In this second conversation with JJ Vega, leadership coach and founder of Art of Unfolding, Dave Schoof goes deeper into the territory most leadership development avoids: grief as a necessary passage, natural cycles as an organizational practice, and the embodied awareness that makes a genuinely different kind of leadership possible. Drawing on William Bridges' transition model and their shared background in somatic and consciousness-informed coaching, Dave and JJ explore what it actually takes to lead well through endings — not just survive them.

In this episode:

• Grief as a leadership skill — why it belongs in the room
• The neutral zone: what lives between endings and new beginnings
• Resilience vs. permeability — replacing the wall with a membrane
• Regenerative leadership: honoring fallow seasons, natural cycles, and rest
• Embodied awareness as the foundational leadership practice
• Rewilding the human being — and the organizations we lead

Guest: JJ Vega is a leadership coach working at the intersection of the inner world and organizational impact. Together, we cover emergence as a leadership practice, somatic intelligence, edge walkers, the disintegrating success template, and whether the Hero's Journey needs a postmodern update.

CONNECT WITH JJ VEGA

Website: artofunfolding.org

Inside Out Leadership: leadinsideout.io

Co-Creation Loft Berlin: co-creation.loft

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jj-vega/

🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE

Website: daveschoof.com

The Pivot Newsletter: [https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a]

Substack: [https://dschoof.substack.com]

Podcast: [https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s]

LinkedIn:  [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/ ]

Three weeks into Operation Epic Fury, the Strait of Hormuz effectively closed and crude above $100 a barrel — this episode covers what's happening inside the people running organizations through it. The financial briefings tell you what's happening to the system. I want to talk about the moment leaders reach for their map and find it doesn't cover where they are.

Through the story of a composite leader I call Isabel — a CFO navigating this crisis in real time — I explore what it actually looks like to lead from genuine orientation rather than performed certainty. The difference between managing a situation and actually meeting it. And why the most practical thing in the room right now might be the one nobody's briefing you on.

In this episode:

• Why working harder on the map is producing more noise, not more clarity
• What paralysis actually is — and why it's information, not weakness
• The 6 am practice that changed how Isabel showed up in the boardroom
• The 48-hour decision that changed the outcome
• What the unthinkable becoming real means for the next decade of leadership

⏱ CHAPTERS

00:00 — Introduction 01:30 — What the briefings aren't covering 04:00 — The moment leaders reach for the map 06:30 — Why working harder on the map stops working 09:00 — What paralysis actually is 12:00 — Meet Isabel 15:30 — Before — how she used to lead 19:00 — This week — leading differently 24:00 — The board call 27:30 — The Stefan moment 30:00 — The 48-hour decision 33:00 — What actually changed 36:00 — What this crisis is really revealing 38:30 — The question worth sitting with

🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE

Website: daveschoof.com

The Pivot Newsletter: [https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a]

Substack: [https://dschoof.substack.com]

Podcast: [https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s]

LinkedIn:  [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/ ]

What if desire, not strategy, is the real GPS for navigating complexity? That's where this conversation ended up — and neither of us saw it coming.

JJ Vega is a leadership coach working at the intersection of the inner world and organizational impact. Together, we cover emergence as a leadership practice, somatic intelligence, edge walkers, the disintegrating success template, and whether the Hero's Journey needs a postmodern update.

In this episode:

• Why emergence requires holding your experience lightly enough for something new to come through
• The body as an intelligence system that most leaders aren't using
• Edge walkers — the people at the margins, your organization is probably ignoring
• The Michelangelo principle — revealing what's already there vs. fixing what's broken
• When the old success contract stops delivering, and what the disquiet actually means
• Desire as navigation instrument — the GPS for a world without templates
• The Hero's Journey as fractal, not an arc
• Self-organized communities and the new human blueprint

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Introduction & how Dave and JJ connected

01:25 JJ introduces himself — coaching at the intersection of inner world and leadership

03:00 Expat life — Americans who chose another home

03:48 What emergence means — holding experience lightly

06:38 JJ on emergence — complexity theory and the relational field

09:22 Making emergence practical — bridging the esoteric

11:40 Invisible winds of the system — why teams repeat the same patterns

13:51 The body as intelligence — somatic coaching and why leaders aren't machines

