On the Other Hand

#159, OTOH, Part 1, Elizabeth Henry-McKeever, Priest, St. Michael’s Episcopal church in Little Rock, April 16, 2026

Sun, 31 May 2026 15:43:13 -0500

In this first part of a three-part conversation with the Reverend Elizabeth Henry-McKeever, Priest at St. Michael’s Episcopal church in Little Rock, Glen and April explore with Elizabeth the winding road that led her from high school healing prayers to ordination—with a detour through non-profit communications and fundraising along the way. Elizabeth reflects on what it means to create genuinely welcoming spaces for people of all faith backgrounds, introduces us to St. Michael's countercultural founding story (1968, and proud of it), and makes a compelling case that doubt isn't the enemy of faith—it may be the very thing that keeps faith honest. A thoughtful conversation for anyone who has ever wrestled with big questions and wondered whether that wrestling was a problem or a gift.

#158, OTOH, Arkansas state Senators Clarke Tucker & Jonathan Dismang, April 15, 2026, Part 2

Sun, 24 May 2026 13:47:19 -0500

The headline version of Arkansas politics is division. The reality, according to AR Senators Clarke Tucker and Jonathan Dismang, is considerably more cooperative — it just happens behind the scenes. In Part 2, both senators describe how they navigate governors of either party (honesty about disagreements, focus on genuine overlap), why the appearance of dysfunction owes more to safe seats and hyper-partisan primaries than to actual legislator behavior, and how they set multi-year goals shaped by constituent feedback rather than election cycles. Clarke's approach: be upfront about where you'll disagree, then focus energy on the substantial overlap that remains. Jonathan underscored that the real work happens before anything goes public; quiet, behind-the-scenes negotiation is where durable agreements are built. Their closing message is optimistic and concrete: Arkansas is trending in a positive direction, civic engagement matters, and local journalism is not optional for a healthy democracy. Getting involved — in your community, across political lines — is where hope actually lives.

#157, OTOH, Arkansas state Senators Clarke Tucker & Jonathan Dismang, Part 1, April 15, 2026

Sun, 17 May 2026 18:01:19 -0500

In Part 1 of their On the Other Hand conversation, Arkansas State Senators Clarke Tucker (D) and Jonathan Dismang (R) explore with April and Glen what genuine bipartisan collaboration looks like in a state legislature. Their view is that it starts with something simpler than policy: relationship. The two trace their working partnership, built on personal connection and shared concern over food insecurity, which grew into a multi-year push to expand free school meals. Their 2023 win — eliminating reduced-price meal copays for 49,000 Arkansas families — is a model of how they operate: realistic goals, thorough preparation, and making sure every co-sponsor actually understands what they're signing. Both of them provide pointed advice for anyone tired of political tribalism: get off cable news and social media, and go have a real conversation with someone who disagrees with you. Most legislative work, both senators noted, isn't partisan — it just rarely makes the news.

OTOH #156, Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, April 6 2026. part 2

Sun, 10 May 2026 16:27:08 -0500

In Part 2 or our conversation with Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, Kevin opens up about what genuine bridge-building actually looks like from the inside. He's enthusiastic about Braver Angels and its contributions, but he's equally blunt about what doesn't work: "performative peacemaking" — the kind of conflict avoidance that mistakes niceness for progress. Real dialogue, Kevin argues, requires sincerity, integrity, and the courage to engage difficult differences rather than paper over them. Then comes a moment of refreshing self-disclosure. When Kevin reached out to friends to brainstorm how to connect across political and social divides, he realized — mid-call — he had been operating under an unconscious bias. Hear from Kevin about this moment of honest self-reckoning, a process he says is essential before any meaningful conversation can happen with others. The episode also touches on religious diversity, the surprising common ground found between thinkers as different as Robbie George and Cornel West, and what it might take to build a more inclusive Arkansas — though Kevin is candid that he doesn't have all the answers. A conversation marked by humility, hard questions, and genuine hope.

OTOH #155, Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, part 1, April 6 2026

Sun, 03 May 2026 17:07:22 -0500

In this first part of Glen and John’s interview with local physician, writer and community activist Dr. Kevin Heifner, we wondered: what does a nephrologist with 35 years of practice have to say about faith, politics, and the state of American civic life? Quite a lot, it turns out. Kevin talks about the community work that keeps him engaged beyond the exam room — and why the same ethic that drives him to treat every patient equally drives his passion for bridging divides in public life. Shaped by a father who traded the pulpit for philosophy, Kevin brings a nuanced, shades-of-gray perspective to questions of faith and social ethics, including his work with Good Faith Media and the Baptist Center for Ethics. The conversation gets lively when the labels come out — or rather, when Kevin pushes back on them. "Progressive." "Conservative." He argues these words don't clarify; they dehumanize. And in a culture built on tribal sorting, that's a problem worth talking about honestly. A conversation that doesn't flinch from the hard questions.

#154, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Part 3, March 25, 2026

Sun, 26 Apr 2026 16:33:41 -0500

In this third & final part of our interview with Robert Steinbuch, law professor and government transparency advocate, Glen and April explore several key issues with Rob. He outlines the tension between FOIA's essential role in exposing government behavior and the equally legitimate need to protect private citizens' personal information — and candidly addresses why ordinary people struggle to enforce their own privacy and defamation rights when attorneys won't take the cases. Rob turns a critical eye on legal academia itself, describing what he sees as a pronounced left-of-center monoculture in law schools, and he recounts the controversy at UA - Fayetteville's Law School, where legislative pushback over a dean search put the tension between academic independence and government accountability on full public display. He reflects on his view of the proper — and improper — roles of government in institutional hiring at state-funded universities. The conversation broadens to Arkansas's societal divides, where Rob argues that while political polarization gets the headlines, economic and racial fault lines run just as deep. He closes with a personal story from a Republican Party meeting where he chose procedural fairness over possible strategic advantage, and he shares reflections from his experience moderating a conversation on Arkansas PBS TV among philosophical opponents on a controversial current issue.

#153, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, Part 2, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, March 25, 2026

Sun, 19 Apr 2026 18:50:48 -0500

In Part 2 of our three-part conversation with Robert Steinbuch - Law Professor at UA Little Rock and one of Arkansas's leading government transparency advocates - Rob takes Glen and April inside the real-world mechanics of the Freedom of Information Act. He recounts how his FOIA research on law school admissions and affirmative action sparked controversy at his own university, ultimately producing scholarship cited by Justice Thomas in a landmark Supreme Court opinion. Rob walks through the practical nuts and bolts of making Arkansas FOIA requests, breaks down the law's exemptions, and makes a pointed distinction: Arkansas's FOIA is among the best in the nation, but the federal version goes too far in shielding government from accountability. The conversation then broadens into First Amendment territory — an instance when he changed his mind about what constituted legitimate free expression, the role of a free press as the public's proxy for transparency, and the limits of government regulation of social media. It's a sharp, practical, and occasionally provocative look at transparency and press freedom from someone who has both studied and fought these battles firsthand.

#152, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Part 1, March 25, 2026

Sun, 12 Apr 2026 14:30:16 -0500

In this first part of our interview with Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Glen and April explore Rob's personal and professional background. Rob describes his family's immigrant history and their experiences under Nazi persecution, explaining how those stories — along with a family tradition of teaching and his own love of learning — shaped both his values and his path into academia. He connects that history directly to his current work: enforcing the Freedom of Information Act and Arkansas's gun laws, arguing that laws without effective enforcement are meaningless — a lesson written in the Holocaust's failures. Rob also walks us through how he balances the three core responsibilities of a law professor: teaching, research, and service. The episode closes with his provocative views on institutional neutrality, particularly within academic institutions.

#151, OTOH, Gay White, Former First Lady of Arkansas & co-chair of Friends of Arkansas PBS, Part 2, March 24 2026

Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:04:06 -0500

If you are following the controversy in Arkansas over defunding of PBS, this episode is a must for you! In the second half of our conversation with Gay White, former First Lady of Arkansas, April and Glen dig into why political discourse has grown so much more polarized — and who bears responsibility for turning it around. Gay shares what drew her to co-chair the Friends of Arkansas PBS initiative alongside Barbara Pryor, and why she believes preserving PBS is a cause that transcends party lines. We break down the Arkansas Educational Television Commission's recent vote to delay cutting PBS ties by 180 days, what the $2.1 million funding gap actually means, and how ordinary Arkansans can help close it. But the deeper question running through it all: in a media environment wired to reward outrage, how do you make a positive difference when you're just one person? Gay has a few thoughts on that — and a quote you won't forget.

#150, OTOH, Gay White, Former First Lady of Arkansas and current co-chair of Friends of Arkansas PBS, Part 1, March 24 2026

Sun, 29 Mar 2026 16:14:37 -0500

In this first part of Glen and April’s interview with Gay White, former First Lady of Arkansas, Gay discussed her early involvement in Arkansas politics, including working on David Pryor's Senate campaign in the early 1970s. She then shared her experiences when her husband Frank White, a banker, decided to run for governor against Bill Clinton in the early 1980s. Gay proudly noted Frank’s ability after being elected to get all his key goals enacted legislatively during this first term. The discussion then focused on Gay's approach to cross-party relationships, particularly her friendship with Barbara Pryor, the former First Lady of a Democratic governor, who reached out to offer support as a new First Lady. They have since maintained their friendship through their shared experiences as former First Ladies. April and Gay discussed strategies for maintaining relationships with people who have different perspectives, as Gay emphasized the importance of grace, mercy, and understanding others' perspectives while acknowledging that sometimes setting boundaries may be necessary. Gay explained that she looks past political labels to focus on people's character and common bonds, drawing inspiration from her late husband Frank, who was skilled at reaching across political divides. She also emphasized the importance of broadening experiences through travel and meeting people from different backgrounds.

#149, OTOH, April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, part 3, Feb 12 2026

Sun, 22 Mar 2026 17:08:16 -0500

Check out part 3 of our conversation with April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, on our On The Other Hand podcast. Share with others who might find it of interest.

Summary: In this third and final part of our conversation with Dr. April Chatham-Carpenter, April reflects on what gives her hope for Arkansas and the nation. She describes Braver Angels' philosophy of "calling in rather than calling out," shares practical steps any listener can take to build better relationships across divides, and offers a personal invitation to the upcoming Braver Angels national convention in Philadelphia. April closes with a reminder that real change begins with listening — and that most Americans are closer to the middle than our politics suggest.

#148, OTOH, April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, part 2, Feb 12 2026

Sun, 15 Mar 2026 16:04:52 -0500

Check out part 2 of our conversation with April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, on our On The Other Hand podcast. Share with others who may like it.

Summary: In this second part of our interview with Dr. April Chatham-Carpenter, April discusses what she sees as Arkansas's most pressing divides — rural/urban, racial, economic, and faith-related — and shares what she's actually seen work in bridging them. She describes Braver Angels' new direction under CEO Maury Giles and his vision of "Courageous Citizenship," and talks about her priority of building local community alliances and engaging conservative faith communities across the state.

#147, OTOH, April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, part 1, Feb 12 2026

Sun, 08 Mar 2026 17:21:41 -0500

Check out part 1 of our conversation with April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, on our On The Other Hand podcast. Share freely with others.

Summary: In this first part of our interview with Dr. April Chatham-Carpenter, April shares her journey — from an aptitude test that launched a career in communication, to her discovery of Braver Angels and why its mission immediately resonated with her. She reflects on how communication sits at the heart of both polarization and healing, and describes her path from early Braver Angels volunteer to national leadership roles. April also introduces listeners to her new role as state co-coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas and what drew her back to focus locally.

