In this heartfelt conversation, two seasoned educators, Mike Wiley, Principal of California Trail Middle School of Olathe Public Schools (USD 233) and Dr. Mark Schmidt, Assistant Superintendent of Special Education in the Blue Valley School District (USD 229), both retiring at the end of the 2025-26 school year, share insights on their careers, leadership, and the evolving landscape of education. They reflect on impactful moments, mentorship, and the importance of resilience, listening, and purpose in shaping future educators.

Connect with the guests:

Mike Wiley

Dr. Mark Schmidt

Other Cool Coffee Episodes Featuring Principal Mike Wiley

• CC#9: “See you at the Crosswalk” https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-gx8ec-16eadbd
• CC#25: “Father’s Club” https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-572p4-1728fd6
• CC#30: “The Interview Episode” https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ddt7a-1789436
• CC#86: “Responding to Parents” https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-xpfxa-198a4fe

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Contact Cool Coffee host, Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

Provide Cool Coffee feedback! Click HERE to share thoughts and suggestions--including guests to have on the show!

Click for ALL Cool Coffee episodes!

Connect with Cool Coffee on...

Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee

Facebook: KSPrincipals

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Retirement Reflections 02:52 Navigating the Transition to Retirement 05:28 Mentorship and Leadership Development 08:00 Reflections on Career Experiences 10:36 Changes in Education and Student Dynamics 13:14 Post-COVID Educational Landscape 15:52 The Importance of Listening in Leadership 24:20 The Evolving Role of Principals 25:22 Impacting Students' Lives 26:57 Transitioning to Retirement 34:48 Advice for Aspiring Principals 39:00 The Power of Mentorship

Connect with the guest: martin.mike74@gmail.com

Books by Michael Martin:

• Blending Instruction with Technology
• AI Powered Leadership: 50 Prompts to Transform Your School Today

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Contact Cool Coffee host, Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

Provide Cool Coffee feedback! Click HERE to share thoughts and suggestions--including guests to have on the show!

Click for ALL Cool Coffee episodes!

Connect with Cool Coffee on...

Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee

Facebook: KSPrincipals

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Rick Sola (00:02.824) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas Principals. My guest today is Dr. Michael Martin, a sitting high school principal at Buckeye Central High School in Ohio, also the 2024 OASSA principal of the year. He's an author and what he calls an operational realist. While tech futurists talk about what AI might do in 10 years, Dr. Martin helps overwhelmed leaders figure out how to use it safely by next Tuesday.

As the creator of the ART leadership model, he shows organizations how to escape administrative drudgery and win back time for intentional human connection. He is the author of Blending Instruction with Technology, and he's here to help us turn AI anxiety into a competitive advantage. Michael, welcome to Cool Coffee.

Mike (00:53.035) Hey, welcome Rick. Thanks for the invite. I appreciate it.

Rick Sola (00:56.702) Yeah, I am super excited to have you on. And as we connected about this podcast and this topic, AI, I literally this morning was in a district meeting where AI was a topic. And there are so many different, I guess, thoughts about AI. And you, I think, it very well, kind of talking about the good, the bad, the ugly, or maybe the helpful as well.

So I'm really excited to get into AI here with you. So I would love to just start with AI, you, where did this connection, I mean, this is a new technology, when did you get connected with AI?

Mike (01:44.076) Yeah, that's a fair question. I've I've always been really interested in technology, the integration of technology, how to utilize it in schools, how to use it in classrooms to better what we do. When blended learning was a big deal back 10, 15 years ago, I did a lot of research on that. That's actually where I wrote my first book, Blended Instruction with Technology.

And it's really when I started, know, to kind of do some speaking and touring and speaking and just kind of laying out how to utilize technology in the classroom. And ever since then, I've always been kind of trying to my best to, you know, to perfect, I shouldn't say perfect, but to use the science of teaching and the art of teaching and integrating that with the technology that we have at our disposal. And so obviously AI is a big deal now, but.

I was on the AI bandwagon pre-COVID. I was reading about AI, I was thinking about AI. I'm like, this is coming down the road, right? I was reading about it then. I didn't know what I know now, obviously. But I was thinking about it, I was looking in the future regarding that. And when we came out of COVID, I took an MIT class and I built my own AI just to get a fundamental understanding of how it all works. So I've always had this appreciation for technology. I've always had this...

Rick Sola (02:45.478) Okay.

Mike (03:11.912) I don't know this need to be on the edge on the cutting edge of what we're doing. I just, it's just a lot of fun for me. So I've always been, you know, trying to look to the future to see how things are being used. And of course, you know, we're smack dab in the middle of AI right now. And I'm hoping that the Buckeye Center, what we're doing here is just a little bit, you know, ahead of the curve compared to other schools, just because of, you know, my interest in the

and the topic of technology. And I'm gonna add this real quick, Rick. I don't think it's just me that has this interest in technology and how it's being utilized, not only in schools but in the workforce. I mean, we can go back to the 1930s, right? And I can show you articles, I can pull up speeches by presidents that advocate for the use of technology and how it's gonna change the American life, right? How it's gonna change our work week. mean, the next...

There were presidents who promised that with the advent of technology by the 1960s, we will cut our work week in half. Well, that hasn't happened. Actually, I think it's doubled. I think it's doubled, right? But so I think there's always been this fascination. There's always this urge, this want to utilize technology to help us live better lives, to help us do what we do better, right? And so it's just been a lot of fun for me.

Rick Sola (04:15.252) No, that's not.

Rick Sola (04:32.915) Yeah.

Well, it's interesting. I'm familiar with AI. I use it every now and again. I am very much surface level as far as I use it to research vehicles or things like that. know, very surface level. But you mentioned pre-COVID AI and that you were involved in. this is my ignorance. didn't even...

really, as I think of AI, I think of a technology, at least that's been widely available to the public over the last two to three years really coming onto the scene. What did AI look like pre-COVID and then this many years, six, seven years later, that's almost, I mean, that's almost a lifetime for technology ramp up. So.

Mike (05:19.15) It is a lifetime, yeah. The terminology back then was machine learning. Remember the machine learning, which is in essence the birth of AI.

Rick Sola (05:23.994) Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Rick Sola (05:30.546) Yeah, okay. Well, you know, and I remember it all started with, you know, predictive, your Netflix queue and what, you know, some of that sort of thing or Amazon. So,

Mike (05:36.802) Yes, it was, yes. Amazon also knows what you want to purchase, right? Netflix knows what you want to watch. Predictive analysis.

Rick Sola (05:44.648) Well, you said you took a course at MIT about how it all works. And for those who might be listening who are maybe very primitive with their knowledge of AI, or they've maybe purposefully stayed away from it, how would you, in a nutshell, just describe, OK, how does it all work for those who are new to the game?

Mike (06:05.664) It is an imperfect but getting a lot more accurate predictive machine, as you mentioned. That's what it is. It runs numbers and it predicts based on the algorithms. What's really fascinating is everything is a number. For example, when I was building the first AI that I built through this course with MIT,

I was using Google, of course, and Google's tools. Well, one of the ones that we built was, I should say, I built was we, I took pictures, I don't know, using the software through Google, a thousand pictures of a basketball. I took a thousand or so pictures of a football and took a thousand or so pictures of a soccer ball, right? And then I would categorize those pictures by

what ball they were, what sport they were. And what would happen then is the machine would take every little single pixel, right? Every single pixel of that picture is a number, right? And it formed patterns out of all those numbers of all those pictures. And it knew that this pattern of numbers represented a basketball. This pattern of numbers represented a soccer ball. This pattern of numbers, right?

represented a football. I knew that, right? Because it was just a pattern of numbers. And then based on the new pattern numbers I would give it, it would try to predict what that was. So for example, like I, again, I threw a thousand pictures of a basketball on there. After I set it all up, I would take a picture of a basketball.

I had an AI take a picture of the basketball and it would tell me what it was. It would accurately say this is the basketball, this is a football, this is a soccer ball. And I know that's very simplistic, but that really is the basis of what AI is, right? It's just using numbers and patterns, right? To recognize, it's just using numbers to recognize patterns, right? It's using numbers to recognize patterns and it's using patterns to predict other patterns.

Rick Sola (08:25.524) Okay, so it's predictive because it recognizes a pattern of numbers and you throw out another picture of a basketball, it figures out, this is a close match to what we've, you what's been programmed. So that's kind of what's been programmed. Of course, we can go down a total rabbit hole because I'm totally intrigued at the learning machine and how it starts to, I don't know if making decisions is the right word, but you know,

Mike (08:36.127) Yeah. Yeah.

Rick Sola (08:51.922) The good, the bad, the ugly, I would maybe even add the scary. There's some things in there that start to get brought up. OK, no, so that's a really good kind of baseline for how it works. And you've done a lot of talk talks on how it works and how it looks in your school. And we haven't talked really about this before, but it sounds like you have you have embraced it. And so at your school, it's it's very intentional about.

Mike (08:56.074) Good.

Rick Sola (09:21.012) teaching kids how to use it, your staff, yourself as a principal. What does that look like?

Mike (09:27.007) You know, first of all, the reason I'm really intentional about using AI in our school is without government oversight, the genie's on the bottle and we're not putting it back in, right? The good, as you said, the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? Without some sort of government overreach, AI is not going away. people are using it more and more every single day.

When I step back and I look at the students that walk our hallways and I start thinking about how I'm preparing them for the workforce right now, but how am I also gonna prepare them for the workforce in 10 years? I'll go hang out in our preschool. And I started thinking that 13 years, those kids are gonna be seniors. And in 17 years, they're gonna be graduating college. What's the world gonna look like when they've been working for 10 years, which is 27 years down the road?

So I think about that a lot. And again, AI is not gonna go away. So I've come to the realization that there is an equity gap when it comes to artificial intelligence. And it's not necessarily who has access to AI, because every single kid has a phone these days. So every single kid has access to AI. What I think the equity gap is, which kids are taught to utilize the AI?

right, as a thinking tool. Like I hear the phrase thinking partner a lot. I use the phrase thinking tool, right? A partner sounds more human to me, right? I mean, I love my wife, she's my life partner. You know, she's not a tool, right? And so I call it a thinking tool. So who teaches their kids to utilize AI as a thinking tool, right? Not to think for them, not to replace their thinking, not to take away the struggle of the thinking.

but as a tool to enhance their thinking, as an add-on to their thinking, as a way to think more and learn more and critically evaluate on another level, right? If you can do those things.

Mike (11:36.426) in the world four to seven to 10 years from now, I think you're gonna be a better spot than those students where schools are not talking about it, schools are not using it. And those kids are just using it all willy nilly. They're not utilizing it with any forethought, without any reasoning, right? They're not using it to the extent that our kids are using it, right? And that's a competitive advantage for us, right? That's the equity gap.

Rick Sola (11:59.422) First.

I really, you the perspective you brought up about talking about your preschoolers and when they graduate and then when they're in the workforce, 10 years and that's 27 years down the road. That's a real perspective kind of, you know, we tend to think of graduation and what does that upon exiting college job look like, which for some of our students in the system are maybe within five years. And we just mentioned, you know, technology changes so, so quickly.

What you were just describing really segues very nicely into it. I've read that you've talked about this before and perhaps probably in your book, the 80-20-2080 rule. And I mentioned before we went recording here is just reading just the brief little bit I did. That really kind of, it just kind of clicked, it resonated, but explain that 80-20-2080, the rule.

Mike (12:38.227) Yeah.

Mike (12:53.801) Yeah, so the 80-20-20-80 rule really is the fundamental part of it is the first part, the 80-20. So I get the opportunity to travel and talk and speak about artificial intelligence and its uses in not just the classroom, but as a principle in the building, whatever it may be. And the presentation that I use, it took me six months to build, right? It took me six months.

I would read, I would read, I would read and I would write. I would read and I would write. I would read and I would write. And so I wrote this outline. It took me six months to write this outline. And then I would, when I got to the point where I was feeling pretty good about where it was and how it felt, I felt really good that it was pretty comprehensive. I uploaded it to AI and I asked it, so listen, if this is the outline that I...

I gave it the appropriate prompt, had all five parts to it or seven parts, whatever it is you believe makes up a good prompt. So I wrote the appropriate prompt, but ultimately asking it to critically evaluate this outline that I have of this presentation. I asked it to then provide me with a list of errors. I asked it then to provide me with a list of best practices I might be missing.

This is the critical part, right? I tell it, don't just write it for me. Don't just put it in the outline. Give me links. Give me live links and resources so I can go read about those best practices I'm unaware of, right? So then that's what I did. It gave me a list of stuff. I spent, I don't know how much time going out and reading all that, thinking about all that. Some of it made sense to me and I utilized it.

Some of it did make sense to me and I didn't utilize it. And so when I got done with that outline, 80 % of that outline was my original beginning draft, my original beginning thoughts, which I struggled with, which I did the reading, the heavy lifting and the messiness of the struggle of learning. I did all that. The additional 20 % was artificial intelligence being a a thinking tool for me.

Mike (15:18.983) which expanded my world, expanded my knowledge base, I went out, learned more, added more, and then put that into my outline. So 80 % of the outline was my original, 20 % was the enhancement because of AI. That 20 % I never would have had, had it not been for the tool. Never would have had it. The 2080 then comes in, the 2080 then comes in, I turned that then into the presentation, right? So I uploaded that into, and you can choose whatever.

AI presentation software you want to choose, but I uploaded it in there, right? And it spent, I don't know, about three minutes creating an amazing presentation for me, right? And I went through that presentation, I looked at it, it created the product for me. I went through that product, I evaluated it, I critiqued it, but then I went and added some parts I thought was missing, the human parts to it as well, right? Some things in there that I thought was,

innately, naturally me that I would want to see or hear myself give in a speech, in a presentation. I added that to it. So the product was 80 % generated by that artificial intelligence based on my outline, and then the additional 20 % of me going in and being the human in the loop. So that's the 80-20-20-80 rule. Does that make sense?

Rick Sola (16:39.654) It makes total sense. what I love about that is it, you know, if you had, you know, where you're at, I don't know how many assistant principals you have there, but zero. Okay. Okay. Or you have your, you have your office staff and you have some others, but if you pulled them in and you ask them to do basically what you typed in as a prompt, but like, Hey, I need some feedback. This is specifically, that's what collaboration is. And so you're kind of simulating collaboration with

Maybe not a thought partner, as you say, but it's a tool. You're using a tool there. And so taking 80 % and just enhancing that to create what it is you're ultimately trying to achieve. There's people all over the country that spend hours in rooms full of people brainstorming different things. You're just brainstorming with the platform that you're on.

Mike (17:31.927) That's what I'm doing, right? I really do get an opportunity to brainstorm with maybe some of the smartest minds in the industry, right? I do, right? Which I would never have the chance to do had it not been for the technology. But I think it's critical that we also address that the first 80 % of that thing was me, right? Because that's the true learning. When we start thinking about our kids,

Rick Sola (17:42.685) Right, yeah.

Rick Sola (17:48.372) So how do you, go ahead, go ahead.

Mike (18:01.275) And this whole idea of cognitive offloading or what I call a cognitive atrophy, you know, that struggle, that messy struggle of learning, right, where the synapses in your neurons are firing and they're connecting, you know, that beautiful messiness, that beautiful struggle, right, that's the heart of learning. And I hate when schools allow or organizations allow or families allow AI to replace that.

Rick Sola (18:29.62) How do you create a, I guess, a culture and understanding, expectations even, building that into your school, into the classrooms amongst your teachers? Because 80, 20, how tempting for students is it to, let's go 70, 30, blah, blah, blah, you know, and they start sliding that over. Can we slide that over?

Mike (18:47.069) I know, I know. And that's a great question. It's not hard to sell it to my staff, because I think every teacher in America is scared of this thing cheating for them. Cheating for the students, I think all teachers are scared of that. So it's not a hard sell to the staff. But I'm one of those leaders where I literally meet and I talk with our kids, right? It's just me and them.

and I address them at the beginning of every school year. What I think is a rather inspirational talk, whether they think that or not, I don't know, but I leave rather inspired. And we do these last two years, we've talked about AI and I talk about them and where I want them to be in 10 years, where I want them to be in 15 years. And I show them, you know, the impacts of cognitive atrophy or cognitive awful and whatever you want to call it.

Right? And then I show them, you know, again, what I call the messiness of the struggle, the beautiful struggle, right? And the benefits of that. And then we equate it to lifting in sports. I equate it to exercising in sports. I equate it to all of that. Right? So I get them to, I'm trying to get them to understand that the brain is a muscle. you don't want it to atrophy. It truly is, I think, the great differentiator as we move forward in future. Because if you look at AI,

products or AI outputs, you do find a lot of similar words, a lot of similar phrases. You find a lot of similarities, right? You really do. And I do. I get afraid of our voices becoming too similar. And the way to keep yourself more authentic, the way to keep yourself not being similar to everybody else is to use your own.

brain, is to use your own thoughts, is to develop your own voice. And I do, I talked to our kids about the importance of developing their own voice and their own thoughts. you know, does that solve all the problems? No, but it certainly helps to mitigate that, right? And that's just how we start. And then after that, we start talking about in our classrooms, when we're using AI, for example, we're adopting magic school for next year. And why are we magic school for next year? Because you can see the conversation between

Mike (21:05.844) the teacher, I mean, I'm sorry, between the student and the AI. You can see that process. You can see the thought process, the communication, the collaboration, as you will call it, right? You can see all of that. So then that becomes my next conversation with our staff members is, if we wanna make sure that we're sticking to this 80-20 rule, and that's not a hard, fast number, it's just the number I use. If we wanna stick though to the majority of the thinking being our kids, then we have to...

to see the process of the conversation. We have to see that the prompt, the response to the prompt, and then our response to that output, right? We have to see how kids are interacting with the AI, and we have to be able to see all of that. And that's really for us the best judgment of whether or not kids are maintaining that 80-20, 70-30 balance we talked about. Does that make sense?

Rick Sola (21:58.132) Yeah, it does and you mentioned that the prompt and you said earlier, you know the five or seven points of a good prompt and I'm thinking I don't I don't know I don't know those prompts and so that's something that you know, I've kind of learned by failing or you know, I go you kind of tweak it but How does a person know? mean, I guess in a school you can be intentional but about teaching it you've had a lot of real kind of you know Personal experience, I guess with with that you've also had a class

Mike (22:07.156) Yeah.

Rick Sola (22:26.516) Is that potentially something we're missing in our schools right now is we're not teaching how to use AI? You know, I know there's some resistance to it like hey, you're right and I brought this up on on here before it reminds me so much I remember when Google really started to explode back in like 07 08 or whatever and there was there were like two camps of teachers of hey, we need to teach them how to use Google it's not going away and then there was the other side of

No, they are not allowed to use Google and this is, it's like Google's not going anywhere. Now here we are. It's like, yeah, it's still around. We better teach them how to use it and how to use it responsibly. I see that with AI, but there are the resistors. Are we missing something in schools, do you think?

Mike (23:10.942) You're talking to a tech enthusiast, right? So I'm gonna say yes. I'm also gonna tell you that I can show you some articles, some op-eds in the newspapers back in the 1840s, where they were upset and fired up over the damnation of the future of America, the number two pencil, right? I can show you that, right? We've always been afraid of technology. You know what mean? The Luddites existed for a reason, right? We've always been afraid of technology. We always have.

Rick Sola (23:14.472) Hahaha

Rick Sola (23:28.819) Ha

Mike (23:39.645) But we've always managed to harness the power of technology. And I'm not gonna say that we've always managed to harness it to the benefit us the way that we thought it could, because I don't think we've ever done that. But we've managed to harness the power of technology to at least avoid the pitfalls that everybody was afraid of. You know what saying? We've always done that. But I will say this, AI is a different beast. It's not a number two pencil. It really is a different beast.

But I again as I said earlier, I don't think it's going away. It's not you know, it's not going away I think you are missing something you are missing the boat if you're not teaching your kids how to use it because I am Right and when my kids leave here and they're competing against your kids in this world I think my kids are gonna have the upper hand right they're gonna have a competitive advantage. I think they are

Rick Sola (24:26.718) Yeah, I really feel like I remember very vividly a pre internet world. That's how old I am. I can remember the world before the internet. But I remember it coming onto the scene and I remember the changes. And of course, here we are. think AI is this generation's kind of internet. They're going to remember the world before AI.

Mike (24:33.348) Yep.

Rick Sola (24:47.686) And then it's going to be like, how do we ever have it, not have it, you know, it's that big and it's just evolving so quickly. What have you seen and what do you acknowledge is truly a real challenge of working with AI in schools with students? What do you see as the biggest?

Mike (25:06.735) This is not just students, It's human beings. Human beings always, it's how we're wired. It's not your fault, right? But we're like water, right? We wanna find the path of least resistance. It's natural. Your brain needs to manage the energy that's being expended, right? It just, does. So you try to find the path of least resistance. So kids will, and adults,

Right? We'll try to utilize AI to cut corners. They just will. And so I think the biggest struggle, or at least one of the struggles, I shouldn't say the biggest, but one of the struggles we have is really convincing all of us how to use it right. Right? Don't let it replace your thinking because it's so easy to do. Right? Like, how do you still want to make sure that you're, again, as I say this all the time,

get into the messiness of the beautiful struggle of learning, Still making sure that we're doing it. So I think that's a problem, not just for kids, but for adults in general. And then here's the other thing too, right? And this is an old number, and you're gonna laugh when I say it, because it came out in October, but it's old. It's six months old, it's a bit outdated. But...