16:14 From controlling to holding space — the identity transition

18:32 Intellectually getting it vs. embodying it

20:39 Supporting the destabilization — how transformation actually takes hold

21:11 Case study — the high-performing technician becoming a people leader

23:35 The two axes of transformation — vertical inner work and horizontal skills

25:31 From mechanic to gardener — a new orientation toward people

27:41 The field multiplier — how one leader raises the whole team

28:42 Navigating polycrisis — what JJ is finding in the field right now

29:20 Functional freeze — why people are maxed out and what to do

31:16 Crisis as threshold — the opportunity inside the breakdown

32:15 Check-in — modeling presence in real time

33:19 The coaching relationship as a leadership model

35:10 Behavior is contagious — how leaders infect their systems

38:33 Quantum physics never took off — why the relational field is still too spooky

41:23 Edge walkers — pay attention to people at the margins

 43:51 The prophet not welcome in his own company

45:12 Upgrades to your sensemaking dashboard

46:25 Avoiding confirmation bias and echo chambers

47:22 The edge walker on your team right now — a concrete example 49:27 Polarity navigation — both/and leadership

51:16 Tolerating the unknown — why innovation requires accepting failed bets

53:42 White water was supposed to be temporary — why that story is over

54:03 JJ's life breakdown three years ago — the story of accelerating change

59:00 The new human — new capacities for a new world

01:00:31 Inheriting a template — and what happens when it disintegrates

01:03:58 The old contract is breaking down

01:05:23 Desire as the new GPS — what if spark is your navigation instrument 

CONNECT WITH JJ VEGA

Website: artofunfolding.org

Inside Out Leadership: leadinsideout.io

Co-Creation Loft Berlin: co-creation.loft

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jj-vega/

🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE

Website: daveschoof.com

The Pivot Newsletter: [https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a]

Substack: [https://dschoof.substack.com]

Podcast: [https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s]

LinkedIn:  [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/ ]

If you're feeling overwhelmed by complex interconnected crises, this episode offers a lens to see beyond the noise and act from a deeper awareness. Shift your focus from merely surviving the storm to understanding its climate — and start navigating with intention.

Most of us feel overwhelmed by the chaos of today’s world—climate crises, economic instability, AI disruptions, and collective anxiety. But what if the real challenge isn’t just managing these crises but understanding the deeper system that causes them? In this episode of The Pivot, Dave Schof reveals the distinction between the polycrisis—the storm of many crises occurring simultaneously—and the metacrisis, the underlying operating-system breakdown shaping it all. You’ll discover how shifting your perspective from reacting to symptoms to addressing core patterns can transform your response to chaos.

• The difference between polycrisis and metacrisis and why understanding both matters
• How the experience of overwhelm reflects deeper systemic patterns
• Naming symptoms versus patterns to create space for decision-making
• Practical attention hygiene practices to reduce reactivity
• Using relational questions to move from symptom management to systems thinking
• Reframing anxiety around AI and change as deeper fears about security and identity
• Cultivating embodied capacity and relational awareness to navigate uncertainty
• The importance of shifting your inner operating system to influence external change
• Ways to incorporate these insights into daily leadership behaviors

00:00 - Exploring the shifting landscape of global crises

02:13 - The collective experience of overwhelm and confusion

03:11 - Understanding polycrisis: many crises occurring simultaneously

05:35 - Introducing the meta-crisis: the operating system problem

07:32 - Responding to the polycrisis vs. the meta-crisis

08:30 - Practical questions to understand what the moment asks of us

12:57 - The shift from drowning in the storm to recognizing the pattern

13:26 - Practical steps: 

• LinkedIn
• Substack
• Website

In this rich conversation, Dave Schoof sits down with Maurice Jenkins—host of The Intuitive Leader™ Podcast and an expert in psychological safety and high-performing teams—to explore the vital yet often overlooked role of intuition in leadership.

Chapters/Timestamps:

 
00:00 - Introduction


03:00 - Maurice's origin story with intuition


10:00 - The four types of intuition explained


35:00 - Neuroscience of intuition


45:00 - Psychological safety and team dynamics


55:00 - Morning ritual for intuitive mind


65:00 - Real-world applications and challenges


75:00 - Closing reflections and how to connect  

Guest Bio:



Maurice Jenkins is a two-time nominated Speaker on Trust, Psychological Safety,y and High-Performing Leaders and Teams. He hosts The Intuitive Leader™ Podcas, where top global scientists, CEO,s and entrepreneurs share their best practices on how intuitive leadership boosts high performance.