#146, OTOH, Bob Estes, coordinator of Arkansas Peace Week, Part 2, Feb 11 2026

Sun, 01 Mar 2026 20:44:48 -0600

In part 2 of our conversation with Bob Estes, coordinator of Arkansas Peace Week, Bob gets practical—and personal—about what it really takes to bridge divides in Arkansas. He talks about why trust must come before persuasion, and he shares the surprisingly freeing impact of deleting Facebook from his phone. We also explore the deeper cultural and generational gaps shaping our state, why he’s hopeful about young leaders, and what it means to serve your community without being afraid to fail. Along the way, Bob reflects on how he hopes to be remembered—and the simple daily practice that keeps him grounded. It’s an honest, hopeful look at how change actually happens, often in quieter ways than we expect.

#145, OTOH, Bob Estes, coordinator of Arkansas Peace Week, Part 1, Feb 11, 2026,

Sun, 22 Feb 2026 17:11:52 -0600

In this episode of On the Other Hand, Glen talks with Bob Estes, coordinator of Arkansas Peace Week and longtime advocate with the Arkansas Coalition for Peace and Justice, about what it really means to build a culture of peace in a deeply divided time. Bob reflects on the personal influences that shaped his commitment to fairness and equality, from mentors like Paul Wellstone and Woody Guthrie to his own experiences in community organizing. He explains how Arkansas Peace Week—centered around September 21—uses youth art and essay contests and practical lessons to plant seeds of nonviolence that may take years to fully bloom. The conversation also explores what Bob has learned about fostering respectful dialogue across political differences, citing as a hopeful example a recent bipartisan legislative success. It’s a thoughtful, grounded discussion about how peacebuilding happens—not just in theory, but in classrooms, communities, and everyday conversations.

#144 ,OTOH, Jim Hudson, Secretary of Arkansas Dept of Finance & Administration, part 2, 1-16-26

Sun, 15 Feb 2026 15:03:30 -0600

In part 2 of their conversation with Jim Hudson, Secretary of Arkansas Dept of Finance & Administration, April and John explore how Jim leads his team in these polarized times, manages risk, integrates faith and integrity into public service, and finds hope amid division. Jim explores how leadership in government requires balancing experimentation with accountability, explaining how his team tests new processes, learns from early setbacks, and weighs financial investments against the real costs inefficiency imposes on taxpayers. He describes a service-oriented leadership style built on setting clear priorities, trusting teams to execute, and remaining visible during demanding periods, while emphasizing that respectful communication, active listening, and humility are essential when navigating political disagreements and policy debates. Jim also reflects on aligning personal convictions with organizational leadership, encouraging open internal debate while distinguishing deeply held principles from personal opinions. Connecting faith, character, and coaching to effective leadership, he discusses the major challenges facing Arkansas—such as poverty, educational outcomes, and rural population decline—while expressing optimism about economic growth in parts of the state and urging emerging leaders to focus on personal development, lifelong learning, and appreciation for the often-unseen contributions of public servants.

#143 OTOH, Jim Hudson, Secretary of Arkansas Dept of Finance & Administration, Part 1, Jan 16 2026

Sun, 08 Feb 2026 12:58:59 -0600

On The Other Hand podcast co-host April Chatham-Carpenter and guest co-host John O’Brien have a conversation with Jim Hudson, Secretary of the Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration, where he oversees multiple divisions and works with a wide range of stakeholders. In Part 1 of the interview, Jim describes his leadership journey, values, and consultative approach to mission-driven public service. Jim reflects on his journey from vocational ministry to public service, describing how a sense of calling guided him into his current role. He credits Governor Sanders’ leadership with a focus on individual stories, improved public services, and a refusal to accept mediocrity, while outlining his own leadership approach as one centered on collaboration, inspiration, and trust rather than micromanagement. Drawing on his interdisciplinary background in political science, law, leadership, and divinity, Jim explains how humility, appreciation for present responsibilities, and thoughtful communication shape his decision-making. Jim emphasizes that effective leadership in government requires balancing the risks of action and inaction and taking carefully considered risks in pursuit of meaningful improvement.

#142, OTOH, Mike Hemphill, Co-director of Presidential Leadership Scholars program, part 3, Nov 14 2025

Sun, 01 Feb 2026 20:47:18 -0600

In this 3rd and final part of April and Glen’s conversation with Presidential Scholars co-director Mike Hemphill, Mike reflects on the power of courageous leadership rooted in authentic relationships. He describes examples such as those between U.S. senators David Pryor and Dan Quayle, who prioritized their relationship and shared values over a political issue. He also cited the navigating of political divides between local Arkansas leaders, as well as his mediation work between Little Rock and North Little Rock, showing how honest listening and human connection can solve real problems. Mike also highlights the hopeful, hands‑on collaboration he sees through the Clinton School’s community-focused faculty, reminding us that while technology can help, meaningful progress still depends on personal engagement and mindful communication.

#141, OTOH, Mike Hemphill, Co-director of Presidential Leadership Scholars program, Nov 14 2025 PART 2

Sun, 25 Jan 2026 15:04:33 -0600

In this second part of our On The Other Hand conversation with Dr. Mike Hemphill, Co-director of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, April and Glen explore the PLS program, how their students are trained in the "laboratory" environment they provide, and also how bridging divides can be accomplished through good leadership. Mike digs into how we make sense of the world—and of each other—when facts, stories, and values collide. He also explains why storytelling can be such a powerful way to build understanding across political divides. Participants in the PLS Program often grow by widening their perspective, forming relationships across differences, and reflecting deeply on their own assumptions—sometimes leading to major personal or career changes, according to Mike's account. Additional conversation reveals how leadership lessons can be drawn from multiple presidential administrations, focusing on how leaders make decisions and work together. Mike provides the example of the enduring friendship that developed between Presidents George H W Bush and Bill Clinton and their shared commitment to service in times of crisis. Mike sees this relationship as one hopeful model for bridge-building and unity in a deeply divided moment. Next up: part 3 of our conversation!

#140, OTOH, Mike Hemphill, Co-director of Presidential Leadership Scholars program, part 1, Nov 14 2025

Sun, 18 Jan 2026 12:40:34 -0600

In this first part of our interview with Dr. Mike Hemphill, Co-director of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, April and Glen learn how Mike's path from academia to leadership work shaped a simple but powerful belief: leadership grows out of real human interaction, not titles or formulas. He talks about why patience, curiosity, and reflection matter so much when we’re trying to communicate across differences, and how ideas from communication theory—and even jazz improvisation—help explain what good conversation really looks like. Mike also introduces the Presidential Leadership Scholars Program he co-directs, describing it as a hands-on “leadership lab” that brings together people from very different backgrounds and communities. Rather than teaching leadership from a textbook, the program focuses on storytelling, personal experience, and relationships, showing how listening, openness, and connection can broaden perspectives and help people lead more thoughtfully across political and cultural divides.

#139, OTOH, Annabelle Tuck, trailblazer in Arkansas law, part 3, Nov 7 2025

Wed, 07 Jan 2026 10:53:37 -0600

In part 3 of our conversation with Annabelle Tuck, April and Glen delve into broader issues of the law and the jurisprudential philosophies that influence decision-making by courts in the state and nationally. Recent increased use of the “shadow docket” by the US Supreme court is of concern to Annabelle, as it has a major impact on the legal status of ongoing cases without providing any rationale into the reasons for these initial decisions, leaving attorneys and courts around the country with no guidance toward resolving important legal and constitutional questions. A fascinating discussion ensues on how recent Supreme Court decisions in her view can take too big of a “slice” in some legal cases and how that can mistakenly get ahead of public opinion, an important consideration in promoting societal acceptance of the court’s decisions. We also hear about her volunteer activities during her retirement that include advocacy for greater access to the legal system by the disadvantaged.

#138, OTOH, Annabelle Tuck, trailblazer in Arkansas law, part 2, Nov 7 2025

Wed, 07 Jan 2026 10:52:47 -0600

In part 2 of our conversation with retired Arkansas Supreme Court Justice Annabelle Tuck, April and Glen explore her faith journey as she converted to Judaism, its coherence with her legal philosophy, and the Torah’s serving as a foundation for much of Western law. We also hear about her moral and legal views that led to her decisions in some legal rulings in Arkansas that continue to influence the legal landscape. Specifically, Annabelle provides a fascinating first-hand account of the thinking and judicial issues associated with the Lakeview school District case that changed the way Arkansas funded public education. She also helps us understand the underpinnings of the case involving the LGBTQ community that overturned laws against sodomy. Annabelle also shares her observations about the current judicial and legal environment that has recently changed in so many important ways that it now seems to her “another world.“

#137, OTOH, Annabelle Tuck, trailblazer in Arkansas law, part 1, Nov 7 2025

Thu, 18 Dec 2025 10:30:07 -0600

April and Glen are joined by Annabelle Clinton Imber Tuck, a trailblazer in Arkansas law and the first woman ever elected to the Arkansas Supreme Court. In this first part of our conversation with Annabelle, we hear about her early life, starting in Arkansas, and including living in South America and later in Washington, DC, then winding up back in her beloved home state of Arkansas. She describes her early life influences, her interests in the legal profession, and the intense sense of justice and fairness that has influenced her work through the years. She also explains her political leanings, which some may find surprising. She highlights her longstanding desire for everyone in court to be heard and for justice to be done, with emphasis on the value of due process.

#136, OTOH, “Best of On The Other Hand” episode, a repeat of our interview with Asa Hutchinson, former Arkansas governor and congressman, 7 10 2024

Mon, 15 Dec 2025 14:10:22 -0600

This episode of On The Other Hand is a “best of” recording of an interview in July 2024, when Glen and April spoke with Asa Hutchinson, an attorney and the previous 2-term Republican governor of Arkansas. Asa’s long history of public service includes serving as a US Congressman, one of the House managers for Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial in the Senate, head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, and chair of the National Governors Association. Asa had just recently concluded an unsuccessful campaign for the Republican presidential nominee for the 2024 election at the time of this interview. In the interview, Asa described his then current activities, what he viewed as highlights of his career, and the approach he took as governor. He explained how he handled the COVID pandemic during his term as governor, which included consulting with a variety of experts and weighing various views to help him find a way to manage Arkansas's approach to COVID that adhered to his conservative philosophy. While he outlined his strong conservative credentials, Asa also expressed concerns about several developments nationally. In particular, we heard his criticisms of how he saw the Republican party as having moved away from traditional conservative values, and his conviction that civility and compromise remain critical for the success of our government.

#135, OTOH, Kwami Abdul-Bey, community activist, Part 2, July 9 2025

Sun, 07 Dec 2025 12:20:01 -0600

In part 2 of our conversation with community activist Kwami Abdul-Bey, we hear about both his formal and atypical means of education that have led him to who he is today. He also outlines problems during his early times at the Air Force Academy due to his Muslim religion and related negative reactions occurring at a time when war with Iraq was breaking out. Some of his challenges during his early years included time being homeless. Subsequent choices about education were made with an eye to learning how best to help his community and to pass that information along to his fellow citizens. Emphasizing the importance of participation in democracy, Kwami asserts that “the fewer citizens that are involved in the process, the better off the people in power are.” He also reminds us that it is our responsibility to prepare our world to be in better shape for our children, relating it to the native American “7 generations rule”. Throughout the interview, Kwami focuses on the importance of all citizens getting involved and participating in democracy.