When chat GPT released some data back in mid late October a million a million users per week, right? We're we're utilizing a conversation with chat GPT regarding suicide, right? That's a problem. All right that that is you know, and one of the things that if you follow me if you read by right

Rick Sola (26:49.054) Right.

Mike (26:54.922) One of the things I talk an awful lot about is what I call the, it's called AI squared, right? I think in every organization, in every school, there's two forms of AI. You have artificial intelligence, and then you have the adult inhabitants of that organization, right? You have two of them. Here's my question for people. Why are kids turning to AI, right, for the social-emotional issues, instead of the adult inhabitants in the building? What's going on there?

Why is that happening? Why is there a million users per week having conversations with AI regarding suicide? Why is that happening? That's a concern. It really is.

Rick Sola (27:40.114) Are there any statistics, you know, and I wonder if it has to do with the anonymity they feel like they have with with AI, but is there any statistics of? Yeah, I have heard and read so many of the just the awful tragedies that have occurred out of it, and I think that's what you know that those are our headlines that people who aren't as familiar with AI, they see, and I think that's where some of the fear of AI comes in. But statistics where AI has.

has helped or has it been kind of a one-sided deal just based on your your research?

Mike (28:12.78) You know, I can't tell you the number you're asking for right now, because I don't know that, but I can tell you this.

In Ohio, we have help lines that the kids are allowed to call and contact when they're struggling. That's anonymous. Yeah, we're not getting a million hits per week in Ohio. We're not getting 10,000 hits per week in Ohio. We're not getting a thousand hits per week. I don't know if it's a thousand, but we're not getting those numbers, right? And that's anonymous, right? So why are they turning to AI? Because it's in your back pocket? Because it's your back pocket? Or is it because it's on your phone and you just dealt with a social media issue on your phone?

Rick Sola (28:40.03) Right, right.

Rick Sola (28:44.136) Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (28:51.666) you know, and you don't know how to deal with it. So you're just taking your phone and going to the next app, which is your, you know, your Gemini app, whatever it may be. And that's where you're I don't know. But I will tell you, I don't think creating a an SEL AI bots the answer, you know, I don't think creating another AI bots the answer to that, which I know some people are doing. And here's the other thing too, that that I think we need to keep in mind, when we train AI,

We're training AI with every available data that we can pull off the internet, That's where it's coming from. Well, all of our social media is on the internet, right? All of our social media is on the internet. Social media is being fed into AI to help train it, right? That's a big source of the training, at least it used to be, for AI. And I don't know if you've noticed, but people aren't always kind on social media, right?

They're not always nice on social media. They're not. And if that's what we're feeding into AI, doesn't surprise you sometimes that AI is not always nice back? Doesn't surprise you sometimes that AI suggests that maybe you should probably commit suicide?

Rick Sola (29:59.262) Right. No, that's.

Rick Sola (30:04.404) Yeah, it's very interesting. There's so many layers. I feel like truly I scratched the surface, but it's so intriguing because you can kind of see where it's going. Technology, it's an exponential graph on its growth. with AI, just like you mentioned, October, I joked about pre-COVID, that's ancient history. But October kind of is when it comes to AI.

But I know you are using this at your school. And as a principal, it's being very helpful for you, like you mentioned, as a tool. I'd love for you to share a little bit about what does AI do to help you on your day to day? What does it look like?

Mike (30:52.478) Yeah, and give me one second. I'll jump into that, but I do want to give a shout out. I'd be remiss if I didn't. I have a STEAM teacher here who's amazing. She's also our athletic trainer and she's also finishing her degree in admin. And so she had to do a project this year for her admin and she chose to do AI. And she's worked really hand in hand with our staff this year with surveying kids, surveying staff, trying to find out, you know,

where our students are when it comes to AI use, where our staff is when it comes to AI use. She set up some PD for our staff as well. So what we're doing at Buckeye Central simply is solely is not me. I am really, really blessed to have Amy Betts. That's the other individual who's been doing a lot with us too. So let me give a shout out to her. I'd be remiss if I did not. She's been amazing. But to answer your question, there's a lot of ways that you can use AI as a principle.

So again, I don't want AI to replace me. I don't want AI to replace my thinking. But I do want to find ways that AI could save me time, help me be a little bit more strategic with my time use, help me be a little bit more consistent. So if there's something that I use a lot, like if there's a task that I do a lot, I try to use AI. I don't like to go to Gemini and

or chat and write a prompt, because if I do it a lot, I'm always writing the prompt. So I like to build bots or gems or GPTs, whatever you want to call them, for tasks that I do a lot. So, and then I also, I like to look for pain points. Like what's a pain point that impacts my world that maybe I could use AI to solve? For example, you may have this problem in your school, and I'll bet you to guess that most of our listeners have this problem.

It's hard to find substitutes, is it not? It's hard to find substitutes. It's even harder to find really good substitutes. I mean, there's days we just get people who have heartbeats that are in the building, right? Just so we're covered for liability reasons. And so one of the things that I wanted to make sure I did for our staff was I wanted to find, create a better way for them to make quality lesson plans

Mike (33:14.355) for substitutes, right? And so I sat down and I did the 80-20 thing. I wrote what I think would be the ideal lesson plan for a substitute, not for a teacher, but for a substitute. I'm thinking about my building. I'm thinking about the instruction that happens in my building. I'm thinking about the instruction that happens in each classroom and the expectations that I have. And if I'm gonna have a substitute in there, I still have expectations, right? And so I wanna create a lesson plan that meets that level of

expectations. So I developed that lesson plan. And then I connected that lesson plan to every single standard that exists for every single class that we have. I built this bot. And I also have a number of teachers, you know, who have young children and young children get sick at six o'clock in the morning and are vomiting. And now the teacher can't come to school, but the teacher didn't have a lesson plan. So what are you going to do that day? Right. So now all my teachers need to do is they need to log on, type in the standard or the topic.

that they're teaching in the grade level, and it creates a lesson plan for them, right? Devised specifically for substitutes, right? And it generates it within seconds. And then they simply just share it with me and my secretary, and we print it out and we're ready to roll. We're ready to roll, right?

Rick Sola (34:34.014) So you're talking about building a bot. I think I know what you're talking about, just in case, just in case there's people listening that don't, explain that. What do mean you're building a bot?

Mike (34:40.223) Okay.

Mike (34:47.73) So, and maybe I'm oversimplifying the term for our listeners, we're a Google school. I'm guessing most of your listeners are probably Google schools as well. So we use Gemini. And inside of Gemini, you can create gems, right? So I created a gem that's specifically designed to develop high quality instructional lesson plans for substitutes, right?

And I mean, when I say high quality, mean, it gives, creates, you know, I can statements, measurable I can statements, I want those, right? Measurable I can statements. It's a high, thinking back to when you were in college, the lesson plan wasn't that intense because sometimes they're over the top, but it really is the most important parts of what you need. And then I even, when it was being used, I still noticed that when I do some walkthroughs that,

Some of the substitutes were struggling still, to deliver the content the way I wanted to. And some of them were just heartbeats and didn't know how to deliver the content. So then I added to this gem. Now it creates the lesson plan, but it also creates a script too. So all the teacher has, all the substitute has to do is get up and just start reading the script, right? And then it stops and tells, now the kids will do this and the kids go do this. But that was a pain point for me.

It was a pain point for me because I have high quality teachers, great teachers, and there is no substitute for good teaching, but I also want my teachers to be really, really good parents. I want them to be really involved with their families. And so when they have a sick child, I don't want them to have to worry about the lesson plan or coming to school because I want them to be a parent, take care of their kids. So how can we create, how can I use that as a pain point to use AI to alleviate that pain point? So that's what we did. We built these gems. So that's one way.

I use gems to do data analysis for me.

Rick Sola (36:54.516) How does that look? And I know there's a lot of talk about being careful. can't put personally identifiable information. You've got data. You've got students attached to that data. How do you dump it into a Gemini and let it do its thing safely?

Mike (37:07.058) It's anonymity, right? Like you literally just replace the names with the code, right? So I have spreadsheet, has all the names and the data on it. I make a copy of that spreadsheet, right? And then I just give the names a number. That's all I do, right? And so spreadsheet A, Mike Martin, spreadsheet B, number one. Mike Martin is number one, right? I upload spreadsheet B and we're off and running.

Rick Sola (37:30.228) Sure. You've got your spreadsheet of student data. Give an example of a prompt you would use that would be effective, you think would be effective to, let's say it's discipline data, and you're trying to use it to determine either infraction or time of day or whatever, just from an effective prompt standpoint.

Mike (37:55.558) Yeah, so I'd start off probably telling the the prompt that you know it is a it is a high school principal in state of Ohio. Who is an expert at data analysis.

who has uploaded some of your discipline data and that you are working with your PBIS team and you want to analyze the data that we have for discipline. We also want to analyze the data that I've uploaded for attendance. I also want to maybe analyze the data that I've uploaded for some of our grades, whatever data I have, right, for PBIS I uploaded, right? And then I also say for us, you know, there are certain goals we have for our

our PBIS and I'll let them know here's the goals that our PBIS is focused on, our PBIS is focused on this year. know, highlight for me, or based on the data, provide for me some high level data analysis of what we can pull from the data, know, high level data analysis that we can use to interpret and to...

move forward and meet these goals. Something like that, right? I'm sorry, you kind of caught me wicking in on my feet, but something like that. in essence, I'm giving it a name. It knows what its role is, right? I'm giving it some information. has information with the data that's being uploaded to it. It knows that it's Ohio and Ohio is PBS and here's my goals. And it knows that, you know, we want to look at the data as opposed to those goals. What are some areas of strength? What are some areas of weaknesses? I may ask for it to do a

Rick Sola (39:12.05) Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (39:38.295) a

Mike (39:41.835) Shoot. A SWOT analysis too, right? What are some strengths, weaknesses? What are some areas of threats that we have as well? mean, somebody asked me to do a quick SWOT analysis if I wanted to. I can do a lot of things with it, and within seconds it generates it for us.

Rick Sola (39:59.392) Yeah, that's really cool. And like I said, I mentioned, yeah, I say on the surface, I'm more more familiar with it, but super intrigued. actually had, I don't know if you know the name, Trevor Gertson, but out here, I know he tours around a little bit, but he did some PD with staff. And this was about a year and a half ago. And it was really about how you can help yourself and some tool building and being.

having this tool work for you and be an assistant essentially. so, no, super, super intriguing. And I feel like I could just keep asking all sorts of questions. And it is, you mentioned the, it is not a number two pencil. You know, it is not. There's definitely the hesitation with technology, but this is unique. But there's certainly, there's a lot of...

Mike (40:43.852) It was not.

Rick Sola (40:55.444) Just a lot of things to kind of think of. And I really enjoyed hearing about just all the positive ways. Let's say there's someone listening right now and they're just, Mike, I hear you, but we gotta keep this away as long as we can. What would you say to that? Because certainly there's not just value in the short term, but kind of like you mentioned, 27 years from now, what

Mike (41:22.99) My first question is why? You know, why? What are the fears you have? What are the concerns you have? Right? Let's get those down. Because to be fair,

Rick Sola (41:24.126) what the workforce might look like. But what would you say to someone who's really just digging in heels with AI? And as you see it, as you understand it, and as you kind of forecast it, what would you say to that person?

Mike (41:51.821) there are some legitimate concerns, right? I mean, let's face that head on. Let's face it head on. I'm going to ask why. And then we're going to get a list of all those concerns and all those fears have, right? And then we're going to have discussions about those. And we're going to talk about how we can create systems, how we can utilize this tool to still reach the means that we want and still mitigate those fears and those concerns. Because don't.

You're going to get the cheating thing, right? That's going be the number one concern you're to get from teachers. Well, they're going to cheat with this. Well, it's going to do this. Well, you're right. Kids have been cheating though, ever since they've been asked to learn on their own, right? Ever since they've been asked to take a test. Human beings have found ways to cheat, right? That's always going to be there. And we've always tried to find ways to stop them from cheating, right? This is just the next iteration of that, right? So how are you going to stop them from cheating? Let's discuss how we're going to do that, right? What do we need to do on our end to do that?

And so that's the first thing I'm do. The second thing I'm gonna do is I really am gonna try to show them the benefits that it has, not only for them, but for the kids too, right? And let's find out where they are, where's their comfort level when it comes to utilizing AI. one of the things that I've done is I've built a survey that can tell me where you fall on what I call the ART spectrum, the ART, right? And so where do you fall in that spectrum?

And if your person's been fighting and resisting it, you probably fall into A, right, on the lower end of the spectrum. And if you do, that's fantastic. Let me show you some AI tools. Let me show you some AI prompts. Let me show you some ways you can use AI at your comfort level where you're at that's not gonna, that's gonna mitigate some of those risks and concerns that you talked to me about. And you can see the product and how that not only helps your students, but it can also help you too.

All right, that's my two-pronged approach. Does it always work? No, it doesn't. But I do find that it works more often than not. And then I'm gonna come back to this. It's not going away. It's just not. Let's not send our kids out into the wild west without having a gun at least, right? Let them put some bullets in the gun for them for love of me. Let them know how to go out there and survive.

Rick Sola (43:52.126) Yeah, that's great.

Rick Sola (43:58.292) Yep, 100%. No, is not.

Rick Sola (44:11.122) Yeah, it's not going away. It's more and more relevant. And even just in this school year, have seen just more of the understanding of just that sentiment. It's not going away. We need to really be more proactive, whether it be at an individual school, a district or even states, as you mentioned, you know, government involvement potentially and all that sort of thing. No, I love this and really enjoyed your insight on all of this and could.

certainly spend more time on that. want to make you reference your book. What is the name of your book again for AI?

Mike (44:46.764) Well, yeah, the first one I wrote was learning instruction with technology, which is actually still relevant. But the other one I wrote was AI-powered leadership.

Rick Sola (44:57.492) All right, I will link those in the show notes as well. No, all really good stuff. Mike, we have a tradition on this show. We always finish with an opportunity to brag on your people. You already mentioned Amy Betts. You already bragged on her. But you know, as well as I, we cannot do the job and we cannot do the job well without amazing people around us. So this is your opportunity to brag on the people of Buckeye Central High School out in Ohio.

Mike (45:13.002) He's amazing.

Mike (45:28.117) Listen, the high school staff at Buckeye Central is barring on the best there is. They're amazing in every way. I know all principals probably say that about their staff, but I'm here to tell you, that's true for ours, right? Listen, they understand that this is the direction we need to go. They may not all think it's the best direction to go. They all have some fears and some concerns with it, but they are pro kids so much that they're willing to put their fears aside.

They're willing to put their concerns to the side, right? And try their best to make sure that we teach our kids how to use this right. And so listen, a huge shout out to the staff just in general. They really are really, really good. As I said, Amy Betts has been an absolute rock star this year. Zach Capel is, I think, maybe one of the best teachers in the state of Ohio, if not the best math teacher in state of Ohio. And he is such a tech guru himself.

He's been using AI, he's been embracing gems. He did some PD for our staff using gems again, Google's gemini's version of bots, right? So he's been a rock star. I can go on and on and on and I will if you want me to. But certainly I am blessed, I know that. I am blessed to be around some pretty amazing people who've made what I do.

a whole lot easier. Sometimes I'm just the madman behind the desk with crazy ideas and they make it actually happen, right? That's why I'm certainly blessed.

Rick Sola (47:01.054) Well, it's awesome and some really, really nice words about your people out there and really enjoyed hearing about all the great things that you're doing at your school, specifically with AI, a topic that is not going away and only more more important that our kids have an understanding so that they can be responsible with it. Like I said, this is kind of the Google of this generation potentially. It's not going to go away and.

Mike (47:27.57) Nope.

Rick Sola (47:28.414) they're going to use it too, that's the thing. They're going to use it so we need to show them how and how that can be appropriately used and beneficial.

Mike (47:38.44) That is accurate. I think the stat IREV is like 86 % are using it. All so we're already behind. We're already behind, so.

Rick Sola (47:47.07) Yeah.

Well, Dr. Martin, thank you so much for your time here at the end of a Friday. I really appreciate it. And we'll keep an eye out on the developing trends two weeks from now. It's a whole new AI ball game, because that's how quick it changes.

Mike (47:53.05) Thank you!

Mike (48:03.752) It does, doesn't it? And that's the hard part, right? Is how do you keep up with a tool that changes as fast as it does?

Rick Sola (48:10.29) Yeah. Well, hey, have a nice weekend. Thank you for your time and all the best to the rest of the school year for you.

Mike (48:16.463) Hey, thanks. You too, Rick. I appreciate it.

Connect with the guest: derek.cantrell@ahps.k12.va.us

Connect on X: @derekcatch19

References from the show: Better Together: Building One School, One Culture, and One Community from Two Rivals

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Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Derek Cantrell 00:52 Derek's Educational Journey 02:55 The Consolidation Process 04:17 Catalysts for Change 06:04 Building a New Culture 07:40 Merging Traditions and Identity 09:49 Staff Integration and Challenges 13:08 Creating New Traditions 16:01 The Book: Better Together 16:37 Advice for School Leaders 17:43 Communication is Key 20:29 Finishing Strong in the School Year 21:53 Celebrating the Team 25:05 Looking Ahead to DC

FULL EPISODE Transcript

Rick Sola (00:01.561) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas principals. Today I'm visiting with principal Derek Cantrell, principal of Allegheny High School in Covington, Virginia. That's correct, right Covington? Okay. And also Virginia's 2026 principal of the year as part of the Virginia Association of Secondary School Principals, which is KPA sister organization. Derek, welcome to Cool Coffee and congratulations to you.

Derek Cantrell (00:12.846) That's correct.

Derek Cantrell (00:27.854) appreciate it and thank you for the opportunity to be on the podcast and look forward to the conversation.

Rick Sola (00:33.997) Yeah, I'm really excited to have you on. We were able to connect through our, I guess, mutual connection to the NASSP and saw that you, well, you've written a book which we'll get into, but specifically talking about the consolidation of schools, which is a very unique topic, but also one of great interest and like even personally some.

relevance where I'm at even over the next few years. But so looking forward to really getting into that. But I want to start as I start with with most of the shows and hear about your road to the chair that you are currently sitting in and kind of filling in, you know, the background here of of your educational journey. And I do want to state, first of all, I'm really excited. So, you know, cool coffee with Kansas principals. You're the first non-Kansas principal, Virginia principal here.

To Beyonce, welcome to this platform.

Derek Cantrell (01:34.09) Awesome, appreciate the opportunity. Education wise, my mother, my uncle.

were educators. Mother taught pre-K and did a little bit of special ed. My uncle, who helped raise me as well, was a shop teacher and eventually became a technical center CTE principal. So they really helped influence that kind of idea as I went through school. I graduated, went to Liberty, finished at Farum University and got my master's degree at James Madison in Virginia. Started off...

in Allegheny County Schools as a student, came back and was a teacher and a coach in the county system and then became the last principal at Covington High School, which is the city school that's surrounded by the county that did go into that consolidation piece. So was there for seven years and this is just completing my third year as the consolidated high school principal at Allegheny High School. So kind of a

about 10 years in the classroom before I got into administration and first job was a high school principal. kind of unique in that and jumping into that part of it and finishing the 10th year of that journey. So it's been an awesome ride and definitely, definitely it's fun. A lot of things happening on a daily basis.

Rick Sola (02:58.221) Yes, you reference being the consolidated high school principal from a vernacular standpoint where you're at. that how it's referred, the consolidated high school? Or how do you reference your school where you're at?

Derek Cantrell (03:13.358) At this point it is Allegheny High School. We're the Cougars and as we went through that process of consolidation, you know that was something that took several years in the making. had. It's actually been a conversation that was talked about for about 40 years while I was a student in school and then it would come up. It would go away and then right out of COVID the first the first day of school actually coming to high school. Our school board voted.

to consolidate schools, which then also took the other the County School Division to do that. And then both local governments. Once all that happened, then plans went into place to kind of prep the divisions merging the first year 2223 our school division merged and then 2324 actually 20. Yeah, 2324 was the first year of the consolidated high school with Allegheny and Covington High School, so.

long time in the making and you know as you went through that process of just building that plane and working with leadership groups along the way the first year here was 23.

Rick Sola (04:26.287) So you said it was kind of a post-COVID prompt. What would you say was the, I mean, for 40 years, having this off again, on again conversation, but then, you know, pull the trigger and we're doing it. What was it that was the catalyst, would you say, to like, let's do this? What was the big need?

