Poisons and Pestilence

Welcome to the show- 0

Sun, 05 Sep 2021 20:47:27 -0300

Hello! Welcome to The Poisons and Pestilence Podcast!

1: Shoot that Poison Arrow

Fri, 10 Sep 2021 21:31:52 -0300

The first episode covers the pre-history of poison arrows- check out the show notes here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

2: Hittite me Plaguey one more time

Fri, 17 Sep 2021 11:15:34 -0300

In Episode 2, we continue our discussion of pre-historic biological warfare

Check out the show notes for this episode here

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

3: I don‘t love you Hellebore

Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:54:16 -0300

In Episode 3, we examine the history of biological and chemical warfare from 1000BC to 1AD

You can check out sources and show notes at:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

4: Fire in the hole

Fri, 05 Nov 2021 09:40:02 -0300

This episode we're going to be looking at the time- period between roughly 1 AD and 500AD. As we continue our trundle through the history of chemical and biological weapons and warfare

You can check out the show notes here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

5 Bonus Episode: ‘Clouds over Gas Lane‘ with Mike Kenner

Thu, 25 Nov 2021 19:52:24 -0400

Welcome to the first-ever bonus episode of the poisons and pestilence podcast!

This episode is the first in a two-part special on large area biological weapon simulant trials, carried out in the UK during the Cold War. In this episode, we focus on work carried out by scientists from Porton Down up until the mid -1960’s- which involved the spread of zinc cadmium sulphide over vast swathes of the UK. In part two of this special, we will take a deeper dive into the ‘Lyme Bay Trials’ which involved the use of bacteria, including E.coli in open-air trials over populated areas during the 1960s and 1970s. In the second show, we will also examine the political fall-out of experiments these experiments, when they started coming to broader public attention in the 1990s.

Further resources

Mike Kenner YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/experimentsrus

Rob Evans (2000) ‘Gassed’ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gassed-Behind-Scenes-Porton-Down/dp/1842320718

Brian Balmer ( 2001) Britain and Biological Warfare https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Britain_and_Biological_Warfare/GGWJDAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=brian+balmer&printsec=frontcover

Brian Balmer (2016) Secrecy and Science https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Secrecy_and_Science/KrreCwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Brian+balmer+2016&pg=PT3&printsec=frontcover

Peter Hammond and Gordon Carter ( 2000) From Biological Warfare to Healthcare https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/From_Biological_Warfare_to_Healthcare/UTwGDAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=porton+down+history+carter&printsec=frontcover

6 Bonus Episode: ’The Monks of Moonfleet’ with Mike Kenner

Sun, 02 Jan 2022 17:16:52 -0400

You can check out the Declassified MOD film on the Lyme Bay Trials here (a clip of this appears in the show audio) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTwQJ1ASyws&t=302s

You can also check out various documentaries and excerpts of press coverage of the Zinc Cadmium and Lyme Bay Trials produced when these issues first hit the headlines over at https://www.youtube.com/user/experimentsrus/featured

INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF THE POSSIBLE HEALTH HAZARDS
OF THE LARGE-SCALE RELEASE OF BACTERIA DURING THE
DORSET DEFENCE TRIALS
Professor Brian G. Spratt FRS, Wellcome Trust Centre for the Epidemiology
of Infectious Disease, University of Oxford.

https://zeltus.eu/mre/downloads/dorset_bacteria_trials.pdf

Zinc Cadmium Sulphide Dispersion Trials
Report by the Academy of Medical Sciences to the Chief Scientific Adviser, Ministry of Defence on the Zinc Cadmium Sulphide dispersion trials undertaken in the United Kingdom between 1953 and 1964.
December 1999

https://acmedsci.ac.uk/file-download/34958-ZincCadm.pdf

For a recent historical appraisal of these issues, other open-air trials in the UK- as well as public and technical/ expert discourse on these matters see also:

Ulf Schmidt ( 2015) Secret Science, Chapter 7.

7: If you buboe me by now

Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:25:43 -0400

Hello! And welcome to episode 7 of the poisons and pestilence podcast- If you buboe me by now.