#134, OTOH, Kwami Abdul-Bey, community activist, Part 1, July 9 2025

Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:25:19 -0600

April and guest co-host John have a conversation with community activist Kwami Abdul-Bey, who has been a friend of Braver Angels in Arkansas for some time, co-founded or led local organizations, and serves as the Elections Coordinator & Organizer for the Arkansas Public Policy Panel. In this first part of our interview with Kwami, we explore his current involvement with several organizations locally. He provides his perspective on direct democracy and his concerns about recent laws that he believes raise barriers to Arkansas’s citizen initiatives process. A key response to him includes the importance of developing greater civic education. Kwami shares his worries about current challenges with democracy, which he sees as not now working as he was taught, something that especially troubles him as he seeks to answer questions his kids are raising about what is going on now, based on what they hear. Among his attempts to enhance community response to those challenges, he has helped create the Washitaw Foothills Youth Media Arts & Literacy Collective. Other aspects of our discussion include his views of dealing with both the “grass tops” and the “grass roots” in his community advocacy. Kwami also talks about his recent experience of running for public office as a Democrat, despite his history of being an independent. Despite much negative reaction to his association with the Democratic party, he tells us a story of one voter who sought him out and apologized to him recently for having been disrespectful to him because he ran as Democrat, after the winner the man voted for proved to not be who he thought. Kwami urges citizen involvement, stating “let’s stop being spectators, because democracy is not a spectator sport.”

#133, OTOH, Sherry Simon & Britt Skarda, leaders in protest vs Rep French Hill, Part 2, Oct 23 2025

Sun, 23 Nov 2025 16:32:17 -0600

In the second part of our conversation with Dr. Sherry Simon and Rev. Britt Skarda, we continue exploring what motivates their sustained civic participation and how people of faith can model engagement rooted in love and respect. Both guests describe the weekly gatherings in protest outside Congressman French Hill’s office as a diverse and committed community of citizens, consisting of veterans, teachers, parents, and neighbors, who come together out of concern for the country’s democratic health and future generations.

The discussion broadens to consider the challenges of political leadership, the tensions between principle and compromise, and the importance of maintaining dialogue even when disagreements run deep. Sherry and Britt emphasize the need for courage, empathy, and moral clarity in public life, noting that “we don’t have enough models for loving kindness” and exhorting listeners that “democracy is teetering on the edge… get out there… do something!”

We continue to seek Congressman Hill’s perspective for a future episode to enrich this conversation and deepen understanding across differing views.

#132, OTOH, Sherry Simon & Britt Skarda, leaders in protest vs Rep French Hill, Part 1, Oct 23 2025

Sun, 16 Nov 2025 15:44:41 -0600

#131, OTOH, Jim Lagrone, Director of Family Council's Church Ambassador Network for Arkansas, Part 3, Sept 23 2025

Sun, 09 Nov 2025 17:08:49 -0600

In the 3rd and final part of our conversation with Jim Lagrone of Family Council's Church Ambassador Network, April and Glen explore with Jim issues of political polarization and civil discourse. Jim stressed the importance of character in political leadership, noting that leaders mirror the values of their culture. He shared his admiration for forgiveness shown amidst tragedy. Jim also provided practical advice for navigating political polarization within congregations, advising pastors to emphasize spiritual guidance, love, and respectful communication. The discussion touched upon concerns about the divisiveness of issues like abortion and the role of the 24-hour news cycle. Jim also affirmed the importance of caring for the environment, a value he admits some Christians have not always appreciated. Given the knowledge we now have of its importance, he suggests environmental concerns should be embraced. Jim also promoted the idea of political unity through initiatives like Braver Angels, discussing the challenges of engaging conservative churches, and he shared his mixed personal feelings about figures like Donald Trump, while advising against criticizing or endorsing politicians when advocating for unity.

#130, OTOH, Jim Lagrone, Director of Family Council’s Church Ambassador Network for Arkansas, Part 2, Sept 23 2025

Sun, 02 Nov 2025 13:57:15 -0600

In part 2 of our conversation with Jim Lagrone, he tells of a Baptist pastor who moved his family into a troubled neighborhood to turn it around, showing the positive ways faith-based efforts can have impacts beyond what occurs on Sundays in church. He also described pilot programs in Arkansas and other states where churches successfully collaborated to address social needs like crime and homelessness. Jim emphasized the importance of faith leaders collaborating with government officials on shared community goals, despite potential policy disagreements. He also said he advises pastors against endorsing political candidates, despite recent IRS statements that now allow those actions in churches. Jim then argues that misconceptions of "Christian nationalism" serve primarily as a political "attack line" used to target churches. He urged Christians to focus on building genuine relationships with others and approaching them with the love and understanding of Jesus rather than resorting to judgment of others or focusing on legislating morality.

#129, OTOH, Jim Lagrone, Director of Family Council’s Church Ambassador Network for Arkansas, Part 1, Sept 23 2025

Sun, 26 Oct 2025 16:18:28 -0500

April and Glen talk with Jim Lagrone, director of the Family Council’s Church Ambassador Network (CAN). In this first part of our conversation, Jim describes his journey in ministry of nearly 50 years, which includes diverse roles like hospice chaplaincy and pastoral leadership. He shared his core leadership philosophy, which is rooted in humility, service, and a love for people. Jim admits to unexpected lessons learned about how there are people with self-serving motivations even in religious and civic spheres. He then detailed CAN's mission and operations, stressing that their work focuses on approaching and building personal relationships between pastors and legislators, while avoiding lobbying for specific legislation. These pastors help legislators by, for example, providing resources and offering guidance on political engagement. One disclosure he felt some would find surprising was that during a prior period of service on a school board, Jim voted against banning a book that was targeted locally.

Title: #128, OTOH, Harmony Health leaders and physicians Grant Morshedi and Angela Harris, Part 2, August 29 2025

Sun, 19 Oct 2025 18:12:44 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Grant Morshedi and Angela Harris, April and Glen explore how Harmony Health is adapting to decreased government support, including a recently canceled CDC grant that would have funded a new building, which leaves them having to pay rent rather than owning a building for their services. Angela provided details about various funding options they utilize, such as via a key fundraiser for them, the annual World Cheese Dip Championship in Little Rock. Grant shared patient stories illustrating how healthcare access impacts broader societal issues like employment and family well-being, and Angela shared success stories of patients whose lives were transformed through health care received at Harmony Health. The conversation concluded with a call to action for listeners to support healthcare access and Harmony Health, as their financial base has become increasingly challenging.

Title: #127, OTOH, Harmony Health leaders and physician Grant Morshedi and Angela Harris, Part 1, August 29 2025

Sun, 12 Oct 2025 18:07:29 -0500

On this episode of On the Other Hand, hosts April Chatham-Carpenter and Glen White speak with Dr. Grant Morshedi and Angela Harris of Harmony Health Clinic in Little Rock. They discuss the clinic’s free medical and dental services for uninsured Arkansans, volunteer staffing, support programs like a food pantry and behavioral health services, and the values of empathy and community that drive their work. Among the key issues discussed in this episode, both Grant and Angela emphasize the importance of access to health care because of how easily many citizens can be unable to afford or access healthcare despite their responsible behavior and willingness to work. Empathy for persons encountering such challenges is discussed, including an intriguing exchange about recent devaluing of empathy. Both talk about the personal benefits they derive from their work in this setting, which is clearly not done for financial gain.

#126, OTOH, Arkansas Democrat-Gazette owner & publisher Eliza Hussman Gaines, Part 2, Sept 11 2025

Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:25:12 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with publisher Eliza Hussman Gaines, April and Glen explore the Democrat-Gazette's efforts to adapt to digital platforms and reach younger audiences through social media and video content. Eliza explains the paper’s "readers first" approach, editorial rules to avoid loaded language, and the importance of the Freedom of Information law in Arkansas for community transparency. Eliza discusses the challenges faced by local news organizations in Arkansas, including the decline of newspapers in rural areas, highlighting the importance of collaboration between news outlets to reach underserved audiences and the role of organizations like the Knight Foundation in supporting local journalism. She also discusses the business challenges facing local journalism, strategies to reach new audiences, reporter safety, news deserts, and the need for media literacy and collaboration to rebuild trust. In addressing the increasing mistrust people have in media sources, Eliza advises government officials to support and trust media rather than demonizing it. She expresses optimism about community engagement and the potential for change, while acknowledging the difficulties posed by low trust in media and restricted press access. Creative options for collaborating with other media sources is seen as a potential means for maintaining a viable, quality source of news for the public.

#125, OTOH, Arkansas Democrat-Gazette owner & publisher Eliza Hussman Gaines, Part 1, Sept 11 2025

Sun, 28 Sep 2025 08:44:15 -0500

April Chatham‑Carpenter and Glen White interview Eliza Hussman Gaines, a fourth-generation newspaper industry leader and publisher of the Arkansas Democrat‑Gazette, as well as a leader in her family’s news media group, WEHCO. Eliza describes her family’s newsroom legacy, the difference between editorial and publishing roles, and the newsroom values that guide fair reporting. Eliza emphasized the role of journalists as community leaders and the view of she and her family as being stewards of the public’s access to quality information.

We discuss challenges facing local journalism—trust, misinformation, and the use of AI, Artificial Intelligence, in her company's news organization. We also explore how strong journalistic ethics, community stewardship, and smart business choices help sustain quality local news. Also discussed are concerns about recent legislative changes to Arkansas’s Freedom Of Information law and the importance of maintaining a strong FOIA law that ensures Arkansans have access to information about its government.

Eliza points out threats to a free press currently facing our country and how their paper uses several approaches to ensure that the information they provide the public is accurate and neutral. She emphasizes the broad range of political opinions that they publish in their paper as a means of covering multiple views that provide important perspectives to their readers.

# 124, OTOH,, Authors and national Braver Angels leaders Doug Teschner and Beth Malow,, Pt 2, 8-22-25

Sun, 21 Sep 2025 17:51:38 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Doug Teschner and Beth Malow, Braver Angels national leaders and authors of a new book ("Beyond the Politics of Contempt: Practical Steps to Build Positive Relationships in Divided Times,") April and Glen explore the role of "conflict entrepreneurs" (Amanda Ripley's term) who profit from or actively seek to divide Americans. They point out the importance of people understanding "how they're being manipulated," and they encourage each of us to ask ourselves, "Am I part of the problem?" or "Am I a conflict enabler?" Despite many current challenges, which are discussed in some detail, the authors express hope for the country's future, asserting that people are "hungry" for solutions and that the "pendulum will swing back." Doug’s work across political divides in the New Hampshire Legislature is described as one example of how to help make positive changes. Doug and Beth urge individuals to take what action they can in their own lives to help move our country back to a better place. Their book launched on September 9th and is available on Amazon and other online outlets. It offers readers many suggestions on how to make meaningful contributions to improving our national dialogue, with numerous stories of how others have taken encouraging steps. See their website for a sample chapter: beyondthepoliticsofcontempt.com.

# 123, OTOH, Authors and national Braver Angels leaders Doug Teschner and Beth Malow, , Pt 1, 8-22-25

Sun, 14 Sep 2025 20:50:19 -0500

April and Glen have a conversation with fellow Braver Angels and national leaders Doug Teschner and Beth Malow, whose new book, "Beyond the Politics of Contempt: Practical Steps to Build Positive Relationships in Divided Times," revolves around addressing the increasing political polarization and divisiveness in the United States and offering practical steps to foster positive relationships and civil discourse. Key discussions in part 1 include the importance of disagreement in a democracy, as it is a natural and necessary step toward finding solutions. However, Doug cautions that "when we dehumanize people" by calling them "evil," "stupid," or "not a patriot," this prevents productive engagement and leads to an "us versus them mentality,” even dehumanization, which degrades a healthy democracy. A crucial first step is for individuals to identify their core values and then reflect on whether their actions and words, especially when discussing political opponents, align with those values. "Are you living your values?" Beth expresses concern that in our current environment, the "exhausted majority" have withdrawn into their bubbles and silo and has become apathetic. Their book aims to inspire these individuals to return to a healthy form of democratic and societal engagement.