Derek Cantrell (04:43.062) I think the part had been talked about for years was just the declining enrollment, resources, the ability to just sustain challenges and just be able to offer our kids more opportunities with advanced courses and just more support and staffing issues and become a thing as well throughout our community and pretty much around the country. It was a very emotional decision because

You had longstanding pride coming to high school was built in 1939. So pride traditions and values there. Allegheny High School was built in 1963. So we had to be very intentional about bringing those groups together and people don't necessarily fear loss. They just they fear losing those traditions and that change and how you can value those things as you come together.

and honor those with that and we were intentional with that process of it and just being able to listen and be creative with that really I think helped a lot.

Rick Sola (05:47.085) The traditions, the communities and everything is so personal. You use the word intentional and that's really what I'm so intrigued about with the consolidation. What you described, where I'm at and it's not totally unique to Kansas, but we're in a position right now where we do have declining enrollment and.

there's a need for basically less kids in too many schools. And so we have some school consolidations. We just passed a bond that will close four schools and into two schools, that sort of thing. And so it's very relevant. So that word intentional in bringing two communities together.

I imagine there's just so many things you've got to consider. I guess, where do you start? You you said it was post-COVID decisions made and boom, here we go. Where's the starting point?

Derek Cantrell (06:44.312) So the uniqueness would be I was hired in October a year or, you know, eight, nine months out before the start of the school year the next year. Then in January, I got assistant principals, marches, staff. So there was some time between the different hiring process of it. One thing that really felt with the consolidation piece that was utmost important, so if we didn't do people right in culture,

it was going be hard to be successful academically and those things on the back end. So we started with people. We created a culture and communication roadmap that made sure that we checked the box of each stakeholder that we needed to make sure that we communicated with throughout the process. And that would go from student advisory, parent advisory, surveys.

Asking staff what classes they would be interested in teaching so that they had input and scheduling to all the different parts along the way to simple things like When we hire a coach what time frame would that be how we announced those things? Even little things about when lockers were painted We made sure that we highlighted that in that symbolic change and posting the logo on the front door little wins

and little things like that help build momentum for the excitement as kids came in the door day one, because we really wanted it to feel brand new. Even though Covington High School kids were coming to the Allegheny High School's current building, we wanted it to be new for everybody as they walked in. wasn't a new school, but the hope was you come in, we're the Allegheny Cougars, and it's going to look different, feel different with that piece. So we focused on communication.

Rick Sola (08:22.447) Okay.

Derek Cantrell (08:33.836) visibility and consistent systems to just uplift our people and recognize the things that they're doing.

Rick Sola (08:41.007) Allegheny Cougars was was did you change the mascot and the colors or?

Derek Cantrell (08:46.862) So that's one of those things as you go down that road. We merged some of the things actually. have, like I said, we're at the Allegheny High School building. So we kept the mascot of Covington High School, the Cougars, and we merged the colors. Allegheny was red in Carolina, Covington was navy and gold. So we're at Carolina and navy, as you can see with the shirt, with that part of it. So we merged those things together to kind of keep some of those.

values, traditions, and that piece with it. And I think that's been a really good move for that community volume.

Rick Sola (09:25.209) How about like attrition? You you mentioned hiring coaches, hiring teachers, but I imagine you've got two schools worth of staff and coming together as one. Was there a blending of staff or was there attrition? Was there layoffs? Was there, you know?

Derek Cantrell (09:42.062) It actually there were no layoffs. The hope was through years down the road as retirements and things happen that that would be a cost savings to the community with that part. But it actually helped because I think both schools were a little understaffed in certain areas. So bringing those resources together, we could have a full science department at the high school. We could have special education teachers. We were.

I think one or two short at Covington at the time and Allegheny might have been one short, but bringing it together, we were able to make some of those things work better and have full departments. But three years in, as we've had some people retire, those spots just aren't filled. And that's how that cost savings to the locality works within that.

Rick Sola (10:31.789) Yeah, so you mentioned already a little bit of some of the challenges and I don't know, even something like colors of a school, you said you blended the colors together. I imagine there were some pretty strong feelings about either wanting to keep a certain color blend or not adopting even the cougars. Was there a hard sell even with something like the mascot for those coming in who weren't the cougars before?

Derek Cantrell (10:57.902) You know, a lot of that stuff, think that fear of losing identity drives a lot of the surrounding talk and the things, even a simple thing of where a trophy is going to be, how a recognition plays such a big role. We have both schools banners. We have a banner in the corner of our gym that has all the state, region and district championships from both schools. It's still honored. One's in Navy, one's in Carolina.

We have a Hall of Fame display out in the foyer that you can touch and click Hall of Fame's and records so we could bring that in. That was one I think of the big areas that we had to have an answer for early is how we were going to honor traditions, but also be able to do new things as we move forward for our kids. We tried to make sure we got away from the us versus them mindset as we came in and really focused on, you know, what are we doing as Allianni Cougars? How can we take?

some of the things that we're doing to make them better, working together as staff and groups and really try to over communicate so that rumors didn't take off flying and make those things happen on the forefront. we even had schedule day early in June, like mid-June in the summer. Typically we gave out schedules the week that kids came back for open house. We did it two months earlier, the first year.

And we've kind of kept that rolling just so we made sure day one kids had the schedule they wanted. We fixed all the problems. We could come in and worry about school and be ready for that. And I think some of the things that we did there really focusing on relationships over the summer, answering those questions of what people were concerned about, paid dividends. A lot of our meetings with kids and students were pretty simple. We talked about what we're doing.

But the end was kind of just a discussion on what are you excited about? What are some things you're concerned about? And if we couldn't answer them, put things in place to be able to alleviate that along the way. And that really paid dividends.

Rick Sola (13:51.151) Yeah, you mentioned the trophies and you know, one thing that I was really intrigued about as I was reading up on Allegheny a little bit was, know, this consolidation, it blended two rivalries together. And again, going back to that word intentional. But, you talk about the value of the culture and the

the traditions and things, you're also blending two together to then develop new traditions and culture. Is there something that transpired in year one that you would say now is part of a brand new tradition and culture of Allegheny that did not exist prior?

Derek Cantrell (14:35.266) We started off and we still do some things that each historical school had with some ceremonies and some different things. We really worked intentionally to just find ways that we can continue to recognize, acknowledge, and extend good things that our kids are doing, our staff is doing. After, towards our first year, we implemented a program called our Cougar Scholars Club. And basically what it is is a way to

get our kids where we need them to be to start their senior year. So in Virginia, we have SOL testing, which is our state standardized test. So at the end of, we noticed we were looking, struggling getting kids at their senior year to have everything done. They should be done by the time they start their senior year and not have to worry about getting those completed. So we created a program and once they get through the first year, if they've passed all their SOLs, that means if they take one or two,

They would be a Cougar Scholars Club member. They would get a T-shirt the first year. The second year after their sophomore year, if they've continued to meet at 100%. And if it's a special education student, if they earned a verified credit in Virginia, if they scored 375, taking it twice or more, we would count that as well because they've earned that for graduation. After their sophomore year, they'd get an athletic pass to all home games. So invest in them and our school for their success.

and their senior year they would get an athletic pass and a parking pass. And from year one to year two, after our second year, we went up 11 % with that program and really, I think it's kind of kickstarted that getting our students on board to be successful in taking things serious because they're invested in their self and our school to be successful. And that has been something cool that I think we've started that'll continue to go and escalate and build.

over the years and that's a new one that we didn't have at either place.

Rick Sola (16:39.117) How coveted is that parking pass?

Derek Cantrell (16:42.062) That one, I would say the main part with all that is make sure your bookkeepers are okay with your crazy ideas because that's a lot of money that we had to sacrifice. She wasn't happy, but she understood in the long run that investing in kids is a win for us and that gets more kids to games, gets more kids, know, there's a little parking pass, 25 bucks to park and the athletic pass I think is $100, so.

Rick Sola (16:49.923) Ha

Derek Cantrell (17:08.654) actually for the kids it's 50, so that's $75 worth of benefits for knocking it out to park and doing what you're supposed to do. So it's really helping us, I think, get ourselves in the right spot as kids get along towards their senior year.

Rick Sola (17:24.815) So Derek, as I kind of did some background reading on your school and you and the accomplishment that you have with the 2026 Principal of Year, but you're also an author and I didn't mention that in the startup, but you've written a book about this. What's the name of the book?

Derek Cantrell (17:43.042) The book is better together. that's kind of the one community, one rival, just working into that in the hopes to kind of make it a practical playbook that you can read and get the story, but also be able to get some of the different programs that we've put in place and the things that we did on the forefront to really value people and relationships to help us be successful.

Rick Sola (18:07.743) If a person, if a principal is listening to this right now and they're going to be in charge of blending a school or even multiple schools together or communities together, what would be that first bit of advice you would give them based on the experience you went through?

Derek Cantrell (18:23.256) think the main thing is relationships and really focus on people. When you value people and relationships and building culture first, good things follow. The academics and the other success will come with that. A lot of research and things. I've read a book, Humane Leadership, and it really talks about how people that put relationships first in businesses and schools.

have bigger impact than people that worry about just the bottom line and money. Your people stay, they feel valued, you get more out of them. So it's definitely important to put people first and communicate on the forefront. And I think that really sets the momentum in the stage for great things to come.

Rick Sola (19:11.267) I really liked that advice and I can imagine, I mean, it's just like the principal job in general. There's times where, I mean, things are burning, things are moving, but there's so much care that has to go along with it. Is there a part of this process that you'd be willing to share out here that maybe you stubbed your toe and it was like, through this, like, maybe it's part of your book, like this was something like, hey, don't do this. Is there anything that you would share?

Derek Cantrell (19:38.018) You know, I think the main thing that you learn is the communication. Overcommunication is okay. That if you don't get something out, it'll create its own narrative. There'll be something going, hey, they're gonna take this trophy or this thing and they're moving it down out of the building or here or there or the other place. And it's very important as you get those things you can answer them to overcommunicate the plan.

to the best that you can, that we're gonna value, take things seriously and really involve as many people as we can within that part of it. And I think that's important as you go through basically any kind of change process and definitely little things that you might not think are big, are big to somebody. you know, especially when you're talking tradition and pride, that that makes those feelings even stronger and

You definitely have to listen and I think that's so important throughout that process and the more you do in front and even can take that time to step back and answer those things, it's going to help you in the end.

Rick Sola (20:47.373) Yeah, that's a good advice. Yeah, a narrative will be created. Either you created or somebody else will. That's really, I really like that. Well, Derek, I appreciate your insight on that. Before we sign off here, it is April as we record this. And I'm not as confident in knowing the Virginia school calendar out there. Are you year round? Are you just nine months? What's it look like out there?

Derek Cantrell (21:16.642) We start mid-August, teachers come back first August, school ends late May, typically first of June. We have a summer, we're pretty much off June and July, 12 month folks work. Summer school is typically in June, we have a month of that at the high school level. So not year long, we do have the summer break that kids and teachers get. You you're kind of getting to that, we just start.

Easter break this week. So we're off Friday, Monday, Tuesday for just a quick refresh before the final kick. And, you know, I think April is that time that you're kind of, you need a break. You got that last kind of momentum kick and refocus on those expectations, relationship and purpose and, you know, keep things positive and visible because it kind of sets the tone for that finish about this time of year because it kind of, it's 82 degrees outside today. It looks great and beautiful.

Everybody wants outside and that part gets interesting sometimes. It's part of the year.

Rick Sola (22:21.025) I'm jealous to hear that you're headed to a little mini spring break there. We have a very similar calendar. We had a bigger spring break in March, now we're kind of in the home stretch, but it's about a month and a half or so or more as we record this on April 2nd here. What advice do you give? We have some principals who listen to this who are new to the chair. Maybe this is their first April as a principal. What advice would you give them?

Derek Cantrell (22:51.47) You know, I think finish strong, continue to recognize students and staff and the good things they're doing. Be visible, be out in your buildings, talk to people. It's always, it gets a little crazy as we get to the testing time. Make sure that you've got your observations and all those things done because here in the next month it's over really quick. As Yogi Bear always would say, it gets late early. And it always feels like it gets late really quickly in a school at the end of the year. So those...

Rick Sola (23:16.185) You

Derek Cantrell (23:21.036) those things that you got to knock off your plate before the end of the year. Make sure that you're doing those now. Stay visible and continue to uplift your people.

Rick Sola (23:30.703) Gosh, I'm a huge fan of Yogi Berra and all his quotes, and I don't think I've ever heard that one. It gets laid early.

Derek Cantrell (23:36.65) And that's in relationship of Yankee Stadium and left field. The shadows would get him out there early in the game, so he would say it gets late early out in left field in Yankee Stadium. So it's a good one.

Rick Sola (23:47.695) That is a really good one. I wrote it down. think I'm going to throw it into a newsletter or something here. That's perfect. Well, speaking of baseball, I know you're on your way out to a baseball game here in Allegheny. A tradition of this show is I like to give principals an opportunity to brag on their people. So much of what we do does not happen with all the amazing people behind us. So this is a chance to share with all the listeners. Allegheny and all its people, what would you say about them?

Derek Cantrell (24:18.414) You know, would say that we have a bunch of wonderful people and to be able to get a state honor or anything like that, that definitely echoes that. Our leadership team's excellent. Charity Hale has been an assistant principal here with me. She actually was a teacher at Covington High School and then came to Allegheny before the consolidation. So she's seen both sides as well with that and she's been an outstanding leader within this process and really helped with the...

athletic piece of it through consolidation beforehand and been an outstanding AP. We have Jennifer Rather, Ty Dobbs, and Timothy Cochran was a part of our team and passed away in February of 25. So we had to, he actually went through a school consolidation before and brought some things to our team that were really cool and beneficial. And Ty Dobbs is our athletic director. Athletics played a huge part of that. And Jennifer has been super awesome with.

with everything she's done. Our staff is top notch, outstanding people. They love being here and being a part of it. And I like to say when I do a podcast with just our kids and when I ask our kids who their favorite staff members are and why, I continually hear that we have people that are kind, they go out of their way to listen and talk to kids. And like I tell them, when kids say that, that's huge. We want people that they feel that...

they can talk to and that they really have their best interests there. Our community, I think, gave us a chance. It's something that was definitely difficult to go through with that consolidation piece, so we appreciate that. Our leadership team at the school board office, they were building this plane while they didn't know what job they were going to have, and it's tough to do.

you know, hats off to the things that they do to put us in a chance to be successful. And I'd like to also hat tip Melinda Snead Johnson. She's retiring from education. I think she's putting 50 years. She was my superintendent at Covington and gave me my opportunity to do this and has still been with me as 10 years as a high school principal. I appreciate all that she's done to help grow me and value our kids and our staff and just really.

Rick Sola (26:25.593) Wow.

Derek Cantrell (26:39.906) you know, the heart that she has, that she does on a daily basis. And she's been our assistant superintendent currently and Kim Halterman's our superintendent at this time. And she has been outstanding at letting us continue to grow, go out and share the message and the things that we're doing. And those folks definitely help us. But such a team effort, you don't have opportunities to...

like I said, principal of the year type stuff without great people and staff and students. And our students came in and gave us a chance to be successful. They adapted and they were courageous with coming into a school that they didn't ask for at the time. And really, you wouldn't have known a week or two into school that anything was different. They showed up, they wore the colors, they wore the gear.

It's been an awesome experience and super humbled and proud to have the opportunity to lead that part of it at our school with our team.

Rick Sola (27:42.563) Well, a lot of really good words about the people out there you work with and with the principal of year. Are you going to DC in a couple of weeks?

Derek Cantrell (27:52.002) Yeah, April 15th, heading up that way and kind of excited for sure. I've talked to Tony Katani a little bit. I did his podcast the other year and he kind of kickstarted me into doing some of these things and getting out and our message at different conferences and all. And he said, it's an outstanding event and you learn a lot and you make a lot of wonderful connections. And so super excited for that and to get to go up there in a couple of weeks.

and be involved with the leadership and advocacy training that they offer.

Rick Sola (28:25.667) Yeah, and I've listened to Tony's podcast before. I've not talked with him myself, but I hope to meet you in person. I'll be there as well in a couple of weeks. So I'll have to look you up. it's great having you on. I really appreciate your time. I know you're on your way to a break and on your way to a game. But having someone on from another state, in this case, Virginia, it's just a reminder that what we do in our schools is it's shared the challenges, the successes, and

It's really great to have you on and just to share about the consolidation and the success you had. And I'll put that your book in the show notes. So anybody who's looking at it up can click on that and look it up. I know, like I said, it's super relevant where I'm at. I'm in a suburb south of Kansas city and you know, it's not totally unique. So it happens, but it's definitely unique as a principal to go through it for sure. So, but yeah, I want to thank you for being here and I want to wish you all the best on your break and we'll see you in a couple of weeks.

Derek Cantrell (29:24.864) All right, appreciate it Rick. Thank you and thanks for all you do and continue to do the outstanding things you're doing.

Rick Sola (29:30.457) All right, thanks Derek. All right.

Connect with the guest: sgreen@usd271.com 

Connect on X: @usd271sgs

References from the show: Emily P. Freeman - The Next Right Thing Emily P. Freeman - How to Walk into a Room

Cool Coffee Episodes Featuring Stacey Green: #4, #22, #65, & #89

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Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Stacey Green 01:03 Reflecting on Retirement Decisions 04:22 The Journey to Retirement 10:30 Legacy of Leadership at Stockton 13:18 Advice for New Principals 18:07 Future Plans and Next Steps 20:45 Looking Forward to Spring Events

Full Episode Transcript

Rick Sola (00:01.946) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas Principals. Today's episode brings back Mrs. Stacey Green, principal at Stockton Grade School, pre-K through eight, a USA Kansas rep, KPA board of directors, and a frequent contributor to this podcast. You can see episodes four, 22, 65, and 89, and I'll put all those in the show notes. A principal legend here in Kansas and just an all around favorite of so many people.

I've heard that in person, conversational reference, and on this very podcast, and a person who has been so kind to me in this show. So, so glad to have you. Stacy, welcome back to Cool Coffee.

Stacey Green (00:42.958) Good morning, Rick. It's good to see you.

Rick Sola (00:45.166) Yeah, it's great to see you too. So for a little bit of context here, we are recording this. It's St. Patrick's Day, which also means it is spring break. So Stacy, thank you for coming in and or jumping on here to record this. But I'm really excited to visit with you, to catch up with you. But this is a big quarter coming up for you.

Stacey Green (01:08.534) Yes it is. Thank you again for coming in on your spring break. I appreciate that as well working around my schedule. Yes it's my final quarter which seems so very strange to say and some I think every day I get asked are you counting the days and this is true I am NOT counting the days. I think the minute I cross over the threshold of the building I enter each day I get busy and before I know it I'm walking out the door so there's not any counting. I think this is something I've instilled in my staff even like when we

head to Christmas break or head to spring break or head to the end of the year, make the days count. Don't count the days. So I'm glad in my own brain I've instilled that enough that I'm making the most of every day we have until I complete this work.

Rick Sola (01:50.212) Yeah, that's really, really good advice. And it's so tempting, I'm sure, to even take moments. And we'll get into it here in a little bit about kind of we've talked about your road to the chair that you're in, but really I'm interested in the road to your retirement. it was about it was over just over a year and half ago that you were on this podcast. It was the fourth episode. So brand new in this show's journey. But you had posted something

about how you were beginning, I believe it was your 35th year at the time, and you still have so many things to be excited about, which is really remarkable. And we spent some time talking about that. So if we were to spend some time now talking about your road to retirement, what did that road look like up to the point of you made the decision like, OK, it's time?

Stacey Green (02:44.396) I wish I would have marked that more carefully, but I would say it was about this time a year ago. A good friend of mine during our Christmas time had shared an author with me. Her name is Emily P. Freeman. Spiritual director, she's also just an avid writer. She has a podcast that I listen to faithfully. Also for those that like collections on apps, she has some daily apps. she talks a lot about the next right thing. And she talks about how, whether we're a lot about decision fatigue, she talks about

small decisions you might be in or maybe make life changing. So I started reading her book, The Next Right Thing. Another one called How to Walk into a New Room. Something similar that I don't have that exact title in front of me, but just really it was the right...

text for me, the right voice for me at that time. And I really started looking at like, what are my next right steps? I feel like, and I said this in my letter to the board when I resigned in December, I'm not leaving with any regrets. I'm not leaving because of anyone. It's just the next right thing for me. And that's really where I've done most of my discernment is just.

What does that look like to put me first? I'm typically, I'm such a service-oriented person. I really had to have some coaching and some training along the way to make this 13-year principalship run work for me and my family because I give a lot. But learning during that time from coaching from others how to...

allow others to serve and how to delegate better and so those kind of things. But yeah, getting back to that, I think that that March and starting to follow Emily, started making some notes. I also decided I wouldn't make that decision coming out of the end of the school year. I felt like I was weary. We're tired at that time. That's not my best decision making time. I wanted to have the summer last summer to really finish the work.

Stacey Green (04:29.518) through some journaling and some writing there. So that's what I did. And then came back and started this fall semester and knew by October it was the right thing. And so I've really had not any regret. I'm gonna miss a lot of people. I'm gonna miss the students. I'm gonna miss the routines, but yeah, it's the right thing. So I'm excited about that.