Now I had a great time putting together the last two specials- and I hope you enjoyed them. However, it is high time we returned to our trundle through the history of biological and chemical warfare.

As you will recall, in earlier episodes, we have been covering some pretty vast time periods. But we are not beginning to become a little more granular in the storytelling.

In this episode, we cover a mere eight centuries- from around the fall of the Roman Empire ( around the 5th Century ) to the black death of the mid-14th century.

You can find the show notes here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

8 Bonus Episode: ’Survive to Fight’ with Gareth Davies

Mon, 04 Apr 2022 18:55:05 -0300

In this episode, we look at transitions in Chemical and Biological defence in the British army between the tail end of the Cold War and the Gulf War. We talk about noddy suits- and I didn't make a joke about being cold once. Be sure to say hello to Gareth on Twitter ( especially if you like tanks)

I do not own the media clips, they can be found here:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsUcz2Bh1z4vWjI9zM15qbb43sVPl7LeX

Icon image lifted from NBC field manual (1983) Crown Copyright- https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=2005-04-25-5

Season 2 Teaser

Tue, 03 May 2022 07:59:17 -0300

Won't be long until we are back looking at poison arrows, toxic smoke, water poisoning and the laws of war from the 13th to the 18th century. Drop me a line if you have ideas for the show!

9 Bonus Episode: ’The Polish Retort’ with Robert Petersen

Mon, 06 Jun 2022 08:20:27 -0300

During World War II, the Polish resistance movement used chemical and biological weapons (CBW) against the Third Reich. The use of CBW against the Third Reich most likely originated in a secret Polish biological-weapons program, which existed in the 1930s and went underground after the September 1939 German invasion. Between 1940 and 1942, a unit of the Polish resistance movement named WKZO (Wielkopolskie Kierownictwo Związku Odwetu—the Greater Poland Leadership of the Union of Retaliation) conducted CBW sabotage in the German-annexed area Reichsgau Wartheland and its main city Posen (today’s Poznań). In this episode we examine this group with Robert Peterson.

You can find Robert's paper on the subject here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10736700.2020.1866321

sound clip credit: https://youtu.be/pw2PenZYBuw

10 Bonus Episode: The bottom of the barrel with Dan Kaszeta

Tue, 28 Jun 2022 07:53:54 -0300

In this episode Dan discusses his work examining the life of Edmund Tilly. After WW2 Tilly interrogated those involved in the German chemical warfare programme- which was the first to develop and produce a nerve agent ' Tabun'- on a large scale.

Sound Credits: This clip is from the 1963 film, Nerve Agents, available at the national Archives. Video found on this amazing Youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/user/markdcatlin/videos

11: Great Balls of Fire

Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:48:31 -0300

In this episode we examine the impact of the development of gunpowder on chemical and biological warfare. We focus on China in the 9th -16th centuries. Next week we follow the spread of gunpowder west.

Show notes are available here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

12 Bonus Episode: Bio-chemical Airpower with Reid Kirby

Mon, 07 Nov 2022 07:03:23 -0400

Image and sound from the US national archives.

Check out Reid's website over at Military Historian - Reid Kirby

13 Bonus Episode: The M Device with Simon Jones

Thu, 10 Nov 2022 11:44:20 -0400

You can find a link to Simon's work on this subject over at https://simonjoneshistorian.com/2019/08/27/first-air-dropped-cw/

14 Bonus Episode: Dirty War with Glenn Cross

Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:27:57 -0400

You can check out Glenn's book here: Dirty War: Rhodesia and Chemical Biological Warfare 1975-1980 - Glenn Cross - Google Books

We didn't have time to cover the smaller and largely exploratory BW aspect of this programme but hopefully we will in s future episode.

Audio clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrD4XJcOw4

15: Baby, you Khan light my fire(-lance)

Fri, 05 May 2023 12:09:36 -0300

The latest installment- covering the spread of gunpowder west, via the Mongols. Show notes available at: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

16 Bonus Episode: Before the Storm with Al Mauroni

Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:22:18 -0300

In this episode we examine preparations by the US in the advent of Operation Desert Storm (2003) for dealing with what was believed at the time to have been a large Iraqi CBW capability- with Al Mauroni.