# 122 OTOH, UA Little Rock Assistant Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Sharon Downs, on bullying, wellness and inclusion, Part 2, June 24 2025

Sun, 07 Sep 2025 16:15:09 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Sharon Downs, she outlines a variety of practical strategies and societal trends related to communication and bullying. We unpack the bystander effect, a phenomenon that often prevents intervention in bullying situations, and we learn about the "five D's" of intervention—a practical toolkit for anyone who wants to help when someone is being bullied. We also examine how social media and political polarization have normalized bullying behaviors and discuss the challenges posed by misinformation and confirmation bias. Sharon provides insightful recommendations for further learning and offers a hopeful perspective on a possible generational shift towards more respectful communication. This episode will be of particular interest for anyone interested in effective communication, conflict resolution, and understanding the complex dynamics that shape our public discourse.

# 121 OTOH, UA Little Rock Assistant Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Sharon Downs, on bullying, wellness and inclusion, Part 1, June 24 2025

Sun, 31 Aug 2025 22:50:35 -0500

Join us in this first of two episodes of our conversation with Sharon Downs, Assistant Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs at UA Little Rock. Sharon's professional focus is on wellness and promoting inclusivity, and she is also an expert in addressing bullying. She shares her personal journey, from her early experiences with bullying to her pioneering work in establishing safe zone training at UA Little Rock. We hear her views of the critical role of allyship and the importance of creating supportive environments. The discussion also delves into the challenges of bullying in today's politically polarized climate, with Sharon offering valuable strategies for measured and assertive responses. Sharon offers us a powerful exploration of personal growth, professional dedication, and the courage to stand up against bullying, including on social media.

# 120, OTOH, Providence Park for Homeless leaders Errin Stanger and Mandy Davis, Part 2, July 18 2025

Sun, 24 Aug 2025 13:39:01 -0500

In the second part of our conversation with Providence Park for Homeless leaders Errin Stanger and Mandy Davis, we delve into how they envision long-term success and thriving communities. A fascinating aspect is the introduction of "missionals" – individuals who live alongside residents, offering friendship and support, acting as the "secret sauce" of the neighborhood. You'll also hear about their plans for on-site workforce development, empowering residents through meaningful work within the community itself, fostering dignity and morale. We discuss their approach to collaboration across diverse perspectives, emphasizing that meeting the real needs of the unsheltered population guides all their partnerships. Finally, you'll hear deeply personal stories highlighting the profound human connections forged and how Providence Park is combatting a pervasive societal issue: loneliness, creating a mutually beneficial environment for everyone involved.

# 119, OTOH, Providence Park for Homeless leaders Errin Stanger and Mandy Davis, Part 1, July 18 2025

Sun, 17 Aug 2025 16:16:29 -0500

Are you curious about transforming homelessness and building vibrant communities? Check out part 1 of this conversation, where April and substitute co-host John O’Brien chat with Errin Stanger & Mandy Davis of Providence Park, a 50-acre planned community dedicated to providing permanent, affordable housing and a supportive environment for individuals transitioning from chronic homelessness in Central Arkansas. Inspired by a highly successful model in Austin, Texas, this project believes that housing combined with a strong sense of community creates true sustainability. We explore their unique vision, including beautifully furnished tiny homes designed with community in mind, and communal spaces like a central kitchen and laundry facility to foster connection. Hear how they define and serve the chronic homeless population, ensuring the right intervention for those most in need. Discover the vital partnerships propelling this ambitious project forward and how you can get involved.

# 118, OTOH, Glen & April Red/Blue conversation on free speech, Part 4, May 7 2025

Sun, 10 Aug 2025 16:07:48 -0500

Glen and April conclude the 4th and final part of their Red/Blue conversation on free speech with an exploration of the importance of having a balanced “media diet,” which includes exposure to a wide variety of viewpoints to gain a comprehensive understanding of reality. Available media bias charts were noted as a useful tool for comparing different news sources in terms of objectivity, political slants, and fairness. Also discussed was how much and when to trust scientific research and experts. The issue of balancing competing values in free speech was emphasized, and the team also explored the Supreme Court decision that equated money with speech. Other discussions included the importance of free speech in terms of its rights but also its moral responsibilities, considering the impact on others and the community. Glen and April also highlighted the importance of self-awareness, being open to change, and focusing on positive interactions. The conversation ended on a note of unity, with both speakers recognizing commonalities in their perspectives on free speech.

# 117, OTOH, Glen & April Red/Blue conversation on free speech, Part 3, May 7 2025

Sun, 03 Aug 2025 08:25:13 -0500

Glen and April start part 3 of our Red/Blue conversation on free speech by discussing the intricate balance between free speech and the imperative to combat misinformation and harmful content. They delve into categories of unprotected speech, the concept of cancel culture, and the roles of government and private companies in content moderation. The conversation also touches upon the importance of ethical communication, including the current practice of doxing individuals of power on “the other side,” the challenges of determining factual information, and the necessity of respectful dialogue when addressing controversial topics. Both speakers acknowledge the difficulty of drawing clear lines between protected and unprotected speech in the digital age.

# 116, OTOH, Ryan Davis, Children International director, Part 2, June 20 2025

Sun, 27 Jul 2025 13:09:33 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Ryan Davis, Executive Director for Children’s International in Little Rock, April and Glen explore his work with the Rockefeller Foundation as a faith-based consultant, as well as with various interfaith Initiatives that include Christians, imams, rabbis, and Buddhist representatives to discuss and engage with legislative bodies on public policy. His runs for public office are motivated in part by his belief that we all have a "prophetic mandate" to speak to those in power, regardless of political affiliation. Ryan describes his political identity as a "Christian Democratic Socialist," and explains the importance of government providing assistance to those in need, including the “working poor” who can have their financial earnings easily exhausted by unexpected expenses. Governmental budgets he sees as reflecting the values of that society, so with respect to relying on non-governmental assistance, he states "we can't food pantry our way out of this problem.” Ryan describes how an east African directive shapes his thinking and career: “Work with the clay while it is still wet.” By helping people when they’re young, Davis hopes to shape the future and lessen the number of “broken adults.” As a concluding story, he recalls a question a young person asked him that inspired him to continually remind himself of “why I am here.”

#115, OTOH, Ryan Davis, Children International director, Part 1, 6 20 2025

Mon, 21 Jul 2025 08:13:06 -0500

April and Glen talk with Ryan Davis, Executive Director for Children International in Little Rock. Ryan is also a faith-based strategy consultant for the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation and a Board Member of the Arkansas Public Policy Panel. In this first part of our interview with Ryan, he provides a summary of the work done by Children International and his role locally, which includes helping raise funding for educational and other interventions with children who need assistance. He traces how the influence of his family and early religious values led to his current views and help to motivate his work. Among his work through Children International is helping provide education related to social and emotional development in children. Given that some on the right object to this type of education, Ryan defends its role in the educational system and explains its importance in the healthy development of children with whom Children International works.

# 114, OTOH, Glen & April Red/Blue conversation on free speech, Part 2, May 7 2025

Sun, 13 Jul 2025 20:38:30 -0500

In part 2 of April and Glen’s “Red/Blue” discussion on free speech, they delve into the challenges of combating misinformation and “bad speech” in a free speech society. Glen argues that simply providing more accurate information is not always effective, as people’s beliefs are often influenced by emotions and tribalism rather than rationality. April concurs and emphasizes the significance of relationship-building and structured debates in addressing misinformation. She highlights Braver Angels’ approach, which utilizes compassionate curiosity and structured conversations to understand diverse perspectives and challenge falsehoods without compromising free speech. Both speakers underscore the need for nuanced approaches that transcend mere facts to effectively address misinformation. The discussion also explores the complexities of regulating speech on social media and in society as a whole. Glen and April discuss the intricate balance between free speech and the imperative to combat misinformation and harmful content. They delve into categories of unprotected speech, the concept of cancel culture, and the roles of government and private companies in content moderation. The conversation also touches upon the importance of ethical communication, including the current practice of doxing individuals of power on “the other side,” the challenges of determining factual information, and the necessity of respectful dialogue when addressing controversial topics. Both speakers acknowledge the difficulty of drawing clear lines between protected and unprotected speech in the digital age.

# 113, OTOH, Glen & April Red/Blue conversation on free speech, Part 1, May 7 2025

Sun, 06 Jul 2025 19:13:44 -0500

In this first of a four-part “Red/Blue” discussion, Glen and April engage in a free-wheeling conversation on the topic of freedom of speech. They delve into issues surrounding free speech in the United States, with April speaking from a primarily conservative view and Glen from a generally liberal perspective. Among key points of discussion, April emphasizes free speech as a fundamental constitutional right safeguarding individuals from government interference, particularly when expressing unpopular or traditional views. She introduces the concept of “virtuous free speech,” striking a balance between the right to speak and the responsibility to speak well. Glen concurs with many of April’s points, highlighting that free speech rights are primarily protected against government intrusion, not in the private sector. He underscores that while free speech is a legal right, responsible use of it is a voluntary moral decision. Glen provides examples of controversial protected speech, such as flag burning and Westboro Baptist Church protests, to illustrate the importance of protecting even objectionable speech to prevent government overreach. Both speakers acknowledge the need to strike a balance between free speech rights and other competing principles and interests.

The discussion then shifts to the complexities of free speech in higher education, particularly on public university campuses. April and Glen explore the role of government in regulating speech and the challenges of balancing free expression with the need for a safe learning environment. April describes her interest in the Heterodox Academy, an organization that advocates for viewpoint diversity and open inquiry in universities. Part 1 concludes by highlighting the ongoing debate about the limits of free speech and the potential for self-censorship among students.

#112, OTOH, Carlton Wing, Republican legislator in AR House, Part 2, June 10 2025

Sun, 29 Jun 2025 18:14:44 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Carlton Wing, Glen and April explore his thoughts on how to legislate from principle vs populism. Carlton bemoans the negative influences of extremists on both the left and right, and he cites the challenges politicians face in sometimes having to speak to the base of the party in order to be re-elected. Yet Carlton rejects name-calling as “an intellectual copout.” He also outlines a largely optimistic view of where he thinks Arkansas is headed politically. Carlton offers insights into how Arkansans can best provide feedback and have on impact on legislators, and he urges everyone to consider reaching out to their governmental officials. He finishes with a description of his poetic approach to lobbying for passage of his first bill as a freshman legislator.

#111, OTOH, Carlton Wing, Republican legislator in AR House, Part 1, June 10 2025

Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:36:58 -0500

Carlton Wing, Republican member of the Arkansas House of Representatives from the 70th district, sits down with April and Glen to talk about his career in sports media, his role as a host several years for a worldwide fishing tournament, and as a legislator since 2016. Carlton traces his early influences on his views and then describes his current work in government as “servant leadership.” He strongly believes that his role in the legislature is to serve the people by focusing on principle before policies, and he believes the majority of Arkansans see things from somewhere in the middle, between extremes on both the left and right. Carlton feels all in government should work together, something he promotes by seeking to lower the temperature politically and to build bridges. After describing friendships he has made with Democrats, he outlines several key laws and issues that have been passed recently or that he feels must be addressed soon. Carlton focuses in particular on the need for addressing taxation policy that ensures all programs seen as important are able to be funded. He also praises recent work to promote the natural resources of Arkansas, given research showing the value to mental health of time spent in nature.