Maurice's journey from high-performing sales strategist to leadership coach gives his work both depth and credibility. Backed by years of research, 50+ deep interviews and 22+ years of real-world experience, his evidence-based approach builds self-awareness and helps leaders stay calm and strategic during uncertainty.

His programs help leaders effectively read the room, create high-trust teams, and develop strategic decision-making. Maurice runs signature programs in High-Trust & High-Performance and leads a by-invitation-only Intuitive Business Network (IBN).

Born in the Netherlands, Maurice currently lives with his family in Sweden.

Connect with Maurice:


Website: https://www.intuitiveleader.net/masterclass

 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mauricejenkens/  


Podcast: https://www.intuitiveleader.net/podcast

For More on the Pivot:  
https://www.daveschoof.com/    

Music by Phil Schoof

Podcast Description: In a world of complexity and uncertainty, the leaders who thrive are those who develop the capacity to sense what's emerging before it shows up in reports. Join Dave Schoof, international executive coach and leadership consultant, as he explores the hidden intelligence embedded in weak signals, somatic awareness, and relational field dynamics. Discover how to navigate rapid change with presence and wisdom—and find the future that's already whispering.

What You'll Learn:

• Why gut instinct often knows what data doesn't
• The four domains of future-sensing: somatic intelligence, relational field awareness, edge-walking, and question-holding
• How to recognize weak signals before they become obvious
• The real competitive advantage in uncertain times
• Practical questions to develop your future-sensing capability

Key Takeaways:

• Your nervous system processes information faster than your analytical mind
• The most valuable information rarely comes through official channels
• Weak signals appear weak because they don't fit current frameworks
• Future-sensing develops through practice, not analysis
• The signal isn't buried in the noise—often the signal is what we've been calling the noise

Resources & References:

• Dave's website: www.daveschoof.com
• Subscribe for more on navigating uncertainty and building inner wealth
• [Link to full newsletter article]

Guest: Dave Schoof is an International Coach Federation Master Certified Coach with 15+ years of experience coaching accomplished leaders and high-achievers. His background spans 19 years in government counterintelligence and national security, alongside deep experience with Fortune 500 firms across consulting, telecommunications, pharmaceuticals, and financial services. He specializes in helping successful people uncover greater meaning and navigate the meta-crisis—the complex challenges reshaping our world.

Connect with Dave:

• Website: www.daveschoof.com
• Podcast feed: https://feed.podbean.com/daveschoof1/feed.xml

In this second conversation, Rob McNamara and I go deep into the question: How do we metabolize the poly-crisis, both personally and relationally—rather than being consumed by it?

We explore why survival mode has already lost the game, how intimacy with death becomes intimacy with life, and why relational space holds untapped generative power. We also discuss a simple practice to let life move through you, rather than against you.

This episode is especially for leaders, founders, and coaches ready to navigate complexity beyond survival—those seeking to develop the sensitivity to dance with uncertainty and access the intelligence that emerges between us.

About Rob McNamara: Rob is an expert in adult development, performance, and transformational leadership. He is the author of The Elegant Selfand teaches at the intersection of human development, relational intelligence, and inner work. Learn more at robmcnamara.com

Key quote: “Enlightenment isn't intimacy with all things—it’s intimacy AS all things.”

Topics include:

• The grip and the open hand: how contraction blocks clarity

• What it means to be radically available to life

• Reclaiming presence and potency in relational space

• Why doing less can create more impact in complexity

Episode Highlights:

• 00:02:05 – Why complexity feels so personal

• 00:07:43 – The grip and the open hand: contraction vs clarity

• 00:17:15 – Intimacy with death and the generativity of mortality

• 00:27:40 – The intelligence arising in relational space

• 00:36:12 – A somatic practice for metabolizing overwhelm

• 00:49:00 – Redefining leadership in complex times

• 00:57:30 – Becoming radically available to life

To explore the Pivot Podcast or my coaching work, visit daveschoof.com.

If this episode resonated, please subscribe—or forward it to someone navigating these times.