Rick Sola (04:46.778) I really like the, I guess the insight or the foresight or I guess awareness maybe of, you know, not making that decision at Memorial Day. You know, we are coming off of a school year and you mentioned that decision fatigue. I mean, that's, you're at the very end of the year and it's very, very busy and you're worn down. And so to have that wherewithal of like, okay, this is how I'm feeling. I feel really strongly about this, but I'm not making that final decision.

And you said it was October that you just kind of came to that. Was there anything significant about that time frame or that specific time of the school year?

Stacey Green (05:27.426) I don't think so. think I was just more self-aware and just like...

hallway walks in and out of classrooms and just being aware of the great things that are happening and the sustainability we have with teacher leadership and with our current superintendent and the board. just felt like we were finally at that place where okay this work can continue. It won't take me to be the one to lead that. There's enough people in these places and spaces. That took staff a long time to grasp and I shared with them my plans. It was like my goodness no hang on here. We had the tears. We had the moments but you've got all the right things in place and so

of my teacher leadership that's come from something that's been a passion of mine when I came into this role is that this wasn't about me, it was about we and what can you do as leaders in the classroom that know those students day in and day out. You know the curriculum resources, you know the standards. Stand up for yourselves and advocate for yourselves and continue to be strong and you're putting students first.

Rick Sola (06:23.396) You mentioned the tears and the sharing the news and all that outside of your family. Who was the first to know?

Stacey Green (06:32.994) wow. Probably my secretary. Yeah. She has been with me five years now. Incredible. Came at the right time. right after COVID. My other secretary left. She'd been there several years and when the pandemic came, she decided that was her time to step away. So Ms. Rhonda came in right after that. So I think she was the next person to know. Just again, faithful woman who discerned with me, talked with me, still encourages me. So that's been super helpful.

Rick Sola (07:01.39) So I know every year we have principals that retire and there's no one way to go through this process. But how did that go as far as announcing to your staff? Was it a staff meeting? Was it an email? Was it they found out in the newspaper? What way did you go about letting your staff know?

Stacey Green (07:19.438) you

Stacey Green (07:26.158) So we have what are called Wednesday accountability meetings and this came out of our work through the redesign and we've kept that. So every Wednesday we meet from 345 to fourish, about 15 minutes and it's just a quick, sometimes it's a standup meeting sometimes, but we're always hitting those things we're working on quickly instead of long staff meetings. So I had scheduled one of, had that on schedule already and so before I turned my letter into the board, my superintendent knew that, but before I turned that letter into her, I sat down with my staff and actually read the letter to them.

was easiest way for me to work through that. So we just had that time together. And some of, by that point in time, some of the people I have more often conversations with were figuring it out by that time.

Rick Sola (08:08.878) Yeah, I was going to ask, know, I've been around a while, whether it's retirement or a promotion of some sort, and people start to kind of dig a little bit and make reference. Well, if you're here next year or what are your thoughts? Did you get any kind of like you could you could tell that they're starting to really question or kind of wonder?

Stacey Green (08:27.886) Yes, they were. Yeah, and I was weary a couple times early in the fall, and I think they picked up on that. There were some things happening that weren't within my control and some things that we had to make some daily decisions on, and I was getting, it was a weary time. So I think they were picking up on some of that as well.

Rick Sola (08:46.618) So I know you have a kind of maybe it's a conscious effort not to do the, you know, this is the last time for the last spring break or the last this or that, but have you caught yourself at any point kind of in that moment of, wow, like, you know, this is kind of the home stretch type deal.

Stacey Green (09:05.246) Yes, so I hope I can do this without some tears if I hadn't thought about this. just finished my last round of teacher evaluations. And my last one I wrote was for a young man who came in as a sponsored student teacher for us because we couldn't find a PE teacher. So he did a student teaching with us, which was basically on his own. I had a high school PE teacher checking on him. had myself checking on him, but he was really on his own. And then stayed on with us last year. We'll continue. This is this.

one and a half year with us as on license and then we'll come back again next year. So it was, I didn't mean to intentionally save his for last, but it worked out that way. again, that teacher leadership part and growing him, it was pretty cool to have him be one of my final ones. And then the other one was my 44 year veteran who came, he had been a long time counselor for us. He,

had gone over to the high school as a counselor, then retired and went to a private school for a year and then we had an opening and came back to finish two years with us. So that was also a cool moment. He's done, because we know in teacher education he ended up back on that cycle of two-year evaluations, bless his heart, after 44 years. So he and I finished that together last week right before break to it. So that was pretty awesome to

bring that first circle from an early educator to a veteran 44 year educator and be able to give them some feedback but also some just affirmation of their work and how much they're appreciated in education.

Rick Sola (10:28.804) Well, the time and care that you put in, it's always been evident and we haven't known each other for very long in terms of either of our careers. But certainly I have seen that and appreciated that. And it's being conveyed so strongly even right now, just talking with you and to hear that, the teacher evaluations is the thing that stuck out. Because I think a lot of us, we see those dates come up like, gosh, I'm behind, I need to catch up.

But that speaks volumes about you and it's really neat. You referenced the setting up to continue. Your school is set up to continue based on your leadership but also the empowering of leaders in your building. What has you most proud as you step away and you would envision like this is kind of something that will.

either last or continue on, but what has you most proud at Stockton as you do move into your retirement?

Stacey Green (11:33.135) It definitely is that, If I look back to like that spring of 2012 when I was stepping into assistant principal that first year with our then superintendent, I had written down some things and something for our news article and a lot of was around that topic of...

We have had so many superintendents. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you how many, but it's about every two years. And so when you've had 17 superintendents in your 36 years and you being one of them for an interim, we've had a lot of turnover, but we've got great staff and great students and a great community. It's just that I can't name it. I never have been able to figure out what it is. A couple of friends in education say we need to tackle this as a research project and look at that. that was one of my things going into that fall of 13 was I want to

leave a legacy where teachers will lead. Where there won't be that here comes the boat again we're sailing off we can maybe hang on for a year but then things change and all that. So that was really my focus. Good or bad there's a lot of miss I don't know how you would describe it but there's a lot of

The word redesign like there's like we found that as a district to be very good towards the end It wasn't as well received by our community with some things we had changed They weren't ready for that change yet, even though and we felt like we were as a district So I still go back to that time and probably the thing that we reaped the most from during that time was the teacher leadership the way we constructed our research and the way who is the small groups of teachers who were leading that and the piloting of the work that they were doing that was the one of the first times I really

saw as tiring as the work was, I saw an energy I've never seen before in educators. And if I look back at those, we called them our pilot, people who were leading, one of them now is just...

Stacey Green (13:20.298) She's my sixth through eighth grade math teacher, profound educator who has had a turn of events in the way she leads in her classroom, but also leads across the state in committee work and work at KSDE and just very proud of her. to watch her growth was phenomenal. Another one is a couple of them I've already left our district, but again, I love to watch them lead in other places now and to cheer them on and to know that they took those skills and that confidence they had in leading into another district and have done so well there as well.

That's my exciting part. And I keep telling them now, they keep talking about the days and getting close. Just keep leaving, keep those things in front of you. Know your course, know your why. And I don't want to use that loosely either, but they've done the research and they know what it takes to be able to do the work day in and day out because they're researchers, they know that now.

Rick Sola (14:11.45) I'm sure you have reflected on this certainly more than I have, maybe even more than most. when you think about your time in Stockton and the many years you put in, really the final couple months, two to three months, that goes a long way in setting up for that future and all the things that you mentioned for the continuing on of all the great things.

I know you're very intentional about that. It's awesome to hear that and kind of leads me to correct me if I'm wrong. This is year 36 in education. What is some advice that you've received that stuck with you all these years? Perhaps it's the best advice you received as an educator.

Stacey Green (14:46.478) Yes.

Stacey Green (15:00.47) I did some work, my most intentional work with the inspired leadership and Rachel Thulman was my coach at that time and she taught me how to shut my office door. That was something I was always open door, come see me when you need to see me. I was out in classrooms, very visible, but then it was the nights and weekends that I was doing all the work because I just was available all the time. So she taught me and matter of

She strategically scheduled a couple of my sessions with her during the school day. had to, I mean, I got permission from my superintendent, but I would shut the door during the school day and work with her for 45 minutes to an hour.

knowing there might be a lot going on outside, but I think that was another step too and letting my staff know I'm not available for this hour. Who do you have you can lean on? Who, where can you work that so you're supporting each other and to give me this time to grow too and that was tough. But I learned it and I can do that better today. I can shut that door for an hour and work on an evaluation. I can shut the door and work on the deep work that we need to have happen and not that during the times of the evenings and weekends when I'm tired or

I'm ready to spend time with my family. Another thing that stuck with me was the shoulding. We should ourselves. I should be at this event. I should be doing this. I should be doing that. And again, that's something that continues to creep back up even here in this final quarter that I put a lot of weight into is that I don't have to do all of that. I just need to learn that some of those shoulds are things I've put on myself that no one else has given to me. I've just assumed that and I need to correct that.

Rick Sola (16:34.528) It's interesting, you both of those things you mentioned, they're kind of in the category of principal guilt that I think we all feel. I'm totally it's what you're saying resonates with me so much, almost like I need to shut my door so I can catch up on something. that guilt factor, almost like you're like you're doing something wrong and you kind of answer the question. But you just addressed it. You mentioned you told your staff that I'm unavailable during these times.

Shutting your door, do you put that on your calendar or do you just kind of as you need it, you're willing to shut your door? How do you go about that?

Stacey Green (17:09.438) I so wish I could say I put it on my calendar. I've tried that for a couple of years and I don't. Things come up, but I look at my week and know where there might be a day where it's better to slot that, but I don't say that I've ever actually put it on my calendar as much as I have the best intention to do that.

Rick Sola (17:11.384) Hahaha

Rick Sola (17:28.768) And in shoulding, as you say, there's so many events in a school year. There's so many events that every school has. And we are we need to be at so many of those. But you're right. There are some things that I think are probably OK for a building principal not to attend or not to be able to attend. What would you say to a year one, year two principal who's really riding that that principal guilt?

roller coaster and they are putting in the time aside from you know first year principal you're going to put in some extra time anyway but what would you say to them to kind of help them build some perspective around that.

Stacey Green (18:12.088) I think a lot of it is just the wisdom I'm sharing here has taken a lot of time and I've had a lot of great people pour into me that have allowed me to grow and share. so it depends on probably what the specific instance might be. But right now I have two amazing first year principals that I'm mentoring through the Kelly. And then I've got a couple of just that live nearby that have other mentors that they'll seek out the suggestions or just want to talk through something. And a of times that's what it is. But the advice I give all of them is always that remembering to take care of yourself and especially

these spring breaks or Christmas breaks. Yes, we know there's some things that are going to need to be done, but to not forget to take care of yourself and to put those people closest to you to remind them how important they are to you. And so I think that's the biggest thing. But then there's lots of things that come up that just on individual conversations that not so much more of a coaching role, but more of a mentoring just to continue to do this work long time. Because right now their energy is high. You and I remember that first year you just go in and you're ready to tackle everything.

and do all things, so I think that. So for me it's even a text message I sent on Friday to all three of those individuals that I have a lot of contact with just to remind them, you what are you doing this week for you or what are you doing this week with family to remind them to set that priority.

Rick Sola (19:28.41) And what a great example from you to them to be able to demonstrate how you do that yourself, but that it is important and it really helps assist the longevity of being able to be in the position that is as demanding as a building principle. So, you know, I love that. Your plans for next year.

Have you gotten that far yet or plans maybe for I don't know when your when contract is off in Stockton but when when when that final building walkout occurs what's next.

Stacey Green (20:02.552) So contract ends June 30th. We have an amazing trip planned to Alaska for it ended up being this August. We tried and tried for July and for some reason it wouldn't work, but it happens to be the first week of school. So I think that was supposed to be. So with a couple of couples, we'll do that. But then I'm in the middle of a couple of conversations with some next steps. And hopefully by the end of March here, I'm one of those will I'll be able to share a little bit more about what I'm going to do. It'll be part time. That's what I've been seeking. We have three grandchildren and one of them will start school.

school this fall and I want to be able to go to her events and be the Gigi I want to be. We have some aging parents who need some hospital visits, some ongoing care that I can be more free to do that work. So part-time position is perfect. I still have a lot of passion. As some people would say, I'm still pretty young, so I'm not ready to hang up completely. The work that I feel so passionate about, so I'm excited about some next steps. Both of those opportunities look pretty exciting. So just to discern through that next right thing and for what the next

some room will look like for me.

Rick Sola (21:04.634) Well, you mentioned you mentioned just a bit ago about a research project that you all need to tackle here. Yeah. So there you go. You know, last last year I had a couple principals on they were retiring and one of them he actually intentionally scheduled a trip for August to be away. He had opened an elementary school. He was principal there for 25 years and he scheduled a trip to be away during

Stacey Green (21:10.362) That too, I don't know.

Rick Sola (21:33.988) know, pre-service, you know, when teachers return as kind of a distraction in a way because he felt just like you, comfortable with the decision. It's the right decision. It's the right time. But also, you know, it's a love. It's a passion. And so maybe being in Alaska in August will just be the perfect remedy for distraction for you. Not to mention a beautiful place to be.

Stacey Green (21:58.425) We kept laughing. We tried so hard to make it be in July and it just kept falling back. I was like, okay, we'll quit fighting this and go, that's where I'm supposed to be in August. And I agree. I think that, and I live in a very small community, so the grocery store stops, the church, all those things are, everything's right under your nose. So that'll take a little bit of getting used to. But I tell students all the time, I'm going to still be cheering you on. I'm going to be at your events. I'm going to be able to still have that contact with you. Do summer story hour.

So those things that I still got to keep those kids in front of me and continue to push them to the best that they can be and staff the same way. But also carefully remembering that the next principal coming in to be able to make sure that I'm doing that in a way that they can have the leadership that they need and to lead in a different way that I've led. And I think that's the most important part is that I'm able to do what I can do but stay out of the way as well.

Rick Sola (22:54.97) What has you most excited here in the next couple months as you push through May?

Stacey Green (23:03.17) I think spring is just, fun. mean, the weather is nicer. We'll have track meets. We have some amazing music programs coming up that I'm excited to attend. So just making the most of all of it. And the evaluations are done. So I can get back into more of those informal walkthroughs and encouraging and being there and giving some feedback to staff. So I think that's the biggest part about the spring.

Rick Sola (23:16.388) Yeah.

Rick Sola (23:26.338) And then of course, I imagine there will be some sort of recognition here at the end for you and as if you could picture kind of a spectrum. And I don't know if you're fan of The Office, the TV show, but where you're at on.

Michael Scott departure where you actually leave a day before you're supposed to so that you avoid everything and you avoid all that or you're the one in charge of your your own Farewell or anything. What do you expect the last week or so to look like for you?

Stacey Green (24:04.302) I would sneak out the back door. I would just assume not have that fanfare and all that, but yet I know there'll be something and I'll enjoy every moment of that. My daughter actually is the one who's, I think she's still doubting I'm going to pull this off because she said a year ago, there's no way you can do this. But in spite of her, I'm going to show her that there's strong women we can make change and move on to those next right things. So I think she's talking about some fun things planned as well. that will, it'll be good. And I've got a lot, I love the people. I, again, just this last week, I have

about five or six principles that we have a text chat and just being able to network with them. And so all those people that have fed into me and that I've been able to feed, I hope that I get a way to acknowledge them in this process as well.

Rick Sola (24:46.468) Well, truly, as I mentioned, know, the passion and the care, the love you have for the profession, it's totally, totally conveyed here on this show. just in the few years that are.

our careers have crossed path. It's something I've picked up on. It's something I've appreciated and has been an influence to me. And I'm really excited for you. And I know that those next steps will be really, really fun and exciting and that you'll still be, like you said, you'll still be around. You're still gonna be engaged and you're still gonna be involved. But I really appreciate you taking the time today to share.

some reflection on where you're at in this process in March with a quarter left to go and because there are other principals that are sitting in the same position as you right now and so thank you for sharing all that today and thank you for all the support you've given to not just this show but to me you've reached out to me just throughout the few years here that we've been on the kpa board together and i just so appreciate you and want to wish you all the best moving forward

Stacey Green (25:55.481) Thank you, Rick. I appreciate your kind words and thank you for leading so well. And that's what it's gonna take is me feeding into those of you that are at the cusp of that really kind of that beginning. know how many years for you remind me.

Rick Sola (26:06.074) This is my 15th year as an administrator. Yeah.

Stacey Green (26:08.236) year. So you're well into this. So yeah, but just continue all of you that are doing the great things for our profession across the state, but also across the country, because we have to keep advocating for ourselves and the role that we have and ultimately our students. So thank you for your work and for having me on here and allowing me to be real.

Rick Sola (26:26.252) Absolutely. And have a wonderful rest of your spring break. hopefully now you can get back to spring break now that we're wrapping this up.

Stacey Green (26:35.618) Thank you. I'm not sure it looks so fun. It looks like a lot of lists to get things accomplished at home, probably like most of you.

Rick Sola (26:42.442) Absolutely. Stacey, take care and we'll see you around.

Stacey Green (26:46.265) Thank you.

Connect with the panel (email): Shelby Muha Liz Stover-Gebhardt Jacob Burkholder Tiffany Hampe Dr. Todd Dain

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Future Kansas Principals 04:20 Motivations for Pursuing Administration 10:21 Excitement and Nervousness in Leadership 16:40 Balancing Work and Life as an Administrator 22:04 Challenges and Growth in Administrative Roles 24:43 Navigating the Fear of Mistakes in Leadership 25:57 Understanding the Complexity of School Administration 26:58 Valuing Administrative Mentorship and Leadership Traits 28:37 The Importance of Supportive Leadership in Education 30:10 Creating a Positive and Inclusive School Culture 32:06 The Role of Collaboration and Trust in Administration 35:31 Aspiring Administrators: What Makes You Stand Out? 40:34 The Value of Networking and Advocacy in Education

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Rick Sola (00:01.602) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas Principles, or more appropriately today, Future Kansas Principles. I'm joined by four aspiring administrators here in Kansas who have either completed or are currently working toward their administration license. Today we'll visit with them to learn about the administrator influences in their lives, the traits that they admire in administrators.

and why on earth they are interested in joining the so-called dark side of education. Looking forward to hearing all about that. And it sounds like we may have a dog in the audience as well, which is awesome. Big dog lover here. So anyway, but first let's meet our panel of future administrators. First of all, we have Shelby Mouha, 20 years teaching family and consumer science in Kansas. She taught in nine years, smaller districts outside of Manhattan, Kansas before moving back to Kansas City.

for the last 11 years and the last 10 years in Olathe Public Schools. She got her bachelor's and master's from Kansas State University and admin license from Baker University. Welcome, Shelby.

Shelby Muha (01:13.236) Thanks so much. Happy to be here.

Rick Sola (01:16.076) All right. And then we have Elizabeth Stover at Gebhart. It goes by Liz. And she earned her MSSL and BA from Baker University, her ninth year of teaching social studies at the high school level at Shawnee Mission South High School, where you're also the head football or softball coach and assistant volleyball coach. Is that correct? Well, welcome, Liz. Glad to have you on here.

Liz Stover (01:24.115) Yep.

Liz Stover (01:41.597) That is correct, yeah.

Liz Stover (01:45.651) Thank you so much for having me.

Rick Sola (01:47.672) and Jacob Burkholder in his seventh year as an educator and currently teaching Project Lea the Way engineering courses at Piper High School in Kansas City, Kansas. Jacob is certified in social studies and technology and engineering education, holds a bachelor's of science degree from Kansas State University, and is pursuing a master's in educational leadership at Baker University. Welcome, Jacob.

Jacob Burkholder (02:10.963) Thank you, Rick. I appreciate you having me on.

Rick Sola (02:13.666) And then finally, Tiffany Hampy, I'm sorry, we just even, I even got that clarified right before we went on. And she has been a teacher for 21 years, eight of those years being spent teaching middle school math, and the other 13 have been high school math with geometry, Algebra II and Algebra III, and attended University of New Mexico for her bachelor's degree in electrical engineering, and eventually her master's degree in secondary education.

Tiffany Hampe (02:18.661) I clarify right now.

Rick Sola (02:42.112) and recently finished certification through Baker University for building level leadership. Welcome Tiffany.

Tiffany Hampe (02:48.377) Thank you. Also, was my dog. Leave it to them to bark at the most inopportune moment.

Rick Sola (02:50.904) Oh, was a that's perfect. Totally good. And then I do want to welcome back to the show and longtime supporter Dr. Todd Dane, principal of Shawnee-Mitchell South High School, in a SSP board of directors, USA, Kansas, KPA board of directors, 2023, Kansas principal of year, and so many other things, dad to three awesome kids husband to an even better Dr. Dane. Right.

Todd Dain (03:19.246) It's true. Yes.

Rick Sola (03:21.292) And he'll be support here today on the admin side of things. And was also instrumental in the assembly of this panel, in this panel. So welcome, Todd.

Todd Dain (03:31.49) Thank you so much for doing this and putting this together, Rick. I'm looking forward to this discussion.