# 110, OTOH, Jonathan Seaborn, Manager of Little Rock Public radio, Part 2, June 3 2025

Sun, 15 Jun 2025 16:57:05 -0500

In part 2 of April and Glen’s conversation with Jonathan Seaborn, general manager of Little Rock Public Radio, Jonathan addresses criticisms from some listeners who complain of excessive coverage of some right-leaning figures such as Steve Bannon and President Trump. We also discuss the challenges of dealing with misinformation and disinformation in media, and how KUAR is working to meet that challenge. In discussing the past and current pushes to defund public media (e.g., NPR & PBS), Jonathan cites the relative contributions by public and private sources for KUAR’s operations and what recent threats to disable public funding of public media could mean in terms of what is likely to be lost within the community should that threat come to fruition. We also learn how the public radio stations in Arkansas are collaborating to serve the entire state of Arkansas, including more rural areas that may lack any alternative media options.

# 109, OTOH, Jonathan Seaborn, Manager of Little Rock Public radio, Part 1, June 3 2025

Mon, 09 Jun 2025 08:48:49 -0500

April and Glen talk with Jonathan Seaborn, general manager of Little Rock Public Radio & KUAR/KLRE radio stations. In this first part of our chat with Jonathan, we learn about his impressive credentials that brought him to Little Rock, as well as the extensive work he now does for Little Rock Public Radio to ensure that the many regulations and compliance requirements for public media are met. While this accountability is welcome, it reflects the station’s primary purpose of meeting needs of the community that may not always be met by more commercially viable media, where the emphasis tends to lean toward income from popular content or issues. Jonathan gives examples in both central Arkansas and in other states where local needs are met by public media that play critical roles in such areas as how citizens can secure resources and assistance in the aftermath of natural disasters. Jonathan mentions recent and existing concerns about aging infrastructure and technology, needing to relocate to a new space, and other challenges that are currently or have recently been addressed via community donations. Also discussed is the common perception that public radio tends to be a liberal voice, a perception that Jonathan asserts is, in large part, a misunderstanding of the products of National Public Radio vs other non-NPR products that may be part of programming for some NPR-affiliated stations.

# 108, OTOH, Julien Mirivel, UA Little Rock Professor of Communication, Part 2, April 8 2025

Sun, 01 Jun 2025 12:13:05 -0500

In part 2 of April and Glen’s conversation with Dr. Julien Mirivel, Professor of Applied Communication at UA-Little Rock and developer of the positive communication model (www.julienmirivel.com), we explore how to use positive communication practically. One specific example is how to deal with “conflict entrepreneurs” who purposely create or stoke conflict across divisions as a way to gain personally in some way. Julien emphasizes that communication is a choice and a “moral act” -- and gives examples of how he uses this approach in his classroom during difficult discussions. We also hear about his work with Heifer International in studying human transformation that happens as a result of that organization’s work. Julien also describes the individual and community aspects of positive communication, as well as how he thinks loneliness, an increasing problem in our society, may be helped via his ideas. We conclude with his story about an influential and memorable moment he experienced in Nepal.

# 107, OTOH, Julien Mirivel, UA Little Rock Professor of Communication, Part 1, April 8 2025

Sun, 25 May 2025 15:05:53 -0500

April and Glen’s guest for this episode is Dr. Julien Mirivel, Professor of Applied Communication at UA-Little Rock, an author, teacher, scholar, researcher and academic leader. Julien is a native of France but has lived most of his adult life in the US. He is now a citizen and lives in Little Rock with his wife and 3 children. In this first part of our conversation with Julien, he explains his model of positive communication and breaks down the several key elements of his model, which he teaches and promotes nationally and internationally via the Positive Communication Network (http://www.positivecommunication.net/) he led in developing. We discuss ways his approach to communication can help overcome the strong attraction of negative or fear-based types of communication, and how it can also help with the problem of political polarization.

#106, OTOH, Andrew Collins, AR House minority leader & attorney, Part 2, April 22 2025

Sun, 18 May 2025 09:27:47 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Andrew Collins, Democratic state representative and minority leader in the Arkansas House, April and Glen learn about changes Andrew has seen over the course of his 4 terms as a legislator. He also describes his hopes that some “overreaching” by members of the majority party will eventually be understood by Arkansans and they will be corrected by voters. Responding to a quote from his social media, Andrew explains his belief in the importance of speaking up when things are moving in the wrong direction in the state and nation. He also speaks with pride about a bipartisan action taken in a previous session to stand up for legal and moral standards by legislators. Andrew further tells of how he seeks out members with views different from his own in order to form relationships and improve his ability to work effectively in his role, with an eye toward what is best for Arkansans overall.

#105, OTOH, Andrew Collins, AR House minority leader & attorney, Part 1, April 22 2025

Fri, 09 May 2025 14:26:17 -0500

Andrew Collins, Democratic state representative and minority leader in the Arkansas House, sat down with Glen and April to discuss his work in the legislature, including the recently concluded 2025 regular session. In part 1 of our conversation, Andrew describes his early life and values that led to his career and his decision to run for elected office. His voting decisions include many votes for bills by Republicans, sometimes even members who in other instances hold positions antithetical to his own, but he explains how his votes are based on important considerations other than who sponsors the bill. Among the many bills he is asked to consider, he outlines some of concern to him as well as positive ones. Andrew also expresses concerns about the increasing incursion of national issues into their lawmaking, and of the spread of erroneous information that can sometimes be influential in voting behavior.

#104, OTOH, Philip Martin, journalist, author and musician, Part 3, Feb 21 2025

Sun, 04 May 2025 12:17:32 -0500

For the 3rd and final part of our interview with journalist, author and musician Philip Martin, Glen and April hear from Philip about some of the challenges he encounters as a public figure who offers opinions that are not always welcome by some people. He offers his thoughts on differences between advocacy journalism and that he sees being currently practiced at the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. Expressing his disappointment in how many people are easily manipulated in our current media environment, he offers some ideas on how to address that problem. Philip then concludes with a personal story about instructions from an editor early in his career and how that changed him.

#103, OTOH, Philip Martin, journalist, author and musician, Part 2, Feb 21 2025

Fri, 25 Apr 2025 16:49:39 -0500

In the second of our three episodes with Philip Martin - journalist, author and musician - April and Glen explore Phil's views of journalism past, present and future. He offers advice to young persons who may be considering journalism and the qualities that he'd prefer to see in who chooses to pursue that career. Phil also provides his perspective on the increasing problem of mis/disinformation and suggests some guidelines for where and how to gain information within the broader media environment. We also discuss with Phil his view of Hillary Clinton's presidential run, and he discloses some interesting inside information provided to him at that time.

#102, OTOH, Philip Martin, journalist, author and musician, Part 1, Feb 21 2025

Sat, 19 Apr 2025 09:35:41 -0500

April & Glen welcome Philip Martin, a journalist, author and musician, into conversation about his life and work. In part 1 of our interview with Philip, we briefly review his extensive pursuits over the years, which include a brief stint as a pro baseball player, author of several books, appearances over the years in local and national media, and his love of music (including being a musician and songwriter). We also explore his career in journalism, which most recently includes many years with the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, for which he writes regular columns on music, movies, politics and other topics. Phil shares with us his wish for politics to once again be dull and not entertaining. His approach to ongoing demands for writing in his job is also described. Stay tuned for parts 2 and 3 of our conversation with Philip.

#101, OTOH, Shana Chaplin, Program Director for Winthrop Rockefeller Institute, Part 2, Feb 13 2025

Sun, 13 Apr 2025 17:10:43 -0500

In part 2 of this conversation with Shana Chaplin, Program Director for the Winthrop Rockefeller Institute in Arkansas, Glen and April hear how local government can get its citizens engaged and active. The new Civic Guide, recently published by the Civic Arkansas imitative (https://rockefellerinstitute.org/programs/civic-arkansas/), is posed as one important tool to help citizens get involved. The initiative also has partnered with Miss Teen Arkansas and with others to facilitate more involvement and education among young Arkansans. The fatigue by Arkansans over persistent divisiveness is one source of mistrust in news sources, worsened by current strong misinformation currents in the media environment. Ways the Civic Arkansas initiative addresses this challenge are discussed. Shana also describes an effort to encourage civility in public discussions to hopefully improve a sense of trust among those who seek to engage in their communities. Hopeful signs are highlighted, including the willingness of most Arkansans to help neighbors during times of community crisis without regard to their beliefs or political views, along with the difficulties accompanying that community response.

#100, OTOH Shana Chaplin, Program Director for Winthrop Rockefeller Institute, Part 1, Feb 13 2025

Mon, 07 Apr 2025 11:47:14 -0500

Shana Chaplin, Program Director for the Winthrop Rockefeller Institute in Arkansas, speaks with Glen and April, focusing on the state of civic health in Arkansas. Born to an Arkansas family but raised in an international setting, Shana's experience and training that prepare her for expertise in civic engagement are traced. We then discuss the Civic Index, which in Arkansas has shown us to be in many ways very low in the country in civic involvement and awareness. In a move to help improve this status in our state, the Winthrop Rockefeller Institute, the Clinton School, and other organizations worked together to plan how to address our state's deficiencies in this area through the Civic Arkansas initiative (https://rockefellerinstitute.org/programs/civic-arkansas/). Various community partners have joined in this initiative, including Braver Angels Arkansas. Shana provides concrete explanations and examples of civic engagement and why it is important in a democracy, while sharing findings from initial efforts by the Civic Arkansas initiative. She describes various similarities and differences across variables such as age or rural/urban settings. We explore with Shana what is being done now with partner groups as part of the initiative. Impediments to progress in civic education, including some aspects of the current media environment, limited public spaces for citizen engagement, and other factors, are described. Shana also argues that democracy requires participation and that the decline in citizen involvement in America has important implications for the health of our democratic form of government. Some of the tools that are already being offered via the Winthrop Rockefeller Institute to address these concerns are outlined, along with challenges still needing to be addressed.

# 99, OTOH, Glen, April, & Jerry Henderson provide update on polarization research and solutions, Part 5 of 5, Feb 6 2025

Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:12:23 -0500

For this 5th and final part of our update on political polarization research and thinking, Glen begins with his thoughts on solutions for political polarization related problems, which include research on societal characteristics that are associated with peaceful societies. For the remainder of this final episode, we all discuss several other ideas, which include contact theory, and other positive practices. We then conclude our discussion with some thoughts on how we might best proceed in our society’s political conversations so that we retain a healthy, functioning democracy and society.

# 98, OTOH, Glen, April, & Jerry Henderson provide update on polarization research and solutions, Part 4 of 5, Feb 6 2025

Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:14:23 -0500

In part 4 of our 5 episodes devoted to updates on polarization research and related topics, Glen and April provide specific information that they chose as important in understanding and dealing with various polarization related issues. Glen begins by describing how various behaviors in society are enabled by powerful effects of social modeling, then he focuses on mis- & disinformation as a growing and malevolent influence on polarization. Glen offers suggestions for how we might address this increasing problem of erroneous information in our digitally influenced society. Suggestions include the importance of education that helps us all improve our media literacy, as well as the importance of building community. April encourages continued respect toward those who may be inadvertently spreading bad information and to continue to engage with others, even when some of their ideas are uncomfortable for us. Jerry points out how compassion and mindfulness practices can serve as a healing alternative to excessive reliance on either emotion or reason. April then discusses various types of civility and how they can be either more or less helpful in dealing with conflict. We conclude this round with a more in-depth discussion of the key points covered. Next up will be our 5th and final episode in this series on polarization research and thinking.