Production and Music composition:  Phil Schoof

In this compelling conversation, Dave speaks with Florian Irminger about his journey from high-visibility political leadership to behind-the-scenes human rights advocacy, and what he calls the "Global Realignment" we're all navigating. This episode explores how leaders can pivot from old ways of working to meet unprecedented challenges, why admitting "I don't know" is becoming essential leadership, and how human rights work is at the leading edge of what we all need to learn to thrive in this new world.

Florian Irminger is the founder of Progress & Change Action Lab, an advisory group dedicated to supporting organizations and institutions navigating complex social and political transformations. Following his tenure as Secretary-General of the Swiss Green Party, Florian made the conscious decision to step back from high-visibility political leadership to work behind the scenes, supporting others in creating meaningful change.

Inspired by Robert F. Kennedy's words that "Progress is the nice word we like to use. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies," Florian has dedicated his work to addressing what he calls the "Global Realignment"—fundamental shifts in our political, social, and human rights landscape.

Recently, Florian launched two significant initiatives: the Human Rights Compass, which brings together organizations beyond traditional branding to collaborate on key recommendations for addressing global challenges, and the Human Rights Index, launched in response to political and social media shifts.

Dave first met Florian when he was working at Human Rights House headquarters in Oslo, and later worked with him as he opened offices in Geneva and Brussels. They've maintained their connection as Florian's career and life have evolved.

00:00 - 03:00: Opening & Origins

• Introduction and reflection on their 10+ year relationship since meeting at Human Rights House in Oslo
• The memorable story of humor as a mask - early coaching insight that stayed with Florian

03:00 - 07:40: The Personal Pivot

• Florian's decision to step back from his own career to support his wife's diplomatic career
• Moving from 250 emails a day to 10, but each with real value
• The luxury of being able to focus on what's essential

07:40 - 12:54: From Public to Behind-the-Scenes Leadership

• Shifting from getting energy from public attention to finding nourishment in deeper work
• Creating breathing spaces for overwhelmed human rights CEOs
• The loneliness of leadership and the power of authentic connection

12:54 - 21:10: The Global Realignment

• How COVID revealed similarities between different sectors facing uncertainty
• The challenge for human rights CEOs in an increasingly hostile environment
• RFK's insight: "Progress is the nice word we like to use. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies"
• Why the resistance isn't to human rights values but to the change required

21:10 - 26:48: Working with "Angels" - The NGO Challenge

• Managing organizations full of well-intentioned, highly educated people who see themselves as "doing good"
• The difficulty when "angels" suddenly find themselves labeled as enemies
• The need for inward-looking organizational development, not just external solutions

26:48 - 34:02: The Compass Has Lost North

• Why traditional approaches no longer work in the current environment
• The image of a compass that's lost its north - we need to learn to hold it differently
• How social recognition for human rights workers has disappeared in many places
• The question: "Where will these people find recognition now?"

34:02 - 38:04: From Classical Music to Jazz

• The need to stop having all the answers and start asking better questions
• Moving from classical music (well-written, well-played) to jazz (improvisation and listening)
• The challenge when "the paper the music is written on is burning"

38:04 - 43:10: Recognizing Readiness for Change

• How to identify when leaders are ready to change (hint: it's not about tenure)
• The power of admitting uncertainty as an indicator of readiness
• The counterintuitive truth that vulnerability creates organizational strength

43:10 - 46:39: The 3AM Disquiet

• Why this is a moment for public leaders to be authentic about not knowing
• The parallel between Dave's coaching work and Florian's policy work
• How both are seeing similar patterns across different sectors

46:39 - 52:00: Working Between Organizations

• The freedom and authenticity that comes from not being institutionally bound
• How COVID changed how people want to work - more connection to family, less institutional boundaries
• The future of human rights work: organizations adapting to individuals rather than vice versa

52:00 - 1:00:14: Navigating Crisis Fatigue

• The story of the 13-year-old who believed "we're all going to burn"
• How we've been "exhausting the public" with constant crisis messaging
• The fear that continuous pressure will create numbness and loss of empathy in human rights workers

1:00:14 - 1:06:32: The Lost Decade

• Working with people who don't have all the answers (the easy tell: if they say they do, they're not ready)
• The regression of human progress indicators for the first time since 1945
• Why this decade (2020s) may be remembered as "the black hole decade"
• The hope that universal suffering will create unity across all sectors of society

1:06:32 - 1:11:54: Personal Navigation Strategies

• Florian's shift from traditional meditation to playing saxophone as breathing/connection practice
• How the saxophone reveals his emotional state
• The importance of reading classic literature to gain a historical perspective
• Stepping back from the immediacy of social media and current events

1:11:54 - 1:16:31: Whispers from the Future

• The recognition that mental health support is needed but still stigmatized
• Faith that humanity is equipped to overcome this moment, as it has before
• The reminder that it takes only seconds to destroy what humanity builds over centuries
• "The pyramids are still standing."