Rick Sola (03:37.91) Yeah, it's gonna be great. And this is our first time for Cool Coffee to have so many people in the virtual studio here. So really excited for this, but also really excited to have a group of educators who are in the chair of aspiring to be administrators. And I think there's so much value in remembering if you're listening to this and you're an active administrator, remembering how hungry you felt at that point where you were

aspiring and pursuing these administrative jobs. But I really can't wait to hear what it is about your current administrators or administrators in your path that you really admired. And so we'll get right to it here. And as we go through this and as points come up, certainly all of you feel welcome to interject. This is not a job interview. It's a conversation. so and then Dr. Dayne, of course, anything that you have certainly feel free. But we'll start

with where we were at the initial top of the show here is, what is it that is driving you toward administration? Shelby, we'll start with you. What is it that is just tugging you to get into administration?

Shelby Muha (04:51.219) Wow, great question. Happy to start us off. You know, thankfully you did send us these questions ahead of time, so we had some time to really think about this. because I think if you were to ask other educators today, are you crazy? Why are you? Why do you want to be an administrator? And I think one of the things that's really focused on my mind is

Tiffany Hampe (05:13.495) that's really focused on MIME is I really believe that education has the ability to change the trajectory.

Shelby Muha (05:17.573) I really believe that education has the ability to change the trajectory for students. And I believe that, you know, just like year 20 and year one. And so I've seen as a classroom teacher the ability to make a meaningful impact in students. And I think the thing that's most appealing to me at the administrative level is that you get to have a greater sphere of influence with kids, with adults.

And sometimes teachers need to be reminded that education has the power to change lives. And I think as an administrator, you have an opportunity to do that.

Rick Sola (05:59.107) That's awesome. Liz, we'll go to you, but Todd, to that, is she crazy? I mean, that was the rhetorical question that she led off with, but is there a crazy element to administration?

Tiffany Hampe (06:07.941) Bye.

Todd Dain (06:12.812) Yeah, you have to be a little bit crazy to do this gig. And it's got to be about the kids, you know. And I think that's what keeps me in this chair. I've had some opportunities to kind of move away from the building at a district level. And it's the everyday interaction you have with young people that still keeps me doing this gig.

Rick Sola (06:14.712) Ha

Rick Sola (06:35.852) Liz, what about you? What's driving you toward administration?

Liz Stover (06:39.271) Yeah, I do want to echo what Shelby said. So even just this last week, I've been really fortunate that Dr. Dane has allowed me to be an administrative intern. And just even this past week, the number of questions of, you sure you want to do this? I know Dr. Dane, you were there last week and it got a little chaotic towards the end, just with the long weekend. So, but I am sure I really love this idea of being able to have a.

bigger impact on kids and being able to advocate for them. My background, especially with my younger siblings, spending a lot of time with special education and being able to teach for this, all the different levels that I have in social studies is really just what can I do to have that bigger stage to advocate and make sure that kids get what they need and are supported in every way.

Rick Sola (07:29.88) So you're an admin intern right now, so you're getting a little bit of real world experience. Have you had a moment of kind of an aha, like, this is administration? Like, you you can sit in the classroom all day long, you can get thrown scenarios like crazy, but you actually experience it you're like, did you ever have one of those moments?

Liz Stover (07:51.304) Yeah, I think even just this school year, it's happened a few times just to sit back and be able to realize that just the number, because we have a few assistant principals and they're always getting pulled all these different directions. It's putting out one fire here. They have a meeting over here. There's an IEP. So just being able to see that kind of in real time. So, yeah, I think just a few times this year.

Shelby Muha (08:10.771) you

Rick Sola (08:17.346) Jacob, what do you think? What's driving you toward administration?

Jacob Burkholder (08:18.643) Yes. So I think if you'd asked me six years ago if I wouldn't be an administrator, I would have maybe laughed. And then I came from a building where I did not feel super supported, and I came into this incredible district.

And I've just seen incredible leadership. And as I was looking at how I want to advance my career, I was willing to get master's. I was looking at it, and the doors that I thought this would open was something I was much more interested in. And as I look at education, so much of the frustrations, think, in education are outside the classroom. And so how can we build systems that empower people? And I think that's a big aspect of it is just sometimes we can forget that our people are most valuable.

So our teachers, our staff, our students. And as long as we're like student-centered moving forward and with our choices, we're gonna make good choices.

Rick Sola (09:12.408) That's awesome. I'm going to ask you the same question there that I asked Liz, but have you had any moments yet through any real world experiences that were kind of eye opening and maybe shed some light on something that you wouldn't have seen if you weren't a little deeper into the office?

Shelby Muha (09:14.419) Thank

Tiffany Hampe (09:19.301) you

Shelby Muha (09:27.74) you

Jacob Burkholder (09:29.575) There so I've.

I'm doing my field experience this semester as well. And there have been two events. One of them was the admin on duty for a basketball tournament for freshmen. And I was the only Piper teacher in the building. And one of the other coaches came up and asked me a question. like, wow, this is real. I have to have the answer for this coach to support them. And was like, let me figure that out real quick and get you what you need. And then another one, I was involved, unfortunately, in an event where we had to suspend a student.

Shelby Muha (09:38.675) Thank

Jacob Burkholder (10:00.671) just the very real conversation that student had with us. I was really surprised when the student broke down crying. We had a very real, tender conversation. And just to see how there were consequences, but it ultimately, I think, helped that student and their process through that conversation.

Rick Sola (10:26.552) Yeah, that's really good. When you become an administrator, you automatically have all the answers, isn't that right, Dr. Dane? Like, you just automatically know the answer.

Todd Dain (10:38.348) Yeah, absolutely.

I've been in this long enough where I kind of know those answers when they come to me, but I do remember all those times when people would come to me with questions and I wouldn't have the answers, but you you work your tail off to try to find out and and that's what it's about and the follow through that comes with it. So yeah, it's sometimes we've as I've been in it. You forget how many of those quick responses, quick decisions that you make in just one day.

Rick Sola (11:10.658) Yeah, sometimes owning that you don't yet know and like Dr. Dane said, the follow-up is key. You follow up, you don't have to know every answer, but the follow-up is critical. All right, so Tiffany, what's driving you toward administration?

Tiffany Hampe (11:24.837) Yeah, similar to Jacob. I think if you would have asked me five or six years ago, I, in fact, my dad has always pushed me to do this. And I was like, no, I'm good being a teacher. I have no desire to be an administrator. And then similar, I went into a school where I feel like my admin is exceptional and really has elicited kind of that, oh, this is the type of change that you can make not only with kids, but also with the adults in your building. And that really got me.

And I have older kids now. I have two boys, one is 20, one is 17. And so I'm not being pulled at home so much. And it just felt like the right time. I don't know. I feel like I'm ready for a change, ready for some challenge. Want to make a difference in a different capacity, adults and kids. And just having admin that are really inspiring has really pushed me to do this.

Rick Sola (12:18.456) That's awesome. And we'll come back to some of our favorite administrator traits with people, but Tiffany, sticking with you here, what has you really excited about the idea of sitting in an admin chair? And then what has you also really nervous about it?

Tiffany Hampe (12:35.685) Well, I'm really excited to transfer into a role where, you know, I feel like as a teacher, especially in Mays, Kansas, for the most part, I'm dealing with very well-behaved kids. Our population is pretty low in behavior issues. And so I want to extend this into kids that are struggling behaviorally, which is what I saw a lot in my field experience, just dealing with kids. I was very surprised at how many of them have drug.

and alcohol issues that they deal with. like Liz was saying, how many different directions they're being pulled at all times of the day. I think every teacher would admit to sitting in their classroom and saying, what do they do all day? I mean, seriously, what are they up there doing? Because it doesn't seem like much until you're actually up there and witness it firsthand. And then you're like, I understand. So I think typically I deal with kids that are compliant. And so I think

making a difference. have a really good rapport with all my kiddos and I just feel like that's a strength of mine. So I'm excited to see how that transfers into kids that maybe struggle a little bit more, need a little bit more support. And then most nervous. I work, my son is going to be a senior next year. So I have no interest in leaving the building that I'm at currently. So, and I love that building so much. It's like a family to me that if I were to accept an admin position right now,

it would only be in this building. And that's just because of what's happening in my current life situation. And so I think the switch to working with people that have been my colleagues and having to change from them being more like peers to now I'm in a more leadership position has me pretty nervous. And that's probably my biggest concern right now is just how to make that switch as authentic as possible and as the least awkward as possible, I guess.

Rick Sola (14:33.752) I see a lot of head nodding there when you mentioned going from classroom teacher to more in the leadership role and working with peers and Todd, have any thoughts on that going from classroom teacher to then in an administrative role in that same building?

Shelby Muha (14:35.059) Yes.

Todd Dain (14:52.718) Yeah, so you know, I was fortunate enough to be a classroom teacher for a lot of years. I was a teacher for 20 years and I was a head football coach for 14 years and had an incredible mentor and Dr. Gwen Posse that kind of pulled me aside when I was 40 and said, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? And so, you know, she, she was incredible for me to go through that process and learn, but she created a

position for me that allowed me to kind of transition in administrative role. And one of the things that I learned full disclosure here is that whether or not you really feel like you change your relationships, the perception automatically changes with it. And I remember walking down the hallway one morning with two colleagues that I knew had a really

Shelby Muha (15:39.859) Mm-hmm.

Todd Dain (15:48.258) positive and strong relationship with. I'd worked with them for a number of years side by side and walked down the hall and said, good morning girls, I'm so excited to see you. And the word girls was.

received by them in a way that was condescending and that was not my intention at all. It was 100 % out of affection for those people and those professionals and who they were. But because I was in a different role, they saw it as condescending. And so I had to backtrack and apologize and say, you know, I think you are smart and strong and are wonderful, strong women. And I never wanted them to feel like that I was ever

condescending to them. But it was just it was an eye-opener for me because in some ways I didn't feel like my relationship with them had changed.

But in their eyes, it did. And I think that's an important piece to understand when you kind of step into this role, whether you like it or not, people are going to perceive you in that role. I still kind of think of myself as a kid at heart. And sometimes in my mind, I'm still 17 and try to relate to young people and have fun in what we do. But at the same time, you have to understand that

Shelby Muha (16:46.739) and

Todd Dain (17:13.742) that's a shift. And so that was a big transition for me and a wonderful learning experience with friends that I got to learn in a safe place.

Rick Sola (17:25.718) Yeah, that's a really great example. I was a little different. I started out a building, an administration that I really had very little connections with. But that same sentiment took me back a little bit because that title, whether you think about it that way or not, the title can change the way you're viewed by staff, by students, parents. And it's something to kind of look

grapple with and learn how to manage. like Todd said, in some ways be careful, but also like it's just something you've got to be aware of to some degree. So let's see, Jacob, let's go to you. What has you excited and nervous?

Shelby Muha (18:04.571) and

Jacob Burkholder (18:10.267) So as I've worked through these courses, something that I've really enjoyed is thinking about the big picture and just systems, which...

is I guess I'm little nerdy about now. But this summer I actually had the opportunity to serve as a program leader at Scout Camp. And in that role I was serving as the instructional leader for our staff to make sure our staff was delivering a good camping experience to our kids. And that was honestly not something I had been super excited about.

just academically, but now having been that role to see that that was one of the bigger impacts and that just felt like I was empowering powering my staff to go and lift up the kids and like have that amazing experience and In a lot of ways, I think that's some of the most important part of leadership I think one of the things I'm more nervous about is I I know all the field experience I've done

I see everything I've been doing. I'm like, this is really interesting stuff. This is stuff I want to be a part of. But I look at the hours that they work. I'm like, ooh, that's a lot. And I'm at a point where I want to start a family. So that's something I've been thinking about, like how do you have a successful work-life balance?

Rick Sola (19:26.38) Yeah, I think that's a really something to think about for sure. And I'm at the middle school, Todd's at the high school. I think our hours are probably a little different. Anything that you would want to speak to that on Dr. Dane?

Todd Dain (19:44.194) Yeah, you know, somebody has asked me in a previous podcast about that. And one of the things that I come back to is, you know, my role is a little bit different than that. I was my last year as a teacher, I was teaching five sections of college prep English. I was the head football coach at a six day high school. I was the head track coach at a six day high school. And the principal called me in and asked me to be the department chair for the English department.

And I just said, can't do all of this and do it well and do it right, do it the way it needs to be done. And so when I think back to the amount of time that I was dedicating to all those things, it's a lot less time now as an administrator that I put in compared to the years when I was a head football coach and a head track coach, just dedicating those hours. The one thing that I would tell you, Jacob,

Jacob Burkholder (20:39.624) Yes.

Todd Dain (20:39.758) and all of you aspiring administrators is that the one thing as an administrator, you have a little more control over your clock, right? So your school day is 740 to 240 or eight to three or whatever it is. you've got a little bit of autonomy on your day. Your day isn't run by the bell.

Shelby Muha (21:01.139) you

Todd Dain (21:01.452) hour by hour. The other thing that you have a little more control over is all the extra duties and the supervision night duties that you have. it's a considerable amount of hours that we spend at basketball games. After this Zoom call, I'm headed to a Lathie's for a basketball game tonight.

And so you have a lot of those night duties, but you have some input and control over those nights, right? So I know ahead of time that homecoming week, I'm gonna be out four nights. But there may be other weeks when I can be more in control of those hours. So my youngest daughter just finished her collegiate soccer career playing soccer at Northwest Missouri State, and she was.

all conference and team captain and all those things. So one of the things for me over the past four years was that I wanted to make sure that I was attending all of her soccer games. So I could adjust those night duties and we can work together as a team to make sure that I could be at all of her games. And so that meant that I worked soccer on Thursday night and soccer on Tuesday night and

Wrestling on Wednesday or whatever it was so that I could have the open time on Friday and Saturday to go watch her play soccer so So I would say that I there is a lot of time commitment number one. It's less than you spend as a teacher and a coach and As a teacher and a coach you don't have control over your clock But as an administrator you have a lot of time commitment, but you have a little more control over your clock

You have a little more control over what nights you work, what weekends you work, your day, you know, eight to three during your day. If you have other things, family issues, you don't have to get a sub if you got to take your son to the doctor. Right? You don't have a substitute administrator, whereas, you know, as a teacher, you probably have to find a substitute if you have to take your son to the doctor in the afternoon. Right? So it's a little bit different perspective, a little bit different.

Shelby Muha (22:44.647) and

Todd Dain (23:14.668) and that you have a little more autonomy as administrator in that role. So I talk too much.

Rick Sola (23:19.768) And I bet lot of the things that you're all doing are already prepping you for that kind of schedule. On a smaller scale, I was a high school coach. I was a middle school coach at the same time. A lot going on, finishing my masters for administration, all those things were going on. I found that it just prepped me for when that time came and being the role, you start budgeting your time a little differently. And I love that the way you described that.

Shelby Muha (23:26.845) it.

Rick Sola (23:49.113) Todd of just managing your own clock, a little bit more control of your clock, but that's where those shadow experiences can be really valuable. I was able to shadow the AD at a high school here in town and it was eye opening for a lot of really good things. really helped me think through different decisions that were potentially on the horizon for me. So Liz, we'll jump to you. What has you super excited and super nervous about being an administrator?

Shelby Muha (24:00.82) you

Liz Stover (24:16.903) Yeah, I was really looking forward to this question. One of the things that I talk to my players about is, because I coach softball and volleyball, this feeling of being nervous and excited is really the same. So being able to take a step back and really process why exactly you're feeling that way. So for me, the answer is the same is that I'm.

I'm really excited for a challenge of being an administrator. I'm really excited for those unknowns every day. So right now I can make my lesson plans and I have a really strong feeling of what my day is going to look like with a couple of things here and there, just being ready to pivot. But this idea of being able to challenge myself for something new. When I was doing my master's degree, I was doing my master's, I was planning my wedding, I was my first season as a head coach and now

Everything just kind of feels like it's moving slow. So I feel like I'm really ready for that challenge and just to kind of take another step up.

Rick Sola (25:15.48) It's awesome, ready for the challenge. saw again, a lot of nodding heads there, which is awesome to see. Shelby to you, excited and nervous.

Shelby Muha (25:19.345) Thanks.

Shelby Muha (25:23.877) Yeah, well, Liz, I like to combine scared and excited and call it skited because I think that I am skited as well. I am, you know, of course curious about how am going to handle those intense moments, right? Like Jacob alluded to that moment of like, I'm the guy now, right? Like I need to have the answers to this. And

I think it'll be so good for me after 20 years in the classroom to be forced to learn something new. And I think that's been one of the most exciting things about being, you know, going through the Baker Building Licensure Program is that I was kind of hit this accelerated growth curve. And I was like, man, this is really awesome. Like, this is really cool. And I really like this. And I want to continue learning. And I want to continue growing. that.

I'm excited to continue learning. I am nervous I'm going to mess up. The consequences are a little different on a more public stage. I feel like everything really matters, right? All those important conversations that you have with students and with parents and with staff. I want to be really intentional in those

those offshoot moments that Dr. Dane mentioned of like those little side comments of like, shoot, I need to backpedal and fix that. I feel like as an administrator, things just carry more weight. The words that you say and every conversation from with a classified staff member to a kid to a certified staff member, like your words matter all the time.

That's just a new way of operating. So yeah, there's so many things, so many skited things that I keep thinking about.

Rick Sola (27:28.088) That is a new word for me, but I like it. I remember very distinctly the fear of messing up and like in my head, I just kept thinking, I don't want the building to come to a grinding halt because of some bonehead decision I made or didn't do or something. the reality is the school is going to go on. It always does. But how you

correct the mistakes, you backtrack, you own it, you apologize, show humility, all those things can help with the overall buy-in of working with the people that you're with all the time. I appreciate the honesty of, yeah, I just don't want to mess up, because I think that's a very real feeling for being in the chair. I don't want to mess up now, and I've been doing it for a while. But especially early on, it can feel like things move really quick.

Shelby Muha (28:16.723) you

Rick Sola (28:26.916) One thing I appreciated earlier when Tiffany was talking again, there's a lot of nodding heads. wish in some ways I wish this was a video podcast so you can see that. But when she was talking about the surprise when you get into the office and some of the conversations you're having and perhaps even that feeling sometimes like, what is really going on in the office? But you all seem to really kind of like nod like almost emphatically. And I guess I'll just ask for another nod. But

Am I accurate that you all have had that experience where you're like, like, wow, like this was bigger than I thought, or there's a lot more going on behind the curtain than I ever could have imagined.

Tiffany Hampe (29:08.632) Yeah, 100%.

Jacob Burkholder (29:09.543) Very much so.

Rick Sola (29:11.266) Yeah. That was...

Shelby Muha (29:11.473) Yes, yeah, things are very real behind that curtain.

Liz Stover (29:12.85) Yeah.

Rick Sola (29:17.452) For an audio podcast, that was a really poorly worded question because all we're seeing is everyone nodding and you know, but no, I enjoyed that. So question here, and I'm really interested in this and this would be a time to really name drop part of this podcast is we always brag on our people, but you all have administrators that have been in your path. We just heard about Dr. Posse who was in Dr. Dane's path way back in probably safe to say was trajectory changing for Dr. Dane back then.

Tiffany Hampe (29:22.348) You

Tiffany Hampe (29:31.012) you

Rick Sola (29:47.129) Who are those administrators? But more specifically, what is it you appreciate about them? What's a trait that they have demonstrated? Maybe you're with them now or maybe it's somebody in the past. But what are some of those traits, administrative traits that you really have grown to appreciate? let's start, we'll go, Jacob, we'll start with you on this one.

Jacob Burkholder (30:09.043) I've been really lucky since I've been at Piper with the leadership we've had here. And that's something I really appreciate is just the vision that leadership has and the desire to get us somewhere better.

And if there's a problem, it's like, OK, how do we fix this? And so there's a discussion around that. Specifically, my building, I really appreciated working with all the administrators, but especially Kelsey and Selmy and Bobby Cave. And when they found out I was starting this program, they both would start to show me some other things and have discussions about, hey, what do you think of this situation? And so was like informal coaching before I even started the field experience. And that was just really beneficial.

opening and just having someone to go talk to and like spitball ideas off of I'll know something like how would how would you expect to handle this situation and just having that soundboard to learn from.

Rick Sola (31:08.322) So you just mentioned two people I have a connection with and I bring it up not just to show that, I've got a connection with, but I have found over and over and over again that education for as big as we are, there are so many six degrees of separation. So Kelsey and Salmi, I worked with her mom at a previous school, Prairie Trail. Her mom was the nurse there. then Bobby Cave, I currently work with his sister here at the school.

Jacob Burkholder (31:12.531) Okay.

Rick Sola (31:38.275) Chisholm Trail where I'm principal. And I think it's really important to realize there's connections all around. And you just mentioned two incredible administrators, incredible people. Unfortunately, sometimes when names get brought up, like in an interview or a reference, and you're hearing someone say something that's not as positive, you just never know who you're sitting across from. You never would have known these connections and...

Jacob Burkholder (31:40.957) Awesome.

