Dr. Kasey Holland sits down with Dr. Catherine Clinton — licensed naturopathic physician, educator, and founder of the Quantum Biology Health Institute — to explore the emerging science of quantum biology and how our relationship with light, water, and sound can profoundly impact healing and long-term health. Drawing from her own experience being diagnosed with two autoimmune conditions and Lyme disease during medical school, Dr. Clinton shares how her healing journey led her to a deeper understanding of biology that goes far beyond the conventional chemical-mechanical model. What You'll Learn What quantum biology is and why it matters for health and healing How light — specifically morning sunlight — regulates cortisol, hormones, neurotransmitters, and the immune system Why LED and artificial light disrupts your body's circadian clock and blocks melatonin production Simple, free ways to use light as medicine every day The science of structured water and how the body creates negatively charged "liquid crystal" water at the cellular level Why hydration is about more than how much water you drink — and what makes water more bioavailable How sound, music, humming, and chanting regulate the nervous system and increase serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin, and nitric oxide Why these foundational inputs are often overlooked in chronic illness treatment plans — and why they should come first.

Guest: Dr. Catherine Clinton

Website: drcatherineclinton.com

New Book: Optimize: A Groundbreaking Seven-Step Plan to Better Health and Longevity Through Quantum Biology

Free workbook: drcatherineclinton.com/optimize

Resources Mentioned

EWG Tap Water Database (check your local water quality): ewg.org/tapwater

Gerald Pollack's research on structured water — University of Washington 2017 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine — chronobiology research

Gram Fleming & Greg Ingle — quantum mechanics in living systems (UC Berkeley)

Key Takeaways

Get outside within 30 minutes of waking for morning light exposure

Dim lights and avoid LED/blue light in the evening

Stay hydrated with clean, mineralized water

Sing, hum, or listen to music you love — daily

These habits are free, accessible, and foundational to healing — regardless of what else you're treating

In this solo episode, Dr. Kasey Holland breaks down one of the most overlooked pieces of chronic fatigue recovery — adrenal support. Whether you're bedbound, battling brain fog, or just pushing through the week, your adrenals may be the missing link in your healing.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why testing positive for Epstein-Barr Virus doesn't tell the whole story — and what most practitioners are missing
• How the HPA (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal) axis impacts your energy, immune function, and ability to fight chronic infections
• Why a "normal" cortisol test doesn't mean your adrenals are fine
• The connection between stress, EBV reactivation, and adrenal fatigue (80% of Dr. Holland's patients report stress as a trigger)
• How to check your nervous system regulation right now with a simple breathing exercise
• The naturopathic therapeutic order for adrenal support — from B vitamins and adaptogenic herbs to glandulars and low-dose hydrocortisone

Key supplements & herbs mentioned:

• B vitamins (mitochondrial + adrenal support)
• Rhodiola
• Astragalus (also supports natural killer cell function for EBV)
• Bovine glandulars
• Low-dose hydrocortisone (short-term support)

Connect with Dr. Kasey Holland:

• Website: www.drkaseyholland.com

In this episode of The Made to Heal Show, Dr. Kasey Holland sits down with Dr. Lindsey Wells, a naturopathic physician specializing in pediatric integrative care for PANS/PANDAS, autism spectrum disorder, and vector-borne diseases. Dr. Wells shares her expertise on recognizing, diagnosing, and treating these often-misunderstood conditions that affect 1 in 150-200 children.

Dr. Lindsey Wells, ND is a naturopathic physician located in Trumble, Connecticut, focusing her practice on pediatric integrative care for PANS/PANDAS, autism spectrum disorder, vector-borne disease, and other neurodevelopmental disorders. She is the immediate past president of the Connecticut Naturopathic Physician Association and a fellow of the Medical Academy of Pediatric Special Needs. Dr. Wells frequently lectures on PANS, PANDAS, and ASD to both professional and parent organizations.

• PANS (Pediatric Acute-Onset Neuropsychiatric Syndrome): Triggered by various infections including mycoplasma, viruses, and bacteria
• PANDAS (Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorder Associated with Streptococcus): Specifically triggered by strep infections
• Affects approximately 1 in 150-200 children—more common than most people think

• Sudden, acute onset of OCD
• Abrupt anxiety and separation anxiety
• Tics
• Restrictive eating patterns
• Urinary urgency, frequency, or bedwetting
• Speech disfluency (stuttering, regression to baby talk)
• Changes in handwriting

• Clinical diagnosis based on medical history and symptom presentation
• No single lab test confirms or rules out PANS/PANDAS
• Comprehensive testing includes:
  • Strep antibodies
  • Mycoplasma testing
  • Vector-borne disease screening (Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia)
  • Nutritional markers
  • Inflammatory markers
  • Cerebral folate deficiency antibodies

1. Symptom Support: Providing immediate relief for the child and family
2. Antimicrobial Support: Addressing underlying infections with appropriate treatment
3. Immunomodulatory Support: Reducing inflammation and supporting immune function

• Bartonella: Primary indicator is rage and aggression
• Babesia: Presents with dysautonomia symptoms, air hunger, sound sensitivities
• Not currently included in PANS diagnostic criteria but critically important to test
• Strong overlap between vector-borne disease and neurodevelopmental disorders including autism