#97, OTOH, Glen, April, & Jerry Henderson provide update on polarization research and solutions, Part 3 of 5, Feb 6 2025

Sun, 16 Mar 2025 22:43:27 -0500

In this 3rd of 5 episodes for our polarization research update, our guest Jerry Henderson starts by providing information on current thinking in Evolutionary Psychology and on origins of tribalism as a powerful force. Jerry describes how this all relates to understanding polarization and why we are prone to many of the behaviors and problems we currently see in our society related to political differences and conflict. Glen points out how the age of Enlightenment and its new focus on reason, while largely a positive development in civilized society, failed to understand the huge role played by emotion, intuition and other unconscious processes in how we believe and behave. April then discusses potential imitations in relying excessively upon rationality and the importance of utilizing effectively the emotions and intuitions that influence us. We continue to vigorously discuss our thoughts regarding the new information covered.

# 96, OTOH, Glen, April, & Jerry Henderson provide update on polarization research and solutions, Part 2 of 5, Feb 6 2025

Sat, 15 Mar 2025 02:35:23 -0500

For part 2 of our polarization research update, Jerry and Glen present their thoughts on topic 1 (Why is it important to understand political polarization?), after which April, Glen and Jerry all discuss the new information from Glen and Jerry. Discussion points include the impact of polarization on societal health, both of individuals and of democracy itself; Influences from media and the digital environment; and role of social norms in how we respond to polarization.

In part 3 next, we’ll begin having each of us present information on a topic of our choice that relates to the overall intent of providing an update to the latest research and thinking about political polarization and related issues.

# 95, OTOH, Glen, April, & Jerry Henderson provide update on polarization research and solutions, Part 1, Feb 6 2025

Sun, 09 Mar 2025 17:08:12 -0500

For this first of 5 parts of an extended conversation, Glen and April welcome a returning guest, Dr. Jerry Henderson, a retired psychologist. In 2022, Glen and Jerry discussed some key research findings and expert opinions on political polarization, formation of beliefs in humans, and related topics. In this new 5-part series, the three of us are updating information in this rich field of study, as we each provide some of our highlights from the latest research and thinking on political polarization and related topics. After we provide a brief introduction to the structure of the series, we each briefly describe our credentials and other work that establishes our credibility in providing this information. We then begin to provide our thoughts on topic 1: Why is it important to understand political polarization? April starts with some basic definitions and questions for how we can assess our own degree of polarization. Next, we all engage in discussion about the information April provided.

In the next episode, part 2 in this series, Jerry and Glen will present their thoughts on the importance of understanding polarization, after which we engage in discussion about the newly presented information.

#94 OTOH, Anthony Taylor, Catholic Bishop of Little Rock, Part 2, Feb 5 2025

Sat, 01 Mar 2025 17:21:04 -0600

In this second part of our conversation with Little Rock Catholic Bishop Anthony Taylor, Glen and April explore with him how he deals with polarized congregations and other potentially difficult conversations with groups or individuals. One intriguing guideline he suggests following in such situations is to "will the good," an approach he explains in terms of religious and personal strategies. Anthony also provides insight into his views on navigating potential conflicts between religion and government, science, non-believers, and others. He also describes his thinking on dealing with religious extremists of various faiths, including those within Christianity. He ends with a story about the highly unusual circumstances of his entry into school as a first grader.

#93 OTOH, Anthony Taylor, Catholic Bishop of Little Rock, Part 1, Feb 5 2025

Mon, 24 Feb 2025 09:02:17 -0600

April and Glen welcome the Bishop of the Little Rock Catholic Church, Anthony Taylor, on our podcast. In this first part of our conversation with Bishop Taylor, he provides us with insight into early influences on his religious and moral values, which include a family history of persecution during the holocaust. Anthony also draws a distinction between the laws of government and religion, the latter of which he describes as a "higher law." Anthony's explanations of how Catholic teachings and traditions emphasize the common good are explored in several specific examples from the Catholic faith. He also highlights his long history of working with the Hispanic community, as well as his and the church's views of immigration as a human right.

#92 OTOH, Kate Tandy, Bridge USA founder at UA, part 2, 1-31-25

Mon, 17 Feb 2025 08:36:50 -0600

In the second part of our conversation with UA student and founder of the local Bridge USA chapter at the university, Kate Tandy speaks with April and Glen about various barriers encountered by her fellow students, including some surprising difficulties that reflect the dramatic changes in communication that pose challenges for young people only familiar with the current, largely digitized communication system in our country. Kate shares some of the issues that she sees as energizing young adults politically, as well as her choice to have hope for the future, despite several discouraging elements currently facing her generation and the country.

#91 OTOH, Kate Tandy, Bridge USA founder at UA, part 1, 1-31-25

Mon, 10 Feb 2025 19:35:40 -0600

#91 OTOH, Kate Tandy, Bridge USA founder at UA, part 1, 1-31-25

Glen and April welcome University of Arkansas student Kate Tandy, who founded the UA Fayetteville branch of Bridge USA, a national organization of college students who are working to build bridges across the political divide with youth in higher education settings. In this first part of our conversation, we hear about how Kate came to have a strong interest in politics and how she eventually acted to form a chapter of Bridge USA in her university setting. Among the matters we discuss in this part of the interview, we learn how Kate came to her current political views, which differ significantly from those with which she was familiar growing up in her family. She also describes her values that help her maintain close, positive relationships with family members and others, even when significant political differences are present. She then begins with us an exploration of possible generational differences she sees as relevant in understanding the divisions in our society.

#90, OTOH, Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock, Part 3, Dec 9, 2024

Tue, 28 Jan 2025 08:34:27 -0600

In this final, 3rd part of our interview with Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock, Glen and April learn more about Preston’s views regarding the importance of living and talking about a positive alternative to the negatives he sees in society. Using key points from author Parker Palmer, Preston talks about the need for more public spaces and opportunities for citizens in our society, even allowing that “more pubs” could be one part of that expansion of public opportunities. Continuing his emphasis on living Jesus’ Great Commandments, Preston provides advice that he also as consistent with Braver Angels’ approach to addressing political polarization, stating: "we can't speak the truth to people who we don't love" and "If we don't learn to love sinners, we'll find it hard to find anyone to love." Preston would most like to be remembered in a manner consistent with what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. advocated based on the parable of the Good Samaritan: not merely helping folks on the side of the road who are in need, but also tending to the road and what about that road led to so many roadside casualties. We conclude our interview with a personal story he tells about how a Black pastor he once spoke with changed his life and his world view in 45 seconds.

#89, OTOH, Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock, Part 2, Dec 9, 2024

Sun, 19 Jan 2025 15:18:45 -0600

In this second of three episodes, April and Glen talk further with Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock. Preston goes into some detail about his concerns with Christian nationalism and the negative impact associated with this view. He sees significant inconsistencies with what he feels the Cristian message calls us to do, and he describes several of those concerns. Preston explores the potential for negative impact of following that extreme and distorted version of Christianity on our culture and politics. In a broader way, he sees all of us as being constantly “catechized” or influenced in society through our culture. Such an environment makes it tough to change peoples' views solely through a couple of weekly visits to church. One key approach to countering that potentially negative or misguided influence is for each of us to focus on and practice “the good,” modeling a positive alternative to the negative elements in our society.

#88, OTOH, Preston Clegg, Pastor of 2nd Baptist in Little Rock, Part 1, Dec 9, 2024

Mon, 13 Jan 2025 15:52:22 -0600

In this first of 3 parts of our interview with Dr. Preston Clegg, pastor of the 2nd Baptist church in Little Rock, Glen and April explore with Preston his life experiences, values, and his active work in the community. Preston is an active advocate for racial justice and for loving treatment of all members of the community, especially those who are vulnerable. Because of the values that he sees as essential to the Christian faith, Preston describes his ministry as "to summon people to higher ground." Preston also explains how his congregation is not part of the more widely recognized Southern Baptist branch but rather is affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. Using the Christian great commandments as his inspiration, Preston traces how this requirement of radical love led to his current political views. An important observation for Preston is how too many in Christianity these days are becoming "entangled" rather than engaged in the world, which can cause difficulty in lovingly speaking out on political matters. As a result, he strongly advocates an appropriate separation of church and state and in speaking truth to those in power.

#87, OTOH, Joni Lee, Vice Chancellor for University Affairs & Chief Government Relations Officer, at UA Little Rock, Part 2, Dec 5, 2024

Thu, 26 Dec 2024 11:25:05 -0600

April and Glen continue their conversation with Joni Lee, Vice Chancellor for University Affairs & Chief Government Relations Officer for the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, in this second part of their interview with Joni. April and Glen hear how Joni emphasizes relationships in her work, though her efforts have recently become more difficult, as many in government have become more motivated by tribal or party considerations in their decision-making and sometimes seem less amenable to respectful and open discussions. The current difficulties of finding compromise on many issues are worsened by partisan or external threats, which may lead them to vote counter to their values or beliefs. In some ways, she sees political struggles as having moved from a win/lose to a life/death perception in their intensity. Nevertheless, working in a political arena requires respect for the influence of power. Joni describes her ways of coping and persevering in her efforts, which include her faith, a willingness to listen, and a commitment to civility and respect. Joni offers advice for avoiding polarizing behavior in interactions with others, as well as offering suggestions for how citizens can become involved in positive ways that make a contribution to society. Finally, Joni recounts her family’s joking about her frequent visits to “old stuff” when viewing historic sites in DC. Those visits, however, help her to maintain hope in the resilience of our American system, which has experienced many prior struggles, yet continues to survive.

#86, OTOH, Joni Lee, Vice Chancellor for University Affairs & Chief Government Relations Officer, at UA Little Rock, Part 1, Dec 5, 2024

Thu, 26 Dec 2024 11:23:37 -0600

In the first part of our conversation with Joni Lee, Vice Chancellor for University Affairs & Chief Government Relations Officer for the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, April and Glen hear from Joni how she came to work in advocacy for UA-Little Rock with local, state and federal government for so many years. Joni discusses some highlights in her work, including the university’s Nanotechnology Center's success in securing a key role in development of creating bone for medical uses. As Joni traces changes she has seen over the years in her advocacy work, she notes the apparent change in how many in government have come to devalue the importance of higher education. She notices with disappointment how much more distrustful many in government have come to view those in higher education, with funding suffering as a result. She also observes how in today’s climate, “diverse viewpoints have become divisive views.” In one example Joni cites, she describes works to explain the reality and benefits of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion initiatives (DEI) to those in government and politics, despite DEI having recently been met with much skepticism or hostility.

#85, OTOH, Ann Clemmer, former state legislator, professor at UA-LR, current lobbyist, Part 2, Nov 4 2024

Wed, 04 Dec 2024 15:38:55 -0600

In this second part of our conversation with Ann Clemmer, a former state legislator, former professor, and current lobbyist, April and Glen explore Ann's views on effective strategies for working with government officials for the public good in an environment where civility and collaboration are not a given. She argues that moderation and compromise still hold promise in this environment because "parties are ultimately pragmatic - they want to win." Ann discusses avenues for citizen involvement that can influence not just electoral outcomes, but also legislation. The conversation with Ann includes her thoughts on how we can bridge political divisions (even in our families) and concludes with an anecdotal story of a legislative colleague who, in his passion, broke with legislative norms and an unwritten code of civility toward her Republican caucus on the floor of the House.