Rick Sola (32:05.976) I think that's a big caution, especially for people interviewing for any job. Be careful how you talk about people, you know. We all have connections out there, but yeah, two people that I know are very highly regarded where you're out there. Let's go to Tiffany.

Tiffany Hampe (32:25.407) Yes, so I don't know how well you guys know the area, but I work for Dr. Chris Botts right now. He's amazing. He's got an amazing leadership team that he's kind of created. He is the first principal that I've ever worked for that really inspired growth, reflection, but also at the end of the day makes every single staff member feel like their family comes first. And that was really, really important to me.

I don't know, I just feel like I've grown a lot and I don't feel like people take that for granted. Like I don't think that they or use that to their advantage that he says your family should always come first so they're taking off all the time. It almost does the opposite where it created this culture of we all support each other and I'm gonna push you to be your best and do your best but also if there are things going on outside of school, please handle those because that's most important to everyone in the building.

And then, you know, he's awesome and he's also had really strong women leadership that I look up to. Morgan Marsh, Amy Zuido, and even Sonia Tice, they have all been admin there while I've been there. And I think it's hard to be a woman in administration. think, you know, we're still kind of trying to forge our path there. And, you know, a lot of times when women come across very...

stern and strict, they're given that capital B word. And so I think the women in this building show a good balance of loving kids, but also holding them to a high standard. And that's been really nice to see. So yeah, it's just a very positive culture, very welcoming culture, very community-based. I think everybody feels supported and that's been really important to me.

Shelby Muha (34:09.779) Thank

Rick Sola (34:17.752) It's awesome. Yeah, love that kind of firm but respectful approach there. Let's see. Liz, have we heard? Liz, we'll go to you on this one.

Liz Stover (34:27.425) Yeah. Yeah. So I actually feel really fortunate that every school, every district that I've been in, even growing up. So Dr. Dane, you mentioned Dr. Paz here a little bit ago. Dr. Yurkovich, those were really strong female leaders to look up to, just even going through middle school, high school, and then beyond. So when I first started teaching at Washburn Rural in Topeka, I was really impressed by the team that

Ed Rains and Kyle Reed had for us out there. Everything when I initially got into teaching was very much like a coaching, a mentorship. And that

I think really formed who I am just as a teacher and some of my kind of long-term beliefs about what we can do as administrators and how we can work together. And then to jump right into Shiny Mission South with Dr. Dane and everyone that we have there. So for me, I feel like I kind of gravitate towards principals who are visible, people who are consistent in administrating. So whether that's the students, the teachers, that sort of thing, which is what I feel like.

Dr. Dane, we've been really strong with it, South, but just even the culture there. For me to immediately come in, feel welcomed, and then to feel trusted with the administrators to take on some of these leadership roles and be able to go in and ask questions, ask just for clarification. I might not be directly involved in some scenario, but I can go in and say, I noticed that we did this, how-

Like how do we navigate that? How do we make those decisions and being able to be trusted with that information, even to go as far as to making decisions on my own and to be able to talk through that I think is really formative right now.

Rick Sola (36:20.344) That's awesome. And you know, when it comes down to making big decisions, there's always people to call, you know, and I know Dr. Dane, you've got a team out there. You guys are a strong team. There's always somebody either in your building or outside your building. I know that Dr. Dane's a person I could call if I needed to, but there's that network there. Shelby, finish us off on this question. What do you appreciate most about your favorite administrators?

Shelby Muha (36:47.228) Yeah, I think the best example I can think about this is when it was 2017 and Olathe West was getting ready to open and it is the last high school that Olathe has built and it's amazing and I still work here and there was a moment where as a family consumer science teacher, the two other teachers in our department, we had to like get all of our stuff, right? So we had to like

unpack tons and tons of tools and mean curriculum equipment. mean just like moving into a giant brand new 6A house, right? And so the principal who opened this building, Jay Novacek, walking through the Commons and I had a quick question about something small and I was like, yeah, we had a question about something and he was like, yeah.

He knew exactly what I was talking about. He could tell me that it was like when it was ordered, when it was going to arrive and like all of these things. And I remember thinking like, wow, like he is really, really on it. And as a teacher, it made me feel like what I was bringing to this team as a brand new building was really valuable.

and that I wasn't going to be kind of like forgotten in the shuffle, right? And if you're, you're putting the time in, because this was July, right? So we were like giving up the end of our summer to go unpack our giant new house. And I felt so taken care of by him. And I have, you know, since since that moment. And I think that Jay specifically is someone who will go to bat for you.

and he will defend you as long as you're defendable and he will always come when you call. I think that's one of the things our entire administrative team here that I've always, always so appreciated. Megan Black, Pat Butler, Josh Humphrey, Dr. Aniline Morris, they come when I call and I feel like they trust me, they trust my decision-making and if I need help, they're gonna show up.

Shelby Muha (39:04.624) I have to, you know, the thing that I, when I was choosing a mentor in my Baker cohort, I wanted to pick somebody who I knew didn't think like I did. And I wanted to learn and I have learned a ton from Dr. Annalyn Morris. And she is the most innovative and creative and inspirational people that I have had the opportunity to work with. And I have learned so much.

to the point where I'm like, man, like what new thing are we going to have to learn? Because learning is hard, right? It's uncomfortable in some way. But she's constantly like encouraging and pushing the envelope and challenging me as a leader and challenging what, you know, I always say that I feel like she creates an image of a more perfect school system.

Like what we could all aspire to be as leaders and how the system could continuously get better.

Rick Sola (40:10.998) I really like your acknowledgement that you chose a mentor who did not think like you.

like you do. And I think how important that is when you're putting together, if you have the opportunity to put together a team, an administrative team, and how important it is to have different perspectives and different thoughts. And, you know, so you can, you can bounce ideas that balance is so critical and it'll help you really think through situations where you've just got blind spots. We all have them, you know, there's different things that you need that other perspective. So I really liked that, that you said that we're going to wrap up with one more question.

And then I'll kick it to doc. Dr. Dane here at the end, but we'll do like a 45 second spiel here This is this is your chance, but you know all of you are aspiring administrators I know Tiffany you got your eyes on one building and one building only next year, but then after that you know all bets are off But why does a building principal who's listening right now? Why would they want to hire you as their assistant principal or principal? and let's start with

Tiffany Hampe (41:03.275) You

Rick Sola (41:15.938) Who would like to start on this one? No pressure here.

Rick Sola (41:22.648) Alright Shelby.

Shelby Muha (41:23.944) Okay. Yeah, this is definitely one I chose to write down because I was like, man, this is an on air interview question. So thanks for the softball, Rick. Just kidding. So I think a building principal who's listening right now would want to hire me because I feel like I'm doing it for the right reasons. I understand the workload and the grunt work or as Jane Novacek calls it, the administrators are the pooper scoopers of the school.

Tiffany Hampe (41:24.695) Hahaha!

Rick Sola (41:35.788) Yeah.

Rick Sola (41:53.218) Ha ha ha.

Shelby Muha (41:54.453) He said this on a day that they all went outside and were like cleaning off the staff cars and student cars when we got an unexpected like four inches of snow. I understand the service required and I respect the privilege and the responsibility that lies within being a building leader. I believe that I can keep the first things first and have a clear idea of what's best for kids.

I also really like people and I know how to communicate and pitch and sell and influence ideas. I love being on a team and I love to collaborate with others. And I know that I don't know everything, but I'm also very much willing to learn, want to grow and want to be great at this.

Rick Sola (42:36.21) Awesome. Very good. Thank you, Shelby, for leading us off. Jacob, let's go to you.

Jacob Burkholder (42:41.779) I love what she said, that was amazing. I think for me, I believe that our greatest resource is our people. so creating a culture where people feel valued is just really important. And I feel like that's something I do really well. And then just having a growth mindset. So I know going into any admin position, I have a lot to learn. And just having that mindset of always saying like,

Tiffany Hampe (42:45.204) Yeah

Jacob Burkholder (43:08.485) What do I need to learn here? How can I learn from this experience so the next time it's better? And just that reflectiveness is really good. And then the ability to collaborate. And I'm not afraid to ask for help when I need it. And I also know that there's times where I just need to make a decision and go with it. And having that mindset, I think, is really important.

Rick Sola (43:32.044) Great. Thank you, Jacob. Tiffany, we'll go over to you.

Tiffany Hampe (43:36.172) Yeah, I'll echo a lot of what's already been said. Obviously, I'm a very reflexional, growth-centered person. Otherwise, I don't feel like I would have gotten here in the first place. And I think just for those reasons, if I were an administrator, that's what I would be looking for. I also just know that I have a really good rapport with kids and can work really well with most kids. So I think that's a huge strength of mine. And most importantly, my son is dating my principal's daughter.

So for that reason alone, he should just hire me, right?

Rick Sola (44:09.496) 100 % yeah. Excellent Liz.

Liz Stover (44:16.839) Alright, those are some answers to follow up. Way to go, guys. Yeah, I really believe that it doesn't matter if it's a team, a business, a school, everyone...

is most successful when we're all unified and working towards the same vision, that same culture. And I really believe that I'm kind of that ultimate teammate. So I'm someone that's there to amplify staff. I'm there to amplify students and help them kind of get to those goals and just show off how great our education system is. So that could be investing in teachers and helping them learn and become an instructional leader that could be

helping kids in accessing resources that they really truly need. And really just kind of being that calm during a storm. I'm a pretty level-headed person. I'm not an up and down person at all. So just to be able to be there and be a consistent voice to support everybody in whatever way I can, whether that's a student, a teacher or the principal.

Shelby Muha (45:14.932) Thanks.

Rick Sola (45:21.686) Well, awesome. Well, thank you to the four of you for those answers. I know you had I gave you these questions at a time, but that's a tough one to answer because you're having to talk about yourself. And that's one of the most uncomfortable things is, you know, kind of tooting our own horns, if you will. But no, I appreciate that. And again, your willingness to be on here. There is a big piece of administration that truly was not on my radar early, early as an administrator and really honestly only.

recently, you know, this is a KPA podcast and my involvement in that has really broadened my my vision statewide and going beyond just where I work. And I thought there's there's no one else better to speak to the value of the network, to the value of connections than Dr. Todd Dane, who's sitting with us right here. And so I want to, Todd, kick it to you a little bit to share a little bit about the value of

of the network that we all have. We've just built a new network here, a six perhaps. You all have my contact information and it's there for the taking, but Dr. Dane, you're deep into it and there's so much that goes beyond that. I think a lot of us new in the position don't realize is there. So I'll turn it over to you.

Shelby Muha (46:32.372) Thank

Todd Dain (46:43.564) Yeah. Thanks, Rick. I do appreciate the opportunity. And I would say that like you, you just kind of get into the role and you start grinding and then, you one day kind of lean up, take a breath and you're voluntold to do all these things. Right. And so honestly, that's, that's kind of how I got into it. I I'm not a political person by nature. I'm not,

someone that that kind of thinks outside my my own. Office here, my own school and my own community sometimes, but the one thing that I've learned in getting involved at the state level in Kansas Principal Association USA, Kansas and then the national level is that there's so much to learn from one another and whether it's being a principal in a large high school in Kansas or being from a small rural community.

or someone that you connect with or I've connected with in New Jersey or New Mexico or across the country, the one thing that I've realized is that we still have so much to learn and so much that we can learn from one another. And so I would tap into that personal network. I think all of us, when we are sharing, everyone that was sharing names of individuals and leaders that we all know.

list and that group grows smaller and smaller because it's a really small circle in education like Rick talked about. So let me first just say that that personal learning network and that professional learning network is something that you continue to tap into, continue to learn from others and rely on each other and still ideas. Some of the best ideas that we've done

during my tenure as an administrator are the ideas that I've stolen from others. so, lean heavily on that, but I also think that it's important to understand the impact of your role. And so, from the Kansas Principles Association perspective, I think it's important that we continue to elevate principal voices at the state level and at the national level. Like I mentioned before,

Todd Dain (49:06.638) I kind of got involved. Someone volunteered to get involved at the state level. And a year ago, I was testifying to the state legislature on what we need to do to advocate for young people. And I've been to Washington, D.C. and had an opportunity to advocate at that level as well. And there's so much that we can do as building leaders and as administrators. There are people at the state level, people at the administration,

federal level that are making decisions about our young people every day. And so many of them have never stepped foot in a school. And so it's really our job, I think, to elevate our voices to make sure that our lawmakers understand that those decisions they make are impacting young people every day. And so that's an overall broad view. But I think that's one of things that I've learned over the years is that

You know, I've had such a rich opportunity to learn as a teacher and a coach and as administrator. And it's really our obligation, our responsibility to give back and to really advocate for young people moving forward. So that's a whole lot in a short time period. And I hope that's what you're targeting there, Rick. But I wanted to plug a little bit of that advocacy piece.

Rick Sola (50:28.6) It's perfect.

No, that's perfect. And I know you're very involved in that and just getting involved with the KPA like I have over the last few years has just really broadened that vision to be able to sit next to somebody in a district that might be a two-way district. And we're sharing the same concerns, the same problems, and we can learn so much from each other. It's just been awesome. You one thing I'll wrap it up with this, there's so many things with administration that

Oftentimes we could joke about I joked at the start of this of joining the dark side or the the really challenging situations the the things that make you laugh the things that make you cry the things that make you you know go crazy whatever At the end of it. There's no better job in education, and I've said it on this podcast before It's a challenging job Todd you said you got to be a little bit crazy to be in here. There might be an element of that

Tiffany Hampe (51:05.453) you

Rick Sola (51:30.764) But it's amazing the connections and the impact that you have potentially put the potential you have to make on kids. It is unbelievable. And yeah, there's challenging times. Yeah, there's there's learning lessons for us, but I wouldn't have it any other way. So but I will say all the best to the four of you and all of your information will be in the show notes. So check it out. If you've got a job opening for an administrator, you've got their connections here.

Tiffany Hampe (51:58.467) Yeah

Shelby Muha (51:59.541) Yeah.

Rick Sola (52:00.481) If you're listening to this, I mean, there's there's like thousands and thousands and thousands of people that listen to this podcast. So maybe maybe not. But but for those who are listening for really great individuals here and truly thank you for your time, because this is not the most comfortable thing to do is to come on a podcast and kind of more or less be vulnerable with an audience out there. So thank you so much for being here today.

Tiffany Hampe (52:09.475) Hahaha!

Todd Dain (52:09.74) Yeah.

Tiffany Hampe (52:28.093) Thank you for having us.

Todd Dain (52:29.038) Rick, I want to add this because we have four aspiring administrators here and all of them talked about being kind of nervous and not wanting to make mistakes and some of those things. And I have to believe that there are listeners out there who are also aspiring administrators. And so here's my one piece of advice. And I think Rick touched on it a little bit also, because I remember stepping into the role and not wanting to make a mistake and all the things.

Jacob Burkholder (52:29.479) Yeah, really appreciate it.

Liz Stover (52:29.897) Thank you so much.

Shelby Muha (52:31.612) It was awesome.

Todd Dain (52:56.98) But in 11 years, I can tell you I make mistakes every day. And the one thing that I've learned is this. You don't have to be perfect. You just have to be real. And when you make a mistake, you own it, and don't make it again. And I think that's the reality of what we try to do every day. don't, I learned that.

Shelby Muha (53:13.364) Mm-hmm.

Todd Dain (53:19.628) That was a huge epiphany for me one or two years into my administrative role is that I didn't have to be perfect every day. I just had to be myself and be honest and authentic. And I think if you do that in this role, people see through all of the fluff that's out there and realize if you truly care about young people, if you truly care about teachers, you truly care about families, then all of that will shine through.

Shelby Muha (53:29.15) me.

Rick Sola (53:48.62) Yeah, that is awesome advice and a perfect tagline, I think, for this episode. But truly awesome. Thank you, Dr. Dane, for taking time. I know you're on your way to a basketball game after this. And to the four of you, all the best. And thanks again for your time today.

Todd Dain (54:00.526) You're served.

Tiffany Hampe (54:05.389) Thank you.

Jacob Burkholder (54:06.227) Thank you.

Liz Stover (54:07.539) Thank you.

Shelby Muha (54:07.583) Thank you so much.

Connect with the guests: Heath Henderson Kurt Seiler

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Principals 01:00 Reflections on the Washington, DC Trip 05:44 Key Advocacy Topics Discussed 10:34 Engagement with Elected Officials 18:10 Personal Experiences and Recognition 27:35 Looking Ahead: Future Opportunities

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Rick Sola (00:01.707) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee. I am here today with Principal Heath Henderson from Skelly Elementary School in El Dorado, Kansas, USD 490. Heath?

Heath Henderson (00:13.102) Hello, hello.

Rick Sola (00:14.529) There you are. And then also principal Kurt Seiler of Independence High School, USD 446. Welcome, Kurt.

Kurt Seiler (00:23.464) Thanks, Rick. Thanks for having us on here.

Rick Sola (00:25.993) and both of whom were just named recently, 2026 Principal of the Year, in their respective level. Congrats and welcome to both of you. And we'll talk more about that here in a bit. But you guys just got back from Washington, DC. We're recording this on February 23rd. And you just took a visit to the nation's capital. And I saw a lot of pictures being put out by KPA. It looked like a really good time. I was able to hear a little bit about it last Friday at our board meeting.

would love for you to be able to share a lot more about the trip here, but how did it go? You went to Washington, DC. How was it?

Heath Henderson (01:04.514) Well, I thought it went pretty fantastic. I think the structure of our organization and the streamlining of the message of what we're trying to advocate for was very, very impactful. And it was eye-opening to me, my first time visiting this conference and having that opportunity. And I'll let Kurt say something here, too.

Kurt Seiler (01:31.858) Yeah, I mean, it far exceeded my expectations. I had heard from, you know, Rick Rivera, who was the then ASSP state rep before me of how beneficial it was to go on these advocacy trips. But I really had no idea of, you know, the level at which we were going to be given the respect. mean, we had two, Representative Schmidt and Representative Mann were in

the hearing with Pam Bondi that day, and they stepped out of that hearing to sit down to talk with us. And I just thought that that was pretty cool that they would give us the respect to step out of a hearing of that magnitude to sit down to have our voices heard. you know, the whole trip just far exceeded my expectations and being not only in the Capitol, but being in the tunnels that go under the Capitol that connect

the Senate and the representatives and being taken by staffers in the tunnels, it just, the whole thing was very humbling and it was a great experience.

Heath Henderson (02:41.068) And then to kind of piggyback on that, I don't think people realize the scope and of the size of what's happening in the Capitol every day. and thinking specifically about the size of the staff for the senators and the reps and the information that they're given. and so that ability to really get in front of them with a streamlined message of the importance of public education and specifically a few things that,

that bills that are coming up and topics that are hot button topics that are sometimes in the newspaper, sometimes on the news, and sometimes a lot of misinformation for people who are outside of education. So really being able to sit down and talk. And like he said, Mr. Mann came out and from that hearing,

But I appreciate it because he had a specific question for us that we had an opportunity to answer. Not just, here's what we want to talk to you about, but like, would you like to talk to us about? And he took that opportunity to do that. And so those are just things that I think are amazing opportunities. And obviously when you're surrounded by really, really good leaders from across the country.

that a networking ability was also pretty impactful and amazing.

Rick Sola (04:08.041) What did you do or how do you prepare for a trip like this? you given anything in advance or you just go in there or you're meeting with high level people, I say, walking out of a meeting to meet you from Pan Bondi, they're taking some serious time with you. And actually, Kurt, the other day when you were sharing about this, you used the phrase genuine time and you just felt like the time you were getting was very genuine, which I made a note of. I thought that was a really nice way to put it.

But what did you do to prepare for this trip?

Kurt Seiler (04:40.646) Not a lot. was, I kind of felt a little unprepared going into it, but I think that was intentional on their part. They didn't want to coach us up on anything before the trip. Now, when we went on the trip, we arrived on a Sunday and they had an opening speaker Sunday afternoon. And then Monday and Tuesday, we went through listening to a lot of speakers come and visit with us about

different things that were of importance on the federal level. So we all know on the state level, we hear it all the time, of all the things that are happening in education committees and everything else, the federal level is such a different level because they don't deal with a lot of the things that were used to them dealing with. And so it was interesting to get a listen to the speakers and talk about, you know, what the federal level controls, what

bills are in place that they're talking about education wise and the importance of it. You know, that was probably the most beneficial part of the trip was those two days of getting to listen to these people who were in very important roles on the federal level and lobby for education on daily basis. And so that's where most of our training and them talking about the educational agenda that we were wanting to talk with each rep. And so that

Heath Henderson (05:54.126) you

Kurt Seiler (06:08.54) Those two days were beneficial for us.

Rick Sola (06:12.395) So you mentioned the speakers and the agenda. You had some priorities that you were there talking to and about. What did that look like and what were some of those priorities that you conveyed to our elected officials?

Heath Henderson (06:27.138) Well, there was a few bills that were either up in front to continue or new. And, and I'll just, I'll speak to the last two and I'll let Kurt speak to the one he spoke about with, with our representatives. the ones we went to were, you know, the mental health, services, and it was, it was about access to counselors and then access to early, childhood, headstart.