• Puberty: Hormonal changes can help with immune regulation
• Blood-brain barrier closure: Age 21 for females, age 24 for males
• Goal is to manage and decrease severity, frequency, and duration of flares until resolution

• Ibuprofen trial: If symptoms improve with ibuprofen (10mg/kg, up to 600mg per dose), it indicates immune-mediated condition rather than primary behavioral issue

• Focus on adding antimicrobial foods: garlic, oregano, thyme, rosemary, turmeric, onions
• Increase healthy oils: extra virgin olive oil, coconut oil
• Consider eliminating gluten and dairy if possible
• Watch for food cravings (may indicate sensitivity)
• Increase fiber and protein intake
• Ensure adequate vitamin D, A, zinc, iron, and ferritin levels

• Trust your instincts—you know your child best
• Sudden behavioral changes warrant investigation
• Anxiety medication alone won't address underlying immune/infection issues
• Work with a provider who truly understands PANS/PANDAS
• Maintain the three-pronged approach even during maintenance phase
• Take care of yourself—when you're regulated, your child does better

Connect with Dr. Lindsay Wells:

• Website: lindseywellsnd.com
• Instagram: @lindseywellsnd
• Practice: Wells Natural Medicine (Trumble, Connecticut)

Guest: Dr. Michelle Eisenmann, DC, DACNB Host: Dr. Kasey Holland Episode Length: 50 minutes

Dr. Michelle Eisenmann is a functional neurologist with a unique perspective shaped by personal experience. She holds a doctorate in chiropractic from Parker University, a master's degree in clinical neurology, and is board certified by the American Chiropractic Neurology Board (DACNB). She also has a bachelor's degree in kinesiology from the University of North Texas.

Her clinical focus includes:

• Neuroplasticity
• Traumatic brain injury (TBI)
• Post-stroke rehabilitation
• Vestibular dysfunction
• Dysautonomia
• Movement disorders

Dr. Eisenmann practices at Resiliency Brain Health in Hoppel, Texas (near DFW Airport) and offers online coaching through her Brain Charge program. She provides services in both English and Spanish.

Dr. Eisenmann's path to functional neurology began with her family history. Her mother was a four-time cancer survivor who also lived with Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease, a peripheral neuropathy that affected three of her four aunts. Growing up as both daughter and caretaker, Dr. Eisenmann witnessed firsthand the limitations of conventional medicine's "see you in six months" approach.

The turning point came when she discovered functional neurology through an online case study of a hemiplegic boy (meaning half his body wasn't working) who returned to playing soccer after receiving non-invasive neurological therapies. This stood in stark contrast to the invasive treatments her mother had endured.

Her personal connection to brain injuries deepened when she learned about her grandfather's traumatic brain injury from explosives during the Korean War, and when she realized she had suffered an undiagnosed concussion during her cheerleading years. Her bar for healthcare had been set so low—"if I don't have cancer, I'm good"—that she didn't recognize her own injury.

One of Dr. Eisenmann's most important messages is removing the word "trauma" from traumatic brain injury. The word psychologically creates a barrier—we assume only dramatic accidents count as brain injuries. The reality is far different.

Who can get a brain injury? Anyone.

Examples include:

• Sports injuries
• Motor vehicle accidents
• Slipping in the shower
• Falls
• Blast exposures (veterans)
• Even seemingly minor impacts

The critical question isn't "Did I have an injury?" but rather "How did my brain recover?"

Brain recovery depends on multiple factors:

• Nutrition at time of injury
• Gender
• Stress levels during injury
• Overall brain resilience
• Pre-existing conditions

A concussion is simply another term for mild traumatic brain injury. The spectrum includes mild, moderate, and severe TBIs. Just because an MRI or CT scan comes back clear doesn't mean someone is healed. These imaging tools show structural damage but miss functional impairments.

Dr. Eisenmann advocates for treating brain health like dental health—regular check-ups and maintenance rather than waiting for a crisis. The brain is our operating system, one of the first things to develop and the last to go. It deserves consistent, proactive care.

Traditional medicine focuses on ruling out life-threatening structural issues: bleeds, swelling, skull fractures. Once those are cleared, patients are often told they're "fine." But functional impairments can persist for years.

We don't treat our brains the way we treat other injuries. If you had a knee injury, you wouldn't expect to run a marathon a month later. Yet we expect our brains to perform at high levels immediately after injury—even during menstruation, postpartum periods, or times of high stress.

The hidden dimension Dr. Holland emphasizes is that brain injuries aren't just physical. They affect:

• Blood-brain barrier integrity
• Immune system function
• Susceptibility to infections
• Processing of toxins
• Stress responses

She shares examples of patients who developed Lyme disease seemingly "out of nowhere," only to reveal during conversation that they'd been in a car accident months earlier. The injury compromised their immune systems and blood-brain barriers, making them vulnerable to opportunistic infections.

Functional neurology uses a rehabilitation model rather than a pharmaceutical one. It's about relearning, reconnecting, and retraining the brain through targeted stimulation and feedback.

