. In our conversation today, Joseph and I start by uncovering his personal pathway as a farmer early on and the failures and frustrations with seeds available in the stores that led him to experiment with landrace growing. 

Not only does Joseph face many challenges in the high desert environment up at more than 5000 ft of elevation in Utah, but he also practices what he calls “vacant lot farming,” which quite literally means he’s farming on abandoned plots of poor soil. From there we get more technical by clarifying the difference between a heirloom variety, a hybrid, open pollination, and a landrace, and why it’s so important for us as growers to move away from the industrialization of seeds and plant breeding. 

I also wanted to expand on the initial knowledge around the basic concepts of landrace gardening that we explored a couple weeks ago on this show in an interview with Julia Dakin who is a collaborator of Joseph’s. Together they created the “Going to Seed” network and free online course platform to promote landrace growing and seed sharing. In that interview we covered a lot of practical information and basics, and so I will recommend that you go back and listen to it in case we’ve skipped any essentials in this session. 

So building on that previous interview we dug into some of Joseph’s personal experiences and stories from trialing hundreds of landrace projects on his farm and some of the truly unique findings and evolutions that he’s witnessed. He also offers essential insights into not only the tips and tricks that have led to his successful breeds, but also the mindset and expectations that have helped him remain open to unexpected outcomes and the patience required for growing and reproduction cycles.

Touching on a deep interest of mine within the broader topic, we also navigate the challenges and potential of landrace trees and perennial crops. Joseph has a close family connection to walnut breeding and shares insights into the legacy work that this practice is for him. Over almost 7 years of listening to different ideas and practices from so many people all over the world, I’ve identified a few that, for me anyway, hold the most potential in various aspects of ecological restoration and regenerative growing practices. For example, working to restore the hydrological function of a landscape can yield outsized results for the amount of time and resources put into it.

Capturing and propagating indigenous microorganisms has an outsized impact on long term soil regeneration.

Landrace gardening looks at the challenge of growing food in diverse conditions and ever changing variables and switches the narrative from, how do we manipulate the environment to make it conducive to grow ever more narrow plant genetics, to, how do we increase and promote the plant (and animal) genetics to become resilient to both the challenges of our current growing conditions and the ever growing variables that the future will bring.

These are the efforts that every grower around the world both knowingly and unknowingly contributed to in order to produce food in the past, and I believe it’s essential for agri-cultures to embrace them once again. 

Luckily there are a few who have shown that this is possible and are sharing their knowledge and experience and I’m thrilled to feature one of them in this session. Helen Atthowe has worked for 35 years to connect farming, food systems, land stewardship, and conservation. She currently farms and does soil- and natural enemies’ habitat- building research on her new 5-acre farm in Western Montana. Helen has an M.S. in Horticulture from Rutgers University and even studied with renowned Japanese farmer Masanobu Fukuoka. She has worked in education and research at Rutgers, the University of Arkansas, and Oregon State University and was a Horticulture Extension Agent in Montana for 17 years. Helen was a board member for the Organic Farming Research Foundation 2000-2005 and advisor for Wild Farm Alliance in 2018 & 2019. 

She first owned and operated a 30 acre certified organic vegetable/fruit farm in Montana and later co-owned with her late husband a 26 acre certified organic orchard in California. Together they then moved to a 211 acre organic farm in Eastern Oregon doing mainly orchard and vegetable production. The two of them also created educational videos on their YouTube channel called Agrarian Dreams, and did video presentations about their ecological farming methods.

She is the author of “The Ecological Farm: A Minimalist No-Till, No-Spray, Selective-Weeding, Grow-Your-Own-Fertilizer System for Organic Agriculture”. And that is exactly what we’ll be focusing on in our interview today. As a reflection of many of the discussions happening within the Climate Farmer’s community at the moment, Helen and I really dug into the unique goals she and her husband had during their farming careers and how they gauged their success. We talk about the way they measured progress on their journey towards a healthy yet low input system for both their orchard and vegetable crops as well the routines and practices that brought them the best results. Much more than just the knowledge and practices of her farming experience, Helen brings a remarkable mindset of constant learning and experimentation to this conversation that is now informing her new 5 acre project in Montana. We also cover the most important learnings that she has gained through her career and how it informs the establishment of all her new research.

For that reason I’m going to revisit the origins of this show and explain the context in which this podcast was started, how it’s evolved along with my own personal journey, and bring you up to speed about where I am currently. We’re also going to check in with my dear partner Alba who is appearing only for the second time on this show. She’s bravely confronting her self consciousness about speaking English on a recording in order to share her perspective and ask some questions, and though I doubt she’ll ever listen to this episode, I want all of you to know how much it means to me to include her in this milestone and share my gratitude for all the support and patience she’s shown me in getting to this point.