17 I’m all about that basilisk

Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:56:43 -0300

In this episode, we examine the western gunpowder revolution and consider ideas for poison weapons which were outlined at this time in numerous military manuals.

I am very grateful for the input from:

the stupendous Seth Carus, the amazing Anna Roessing, the unbelievable Una Jacob, the awe-inspiring Alexander Samuel, the terrific Tonio Andrade, and the remarkable Rainer Leng.

Show notes: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

18 Bonus Episode: The Clouds of Auguste Trillat with Étienne Aucouturier

Tue, 14 Nov 2023 10:05:10 -0400

A history of the foundation of the French BW programme. You can find a list of Etienne's publications here: https://irfu.cea.fr/Pisp/etienne.aucouturier/

19 Bonus Episode: Dark Power with Karl Dewey

Thu, 23 Nov 2023 07:16:33 -0400

Karl Dewey (2022)

Poisonous affairs: Russia’s evolving use of poisons in targeted killings

https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/en/publications/poisonous-affairs-russias-evolving-use-of-poisons-in-targeted-kil

https://twitter.com/KarlDewey1

Audio credit: Clip BBC

20 Bonus Episode: No Fire No Thunder with Alastair Hay

Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:46:15 -0400

In this episode, I interview Professor Alastair Hay about his work as a toxicologist related to the prohibition of chemical weapons.

21 Bonus Episode: The French Connection with Etienne Aucouturier

Mon, 29 Jan 2024 06:56:24 -0400

In this episode, we examine the development of the French CBW programme post WW-2

Etienne Aucouturier (2023) Biological Warfare. Another French Connection

https://materiologiques.com/en/histoire-des-sciences-et-des-techniques/303-biological-warfare-the-french-conection-9782373612394.html

Olivier Lepick (2008) French Military biological programme, 1947-1972

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/299105068_French_Military_biological_programme_1947-1972

22 Bonus Episode: Foreign Agents with Eliot Higgins

Tue, 30 Jan 2024 06:52:23 -0400

In this episode I discuss the emergence of OSINT and Bellingcat- with a focus on work related to chemical weapons.

Sources:

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/have-chemical-weapons-been-used-ukraine

Book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=bellingcat+book&adgrpid=1172080294039072&hvadid=73255220590861&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=41801&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-73255153838822%3Aloc-188&hydadcr=10776_2102372&tag=mh0a9-21&ref=pd_sl_6o2ld96ezj_e

Bellingcat investigations

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/10/23/russias-clandestine-chemical-weapons-programme-and-the-grus-unit-21955/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2020/01/15/the-opcw-douma-leaks-part-1-we-need-to-talk-about-alex/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/20/skripal-suspects-confirmed-gru-operatives-prior-european-operations-disclosed/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/10/22/russian-vehicle-registration-leak-reveals-additional-gru-hackers/

Ukraine riot control agent allegations

Media sources

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-cJu-6QFC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQ604MWZTQ

23 Bonus Episode: Tear Gas Tasting Notes with Dan Kaszeta

Fri, 16 Feb 2024 08:48:32 -0400

In this episode we consider the long and complex history of Riot Control Agents- from the first world war, to the battlefields of modern Ukraine.

There is also a list of recent statements below made in the context of the OPCW on the Ukraine issue:

https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2023/11/29-11-2023%20CSP-28%20_Statement%20Germany%20agenda%209d%20RCA%20_0.pdf

https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2024/01/Combined%20Canadian%20statement%20on%20Subitem%209d.pdf

https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2023/11/CSP_28_National%20Statement_Ukraine_OPCW_CW_English.pdf

audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLNMKRqOrMo

24 Movie Special: Outbreak and Contagion with Saskia Popescu

Mon, 11 Mar 2024 07:00:37 -0300

In our first ever movie review special, Dr Saskia Popescu reviews the classics Contagion (2011) and Outbreak (1995).