1:16:31 - 1:21:08: Closing Reflections

• The impact of stress on leadership capacity and judgment
• How people are reverting to more instinctive, animal-like reactions
• The importance of "getting the individuals right" for society to come together

"I want to work with people that I like. So that is my new life journey - to value the family first, and value the people that I want to work with."

"Progress is the nice word we like to use. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." - RFK

"We need to stop thinking that we have answers and learn better how to ask questions... We need to start playing jazz, because then we're improvising and listening to each other."

"I think admitting the uncertainty is, to me, an indicator of readiness to change."

"We are really equipped to deal with all of this and to come together. I just don't know who will be the 'we' and where it will happen and when."

• Human Rights Compass: http://humanrightscompass.org
• Human Rights Index: https://bsky.app/profile/humanrightsindex.bsky.social
• Progress & Change Action Lab: https://progress-change-actionlab.org
• Books mentioned:
  • The contemporary author mentioned is Karine Tuil (I think some of her work was actually translated);
  • The book from which I was quoting at the start, about the use of humour by Boris Johnson, was Anthony Seldon’s “Johnson at 10. The Inside Story”;
  • Jean-Claude Guillebaud’s “La foundation du monde” is the book discussed regarding the 20th century's lack of closure.
  • At the very end, the book was Jostein Gaarder’s “Maya”.

• Progress & Change Action Lab: https://progress-change-actionlab.org
• Human Rights Compass: http://humanrightscompass.org

1. The Power of the Pivot: Sometimes stepping back from visibility creates more authentic impact
2. Admitting "I Don't Know": In times of uncertainty, vulnerability becomes a leadership strength
3. From Answers to Questions: Moving from classical music to jazz - improvising and listening rather than following old scripts
4. The Global Realignment: We're all navigating similar challenges across different sectors
5. Personal Navigation: Finding practices (like saxophone for breathing, classic literature for perspective) to maintain balance in chaos
6. Future Hope: Humanity has overcome difficult moments before and is equipped to do so again

This was a profound conversation about leadership, change, and hope in uncertain times. Perfect for anyone navigating their own pivot in work, leadership, or life.

My website:  www.daveschoof.com

Original music:  Phil Schoof

Production:  Phil Schoof

What if the pivot you’re seeking isn’t a sharp turn — but a deep surrender into something bigger?

Welcome to the very first episode of The Pivot! I’m your host, Dave Schoof, and today we’re not doing a classic interview. Instead, I’m sitting down with the brilliant Amah for an open exploration of what it means to navigate uncertainty, embrace emergence, and trust the wisdom unfolding through us.

If you’re feeling the tremble of change and wondering how to find your way forward — you’re in exactly the right place.

In this very first episode of The Pivot, Dave invites Amah — an intuitive guide, deep listener, and explorer of human transformation — for a conversation that’s more of an unfolding than an interview.

Together, they dive into:

• The art of surrendering control during major life transitions,
• How to listen for what’s emerging rather than forcing outcomes,
• Why uncertainty is not a problem to solve, but an invitation to evolve,
• Personal stories of pivotal moments that reshaped their paths,
• The power of authentic presence in creating new realities.
• This episode is about more than insights — it’s about feeling into the living edge of change itself.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Welcome to The Pivot 
• 03:15 – Introducing Amah: Healer, guide, and navigator of emergence
• 07:40 – Redefining “the pivot” in uncertain times
• 14:20 – The tension between control and surrender
• 22:00 – Real-life stories of trusting the unknown
• 31:45 – What it means to be in conversation with life
• 40:10 – Closing reflections + invitation to listeners

Connect with Amah: Amah Sia

Follow The Pivot: Dave Schoof: Wilderness Guide

Writings from The Pivot: form the map to the territory