And so thinking about that kindergarten readiness and so that's a huge one that we wanted to put in front of them and then talk about how those things impact our building specifically and give real examples of why that's so important to us. And then the other one was that I'll talk about was the Title VI funds and that opportunity for continued professional development for our teachers, our leaders, teacher retention and thinking about the state of education with all the shortages we have now.

and how important that is to the state of Kansas and our public education system here specifically. And then I'll let Kurt talk about the one he talked.

Kurt Seiler (07:32.486) Yeah, so my agenda item is kind of hit home with us because our students have free meals in the six years since COVID or five years since COVID. We've only had one school year where our students have not had free lunches and that's through a community grant that we've received. And so the first agenda item that we talked to them about was free meals for all students nationwide.

Heath Henderson (07:34.285) Ahem.

Kurt Seiler (08:02.546) We firmly believe that all kids need to have the ability to eat a meal and through the COVID process and us having all students eat for free and then seeing that taken away and how that's affected a lot of our kids not having the ability to eat lunch or they know who's free and reduced because this kid's eating every day and this kid's not eating every day and so then it's a have and have not and.

We really push that home that all of our kids need free meals nationwide. There's eight states that currently do that statewide. And we're really trying to push that nationwide just because we know a lot of our kids, the best meal that they get or the only good meal they get is at school. And it's hard to do anything when you're hungry, especially learn. And so we really tried to push that home. And within that same agenda item, there was another bill that talked about

the funding for school nurses at every building across the nation. We know a lot of districts may have one nurse and they have three or four buildings that they have to share that one nurse. We have so many students now that are diabetic, that have POTS, that have so many medical issues. We've got to have a medical personnel in that building at all times to deal with medical emergencies because, know.

God forbid the loss of one life because we don't have medical personnel is just not acceptable. And so we were really pushing for the nurse and the free meals and the two that Heath talked about, especially the, you know, the title one, Kara was there with us and she got to really talk about how much professional development they provide to administrators across the state of Kansas. USA is just knocking it out of the park when it comes to states on their administrative professional development.

And she specifically was talking how we have over 50 open superintendent positions in the state of Kansas, which we know are probably going to be filled with principals and then qualified, highly qualified teachers will move up into those admin roles. And so you get the trickle down effect and you just need to make sure that your people are trained and ready for those positions when they're named. so that was all three of the topics that we talked about were so important.

Kurt Seiler (10:21.872) and it was nice because we split it up. I talked about one, Heath talked about one, and then Kelly and Kara talked about the other one. So it was kind of nice that we each had one that we were, you know, quote unquote experts on and could talk about and all have a story that related to us in our own buildings.

Rick Sola (10:40.555) So you just referenced the others that attended, just for for clarity of this conversation, who all were you with? What was the group that you were with and who made up?

Kurt Seiler (10:50.354) So it was myself, Kurt Siler, Heath Henderson, Kelly Whitaker, principal at Ottawa High School and last year's secondary principal of year. And then Carol Leedy, the executive director of the KPA, and then Eric Sacco. Eric wasn't able to stay with us the whole trip because his son was playing his senior night game on Tuesday night, so he had to leave Tuesday morning, but was still there on Monday and Sunday.

you know, to do his part with NAESP.

Rick Sola (11:21.473) So you mentioned talking with some of the elected officials or potentially representatives. So kind of go through that. I know you met with several. Were you talking with the elected officials themselves, some of their representatives? Who did you meet with?

Heath Henderson (11:38.892) So we, get Kara told, because Kara's been several years, she said this is the most FaceTime that we've had in our organization's history with our actual reps. And so out of our six representatives and congressmen, we actually met with five of them in person and got their personal time. The only one that we didn't, we had to meet with their person was Senator Marshall, but everybody else, we actually got to sit down face to face with.

or stand and have a face-to-face with an opportunity to have a little bit of face time. And one of the things that I thought was, we talked about the genuine time earlier, we walked away really feeling heard by a couple, specifically by a few of them. I felt much more connected to...

that they're actually decent people. You sometimes we get so jaded by, again, go back to what we see and what we read and all those things, and then actually getting to sit down with people and have them talk to you and have real conversations with you about real things that are happening in areas that you know and they know and common people we have. And that humanizes them. like I thought, you know, Jerry Moran,

They had to, his people kept trying to pull him away from us because he was giving us all the time and wanted to continue giving us more time. And so just genuinely humbled by the generosity that they showed us. Cause when you walk in there, then you start seeing how truly busy they are. And we're all in roles where we know how busy our lives can get and making time for everybody is not always possible. But.

It was pretty awesome to get to sit face to face and really have those meaningful conversations.

Kurt Seiler (13:39.816) Yeah, I thought one of the cool pieces too was Cherise David's, Kara had set up a lot of these meets, right? Well, for whatever reason, the emails that she had sent, I don't think the person was getting or something, something was mixed. So she's like, let's just stop by and just see, you know, we can hand them the agenda. We stopped by, she got done with the meeting and.

She didn't have us on her schedule and she sat down with us and she gave us She said how much time do we have in her staff? We're standing next to her said nine minutes and so it was just boom boom boom We were hitting it off as fast as we could but she gave us every minute that she had available She sat down. It was genuine time same with with Jerry Moran as he said but Tracy Mann and Derek Schmidt stepping out of their meeting to sit down with us

gave us genuine time. weren't trying to rush away. They were sitting there. They were listening to us. And then Ron Estes is another one. We didn't have a meeting on the books. And we just were sitting in his office waiting to talk with a staffer. And he got done with the meeting. And he gave us a few minutes of his time, took a picture, made a video with us. He didn't have to do that because he was rushing off to a committee meeting. I mean, we all know in our position, we're pulled in multiple.

directions and everybody wants a piece of our time, those representatives and senators, it's amazing how many different directions they're being pulled. And they did, they gave us a genuine time and it was much appreciated.

Rick Sola (15:14.849) It's really awesome to hear kind of to Heath's point and I've talked with Rick Rivera on this before and he said he conveyed the same message where you know, we can easily get wrapped up and whether it's headlines or You know message boards or whatever and then when you meet the person Behind whether it's a decision or a party or whatever But the personal element and I think Kurt you referenced that the other day but to hear Heath bring that up of

you know, kind of regardless of party lines and just having that time, that genuine time to be able to sit down, you realize the person behind the position. And I think a lot of times I can get lost because we, you know, there's just so much noise that you've got to sift through. So for both of you to be able to get through the noise and just be able to sit and be with another person and have a conversation. And it's really encouraging to hear.

just really like everybody you met with and I think you got to all six of the Kansas legislature. Is that right? Or at least to be able to have that kind of time, whether it was nine minutes or someone breaking out of a meeting to talk with you, that's really encouraging that they're taking time to hear you and the way you felt about it.

Heath Henderson (16:19.159) No.

Kurt Seiler (16:19.39) you

Kurt Seiler (16:32.806) Yeah, because I know not every state had the same experience that we did. And Derek Schmidt gave us a tour of the Capitol at nine o'clock at night on that Tuesday night or no Wednesday night. And just it wasn't a rush through tour. He was telling us stories. He was, you know, we got to sit on the house floor. We got to go down into the the crypt, Washington's crypt. Like it just the

Heath Henderson (16:46.988) Wednesday night.

Kurt Seiler (17:02.366) For him to take out his personal time and give us a tour, it was an hour and 45 minute long tour he gave us. Where he just, I mean, it was amazing that he gave us that time. And not only that, but we got to go in the Capitol at night when no one else is there. know, it just, the history of that building, it's just awe. You're in awe. If you know anything about the United States history and you step foot in that building, let alone get a go to the spots that he took us and tells us the stories. I mean, we got to look.

Heath Henderson (17:08.087) Thank

Kurt Seiler (17:32.388) up the stairs where the president walks down to get inaugurated. Like just the volume of the place that we're at, I'm a history buff. And so being able to get that tour and be in our nation's capital, I mean, it just gives me chills thinking back to it.

Heath Henderson (17:48.768) Well, and I'm going to piggyback on what Kurt just said about that with with with Representative Schmidt. Like that was not something that we had scheduled or planned. He sat down and took time with us and just we just sat and we talked for a little while and then as we were getting ready to leave, he's like. Do you guys have a tour?

Are you guys haven't taken a tour? And we had missed our day tour because we had a staffer from another state, had, was going to do a tour for us. but we had missed it to meet with them. and we said no. And he, and he, he, you know, exchanged the numbers with, with Mr. Seiler here and sure enough, texted us. He's like, I got a late dinner, but if you guys are up for it, I can do it later. And sure enough, he met us up there at nine o'clock at night and then hour 45 minutes.

not rushed, taking our time, and it was pretty awesome to just, again, that genuine time. I'll also say that one other kind of fun connection piece is, you know, Kurt is the principal at Independence. Well, Derek Schmidt graduated from Independence. I went to same fourth grade, I went to fourth grade at Washington Elementary in Independence, and that's where he went. So it was kind of some, it was,

Rick Sola (18:56.613) well.

Heath Henderson (19:05.344) how small of a world it really is. In Washington, D.C., and you have two people who meeting with one of these people who have legit personal connections in some way, form.

Rick Sola (19:07.36) Yeah.

Rick Sola (19:15.37) That's really cool. That's really cool. And I'm hearing all this and I'm a former social studies teacher and I love history and I love following it. And I'm so jealous right now hearing all this like, my gosh, you got to do what? The nine o'clock tour, the Capitol. That's awesome. No, that it's really cool. And like I said, I was kind of following along. I saw some pictures put out, but really just a, a, it sounds like a really great experience, positive experience. And, and that's what I, I love hearing in,

a little bit from Friday when we were meeting with the board, but even more so now, just how positive it was across all the people you talked with. And let's hear from you and to be able to represent. So thanks for representing, but just also really awesome to hear about that. So anything else on your DC trip that's worth mentioning here?

Heath Henderson (20:07.586) Well, anybody who gets, has a chance to go, highly suggest, Filomena's Italian food in Georgetown. the best I've ever had in my life and the, and as good as the food was the, the whole, the restaurant was even better. It was just such a neat, experience.

Kurt Seiler (20:26.81) It was, and we got a tour of the White House one morning. It wasn't a lengthy tour just because construction that's going on, but that was, that was.

you know bucket list item for me and then we got to go to the Holocaust Museum one morning where we had a little bit extra time and that was Man, that was humbling. It just the Holocaust Museum if you're in Washington DC You've you've got to see it because it's just it it's I mean, there's no good word for it. It's just humbling there. It's just an eye-opening experience

Rick Sola (21:01.056) Well, there is a trip being planned here in several weeks, I guess, back to Washington, D.C., as part of principal of the year recognition and trip. And Heath, I know your trip is at a different time, but is it still Washington?

Heath Henderson (21:18.518) I have, yes, it's still Washington. Mine's next fall for that principal of year gala. Actually, it's the national distinguished principal gala, I guess, is what it's called. I'm still learning about all that. It's kind of weird and humbling.

to hear all of that. also you said something about us. I just want to make sure your listeners also know that Rick Sola, our guy right here, also the middle school principal of the year for the state of Kansas. So he's being very humble and trying to shine on other people. But we all know that all the great things that you're doing for the state of Kansas, not just your school.

Rick Sola (21:43.944) yeah.

Rick Sola (21:53.345) Well, thank you. I'm going to tell you, I have never had such an injection of imposter syndrome as I had with this recognition. I was like, yeah, my gosh. It's very humbling. You said the word, extremely so, but an extreme honor. yeah, so I just wanted to bring that up as part of

the experiences, you know, all three of us have recently gotten into. And I'll just start with, in a nutshell, 30 seconds or so, how did you find out about this? Kurt, I'll start with you.

Kurt Seiler (22:35.334) So my superintendent scheduled a meeting with us on, I think, like a Tuesday morning for us to meet in the middle school. it was us, me my two assistant principals, and he wasn't showing up. And I'm like, hey, are we still having this meeting? What's going on? And so he calls me a few minutes later. He's like, hey, something's going on down the band room. We need to come down. Now, our band is...

That's like what we're known for in our area, right? We got 115 kids in our band and they win all kinds of competitions. They're amazing. So I'm like, is a fire marshal here? What's going on? Cause we got a lot of kids in this room. And so I walk in the room and my wife stand there and I'm like, okay, something's up. And so then I see Carol Eady and I'm like, what are you doing here? And so then my superintendent presents me with principle of the year and the band plays our, our fight song. And it was, I don't, I don't get choked up very

often but I got a little choked up and it just yeah it was it was a cool way to do it because I mean that's where our most of our students are at one time and to have my wife there that was that was special for me because she's also a teacher in our district so it was pretty cool.

Rick Sola (23:45.44) awesome.

Heath Henderson (23:48.086) Well, so my school every morning where we are all together, every single morning, we're all together. We do our brain smart start and then we start, we do the pledge in the gym and then we release to classes. And so our kids were getting sat down and I was getting ready to start the pledge and then out the back door, here comes Carolini. And then here comes my wife and my kids and other people.

then they, you I will, I will echo what he said. I don't like to get emotional, but it's, it is really hard. When you look at your staff and your kids and we don't do this for that kind of stuff, but the, the pride that I actually had in them, because that only happens if they're doing good. And that means that they're doing good. And I was just so proud of all of.

them to be able to, I don't know, just to be able to share that moment with these people who you love, kids, staff, family, all of them, because that community piece is very impactful. And I could not get the pledge done fast enough afterwards so they could go. then it's just, and then of course I go down and then they have all these pictures and stuff all over through the building. So I had to.

Rick Sola (25:14.527) Heath Henderson (25:15.232) I had to make sure I got all that stuff down really as quickly as I could.

Kurt Seiler (25:19.474) Yeah, I mean, he'd said it, I don't think any one of us three that are on this podcast.

like taking recognition for anything. I think that's kind of part of being a leader. But the only positive about taking recognition for this is we're a reflection of our building and that means our building and our staff and our kids are highlighted in a positive manner because there's enough negativity going around about education. So to have all three of our buildings highlighted because of good, even if that means we have to be the person in the limelight, I don't like it because I would like my staff

and everybody else to be recognized but I mean if there's any good that comes from it it's it's a fact that our staff and our students get to be recognized for their hard work.

Heath Henderson (26:03.2) I do want to say I did have one other highlight from that moment. The following day, there was an elderly gentleman who came in my building, and he was the former principal of this building back in the 80s and the 90s. And he came to congratulate me.

And he was, he used to be involved with KPA and all that stuff and, he had been nominated, but he was just so proud that somebody from our district was recognized. But for him, and he was 91 years old and he took time out of his day to come up here. Cause he, and he just, and so I just took it and gave him a tour and we spent some time together and talked about our South side superstars down here. just, that was when you saw your, your community.

Rick Sola (26:38.122) Wow.

Heath Henderson (26:51.702) And not just the people you work with and know, but some of the people on the outside who just have history. So because I didn't know him from anybody and it was just, it was very, that was also very humbling. And so had to make sure I took it and wrote him a letter because I found out who one of his granddaughters were and I was like, Hey, I need his address.

Kurt Seiler (27:09.512) Thank

Rick Sola (27:09.792) That's really cool. It is neat. mean, there's so many people that reach out that are unexpected. you realize the, I mean, really kind of the impact this school has, like Kurt said, you're representative of the school. And I've never felt more strongly. I've seen a million awards shows and people recognizing all the team. And I never felt that so strongly as I did of like, this isn't possible at all with, and I look at all the people that were out there and we had an impromptu kind of surprise.

pep assembly and same kind of experience. see my family walking in, the kids are cheering. I've got an eighth grader here in the building. He got to come down and it's a moment you don't forget. And Dr. Dane actually came over, because think Kara was having, her daughter was having a grandbaby at the time or So Dr. Dane came in and the district team and kind of at the same time, Heath, it's like, okay.

Let's all get back to class. It's uncomfortable. Let's go. And you don't know how to respond to those things. But truly, truly it is an honor. and then you get the email of what you complete after the fact. How did that go for you? Cause I got that email and I was like, my, my gosh. Where do I start?

Heath Henderson (28:23.458) Yeah.

Kurt Seiler (28:23.55) Well, Karen gave me a heads up and she's like, hey, you've got to do the application for national principal here. I'm like, okay, you know, I'll get to it. She's like, Kurt, you need to get started on it. You know, she was my high school principal. So her getting onto me because I didn't do my work in time is nothing new. But I opened it up and I'm like, my goodness. And so I took

Heath Henderson (28:30.914) Yeah.

Rick Sola (28:45.802) Ha

Kurt Seiler (28:52.846) good two solid days I mean my door was open and people were coming in but that's what I was working on was just non-stop because of all the things that you have to compile and Somebody said you get you know principal here. What do you get now? I said a lot more work

Heath Henderson (29:10.636) Well, and luckily mine's not due until May, so. Yeah.

Kurt Seiler (29:15.484) Have fun with that.

Rick Sola (29:16.874) Kurt, how much time did you have to complete it? Because we were on a tight turnaround.

Kurt Seiler (29:20.754) We were on tight turnaround. She sent it to me and I think it was due at the end of the next week. Like it was, and I had to get the student to write. I had to get a parent to write. And I'm like, man, I don't even know how this process. So I got in and luckily I called Kelly Whitaker who did this last year. And she's like, my goodness. She got hers and did hers on the day that her team was competing at state basketball. And so hers was very rushed and she's like, Hey,

Rick Sola (29:27.39) Yeah.

Rick Sola (29:46.2) wow.

Kurt Seiler (29:49.796) you better get started on now this is what you need to do and so I highly suggest Heath that when you get started on it you call last year's winner because they're going to be able to help you out a lot.

Heath Henderson (29:59.468) Well, it's funny because there was another application process that we were working through that was very similar. So a lot of it's going to help translate, think, and transfer. yeah, no, it's, you know, I'm kind of excited to see those next steps and looking forward to that trip to DC and all that stuff. It's going to be so many opportunities to steal great ideas from other great leaders.

Kurt Seiler (30:27.676) Rick, did you get feedback from someone else before you did yours?

Rick Sola (30:27.86) Yeah.

Rick Sola (30:31.648) I reached out to Dr. Dane. Yeah, just I had eight days, I think is when I got it and it was due the following, you know, it was eight days later. So I was working on it kind of like you did. You're kind of chipping away at it and pulling together what you need. But then getting letters from people that need to write on your behalf and which I just found very awkward. Like, hey, could you could you write a nice letter about me and just turn it over?

Kurt Seiler (30:59.646) I

Rick Sola (31:01.664) But no, it's a really neat, it is a neat process and you really, you kind of dig into some things as part of it. So it's really neat. And I guess to close the loop of this, there is for Kurt and I, secondary side of things in April, a trip to DC for the, I can't remember, it's the NELA, National Educator Leadership Awards night, I believe. And then Heath, you said yours is in the fall.

Kurt Seiler (31:26.845) in it.

Heath Henderson (31:30.198) Yep, in October. So, ESP, yeah.

Rick Sola (31:31.905) for the NAESB, yeah. So, and then some things in between, but had opportunities to jump on, NASSP, Principal of the Year, Zooms, know, guess collaboration opportunities with each other. So it's been a really, really cool experience, but super excited to be a part of it and to see the two of you on the other side of things at the elementary and high school level.

It's truly an honor. but anyway, I want to thank you both for being here today. I know Kurt, you're headed to a site council. Heath, you're probably headed to something too and concluding a Monday here, taking some time to share out and just a really awesome, awesome trip. It sounded like you had in Washington. I'm excited for this to get out and hope people will hear your perspective on just how it was you felt when you're meeting with our elected representatives.

Kurt Seiler (32:29.906) Yeah, and Rick, I just want to say thank you for continuing the communication side of KPA. I mean, you do an amazing job of getting principals stories and word out there, and I can't thank you enough from all of the principals in the KPA. How much we appreciate what you're doing. And as he said, couldn't pick a more deserving person than middle school principal of year. And you know, I'm honored to sit in the presence of both of you. So call you both friends and and it's that's

That's what the KPA organization's about is networking and I wouldn't have met the people that I know now and I just can't say enough how much your guys' friendship means to me.

Heath Henderson (33:08.942) Well, and I'll echo that same exact thing. And not only that, but like we wouldn't be sitting here if we didn't have opportunities to network with people like you guys. Like I wouldn't be sitting here if I wasn't around you guys. there's little things that I've learned from both of you and as well as some other people in KPA and USA. And it's just, it's an amazing fraternity to be a part of. I, but.

I also want go back to the very first piece of that and just say thank you so much, Rick, for everything you do for our leaders and the communication piece, because these things are things that will live forever and reference points for young leaders and...

new ideas. That whole communication piece and that's where our world is going is actually, they need podcasts, need video, they need audio. It's nice to write articles, all that stuff's great, but putting this platform together and taking that time and doing it in such a professional way has been amazing. Thank you again, Rick.