This episode was edited and produced by the wonderful Nicolas Lureau

25 Movie Review Special: The Rock with Steve Johnson

Sat, 06 Apr 2024 13:50:01 -0300

The second of our movie review specials. This one looking at The Rock (1996).

With Steve Johnson https://x.com/CBRNEsteve?t=_sSXmOA7t4xGzvcW8TUYPA&s=09

I do not own the rights to the trialer used here under fair use.

Epic rap battles

https://youtu.be/_wYtG7aQTHA?si=RltWpU_VOW9xwvHh

26 Bonus Episode: Mustard and the Fascist Way of War with Charles Stephenson

Tue, 23 Apr 2024 09:48:36 -0300

In this episode, I am joined by Charles Stephenson, who discusses the use of chemical weapons by Italian invaders in the war against Ethiopia in the campaign of 1935-6.

You can find the book he recently published on this topic here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mussolini-Mustard-Gas-Fascist-Way/dp/1399051660

27 Bonus Episode: The Sulphurous Schemes of Lord Dundonald

Fri, 17 May 2024 10:31:58 -0300

In this episode we examine some 19th century chemical warfare plans, which were a prelude to the first large scale use of gas warfare in WW1.

Book link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Admirals-Secret-Weapon-Dundonald-Stephenson/dp/B017AJTSBU

28 Movie Review Special: Fallout with Gwyn Winfield

Tue, 21 May 2024 17:22:54 -0300

In this movie review special Gwyn Winfield discusses the series 'Fallout'- and touch on the depiction of the environmental effects of nuclear weapons- among other things. Fallout is available on Prime Video.

Gwyn's magazine: https://cbrneworld.com/

Trailer audio used under fair usage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZwLYEVUK8 (Prime Video).

29 Movie Review Special: The Expanse with Emily Ricotta

Tue, 09 Jul 2024 12:38:02 -0300

Another movie special ! The expanse- and the space fungus hypothesis! With Dr Emily Ricotta.

https://www.emilyricotta.com/

I do not own the right to the trailer, which is used under normal critique and review exemptions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0QwBp_da28

30 Bonus Episode: Why do bugs go bad?

Fri, 26 Jul 2024 09:09:02 -0300

In this episode I discuss pathogens, as well as security screening in the gene synthesis industry- with someone who isn't that sectors namesake- but has done a lot of work relevant to it: Gene Godbold, from Signature Science LLC.

31 Movie Review: The Omega Man with Conor Browne

Fri, 02 Aug 2024 11:17:07 -0300

All clips are from the following trailers. Used under fair usage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWlNe1-5wb8&t=9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWB6Ufh4O98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtKMEAXyPkg&t=25s

32 Bonus Episode: History of Czechoslovak Gas Masks with Andrej Boron

Sat, 14 Sep 2024 06:38:05 -0300

Find Andrej's work over at: https://www.youtube.com/@cbrnacademy

And the video is available here

https://youtu.be/Xf3vW3pWIm8?si=-Mpz5eNteHG61o84

33 Bonus Episode: Bio-threats ain't what they used to be (or are they?) with Michael Parker

Tue, 17 Sep 2024 11:03:00 -0300

In this episode we look at the history of bio-threat assessment. With a review provided by Michael Parker, who has collated a list of threat assessments produced over the past century. You can find further details on the project here! Do check it out!

https://cobrabiosecurity.org/

34 Bonus Episode: Experience of a Porton Down Test Veteran with Ian Foulkes

Wed, 18 Sep 2024 10:06:22 -0300

In this episode I talk about Ian's experience as a Porton Down research volunteer as a serviceman during the 1980's. Ian is eager to contact other former veterans - please email be directly at Bwie20[@]bath.ac.uk.