Assessment areas include:

• Motor movement and coordination
• Reaction time
• Eye movements
• Balance and vestibular function
• Cognition
• Gait patterns

Treatment modalities range from high-tech to remarkably simple:

High-tech options:

• Gyro stem (vestibular rehabilitation device that looks like an astronaut ride)
• TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation)
• VR headsets for virtual reality therapy
• Whole body vibration platforms
• Various electrical modalities (TENS units)
• Red light therapy

Simple but effective tools:

• Popsicle sticks with targets for eye tracking
• Gait training (learning to walk properly)
• Chiropractic adjustments

The beauty of functional neurology isn't always what you're doing, but how you're doing it. Frequency, intensity, quality of movement, and feedback all matter tremendously.

Dr. Eisenmann emphasizes that treatment is personalized, not protocol-based. "What do you need at this point?" is the guiding question. No profession is an end-all-be-all. Patients may work with occupational therapists, physical therapists, and functional neurologists at different stages of recovery.

If stranded on an island with only one therapy? Dr. Eisenmann chooses chiropractic hands down. Spinal mobility is the foundation of independence. If you can't move your spine, you're dependent on others, which means you're not moving, exercising, or feeding yourself properly.

This is where Dr. Eisenmann's and Dr. Holland's worlds beautifully intersect.

When therapy isn't producing expected improvements—when you're "flipping the light switch but the lights don't come on"—it's time to investigate metabolics and look for chronic infections.

The two-way street:

• A traumatic brain injury makes you much more susceptible to acquiring infections like Epstein-Barr virus, Lyme disease, or cytomegalovirus
• Conversely, a dormant infection can reactivate after a TBI when the immune system plummets and the blood-brain barrier opens

"They're called opportunistic infections for a reason. They're like, 'Ooh, opportunity, let's go.'"

Dr. Eisenmann shares a case of a gentleman with cerebellar autoimmunity directly correlated to infections following his traumatic brain injury. While he sees improvement with therapy, the goal is long-lasting improvement, not riding a wave of good periods followed by crashes.

Warning signs you need to dig deeper:

• Working really hard to get better but feeling like you're walking a tightrope
• Stepping off the improvement path and unable to get back
• Cyclical patterns of good and bad

Check for infections in: teeth, lungs, bladder, and systemic viral/bacterial infections.

Six years post-pandemic, we're starting to understand how COVID truly impacts brain health long-term. Dr. Eisenmann sees the TBI-infection connection frequently in her practice.

COVID can present as an acquired brain injury (ABI), much like hypoxia (lack of oxygen). Viruses don't just cause temporary illness—they can affect neurology, trigger autoimmunity, and create lasting dysregulation.

The silver lining? COVID has brought increased awareness and collaboration. Patients are being taken more seriously. Post-COVID programs are implementing physical therapy and occupational therapy more routinely. Functional neurology needs to be added to that list.

When asked about practical daily strategies for brain health, Dr. Eisenmann gives two answers that might seem anticlimactic—but they're the foundation everything else builds on.

This is the one thing you have control over daily that sets you up for success.

Dr. Eisenmann's hot take: She does not believe in intermittent fasting or fasting for people with traumatic brain injuries who have uncontrolled blood sugar. It's not a one-size-fits-all approach. Neural circuits, immune health, and other systems need to be in line first for fasting to be beneficial.

Blood sugar regulation matters more than:

• Cold plunging
• Brushing teeth with your non-dominant hand
• Single-leg stands
• Exercise regimens
• Taking creatine

"None of that matters if your blood sugar is unregulated."

Warning signs of unregulated blood sugar:

• Getting hangry (hungry + angry)
• Getting sleepy after eating
• Waking up in the middle of the night to urinate

What to do:

• Look at your plate composition—is it too carb-heavy?
• Include fiber and protein
• Consider ketogenic or Mediterranean diets for seasons (not necessarily forever)
• Eat regularly rather than skipping meals

Dr. Holland adds critical context: When blood sugar crashes, your brain and adrenals think you're starving. They activate the same fight-or-flight stress response as if there's a physical threat. This has lasting effects:

• Cortisol release
• Sleep disruption
• Impaired glymphatic system function (brain's waste clearance)
• A snowball effect of downstream problems

For people with TBIs, the brain is already working overtime to protect you. Unregulated blood sugar adds unnecessary burden.

Circadian rhythm optimization is crucial. Dr. Eisenmann references Dr. Andrew Huberman's extensive work on this topic.

What this means:

• Pair your activity level with sunlight
• Get bright light exposure in the morning
• Dim lights in the evening
• Avoid overhead lighting when the sun is down
• Use red light at night

Dr. Eisenmann's household practices what she preaches: "When the sun is gone, we pretty much are in red light, like crazy bats." She credits this with why her daughter slept so well early on.

For night workers or new moms, this might not be perfectly achievable, and that's okay—things happen for seasons. But aligning with natural light cycles as much as possible supports:

• Hormonal regulation
• Sleep quality
• Immune function
• Overall brain health

A powerful theme emerges: Your brain loves you. Your body naturally detoxifies and returns to homeostasis—when it's not overwhelmed.

Why not remove the burden of:

• Unregulated blood sugar
• Wacky circadian rhythms

And allow your body to do what it naturally wants to do?

People often believe they need to be constantly taking an "anti-something"—antivirals, antimicrobials, antibiotics. Sometimes that's necessary. But sometimes the answer is: Let's get your body in a state where it doesn't have to fight those battles. See what happens. Then assess what else might be needed.