#84, OTOH, Ann Clemmer, former state legislator, professor at UA-LR, lobbyist, Part 1, Nov 4 2024

Wed, 04 Dec 2024 15:36:03 -0600

Glen and April welcome Ann Clemmer, a former state legislator and former professor at UA-Little Rock, for a conversation. Ann is currently a lobbyist with Capitol Consulting Firm. In this first part of our chat, Ann shares her early exposure as a child to politics and its continuing influence on her career choices and life. In spite of coming of age and getting elected in one of the most solidly Democrat states in the nation at the time, Ann then and since has consistently embraced a more Republican worldview. Ann describes how, as a state representative, she tried to work across divisions but found that even with support from those in her party, legislation sometimes failed due to the opposition party’s reluctance to yield a win. She describes this period of her career and the challenges faced by the minority Republican caucus as it eked forward from 28 out of 100 to the barest of majorities possible, 51 out of 100 in 2013. She shares the frustrating realities that made this kind of work difficult and her perceptions of the current tensions within Arkansas Republican party groups. As an Arkansas lobbyist/consultant now, with a large Republican majority in the General Assembly, Ann discusses the job of influencing legislative outcomes where conflicting pressures are at play. She describes with pride one project she engaged with that resulted in successful infusion of much needed resources for an especially vulnerable group of children in the state.

#83, OTOH, Phillip Fletcher, ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder & CEO, Part 2, 10-17-24

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:03:44 -0600

In the second part of our interview with Dr. Phillip Fletcher, an ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder, April and Glen explore his political leanings, which can vary, as he finds some commonality with both Reds and Blues, depending on the issue. While he works readily with people all across the spectrum, there are points beyond which he will not collaborate, especially if they are incompatible with his "north star" of respecting the dignity and worth of every human. He also asserts that "human beings want to be better" and he tries to help them accomplish this through his active work in the community. Finally, he talks about how Arkansas somewhat surprisingly wound up being his home, despite his initial time in California and the culture shock he experienced the first time he encountered a specific Arkansas cultural touchstone.

#82, OTOH, Phillip Fletcher, ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder & CEO, Part 1, 10-17-24

Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:02:55 -0600

April and Glen speak with Dr. Phillip Fletcher, an ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder. As CEO of a nonprofit called The City of Hope Outreach, Phillip seeks to promote community development and "human flourishing" in education, housing, and nutrition, especially among the poor in central Arkansas. In this first of two parts, Phillip describes his values that led him to promote the "dignity and worth of every individual," especially with respect to education, nutrition, and housing. Phillip emphasizes the importance of finding contributions in everyone, including those persons that many would discount as either unable or unwilling to help themselves or others. He shares personal stories about how he has engaged the community in his efforts, despite many groups with differing goals or visions of how to help. Some key aspects he promotes in his work are doing the work necessary to understand the facts and beliefs important to those who may resist his efforts or views. Steeped in a philosophy of personalism, Phillip explains its origins and how it has been used in the activism of such leaders as Dr. Martin Luther King and others. Despite his strong religious beliefs, he acknowledges our society as a pluralistic culture and warns others not to let their faith lead them to become an extremist or zealot, nor to force others toward their viewpoint.

#81, OTOH, Patricia Matthews, Executive Director of the Interfaith Center of Arkansas, Part 2, 9-23-24

Thu, 17 Oct 2024 07:19:05 -0500

In the second part of our interview with Patricia Matthews, Executive Director of the Interfaith Center of Arkansas, April and Glen explore commonalities between interfaith approaches and those of Braver Angels' focus on political differences. Patricia then describes how she deals with issues such as the doubts of non-religious persons, potential conflicts between science and religion, and the impact on religion of extremists in the various faiths. Another element she sees as important in understanding the value of interfaith dialog came about from learning about a personal experience of a Muslim woman she worked with. This woman experienced a troubling encounter that revealed a hidden suspicion and stereotype held about her from someone she had encountered daily in her workplace for some time. In outlining some ideas for dealing with tensions that arise from differences of faith, Patricia reveals some of her personal approaches that help her maintain some peace of mind.

#80, OTOH, Patricia Matthews, Executive Director of the Interfaith Center of Arkansas, Part 1, 9-23-24

Thu, 17 Oct 2024 07:13:29 -0500

Glen & April talk with Patricia Matthews, an Episcopal priest and the new Executive Director of the Interfaith Center of Arkansas. In this first part of the interview, Patricia tells us about working with people of many different faiths, some of the challenges she encounters, and how they work through those obstacles. Patricia also shares with us a difficult moment she encountered earlier in her career when she was working with children of various faiths and was accused of doing the devil's work because of her respect for the actions of the kids she was working with when they engaged in rituals of their own faith. Her response to this challenge reflected what she sees as a key element in all faiths: love of God, self, and others. She notes the similarities between interfaith work and the efforts by Braver Angels to help others reach across political divides. Many approaches by both groups are similar, having a common foundation, including values much like the Golden Rule. One such instance she describes is how persons from various faiths struggled with dealing with the current issue of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. Her response mirrors the approaches we discuss in both interfaith and Braver Angels work.

#79 OTOH, John O'Brien, producer of On the Other Hand & former Human Resources and public education professional, Part 2, 7 22 24

Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:44:05 -0500

In the second part of our interview with our producer of this podcast, Glen and April explore with John O'Brien his work in the Texas public school system and his successful revamping of a curriculum for his seniors in high school language arts classes. Despite going against tradition and some of the state's requirements, John developed an entirely new and more practical exploration of literature that included many important life lessons for his students. His bold departure from tradition became popular with students and eventually was endorsed by other educators and administrators. John also describes how those working in education sometimes have their competence lead to ultimately difficult outcomes for them and the system. He offers suggestions for how the current direction in public education might be improved. John also offers a humorous story from his time working with a boss and a secretary, in which the interactions reached a crisis point, with a surprising conclusion.

#78 OTOH, John O'Brien, producer of On the Other Hand & former Human Resources and public education professional, part 1, 7 22 24

Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:41:52 -0500

April and Glen welcome to the microphone someone who is usually handling our podcasts from the technical side: John O’Brien, who serves as producer and editor for On The Other Hand. John combines 33 years as a senior corporate human resources and training executive with thirteen years in public education. He also has decades of experience with technical aspects of video and audio editing. During his retirement, John has been active with community volunteering work as a member and an officer with Rotary International, Kiwanis International, Optimist International, Literacy Council, The United Way, Junior Achievement, and AmeriCorps. In this first episode, John briefly reviews his early adult life and influences, along with the development over time of his political leanings. Next, he takes us through significant moments in his experience handling even worldwide audio/visual broadcasts. John then provides insight into the world of corporate management and managerial/employee relationships. Based on his long experience, John offers key analyses on the dynamics at work in the private sector from the perspective of a Human Resources manager and the balancing act required in serving both sides and ultimately, the stakeholders and legal foundations of the business. Drawing parallels between his experience and the interest in Braver Angels of encouraging respectful negotiation of political differences, John also points out the differences and difficulties in the management/employee dynamics.

#77 OTOH Kent Myers, Braver Angels Arkansas leader, former city manager and consultant, part 2, 7 19 24

Thu, 05 Sep 2024 18:09:58 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with former Hot Springs, AR city manager Dr. Kent Myers, April and Glen learn how he came to join Braver Angels Arkansas. His concern over the increasing incivility in our country and its many negative implications for citizens and government officials led him to find ways to help cope with those problems so prevalent in our society today. He suggests ways to improve the work of Braver Angels in Arkansas as it seeks to reduce polarization. Among his suggestions, Kent talks about the importance of life-long learning that he sees as a common element in leadership in Braver Angels. Going into his ideas of how we can all improve our work together, he talks about the "C's" that he sees as critical. Those key factors include collaboration, compromise, compassion, civility, and communication. Kent also explains key elements of two leadership approaches: Servant Leadership & Authentic Leadership. An optimist by nature, he talks of his hope for improvements in our political behavior in the future. Kent concludes the conversation with two touching stories of experiences in his own life and how it taught him to not wait to show love and concern for those you care about.

#76 OTOH Kent Myers, Braver Angels Arkansas leader, former city manager and consultant, part 1, 7 19 24

Thu, 05 Sep 2024 18:09:41 -0500

Glen and April talk with Dr. Kent Myers, one of the newer leaders in Braver Angels Arkansas. With a background of serving as a city manager in several cities over his career, along with his doctorate in leadership studies, Kent brings considerable expertise to his work with Braver Angels. In this first part of our conversation, Kent provides a brief bio of his career, then discusses the ways he has approached his role as city manager in several communities around the country, including Hot Springs, AR for 14 years. He briefly outlines the differences between mayoral and the city manager form of government, including specifics about the hybrid model that is used in Little Rock. Outlining some of the critical aspects of sound leadership, Kent talks about the importance of collaboration in working in any leader role. He also mentions recent new concerns among government officials that the polarized environment has exposed civic leaders to new concerns, including verbal or other attacks due to perceived political differences. He explains how the COVID pandemic impacted the increased hostility and how he learned to deal with these new challenges through forgiveness and transparency in his work.

# 75, John Davis, author and director of Pryor center for oral history, 6-19-24, part 2, OTOH

Tue, 13 Aug 2024 05:47:28 -0500

In this second part of our interview with Dr. John Davis, April and Glen delve into details from John's new book, “From Blue to Red: The Rise of the GOP in Arkansas.” In his book, John identifies 3 generations of the modern Republican Party in Arkansas, featuring highlights of Republican politicians from each generation. For example, the desire for political diversity by William Rockefeller helped inspire his entrance into the Republican Party. The 3rd and current generation of Republicans he sees as not yet knowing what it's like to lose. John also mentions Asa Hutchinson's current status in the Republican Party and from there talks about how to get back to bipartisanship in Arkansas. He also recounts an interesting story about Dr. Janine Parry, who is Founding Director of the Arkansas Poll and an expert in Arkansas Politics.

#74, John Davis, author and director of Pryor center for oral history, 6-19-24, part 1

Tue, 13 Aug 2024 05:47:08 -0500

Glen and April spoke with Dr. John C. Davis, a political scientist, researcher, and public servant and currently the executive director of the David & Barbara Pryor Center for Arkansas Oral and Visual History. In this first part of our interview, John discusses his work with the Pryor Center's Arkansas Oral History project, which features stories by and about Arkansans and Arkansas traditions. He traces some of the early influences of his family and values that led him to his life's work and views. Other details about his multi-faceted work are explored, including the influence on John of Bill Clinton's impeachment story, and his interest in working across political divides.

#73, Asa Hutchinson, former Arkansas governor and congressman, 7 10 2024

Tue, 23 Jul 2024 20:54:14 -0500

Glen and April had the chance to chat with Asa Hutchinson, an attorney and the previous 2-term Republican governor of Arkansas. Asa has a long history of public service, including serving as a US Congressman, one of the House managers for Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial in the Senate, head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, and chair of the National Governors Association. In the interview, Asa tells us about his current work, which includes working with a security firm, being a conservative teaching at a largely liberal major university, and his other new endeavors. We find out what he views as highlights of his career, including a successful, non-violent arrest and prosecution of a domestic terrorist group in Arkansas. His approach as governor is discussed, including how he handled the COVID pandemic by getting a variety of experts and weighing various views to help him find a way to manage Arkansas's approach to COVID that adhered to his conservative philosophy. While he outlines his strong conservative credentials, he also expresses concerns about several recent developments nationally, including issues he highlighted during his recent unsuccessful run for nominee of the Republican Party as President. We also hear his criticisms of how he sees his party as having moved away from traditional conservative values. He highlights his conviction that civility and compromise remain critical for the success of our government and explains how he remains hopeful that things will get better in the future, despite his several worries about what the immediate future may hold for us. He finishes with a story of an Iowa farmer's interesting reaction to him during a campaign related conversation.

#72, Jay McDaniel, author & theologian, 5 29 24, Part 2

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 08:12:44 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Jay McDaniel, April and Glen talk with Jay about his view of how a "virtuous life" was important to our nation's founders and is important in our current community, including those not just like ourselves. Jay explains the concept of process theology, and he suggests that a healthy religious life should have both "roots" and "wings." We also find out what gives him hope and helps him reach across divides, which includes beauty and the Bee Gees. We explore Jay's work in China to explore spirituality in that culture, and we hear about the importance of "moral humility" in reaching across divisions.