The most substantive publicly available report on this subject, which we are aware of, is published here:

[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Defence Internet | About Defence | Historical Survey of the Porton Down Servce Vounteer Programme 1939-1989 (nationalarchives.gov.uk)

You can also find details of the cohort medical study here: The Porton Down Veterans Cohort Study | King's College London (kcl.ac.uk)

35 Bonus Episode: 'Back to Source ' with Seth Carus

Wed, 02 Oct 2024 14:19:31 -0300

In this bonus episode I am joined by Seth Carus, as we explore some of the earliest allegations of biological warfare- as well as the more recent modern developments, which transformed ancient fears, into Cold War era weapon systems.

Do check out these two studies, I think they are great:

Carus, W. Seth. "The history of biological weapons use: what we know and what we don't." Health security 13.4 (2015): 219-255.

Carus, W. Seth. "A century of biological-weapons programs (1915–2015): reviewing the evidence." The Nonproliferation Review 24.1-2 (2017): 129-153.

And also thanks to Adrienne Mayor, who drew my attention to this work on the Caffa siege, and recent work on the spread of the Black Death in the 14th century more broadly.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/711596

https://hcommons.org/deposits/objects/hc:50220/datastreams/CONTENT/content

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30176-2/fulltext

N.B my remarks on the ability of scientists to produce anthrax spores for the German programme in WW1 reliably has sparked some discussion. And I will return to this. Essentially, it is not currently clear if either purified / extracted/dried spores were employed- or else some form of wet suspension. The latter, which would have likely contained a mix of (likely denatured) vegetative b. anthracis and spores. Or else some form of purified spore suspension. I know right?

36 Bonus Episode: Have you got your gas mask? with Nathan Hazlehurst

Thu, 17 Oct 2024 10:16:13 -0300

In this episode Nathan discusses WW2 ARP preparations for gas attacks on civilian centres.

Media source: Have Your Gas Masks With You (1941-1946) (youtube.com) I do not own the rights to this clip, used under fair usage.

37: Arsenic Aria

Thu, 14 Nov 2024 10:10:19 -0400

This episode examines poisoning renaissance Italy

You can check out the show notes here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

38 Bonus Episode: Clouds over the Hague with Jean Pascal Zanders

Mon, 18 Nov 2024 10:32:55 -0400

You can check our more of Dr Zander's work over at The Trench – Challenging entrenched positions - Jean Pascal Zanders

39 Bonus Episode: Destroying Syria's Chemical Weapons with Jerry Smith

Thu, 12 Dec 2024 09:42:41 -0400

In this episode I discuss operational aspects of the destruction of declared Syrian CW stocks - with Jerry Smith. Recorded November 2024.

40 Bonus Episode: From Loos to Livens with Jessica Morris

Fri, 10 Jan 2025 08:16:12 -0400

In this episode Jessica Morris discusses her work on the evolution of British Gas Strategy during WW1.

41 Bonus Episode: Poisoned Weapons with Reid Kirby

Tue, 01 Apr 2025 19:46:08 -0300

Reid Kirby will be publishing his book in June. Follow him at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rkirby/

Media Credits: ABC news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-jA96JgD9U

Update July 2025

Tue, 22 Jul 2025 08:03:24 -0300

42: Manchineel Sugar

Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:18:11 -0300

In this episode we examine the earliest reference to poison arrows in accounts of European expeditions to the Americas in the 15th Century. This is the first part of a study which runs up untill around 1700.

You can check out the show notes here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wIibQJYobwyhFNC-OhjnLYkOwVizIjuJ?usp=sharing

43 Bonus Episode Major Tom and the Secret M-Device with Brian Tasman-Davies

Thu, 12 Feb 2026 10:08:22 -0400

In this episode we return to the history of the M-Device with Brian Tasman-Davies

You can check out the book here: Major Tom and the secret ‘M’ device – Brian's historical adventure books

We also did a previous episode on this topic with Simon Jones: 13 Bonus Episode: The M Device with Simon Jones

Music rights: "Яблочко" (Little Apple) - Russian Folk Song - YouTube

44 Movie Review Special: Cold Storage with Conor Browne

Thu, 30 Apr 2026 12:19:55 -0300

Trailer Rights;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kea7gnh1uYA