"It is incredible the amount of people that I've seen just from that. They were like a horse. They weren't a zebra."

Translation: The solution was simple, not exotic or complex.

Dysautonomia is a hot topic, especially in post-viral and chronic illness communities. Dr. Eisenmann brings a unique perspective.

First, what dysautonomia is NOT:

It's not like Epstein-Barr virus—something you "catch" or "have forever." It's a neurological system, and talking about it as a fixed diagnosis creates confusion between "having this diagnosis" versus "needing rehabilitation."

What's often missed:

The autonomic nervous system controls output:

• Heart rate
• Respiration
• Pupillary dilation and constriction
• Digestion
• And much more

But how does it do that? It needs integration from:

• Eyes
• Vestibular system (balance)
• Neurodevelopmental foundations

If your eyes can't track a dot properly, if you don't have good vestibular function, if your brain doesn't understand gravitational positioning (what's up vs. down), your autonomic system will struggle.

Common dysautonomia symptoms explained:

• Feeling weight in your back
• Slumping all the time
• People constantly telling you to "sit straight" but you just can't
• Feeling like your center of pressure is off

These may indicate sensory integration issues, not just a heart problem.

The concussion/brain injury lens:

Dysautonomia may need to be viewed through the lens of brain injury. It's not just about:

• Salt intake
• Compression socks
• Medications

It's about:

• Rehabilitating eye movements
• Restoring vestibular function
• Addressing sensory integration
• Sometimes addressing viral triggers

Viruses can trigger dysautonomia, then shift eye movements, which compounds the dysautonomia. The lingering infection affects neurology even without a traumatic brain injury present. This is an acquired brain injury (ABI), much like hypoxia.

The rehabilitation message:

"A lot of these cases can be rehabbed. A lot of these things can improve."

It's a wild ride because the autonomic nervous system is a seesaw between parasympathetic (rest and digest) and sympathetic (fight or flight). You might feel like you're on a rollercoaster you asked permission to get on. But improvement is possible.

The collaboration imperative:

Dr. Eisenmann works with cardiologists to co-manage patients. An EKG doesn't hurt—rule out cardiac issues. But dysautonomia is confusing because people think "heart problem = cardiologist only." The nervous system connection is often overlooked.

One of the most powerful segments addresses patient empowerment.

The common trap:

People are overwhelmed by symptoms. They desperately want validation and answers. Finally, they get a diagnosis—POTS, dysautonomia, whatever it may be. In conventional medicine, the response is often: "You have this. Here are medications to make it less symptomatic. That's your identity now."

Rehabilitation and alternative approaches often aren't mentioned or known. Many people are sick for 10-15 years before hearing about functional neurology or integrative approaches.

Dr. Eisenmann's challenge to patients:

"Make your doctor work. Make them work. Don't just take a diagnosis. Ask: What do I do next?"

If the answer is only medication, you're allowed to ask more questions. They're working for you.

Questions to ask:

• Is there any therapy I can do that you would recommend?
• Do you know of anyone who specializes in this?
• Can you refer me to someone?

Your doctor is responsible for making connections with other practitioners. They should have a referral system to know:

• When do you need someone else?
• When am I the one who's supposed to help you?

"They're not supposed to keep you forever because you're not meant to be kept forever."

Dr. Eisenmann sees dysautonomia diagnoses daily. When she asks what's being done, the answer is often: "They haven't referred me out. They haven't done anything. They don't have solutions."

Ask "why" like a toddler:

Dr. Holland adds her approach: Keep asking "why." Don't stop at surface explanations.

• "It's because of this infection."
• But why? Is that infection even active?
• Because it's opportunistic.
• But why is your body susceptible?
• What's driving the imbalance?
• Why isn't the body in homeostasis?

Get to root causes, not just symptoms or labels.

Despite the devastation of the pandemic, both doctors see a positive shift:

• Increased collaboration between practitioners
• Patients being taken more seriously
• Post-COVID programs implementing physical therapy and occupational therapy more routinely
• Recognition that viruses can present as brain injuries
• Acknowledgment that infections can affect entire body systems and nervous systems

Functional neurology should be added to standard post-viral rehabilitation programs.

Resiliency Brain Health

• Location: Hoppel, Texas (8 minutes from DFW Airport)
• Open concept clinic with a family atmosphere
• Services in English and Spanish
• Walk-ins welcome for tours

Not local? Dr. Eisenmann maintains a referral network across the US, including Florida, North Carolina, and California. Call the clinic to ask for referrals in your area.