#71, Jay McDaniel, theologian, author & philosopher, 5 29 24, part 1

Thu, 18 Jul 2024 08:11:25 -0500

April and Glen chat with Dr. Jay McDaniel, a theologian, author & philosopher who specializes in Buddhism, process theology, interfaith dialogue, and spirituality in an age of consumerism. Jay has published many books and articles, and he has a blog called "Open Horizons" [www.openhorizons.org], which he previously titled "Jesus, Jazz, and Buddhism." Our conversation with Jay includes his perspective of politics having taken on many of the roles typically associated with religion, and how he seeks to "find shared Joys" as a means of reaching across differences with others. We also explore Jay's work with interfaith dialog, and how, as a Christian, he values Buddhist philosophy in his spiritual journey.

#70 Jay Barth, director of Clinton Presidential Library, 5-24-24, part 2

Thu, 27 Jun 2024 11:27:51 -0500

In part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Jay Barth, we cover a number of ideas, including the problems associated with an emphasis on "identity issues," the value in Arkansas of our ability to engage in "direct democracy" via citizen initiatives, and the Clinton Center's involvement (Braver Angels Arkansas is also a partner) in the Rockefeller Institute's "Civic Arkansas" project to improve citizen engagement in Arkansas. As a gay man, Jay understands and emphasizes the moral importance of people increasing their respect across various lines of identity in order to improve relationships and decrease conflict. Finally, Jay talks about two Arkansas politicians for whom he has great respect - Asa Hutchinson and David Pryor - due in part because of their pragmatic approach to dealing with differences and the examples they offer of respect across the political aisle.

#69 Jay Barth, director of Clinton Presidential Library, 5-24-24, part 1

Thu, 27 Jun 2024 11:26:59 -0500

Glen and April talk with Dr. Jay Barth, a native of Arkansas, who is the Emeritus Professor of Politics at Hendrix College, where he taught for 26 years. Jay currently serves as Director of the Clinton Presidential Library, and he has earned numerous awards for his work in education and politics over the years. In this first part of our conversation with Jay, he provides a brief biographical outline of his early life, born into a largely progressive family from which he developed many of his values. Jay also explains the three entities that make up the Clinton Presidential Center, with an emphasis on being non-partisan in its functions and outreach. While emphasizing the strong need for Americans to reach across political and other differences, he acknowledges the "Grand Canyon" divide our country presently is experiencing. To deal with this division, he speaks of values such as egalitarianism and resilience in helping us to continue our growth despite the obstacles.

#68 Mike Starr, author and life coach, 4-12-24, part 2

Fri, 14 Jun 2024 13:14:03 -0500

In the second part of our interview with author and life coach Mike Starr, April and Glen hear several of his specific concepts about how important it is to use language carefully in managing one's life and relationships. Some words he considers dangerous or tyrannical and he offers alternative words and phrases that he suggests can improve how one approaches problems in one's life. Rather than address politics directly, he prefers to focus on relationships. Interestingly, he advocates shaming in some cases, given his concerns about current trends of what he sees as decreased personal responsibility and increased blaming of external factors among many people. He ends with a personal story about how he and his canoe partner managed difficulties in their relationship during the long float from Pittsburgh to New Orleans.

#67 Mike Starr, author and life coach, 4-12-24, part 1

Fri, 14 Jun 2024 13:09:57 -0500

Mike Starr, life coach and author, speaks with April and Glen in this first part of our interview with him about his new book entitled, “Journey into Peace: A language for peace, progress, and healing,” in which he advocates that the everyday language we use causes much of the tension and suffering we have in our relationships. An entrepreneur who has managed a successful $100 million dollar a year manufacturing business, Mike is also a former nuclear submarine officer. He has also climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro and has canoed from Pittsburgh to New Orleans. He now lives in Arkansas. His upbringing in a family who experienced first-hand the effects of the holocaust helped inform his values and approach to life. In his conversation with us, Mike emphasizes the importance of respect and empathy in dealing with others, including as a means to limit negative reactions to problematic behavior on the part of others. He shares some of his key thoughts from his book about how to have a better life and relationships.

#66 Janet Harris, CEO of the Rockefeller Institute in Arkansas, 4-2-24, part 2: OTOH Episode 66

Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:06:49 -0500

In part two, April and Glen gain ideas from Janet Harris, Executive Director & CEO of the Rockefeller Institute on Petit Jean Mountain, for helping various groups of Arkansans facing difficult differences to join together in finding common ground for problem-solving. Other topics covered include the importance of relationships in improving working relationships during this process, which prompted this quote from Janet: "the beauty of humanity is in that wrestling...". We review some of the initial efforts now underway with the institute and other groups (including our Braver Angels alliance) in helping promote civic engagement, which some data suggests is a particular problem in Arkansas. Other topics include addressing misinformation in our current media environment, Governor Rockefeller's initial motivation for running for office as a Republican (it's not what you might think), and a general description of how groups coming to the mountain for this process come to "wrestle with complexity" and how out of that process, she finds hope. Finally, Janet shares a remarkable story that started with her witnessing an aerial combat between two bald eagles while driving to work on top of Petit Jean mountain. The story serves as a fitting metaphor for the work of the Rockefeller Institute.

#65 Janet Harris, CEO of Rockefeller Institute in Arkansas, 4-2-24, Part 1: OTOH Episode 65

Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:06:05 -0500

In this first part of our conversation with Janet Harris, Executive Director & CEO of the Rockefeller Institute on Petit Jean Mountain, Glen and April learn about the Rockefeller Institute, which is guided by former Governor Winthrop Rockefeller's belief that “...valuing diversity of opinion, practicing collaborative problem solving, and engaging in respectful dialogue combine to create transformational change.” As we explore the Institute's mission and Janet's role, she shares stories from her early life, including how playing high school and college basketball taught her many lessons in leadership. The many retreats held at the institute seek to help various groups of Arkansans who encounter "wicked problems" which have no clear way of solving them without compromise by the various stakeholders. Ground rules that help facilitate that outcome are presented, and she describes some specific groups and issues in Arkansas where positive outcomes have been achieved through this process. Janet encourages people of all sorts around the state to consider using the institute's facilities and staff when there is a need to solve a "wicked problem" with significant impediments to finding common ground and acceptable compromises. The natural setting on top of Petit Jean Mountain, the beautiful and comfortable facilities, and having meals and down time together help to move participants toward a better working relationship.

#64 Breanne Davis, AR state Senator & sponsor of 2023 LEARNS act, Part 2, Feb 20 2024; OTOH Episode 64

Fri, 22 Mar 2024 15:25:45 -0500

In this second part of our conversation with Breanne Davis, Republican Arkansas state senator from Russellville & sponsor of the LEARNS act in 2023, Breanne goes into some detail about the LEARNS law and how she views some resistance as due to misinformation about what it does. Acknowledging some genuine differences of view on this law, she describes how she feels it has important contributions to education in Arkansas. Other laws she sponsored and that were passed are reviewed, including helping ensure non-discriminatory access to healthcare for persons with Down syndrome. Asked to explain the extent to which she views 2nd amendment gun rights as having legitimate areas for regulation, she talks about some areas that are currently not well enforced, and she talks about proposed regulations such as Red Flag laws that she finds troubling. She concludes by talking about the importance of connection with other people in working on political issues, as well as need for reducing social media's negative, distorting influences. Civic engagement to her is served if we have "more community heroes and fewer keyboard warriors."

#63 Breanne Davis, AR state Senator & sponsor of 2023 LEARNS act, Part 1, Feb 20 2024; OTOH Episode 63

Fri, 22 Mar 2024 15:15:30 -0500

Breanne Davis, Republican Arkansas state senator from Russellville & sponsor of LEARNS act in 2023, sits down to talk with Glen & April in this first part of our conversation. Breanne's background growing up with a family that was active in their community and a longstanding interest in working with others motivated her to get involved, eventually running for and being elected as state Senator. She is a co-chair of the "Arkansas Futures Caucus," a bipartisan group of younger legislators who work together to get things done. Despite the history of partisan differences and tensions, she suggests that many in the legislature work together and get things done, but this seldom is covered adequately in the media. Breanne believes it is important to "fight less" both within and across parties, and this helps motivate her involvement in this caucus. She describes how caucus members work together, though there is disagreement in several areas, and how important she finds it to engage with others in person, rather than via social media. One distressing and puzzling part of her experience is what she calls "100 Percenters," those persons in her party who complain or respond with hostile language if she says or votes in any manner that doesn't fit entirely with their view of how things should be. This "perfectionism" often comes from people in her own party and who know her personally. While she believes strongly in compromise to get things done, she outlines some areas where her core beliefs do not lend her to compromising.

#62 Blake Perkins, ASU-Beebe history professor, Part 2, 2-2-24:OTOH Episode 62

Fri, 08 Mar 2024 13:20:14 -0600

In this second part of our interview with Dr. Blake Perkins, ASU-Beebe professor of history, we further explore his insights into the culture and politics of rural Arkansans in the Ozark region, who he terms "Ozarkers." In this episode, he provides additional detail into the reality, as opposed to stereotypes, of Ozarkers' frequently described distrust of outsiders. He includes lessons from history and his studies that suggest ways to reduce misunderstandings of people such as rural Arkansans, and he outlines some of the understandable and rational basis for some of their views. He also offers one model of how to use debate exercises in the classroom about historical events as a means of helping students to better appreciate diversity of views and ideologies, while promoting critical thinking about an issue. Current suspicion in some quarters about the value of higher education is also discussed. Dr. Perkins concludes with a humorous story of how another professor's energetic engagement with his class ended up revealing more of the professor than he likely wanted.

#61 Blake Perkins, ASU Beebe history professor, Part 1, 2-2-24:OTOH Episode 61

Fri, 08 Mar 2024 13:16:40 -0600

Dr. Blake Perkins, History professor at ASU-Beebe, talks with Glen and April about his research on the history of "Ozarkers" or rural folk in the Arkansas mountains over the last couple of centuries. He specifically addresses aspects of how these Arkansans have tended to view "outsiders," whether those from state or federal government, from more urban areas, or persons with money and influence. Given the importance of such divisions in understanding polarization in our current society, we felt it helpful to hear his insights, which not only are academic in nature, but also arise in part from his early life being born and raised in rural Arkansas. Blake talks in some detail about both the realities of this culture as well as some myths or stereotypes that don't always correspond to reality. He cites examples of "outsiders" who thrived in the Ozark culture, for example. We also delve into current controversies regarding potential changes in the status of the Buffalo River's national park designation, as well as the recent LEARNS law and its changes that pose some concerns to rural Ozarkers.

#60 Wendall Griffen, pastor, ex judge and social justice activist, Jan 30 2024, Part 2: OTOH Episode 60

Fri, 09 Feb 2024 15:26:29 -0600

In this second part of our talk with former judge and social justice activist Wendell Griffen, we hear his defense of the importance for civility in discourse and the willingness to engage with those on the other side. He points to how the games we played - and their rules that we followed as children - continues to be a critical model for us to follow as adults. He sees the need for similar attention to laws and civil behavior in our political discourse. Wendell also tells us about his experiences during a recent public forum on the Middle East conflict and how he and the other panelists, with strongly differing views, were able to follow guidelines and thus have a respectful and productive exchange of perspectives on this highly divisive topic. He offers reason for hope for our future in young people, who he sees as wanting civil discourse and as being willing to get involved in their community. Finally, he offers his thoughts on how each of us can make a difference in our community.