  I also get a chance to speak with my dear little sister Emily, who has been my closest friend and confidant for my whole adult life. She and her three daughters, my nieces Selma, Rawan, and Lujane are here visiting for the first time since we moved to this farm and are spending two months of the summer with us. You’ll get to hear from all of them later in this session.

By the end I’ll also share some insights into the vision for both this podcast and the broader aspects of my work that the show is contained in. As with any future vision there are a lot of variables and uncertainties, but you’ll get a peek into what I have in the works at the moment before I hopefully announce them happening in future episodes.

Even the regulatory frameworks and incentive structures can vary a lot. I’ve long since observed this as an obstacle for design frameworks like permaculture which have a solid foundation in the principles and patterns of nature, but often get lost in the details and techniques like swales, chicken tractors, or herb spirals. I’m of the opinion that we’re all overwhelmed with information and possibilities in our bizarre anthropogenic world and more options and information often only serve to make choosing and taking action tougher. 

I believe that simple and reliable processes and organizational support have a much bigger role to play in helping us to set priorities, put parameters on our options, and make the overwhelm more manageable, especially when it comes to the complexities and timescales of working with living systems. 

Lucky for me, one of my friends and respected colleagues in the permaculture space has just developed a course and accompanying tools to assist precisely in this area.

William Horvath, founder of “Permaculture Apprentice.” William studied permaculture in Australia before quitting his job as a geologist for the mining industry there and moved with his wife back to Croatia where he is originally from. 

For years now he’s been developing his own permaculture paradise and writing and educating about his experiences on his blog and through his design and consulting services through permacultureapprentice.com. He has also begun teaching permaculture courses for people looking to start their own farms and transition to a regenerative lifestyle.

In today’s session we pick apart the common hurdles that lead to inaction and paralysis despite having all the knowledge and information we may need. We talk about the common problem of having lofty goals, many projects going on at once, and limited time and resources to do them.

From there we go deep into defining the What, Where, and How of your goals in order to build them into a process. William talks about how to break them down into manageable chunks from there through phases and steps of development as well as sharing tools and advice for keeping everything organized and scheduled in calendars and to-do lists so you never miss essential windows again.

I really want to express just how important I believe that this piece of the puzzle is for all of us in reaching our goals. I know from my own experience how much getting organized, building routines, planning ahead in detail, and creating loops of experimentation, monitoring, and revision have all been in my life and in my success with clients and in business. 

Though I’ve come a long way personally, I still have a lot of learning in this area and doubling down on preparation and planning has always paid dividends for myself and those I know who excel in their chosen fields.

Before we get started, I’ll also recommend that you go over to the links in the show notes where William has given exclusive access to some of the tools and templates that feature in his course in order to get you started. 

And if any of you want to stay up on the development of the transition program I’m building for Climate Farmers, the beta program will be available for members of the Climate Farmer’s community this fall and you can sign up now on our website at climatefarmers.org.

Back in 2017 when I started this podcast I was doing an internship with my friend and mentor Charlie Rendal on bamboo building in Lake Atitlan Guatemala. I had been traveling back and forth from Guatemala for a number of years.

I had originally gone down there with a friend to learn Spanish and I ended up coming back for years to see friends and just because I love that country.

In my time there it was impossible not to get connected with all kinds of projects and initiatives to try and improve the living conditions for local people.

Guatemala is one of the poorest countries in the world, and the second poorest in Latin America by GDP. While I understand that that’s not the only meaningful metric for quality of life, there was no ignoring the fact that the opportunities and resources that I saw in most other places I traveled and had taken for granted in my life up until then were drastically lacking in most parts of that country. 

For this and many other reasons which we’ll touch briefly on in today’s conversation, everywhere you go in Guatemala you’ll find Non Governmental Organizations or NGOs as well as all types of charities and aid entities claiming to work to address everything from malnutrition to ecological challenges, sanitation, infrastructure, education and everything else in between.

It seemed like every foreigner who I met who wasn’t a backpacker worked for one of these groups and when my friends and I eventually bought a small plot of land and started to put down roots, we began to learn a lot about the aid industry all around us.

Between rumors, first hand stories, and even my own experience it became clear that more than a small percentage of these organizations were not as altruistic as they projected. It was well known that many were fronts for money laundering.

Others simply paid out large salaries for foreigners to attend events and fundraise while little worked on the ground. Stories of corrupt sequestering of funds were common, and even among these entities that were really committed to their work, I heard so much about communities having solutions forced on them with little say in the matter.

Projects getting abandoned before completion, technological fixes handed over with little or no training, and so many others I could go on about. Despite this grim picture I’m painting of the aid industry in Guate, I did get to know and make friends with a handful of people who really took the time to understand and integrate with their chosen communities before devising solutions.

I got to know folks who were also putting down roots and really had some skin in the game when it came to the outcomes of their work and impact. Today I want to take a look at one in particular, called Seeds for a Future, as much for the work they’re doing as for the approach and learnings that guide their initiative.