Brain Charge Online Coaching

• For those unable to travel regularly
• For people in rural areas without local functional neurology support
• Provides foundation-level support to get you to the next step
• Contact: info@resiliencybh.com

[0:45] - Introduction & Dr. Anderson's Background

• Dr. Anderson's credentials and experience
• Focus on complex infectious, chronic, and oncologic illness
• Background in IV therapies and cancer research

[2:54] - How Dr. Anderson Got Into COVID Research

• Early observations of post-COVID syndrome
• Similarities to other chronic infectious illnesses
• Pattern recognition from previous infections

[6:39] - Comparing COVID to Other Infections

• Similarities to Epstein-Barr virus and cytomegalovirus
• Lyme disease and immune shifting patterns
• Furin cleavage sites and immune disruption

[11:15] - Understanding Immune Dysregulation

• Why COVID creates prolonged inflammation
• The missing "resolution phase" in immune response
• How this differs from typical influenza recovery

[11:44] - Spike Protein Explained

• Spike protein from infection vs. vaccination
• How spike protein affects the immune system
• Duration of spike protein presence in the body

[18:19] - Defining Long COVID Symptoms

• Wide variety of individual presentations
• Importance of testing for spike protein levels

[19:30] - Testing for Long COVID

• SARS-CoV-2 [S - protein] semi-quantitative total antibody spike test
• Understanding test results (hundreds vs. thousands)
• Available through LabCorp

[25:17] - Baseline Health Markers

• Importance of comprehensive testing
• Hormonal, liver, kidney function assessment
• Looking at overall health beyond spike protein

[27:15] - Treatment Approaches for Spike Protein

• Two main pathways: blocking/binding and degradation
• Combination of drug and natural therapies

[31:36] - Blocking and Binding Therapies

• Ivermectin as immunomodulatory agent
• Natural options: quercetin, curcumin, flavonoids
• Milk thistle for liver protection and anti-inflammatory effects

[33:30] - Degrading Spike Protein

• Enzyme therapy with nattokinase
• Dual benefit: reducing clotting and breaking down spike protein
• Addressing micro-clot formation

[35:38] - Advanced Treatment: Plasmapheresis

• Total plasma exchange (TPE) explained
• How the procedure works
• When to consider this intensive therapy

[39:29] - Plasmapheresis Process Details

• Cell separation and plasma removal
• Albumin replacement
• Treatment intervals (4-8 weeks between sessions)
• Growing availability of outpatient centers

[41:01] - Alternative: Plasma Donation

• Less intensive option than full plasmapheresis
• Repeated donations can lower toxin/protein levels
• Study in firefighters showing effectiveness

[44:12] - Treatment Experience and Recovery

• First two treatments are most intense
• Importance of supportive therapies between sessions
• Antioxidant support and nutrition

[44:32] - Final Thoughts and Resources

• Importance of baseline testing
• Escalating treatment approach
• Hope for recovery with proper treatment
• Dr. Anderson's YouTube channel and webinar series

[48:43] - Closing Remarks

1. Long COVID involves immune dysregulation and spike protein persistence
2. Testing is crucial: SARS-CoV-2 S- Protein semi-quantitative antibody test
3. Treatment requires addressing both spike protein AND comorbidities
4. Multiple treatment options available from natural therapies to advanced plasmapheresis
5. Recovery is possible but requires comprehensive, escalating approach

• Dr. Anderson's research paper (139 references)
• YouTube channel for patient education
• Monthly webinar series for healthcare providers
• Plasmapheresis centers (search: "TPE plasma")

A comprehensive review of definitions, pathogenesis, diagnostics, and evidence-based therapeutic approaches for managing Long-COVID and post-vaccination syndromes in clinical practice.

LabCorp Testing

Quest DIagnostics Testing

Boston Heart Diagnostics Testing

Dr. Crista breaks down: • Why mold illness is so often overlooked or misdiagnosed • The key symptoms that signal biotoxin exposure • How mold disrupts the immune system, hormones, and brain • Practical steps patients can take early on to support healing • What a comprehensive, root-cause recovery plan should include

Whether you're navigating mold toxicity yourself or supporting patients through recovery, this conversation offers clarity, validation, and actionable guidance from one of the best in the field.

Listen in to learn how you can reclaim your health, reduce overwhelm, and move forward with confidence on your healing journey.

In my medical background, I also spent a lot of time in research, and so one thing that I do a lot with patients is talk about their labs and understanding their. Blood work, and I still constantly get a lot of questions in this area. So in this episode, I wanna talk about immunology and what it means when we have opportunistic infections.

If you know me at all, you know that a lot of my work has had to do with Epstein Barr virus and Epstein Barr virus reactivation, and that is considered an opportunistic infection. So I wanna unpack this, help you understand what's going on in your immune system, what it means when there's an opportunistic infection, what the labs are actually saying, what we have to decide based on your symptoms and presentation and what it looks like to overcome opportunistic infections.

Okay? Opportunistic infection. What does that mean? An opportunistic infection means that. If your immune system is operating properly and all things are good that you really should not have a problem with that infection. Common opportunistic infections that we see are herpes family viruses, so think HSV one where you get the sore HSV two in the genital area.

Epstein bar virus is also an opportunistic infection. The thing about opportunistic infections is that they are very common. So greater than 95% of people will have been exposed to Epstein-Barr virus by the time they are an adult. And I can say the same thing with HSV one and HSV two. Most everybody comes into contact with these viruses and then what happens when some people still have problems with them now?

I just talked a lot about viruses. There's also opportunistic infections that are fungal, like candida and bacteria like mycoplasma, pneumonia, and this family of infections. A lot of times if you have an opportunistic viral infection, you might also be carrying a fungal or a bacterial, and it makes sense, right?

Because. If you're susceptible to an opportunistic viral infection, whatever is going on in your body means that you might also be more susceptible to a bacterial or fungal. So let's talk about the labs and the testing for these opportunistic infections and what that looks like, because I think that labs.

Are so easy to understand when it's the first time that you've had an infection and it's a, yes, it's positive. No it's not. But when we get into this realm of opportunistic infections and you have chronic fatigue for years, or these symptoms that just aren't going away, or maybe you have a herpes flare up multiple times per month, and it's, it's like, how do standard labs help with that?

Here's the problem, so. In a conventional setting and that acute setting where it's the first time that you've been exposed to that virus, it's pretty simple. You're going to have a blood draw and the labs come back. And typically what you'll see if it's in that acute setting and the first time that you have had that infection, is your IGM antibodies will be positive.

So M think of them as the mama antibodies. They're the first antibodies that respond to an infection. They typically stay positive acutely, and then they go negative. And your IgG antibodies are gonna pop up. And these antibodies can be confusing for labs because they can stay positive for a really long time.

But that is part of how your. Immune system creates memory of what it's seen so that when it gets exposed to a virus, it can respond very quickly. You don't get sick, right? Um, or maybe you have, you know, a very, very short illness, but this memory is what makes our immune system strong. And so when. We look at this on the labs, it becomes really difficult when we have these opportunistic infections because typically when you test for opportunistic infections, you look at IGM and IgG.

Now, a lot of times that IgG will stay elevated a little bit throughout life because again, it's that memory response. So what happens when. You have, let's use a herpes flare for an example. What happens when you are getting acute herpes flares once a month, twice a month, and you go to test the IGM is negative because, okay, you know, you've had this infection before, but the IgG is positive.

But then what does that tell you? Because, well. Obviously it's positive because you've had it before, but you know that your body is still responding to this infection because you have the lesions and the symptoms to prove it. Typically, and a lot of times in these instances, the IGG will be really, really high normal, not just a mild elevation for memory, but a very, very, very high normal.

Sometimes it really depends on what lab company you're using, but it can be 10 times to a hundred times the upper limit of normal. And then you also have the symptoms, and that means, okay, your body is having difficulty handling this opportunistic infection and needs. Support, and that's in my clinical practice when we treat it.

I think that the herpes example is a good example because it's a really obvious symptom that yes, you, you have the herpes lesions, one common infection, the Epstein bar virus. It's not, it's, it's not that straightforward because fatigue is more of a vague. Symptom that could be caused by a lot of things.

And so oftentimes doctors will say, well, that doesn't mean that you have a reactivation. Uh, there's other labs as well, like the early antigen that can be helpful. But again, that only stays positive typically for a certain amount of time. So that can be negative. And in my clinical practice, you can still be dealing with that reactivation.

So that's where it gets all gray and where it can be really helpful to work with somebody that specializes in opportunistic infections and looking at really what's important to look at is your symptoms and, and your history and what's working treatment wise and what's not and what's going on. But what I wanna talk about, now that we understand that.

Foundation of op opportunistic infections and, and what's going on with the immunology there and why that is confusing in that IGM versus IgG. I wanna talk about what do you do about opportunistic infections, because I oftentimes have patients that have the fungal load, the viral load, and bacterial load opportunistic infections.

Oftentimes the. When patients have fatigue, especially since COVID-19, the Epstein Bar virus is tested more regularly now, and that's positive. And then doctors will kind of just stop and be like, okay, that's the problem. It's the Epstein Bar virus. But for me, when I find one opportunistic infection positive, I think there's probably more because that is a sign that your body's immune system and your body's state.

Is not, is not handling an opportunistic infection, which the definition literally is typically there in immunocompromised or a weakened immune system. So if you just take the medication, whether it's a pharmaceutical or a natural antiviral, whatever, it's if you just take that and don't do anything else.

The state of your immune function in biochemistry isn't necessarily going to change, and you're probably still gonna be dealing with that infection. Now. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the, maybe it's an antiviral or an antimicrobial or antifungal. It doesn't mean you don't need that, and you probably do need that to, uh, to help your body overcome that, but.

You need to do more. We need to ask why this opportunistic infection is there. And the other thing is that we need to set you up for success. So these herpes family viruses that are really common with opportunistic infections, once they're in the body, the way that they integrate with the body cellularly, they're going to be there.

So as you go throughout your life, there might be times where that viral load goes up and down and up and down, and people will say, I have a flare up. I don't feel good. Things like that. And that's because that opportunistic infection is still there and your symptoms are telling us that, oh, now it's not handling it well again, so we need.

To address that we need to not just look at this infection, we need to look at what's around it so that your body can overcome it. And this is what is oftentimes missing in patient care and treatment plans that leaves you sick for a long time. And in upcoming episodes, we're going to talk about all sorts of things that can impact.

Your immune response, your oxidative stress levels. Oxidative stress levels are a sign of how your body is processing reactive oxygenation species. We come into toxins, stress all, all throughout our environment and our body has to be able to respond and clear out that any damage that happens, and it uses antioxidants to do that when there's more.

Reactive oxygenation species activity, more toxicity, more stress than there is antioxidants in the body to be able to handle it. We see elevated oxidative stress levels in the body. It's also what causes aging. So think of, you know, rest on a nail aging, things like that. But when we reach that point and those oxidative stress levels are really high, that can also set you up for opportunistic infections.

A lot of times in conventional medicine it's like, oh, only in the elderly or immunocompromised people that have had, uh, maybe cancer treatment, things like that. That's kind of what is thought of with immunocompromised, but there's such a spectrum of how well immune systems are functioning today, and in order to really hone in and prevent these opportunistic infections.