This organization first came to my attention when my close friend Leilani reached out to put me in touch with Daillen Culver who is their director of operations. Leilani has been on the show before and she is one of the few people I know who has traveled extensively within Guatemala and has an intimate knowledge of both the good and reprehensible aid work that is happening in that country.

So when she brought Daillen and Semillas para un Futuro to my attention, I knew it would be worth looking into. In this session both Daillen and Leilani join me to talk about the simple beginnings of this project and the unique context in which it got off the ground.

They help to outline the challenges that the communities they work with are facing and the long term approach to co-create solutions along with the people they collaborate with.

We also cover the principles that guide the progress and decisions within the project and the external challenges that Daillen and Leilani work from outside to support. Charity and aid work continue to be fraught with controversy and skepticism, and I will not make the assertion today that the approach that Seeds for a future is taking is the only effective one.

I do however appreciate the perspective and insight that both of these women bring to such a tricky subject and I hope that it will make space to continue this conversation in future episodes as well as on the Regenerative Skills Discord Community.

Luckily one of my friends and mentors who’s had an outsized influence on my educational journey and inspiration to work with farmers and land managers in helping them to make the most of the water resources has just come out with a new book. 

Many of you know Mark Shepard for his seminal book, Restoration Agriculture, I’ve also had him on this show in the past to talk about his previous book Water for Every Farm. Most recently I spoke about Mark a lot with Jake Takiff when he and I went to design and install a water retention landscape in Nicaragua as representatives of Mark’s company Restoration Agriculture Design. 

That brings us up to this point where Mark has just released the field manual to accompany the book Water for Every Farm which is intended to assist any designer or practitioner with the engineering specifications for various water retention features and earthworks. These will not only help you to ensure proper due diligence but also to navigate the jargon and regulations, specifically in the USA, that the USDA and army corps of engineers uses in order to better communicate and perhaps even find support from those entities. In this chat Mark and I explore the details of his masterline system and how it can be adapted to the needs of modern farmers at any scale. We also explore the flexibility of the design system to be relevant for diverse and complex topographies. 

For me it was also important to explore the topic of long term maintenance for earthworks and water retention features since so much emphasis is put on the design and installation, and then, due to poor maintenance planning, the project can be quickly degraded or even fall apart. With someone with over 30 years of experience, this is an essential aspect to consider.

The down time has done me a lot of good as well. Though wrangling a bunch of little kids is anything but relaxing as most of you know, it’s thoroughly fulfilling to watch them discover a few abilities and life lessons while finding their feet and bearings through this gorgeous natural environment. 

They've been learning to take care of the chickens, identify plants that we can eat, and which ones are stingy and pokey. We’ve been playing in the river and making erosion barriers. Yesterday we planted trees for a new hedge, and made some rainwater diversions in the road. 

I also had the time to have some deep conversations with my mom and sister looking ahead for what we want in our lives. My mom and dad are reaching retirement age, and they’re looking at references of my grandparents, all of whom are in their 80s with rapidly declining health. We’ve talked about how we should be taking care of ourselves and one another as we age and change from roles of care receivers to care givers. Things like risk factors, maintenance, and even graceful decline came up, all of which are very relevant to this ongoing topic of holistic health that we continue to explore in this show. 

So with that said I’m excited to bring you the second part of this conversation I had a good few years ago with my close friend and nutritionist Crystal Honeycutt. This second part focuses on the topics of supplementation for faster recovery, the nuanced definition of regenerative health and how we can rise above our low standards of health as they currently are to reach our superhuman potential.

Going hand in hand with the family time, I’ve been aware of a need to find a better balance in my home life. It goes along with this series on holistic health that I’ve been building, and both my partner Alba and I have been re-examining here at home. 

Alba has been suffering from some acute inflammation in the gut recently which has really impeded on her quality of life. In my case I’ve been flirting with burnout as I juggle between my work, the projects around the farm, and now looking after three little kids. Though I’m not in pain or discomfort, now that I’m in my mid thirties I notice that I can’t abandon my health routines and self care for as long without feeling the consequences as I did a decade ago. As a result, Alba, my sister and I have been asking ourselves questions about the necessary adjustments we need to make in areas of our diet, rest cycles, personal care, and balance of obligations to ensure that this journey is enriching and fulfilling in the long run. 

For this reason I’ve also been thinking a lot about a previous series of talks I had with my good friend Crystal Honeycutt. 

I recorded a two part discussion with her back in the early days of this show when it was still called the Abundat Edge Podcast and I was living in a little shack while I built our bamboo house on our homestead farm in the mountains of Guatemala. We went into a lot of the considerations and personal analysis that I’m now revisiting, but since I recorded a pretty decent introduction to the conversation I’ll let my highly curated podcasting voice from 2018 set us up for the interview.