Which we are learning is becoming increasingly important as we see more and more research coming out, linking Epstein Barr virus to multiple autoimmune conditions. Uh, a very close link with multiple sclerosis, which we'll talk about that in an upcoming episode as well. Uh, but it's important to regulate these opportunistic infections because when they are active, they turn on inflammatory pathways that promote disease.

So we have to address the bugs, but we also have to address why the bug is active, and that is the key to resilient health and making it so that. The opportunistic infection can be there, but you still feel good and you aren't having symptoms. So that is a lot of what we are going to spend time doing on the Made Teel Show is looking at things that leave you vulnerable and the traditional thought of immunocompromised versus healthy.

There's a whole spectrum in between where you can be not operating. Really in a healthy way and have a weakened immune system. Maybe. Maybe your white blood cell count hangs out at four, and that doesn't flag red on the lab, but it's always that low normal, that's a sign that your immune system is burdened.

And so as we look at this, I, we have to shift our focus of not just immune compromised versus. Good immune, but the whole spectrum in between. And look at it on an individual basis of what you have been exposed to, how your body is handling it, what, what your genetics are, what your family history is, what your daily life is, what your stress is like, what infections, what toxins you've been exposed to.

What's going on in your gut are your adrenals and your thyroid working. All of that plays hugely into opportunistic infections and so. We have to address all of those to fully overcome these pesky opportunistic infections. Thank you for joining me in this short solo episode on Opportunistic Infections on the Made to Heal Show.

Be well.

 Welcome to the Made to Heal Show. I'm Dr. Kasey Holland, the host of Made To Heal. On this show, we discuss complex chronic illness, complex medical conditions, mystery symptoms, and their root causes. And ultimately your body's innate ability to overcome them. In this episode, we are going to be talking about opportunistic infections and diving into what exactly that means.

In my medical background, I also spent a lot of time in research, and so one thing that I do a lot with patients is talk about their labs and understanding their. Blood work, and I still constantly get a lot of questions in this area. So in this episode, I wanna talk about immunology and what it means when we have opportunistic infections.

If you know me at all, you know that a lot of my work has had to do with Epstein Barr virus and Epstein Barr virus reactivation, and that is considered an opportunistic infection. So I wanna unpack this, help you understand what's going on in your immune system, what it means when there's an opportunistic infection, what the labs are actually saying, what we have to decide based on your symptoms and presentation and what it looks like to overcome opportunistic infections.

Okay? Opportunistic infection. What does that mean? An opportunistic infection means that. If your immune system is operating properly and all things are good that you really should not have a problem with that infection. Common opportunistic infections that we see are herpes family viruses, so think HSV one where you get the sore HSV two in the genital area.

Epstein bar virus is also an opportunistic infection. The thing about opportunistic infections is that they are very common. So greater than 95% of people will have been exposed to Epstein-Barr virus by the time they are an adult. And I can say the same thing with HSV one and HSV two. Most everybody comes into contact with these viruses and then what happens when some people still have problems with them now?

I just talked a lot about viruses. There's also opportunistic infections that are fungal, like candida and bacteria like mycoplasma, pneumonia, and this family of infections. A lot of times if you have an opportunistic viral infection, you might also be carrying a fungal or a bacterial, and it makes sense, right?

Because. If you're susceptible to an opportunistic viral infection, whatever is going on in your body means that you might also be more susceptible to a bacterial or fungal. So let's talk about the labs and the testing for these opportunistic infections and what that looks like, because I think that labs.

Are so easy to understand when it's the first time that you've had an infection and it's a, yes, it's positive. No it's not. But when we get into this realm of opportunistic infections and you have chronic fatigue for years, or these symptoms that just aren't going away, or maybe you have a herpes flare up multiple times per month, and it's, it's like, how do standard labs help with that?

Here's the problem, so. In a conventional setting and that acute setting where it's the first time that you've been exposed to that virus, it's pretty simple. You're going to have a blood draw and the labs come back. And typically what you'll see if it's in that acute setting and the first time that you have had that infection, is your IGM antibodies will be positive.

So M think of them as the mama antibodies. They're the first antibodies that respond to an infection. They typically stay positive acutely, and then they go negative. And your IgG antibodies are gonna pop up. And these antibodies can be confusing for labs because they can stay positive for a really long time.

But that is part of how your. Immune system creates memory of what it's seen so that when it gets exposed to a virus, it can respond very quickly. You don't get sick, right? Um, or maybe you have, you know, a very, very short illness, but this memory is what makes our immune system strong. And so when. We look at this on the labs, it becomes really difficult when we have these opportunistic infections because typically when you test for opportunistic infections, you look at IGM and IgG.

Now, a lot of times that IgG will stay elevated a little bit throughout life because again, it's that memory response. So what happens when. You have, let's use a herpes flare for an example. What happens when you are getting acute herpes flares once a month, twice a month, and you go to test the IGM is negative because, okay, you know, you've had this infection before, but the IgG is positive.

But then what does that tell you? Because, well. Obviously it's positive because you've had it before, but you know that your body is still responding to this infection because you have the lesions and the symptoms to prove it. Typically, and a lot of times in these instances, the IGG will be really, really high normal, not just a mild elevation for memory, but a very, very, very high normal.

Sometimes it really depends on what lab company you're using, but it can be 10 times to a hundred times the upper limit of normal. And then you also have the symptoms, and that means, okay, your body is having difficulty handling this opportunistic infection and needs. Support, and that's in my clinical practice when we treat it.

I think that the herpes example is a good example because it's a really obvious symptom that yes, you, you have the herpes lesions, one common infection, the Epstein bar virus. It's not, it's, it's not that straightforward because fatigue is more of a vague. Symptom that could be caused by a lot of things.

And so oftentimes doctors will say, well, that doesn't mean that you have a reactivation. Uh, there's other labs as well, like the early antigen that can be helpful. But again, that only stays positive typically for a certain amount of time. So that can be negative. And in my clinical practice, you can still be dealing with that reactivation.

So that's where it gets all gray and where it can be really helpful to work with somebody that specializes in opportunistic infections and looking at really what's important to look at is your symptoms and, and your history and what's working treatment wise and what's not and what's going on. But what I wanna talk about, now that we understand that.

Foundation of op opportunistic infections and, and what's going on with the immunology there and why that is confusing in that IGM versus IgG. I wanna talk about what do you do about opportunistic infections, because I oftentimes have patients that have the fungal load, the viral load, and bacterial load opportunistic infections.

Oftentimes the. When patients have fatigue, especially since COVID-19, the Epstein Bar virus is tested more regularly now, and that's positive. And then doctors will kind of just stop and be like, okay, that's the problem. It's the Epstein Bar virus. But for me, when I find one opportunistic infection positive, I think there's probably more because that is a sign that your body's immune system and your body's state.

Is not, is not handling an opportunistic infection, which the definition literally is typically there in immunocompromised or a weakened immune system. So if you just take the medication, whether it's a pharmaceutical or a natural antiviral, whatever, it's if you just take that and don't do anything else.

The state of your immune function in biochemistry isn't necessarily going to change, and you're probably still gonna be dealing with that infection. Now. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't take the, maybe it's an antiviral or an antimicrobial or antifungal. It doesn't mean you don't need that, and you probably do need that to, uh, to help your body overcome that, but.

You need to do more. We need to ask why this opportunistic infection is there. And the other thing is that we need to set you up for success. So these herpes family viruses that are really common with opportunistic infections, once they're in the body, the way that they integrate with the body cellularly, they're going to be there.

So as you go throughout your life, there might be times where that viral load goes up and down and up and down, and people will say, I have a flare up. I don't feel good. Things like that. And that's because that opportunistic infection is still there and your symptoms are telling us that, oh, now it's not handling it well again, so we need.

To address that we need to not just look at this infection, we need to look at what's around it so that your body can overcome it. And this is what is oftentimes missing in patient care and treatment plans that leaves you sick for a long time. And in upcoming episodes, we're going to talk about all sorts of things that can impact.

Your immune response, your oxidative stress levels. Oxidative stress levels are a sign of how your body is processing reactive oxygenation species. We come into toxins, stress all, all throughout our environment and our body has to be able to respond and clear out that any damage that happens, and it uses antioxidants to do that when there's more.

Reactive oxygenation species activity, more toxicity, more stress than there is antioxidants in the body to be able to handle it. We see elevated oxidative stress levels in the body. It's also what causes aging. So think of, you know, rest on a nail aging, things like that. But when we reach that point and those oxidative stress levels are really high, that can also set you up for opportunistic infections.

A lot of times in conventional medicine it's like, oh, only in the elderly or immunocompromised people that have had, uh, maybe cancer treatment, things like that. That's kind of what is thought of with immunocompromised, but there's such a spectrum of how well immune systems are functioning today, and in order to really hone in and prevent these opportunistic infections.

Which we are learning is becoming increasingly important as we see more and more research coming out, linking Epstein Barr virus to multiple autoimmune conditions. Uh, a very close link with multiple sclerosis, which we'll talk about that in an upcoming episode as well. Uh, but it's important to regulate these opportunistic infections because when they are active, they turn on inflammatory pathways that promote disease.

So we have to address the bugs, but we also have to address why the bug is active, and that is the key to resilient health and making it so that. The opportunistic infection can be there, but you still feel good and you aren't having symptoms. So that is a lot of what we are going to spend time doing on the Made Teel Show is looking at things that leave you vulnerable and the traditional thought of immunocompromised versus healthy.

There's a whole spectrum in between where you can be not operating. Really in a healthy way and have a weakened immune system. Maybe. Maybe your white blood cell count hangs out at four, and that doesn't flag red on the lab, but it's always that low normal, that's a sign that your immune system is burdened.

And so as we look at this, I, we have to shift our focus of not just immune compromised versus. Good immune, but the whole spectrum in between. And look at it on an individual basis of what you have been exposed to, how your body is handling it, what, what your genetics are, what your family history is, what your daily life is, what your stress is like, what infections, what toxins you've been exposed to.

What's going on in your gut are your adrenals and your thyroid working. All of that plays hugely into opportunistic infections and so. We have to address all of those to fully overcome these pesky opportunistic infections. Thank you for joining me in this short solo episode on Opportunistic Infections on the Made to Heal Show.

Be well.