Rick Sola (34:19.552) Well, thank you both. And it's an honor to do this and truly to sit with both of you. And you mentioned KPA. I'm not meeting either of you if I'm not a part of the KPA and being a part of all that the KPA has to offer through conference as part of the USA Network in May, KPA conference in November. And those are events that I so look forward to because it's fun to connect with both of you in person and all the others.

And there's just so much value to the network we have. And that's the strength in what it is we do, is tying us all together. And so thanks for being a part of that. And once again, for being a part of this podcast today and sharing out. But I want to wish you all luck in the rest of the semester. And if not sooner, I know I'll see Kurt in April, but we'll all catch up here soon enough, I'm sure.

Heath Henderson (35:14.926) Thank you very much.

Kurt Seiler (35:15.836) Yep, thanks Rick.

Connect with Principal Filippi

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

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Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction to Principal Eric Filippi
• 04:33 The Journey to Becoming a Principal
• 08:54 Building Relationships in Education
• 17:28 Innovative Programs at Wichita Heights
• 26:45 The Importance of Community Engagement
• 31:52 Advice for New Administrators

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FULL Episode Transcript (AI generated)

Rick Sola (00:02.059)

Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas principals. I'm here today with principal Eric Filippi, proud principal of Wichita Heights High School, USD 259, home of the Falcons. And Eric is also Wichita Heights alumni from the class of 1992. Eric, welcome.

Eric FIlippi (00:22.254)

Thank you, thank you, appreciate you having me.

Rick Sola (00:24.662)

Yeah, glad to have you on today. we were just talking before hitting record here, principal Eric Filippi, but you said everybody calls you flip.

Eric FIlippi (00:35.424)

Everybody calls me Flip, everyone except for my mom and my wife. So from our superintendent, everyone, it's always Flip.

Rick Sola (00:42.902)

Well, I appreciate the heads up on that and the permission to call you flip on here. like I said, glad to have you on. So you are one of now a growing list of principals coming onto this show that have been recommended by somebody else in the state, which is really awesome. And so I appreciate you responding when I reached out. And it's cool to have people on here that.

have been recommended. So I don't know if you want to thank that person or if you want to blame that person, however you're viewing this right now.

Eric FIlippi (01:17.238)

I will absolutely, Mr. Shelf will absolutely get some recommendations from me for sure. So no, I appreciate that he thought of me when you, he was in one of your sessions, I believe at a conference. And I appreciate that he thought of me that I'd have some information that somebody might find useful.

Rick Sola (01:21.236)

Yeah.

Rick Sola (01:39.948)

Yeah, no, and like I said, I'm excited to have you on and we are recording this. It's January 21st and we have had a really mild winter and I'm assuming down in Wichita, it's kind of like up here in Kansas City area. We haven't had a snow day yet this year, but we are on the cusp of some major action going on here in a couple of days, kind of off the outline of topics here, but what's it looking like for you in Wichita?

Eric FIlippi (02:07.406)

Well, the conversation that I literally had before I turned on our computer here, it was the weather for the weekend. We're trying to get our girls wrestling tournament. So we have an Olathe school that was supposed to be coming down and we have liberal coming in. And so right now we're trying to get that shifted to if we can get that shifted to Friday and try to get it in on Friday before the Saturday weather really hits.

you know, anywhere from 5 to 13 inches, which is absolutely crazy that those are the numbers that we get. But yeah, we're looking, we're looking for some definitely cold weather and it's a kind of a, a crap shoot as far as what the precipitation will be at this point.

Rick Sola (02:54.272)

Yeah, I don't think we're quite as high on what we're supposed to receive, but certainly cold and that number of of snow seems to keep growing every time I look at it. So we shall see, and we'll see if it's a timing thing that hits the school days or not. That is something you just hit on it, like big wrestling tournament. And every time a snow day comes in, and I've got kids in my house, and they're so super excited about the idea of a snow day. And there's times I'm thinking, you don't know the havoc that that

Eric FIlippi (03:19.365)

yeah.

Rick Sola (03:24.16)

this Reek Sunday school calendar and all the events that we have going on.

Eric FIlippi (03:29.46)

Absolutely, and then when you when you get into the getting things rescheduled and you know, it's just everything's packed in there so tight and spring is really obviously spring is really bad with you know track meets and and you have to get those certain things in before state competition and and regionals and and then pressing up against graduations. But man snow days. They were always awesome growing up, but as an adult now.

You know, that still has to come into the building on a snow day to make sure there's broken or busted water pipes and that the building's secure. That's always a good time as well.

Rick Sola (04:07.648)

Yeah, and at the high school level, just like you mentioned, liberal Kansas, Olathe, Wichita, you got all over the state and you're trying to reschedule that. You don't just do that. That's a lot of coordinating there. Well, good luck out there and I hope it's minimal, but we'll see. It's not looking so great.

Eric FIlippi (04:29.548)

Yeah, no, it's you know, worst case scenario. They allow it to happen, but then we can't get the referees, you know, so that's it's gonna. It's going to be interesting. So yes, I definitely hope we're going to go. There's a lot of state champions and state placers that are going to be at this tournament, so it's going to be a lot of fun.

Rick Sola (04:35.82)

Right, right.

Rick Sola (04:47.286)

Well, Eric, kind of segueing in here, generally start the show with the road to the chair. And you're currently at Wichita Heights High School as principal. You started as a student there. Fill in the in-between your road to the current chair you're in.

Eric FIlippi (05:07.028)

Absolutely. you know, started out 1988 here at Wichita Heights. And as a a as a freshman in high school, and it was funny that some of the some of the individuals that the well, the teachers that I had that really helped give me direction as far as getting into education or really having a life because I was single parent home.

mom did a friggin amazing job, St. Elizabeth. That's what I like to call her. she did an amazing job, but you know, if she was at work or, dealing with not dealing, but doing things with my younger sister who has spina bifida, and they would have to go to St. Louis to the shrine hospital. You know, they, gave me a lot of opportunities to, you know, get in trouble, my, myself and my older sister. And, and, when I, when I got to high school, there was,

there was a coach that, you know, grabbed me and, and, you know, said, Hey, you need to play football. And so kind of got me into athletics and got, got, got me engaged with some motivated adult males that I did not have in my life, positive male role models. And I didn't know it.

Then it wasn't until later in reflecting as far as what drew me to education and what drew me to social studies to be a history teacher was some amazing teachers slash coaches that I had that some of them were social studies, one science, but people that I say that I owe a debt to. And then, you know, that that kind of changed to me owing a debt to this building, to this school.

for what it gave me, which was a life, an opportunity to go to college. In my head, I would say I was gonna go to college, but I didn't know what it would take to get to college. And so, once I graduated from Heights High School, I went to a community college for one year, thinking that I was gonna go D1 after that. And I saw what an actual D1 athlete looks like and realized it wasn't me. And so kind of gave up on that.

Eric FIlippi (07:23.854)

gave up on that dream and then went to Wichita State University. And then at Wichita State University, I bounced around with some different ideas for different majors of things I wanted to do really wasted some time. But I found myself and what I found was somebody that really did want to be a teacher. So I got into the College of Education and my first teaching job was at Wichita North High School.

And I taught social studies at Wichita North and from there I didn't just do social studies. was also on the original site team that brought the AVID program into the state of Kansas. And I was the second AVID elective teacher in the state of Kansas. so I was able to do some academic things through AVID and work with AVID.

as a staff developer. So I would travel, get to travel the country in the summer times and deliver that instruction to other social studies teachers at first. But then once I started teaching, I really did love it. And in education, the way to get a raise, the way to get a little extra money is to go to the, get classes, get a master's degree. And so it was a kind of a conversation with my wife that

you know, I could go curriculum and instruction or, you know, get a get a administrative degree. And I decided to get administration. at the time, I really didn't think that I was going to go be a principal because of all the things that I saw them, you know, that all the stuff that the assistant principals had to do. But I was young at the time. And and, you know, some of the things that they got to do, it was exciting. It was, you know, every day was different. And then

once I got like actually into the program, I started seeing how the administrators actually help or not help, they drive the curriculum, they drive the culture of the school. And I always had a really good relationship with students in the classroom. But it was in the administrative world,

Eric FIlippi (09:42.607)

I started meeting a lot more of the little flips out there. You know, the kids that were me. And that has always been a driving force, a motivator for me to be somebody that a student can look back on one day and say, you know, hey, you know, this guy really helped change my course. So that is something that I've always tried to do. And so I taught for eight years at Wichita.

North High and then when the when I graduated with my admin degree, Wichita Southeast High School was getting ready to start the AVID program at Wichita Southeast. And so I called the principal that was going in over there. And was just hitting them up, you know, hey, just checking to see if you need anybody to help you start AVID over there and.

You know, he ended up picking me up. There's a little bit more to it than that, obviously, but in my head, that's how it went. And then Mr. Leroy Parks, who is currently the principal at Chester Lewis here in town. But I went to Wichita Southeast High School. I was an assistant principal there for six years. Then from there, I went to Wichita West High School. I was an assistant principal there for four years. And then I went to Coleman Middle School.

Rick Sola (10:42.028)

Sure.

Eric FIlippi (11:08.254)

Absolutely loved Coleman Middle School. Went in with, there was a, principal at the time was Jeff Friend, who he and I started our teaching careers together at North High. So it was kind of crazy that they allowed the two of us to be together. So I was an assistant principal there for two years under Jeff Friend. And then I got the, the, the information that Jeff was going to

go over to a different middle school and get some things started over at that magnet and then that I was going to be named the principal at Wichita Coleman Middle School. And that was my dream job at the time. I absolutely loved it. I loved everything about that school. We were working to turn it into an environmental magnet at the time. We had bees and that was just absolutely

Absolutely an amazing experience interacting with bees. We had an apiurus that would come out, so we had our beehive. We had our commercial kitchen because it's a we we use the kitchen. It passed all the standards that we needed to do, and so we would harvest the honey and we would buy the clamshell packaging and the students would harvest the honey. They take the honeycomb, the raw honeycomb,

put it in the clamshells, weigh it, package it. You did everything, know, safe serve style, and then we would sell it. And then those funds that we raised would go towards some of the different programs that we were doing there. So absolutely was enamored with the environmental theme. And then the spring of 2020, I think we all remember that spring. I found out that the

the principal at Wichita Heights High School, which again, like you said earlier, this was my high school that I graduated from, the one that I owe the debt to. I was found out that he was going to retire from administration and he wanted to spend his last couple of years back in the classroom. And so I got a hold of the assistant superintendent at the time, told him that I was really super interested in it and

Eric FIlippi (13:30.819)

went to AMAC on, was it March 12th? March 11th, March 12th and shot my shot, big date and had a shot my shot and then he had to cut the meeting early because him and the elementary assistant soup and the superintendent was meeting with the governor about something. So they had to go, something was happening.

Rick Sola (13:38.954)

Yeah, that was a big date. Yeah.

Rick Sola (13:56.79)

Yeah, yeah, what was going on then?

Eric FIlippi (14:00.175)

And so I went home and then found out later on that, oh man, she shut everything down. so later, a couple of weeks later, I got the telephone call from Mr. Alvarez and he told me that I was gonna be going to Heights High School, which was, at the time, I mean, it still is kind of a dream come true because of that debt that we talked about. But then also,

I don't know how it happened, but having a wife and my children, this is also my children's school district. so they, all of my children, my three children, they all graduated from Heights, which was for two of them that I actually got to be here with them.

for their time here. was, it was, that was absolutely amazing. So all the hours that we put in didn't feel like those hours because I was able to mix dad with being a principal and things just kind of hit differently when your, when your children are at school. So, you know, when you think, you know, this person that I'm hiring, would this be somebody that I would want to teach my child? Well, that's is going to be somebody that I'm going to have teach my child. And

Rick Sola (15:18.006)

Right.

Eric FIlippi (15:18.734)

It was, you know, just absolutely a phenomenal experience getting to share that because as an assistant principal, as the assistant principal, as all the administrators out there know, you know, there's so much, you know, with the nighttime activities, you know, how do you balance being dad with being a family person? How do you balance those things out? And then, you know, this was that perfect mix. So

All of my children, went Jackson Elementary, Stuckey Middle School, Heights High School, because that is their trajectory of schools. yeah, it worked out absolutely amazing to be able to be with my children at the school that I've always wanted to be at and be able to share some of those experiences with.

Rick Sola (16:10.316)

Yeah.

Rick Sola (16:13.696)

Yeah, there's a lot of crossover. Former social studies here, three kids. I'm currently principal at the school where my kids are passing through. Not my home school that I grew up in, but the school wasn't built when I was a kid. But it's in the neighborhood I grew up in. A lot of cool things. You had mentioned about that, I guess, when you were a classroom teacher, the relationships you had in the classroom. When you became an administrator,

Eric FIlippi (16:28.459)

Right.

Rick Sola (16:42.828)

How did you transition from, I'm the classroom teacher. I've got all these great relationships to be thrown into. Now you're an administrator and there's a level of skepticism some students will take just knowing the fact that you're an administrator. And if you're a brand new face and you've got that title, how was that transition for you? How did you break down the barriers of kind of building that relationship from a different angle?

Eric FIlippi (17:07.18)

Well, and it it really started and this is this is what worked for me. It started with being at the school in the summertime with the going to the new school and then because I had coached in the district, I also coached. I coached football. I coach track. So when I went to Southeast, I would talk to you know, talking to the football coach and I would go out to practices where there is summer volleyball or.

or whatever practices were taking place, weights, and I would get to know some of the students and, you know, just kind of goof around with them, I guess, in that regard. was built a little bit differently then than I was now, so I'd get on the, you know, throw some weight around with them a little bit, or one of the coaches that I...

worked with let me go out and you know long snap you know take the long snappers out so I still got to coach a little bit and do some long snapping with the kids and so I had some relationships going into the school year or at least some familiar faces that you know I was able to get a little bit of street cred or whatever and then. Living in Wichita which is you know it's a it's a good size city it's a big city but it's not that big and so.

having had some of my friends children that might be coming through the school or you know some sort of relationships. It that those are the kind of things that you know that I would work on and just you know I say street cred but that you know I'm hey this flip he's kind of a funny guy you know I mean that's a good dude man you got him upset nothing ever gets him upset you know because I genuinely do love.

Rick Sola (18:56.678)

huh.

Eric FIlippi (18:58.511)

I love my job. with my my why you know I I try to be as engaged as possible with the students and so to answer your question as far as how I did that you know I used athletics I you know if I see a kid with a concert t-shirt on or a band t-shirt you know somebody's wearing a sublime t-shirt you know I'll ask him about that because I did you know I used to listen to sublime.

I used to listen to some of these, but Nirvana, when I graduated high school, was, you know, smells like teen spirit. That was, that was it, you know, I mean, just anyway. So, that, that the transition, you know, I definitely felt that my, my reach was wider, which I liked. It wasn't just my kids in A through D, which was my first job. My, my alpha was A through D.

Rick Sola (19:31.34)

Yep.

Eric FIlippi (19:52.464)

But then working with AVID and then working with at the school, I was able to not just deal with discipline, but I would try to, you know, all the positive fun things that are going on at the school. And, you know, when I had those relationships and whether it was, you know, Joe Randall at Southeast High School and watching him play and then he goes on to Oklahoma State University or

Or Albert Mack was a kid that was in my honors US two class that ended up going to Butler County for two years. And then he went to Troy university and spent seven years in the NFL, you know, but still communicating with those individuals and, and, just being a part of, you know, what's important to them in, in our communications through the day, you know? And, and so those, those are the things in athletics or plays or musicals or whatever.

Those are all things that I find very important. And so one of the things I tell our assistant principals now, you know, that when you do go to an athletic event or when you do go to a play, you know, that I want them seen, yeah, but I want them seen, I want them seen, seeing, you know, I want them interacting and.

Rick Sola (21:13.547)

All

Eric FIlippi (21:14.479)

And with the group that I have now, it's not something that you really had to, I really had to impress upon them. But don't just sit in the back of the theater on your cell phone and with the blue face, because the kids noticed that. My daughter that was in band, she had thought that one of the people that worked here at one point was a security guard. They had no clue that he was an administrator, just because there wasn't that engagement level.

Rick Sola (21:29.27)

Sure.

Rick Sola (21:39.819)

Yeah.

Eric FIlippi (21:43.478)

And so that's those are those are things that you know, just understanding whether the kids welding or whatever, you know, especially and I'll tell the kids in the welding room, you know, I'm to end up paying you a ridiculous amount of money someday because if you put a welder in my hand, it becomes a weapon because I'll hurt myself or somebody else, you know, and that that is a skill that I do not have. And and I make sure if they're off to Skills USA that we send them off right, because it's it's it's really impressive what the students are able to do.

Rick Sola (21:54.06)

You

Rick Sola (22:01.046)

Yeah.

Rick Sola (22:13.472)

So you're at Wichita Heights. You are a graduate there yourself. Now you get to be there. You've seen your kids go through. And I know one of the points that Principal West brought up recommending you was flipping the tradition at Heights and the culture and the role as principal that you play, but the role you have in that tradition, maintaining it.

You can speak to it going back years, but it's just as important now and moving forward. What are some of those things that you've done at Heights that are now, it's kind of something that you've brought and you've established over the last six years.

Eric FIlippi (22:56.719)

Well, and I mean, lot of what I have are a lot of big ideas and I have, you know, I count on lot of people to help me make those ideas a reality. Cause I'm an idea man, I thrive on enthusiasm. And so, you know, there's some minutia that I guess is pretty important there as well. But one of the things that I thought was really odd when I came back to Heights was that Heights didn't have a hall of fame.

And so that was one of the things that we started five years ago. And so I got a group of alumni together and said, guys, this doesn't make sense. mean, all these names that were on the wall when I was in high school, why don't we celebrate some of these things? Because Heights has had Darnale Valentine, Antoine Carr, Aubrey Sherrod, our list of basketball McDonald's All-Americans. We've had,

judges that have come through here, artists, nationally renowned artists. And we've had all these amazing people and no Hall of Fame. So we started the Hall of Fame. And for the most part now, Antoine Carr had to do a video, but Darnell Valentine flew back to Wichita for his induction. And that was pretty awesome to...

to be able to talk to him. it's just that is one of the things that inviting our alumni back to Heights. And one of the feelings that I have, and I have it on my wall over here, one of the things that I want to do is to have a small town feel at Heights. And so our elementary school, to have a relationship with the elementary students in the elementary schools that

Rick Sola (24:41.6)

Mm-hmm.

Eric FIlippi (24:49.239)

they want to go to Heights because that's the cool place to be. There's no other option. They're going to go to Heights because we are branded in that regard. There's no other option for them. No magnet. We want to go. And so between that and the parents wanting to send their students to Heights High School because of the academic opportunities that we offer,

And that is what we are, that is some of what I'm trying to push. so one of the things that we've done is we've also created, so we have the alumni welcomed back, but then we also started a program that we've called the Falcon Fast Track. And so with the Falcon Fast Track, that started out during the COVID shutdown time where Heights went to a four by four block. And so,

With a four by four block, the students go to four classes every day for an entire semester and then they get their entire they get their entire year's credit in that one semester. And so the district did that to cut down on the contact tracing. So we went to a four by four block and I had a buddy of mine that actually called me and he said,

Rick Sola (26:04.204)

Mmm.

Eric FIlippi (26:11.951)

Flip, my daughter just got done with Algebra 2 or she's getting ready to finish Algebra 2. Instead of going into this class second semester, can she go ahead and get her in, can we go ahead and put her into a pre-calc trig so that she doesn't have to wait an entire year before she takes math again? And so we did that and that kind of put that in my mind is, you know, how do we build our upper level math classes?

And so our jumping off point with the Falcon fast track or what ended up becoming the Falcon fast track was students that took or that have their Algebra 1 credit in elementary or in middle school. When they come to Heights that we can give them an opportunity that they could take geometry double block geometry first semester double block Algebra 2 second semester and then from their sophomore year on any math class they take its college credit bearing through.

Wichita State University. So Wichita State University would give them the three credit math class for $99. So that's where it started. So not $99 per credit hour, but $99 total. And so that started in 21-22. We started that with that first group of Fast Track kids that graduated last year that went all through the program. And I, oh shoot, I,

Rick Sola (27:20.193)

Yeah.

Rick Sola (27:37.674)

And you're saying Fast Track's still going.

Eric FIlippi (27:40.588)

yeah, we're still rolling with Fast Track and so. They they might have something like that, but as far as that math portion, I believe we're the only one that that offers that as a as an option as a selling point to keep our students from going to IB program at another school or going to a magnet school that we are able to offer that here and.

Rick Sola (27:41.836)

Are the other high schools doing this too?

Eric FIlippi (28:09.167)

So we are also able to offer 18 classes that you can get college credit from at Wichita State University, 18 courses that you can take and graduate with your, basically with your associate's degree, but you're doing it $99 per class. Well, now it's $149 total.

or $149 per class because working with Wichita State University, it was $99 for on campus here and then helping us get our teachers certified and all that so that we can do the concurrent. Then it was $200 on campus. Well, now it's just $149. If we don't have the course here, we can send them up the road to Wichita State University and then they can take it with the college peers that the students don't have to be cohorted together.

Rick Sola (28:49.217)

Yeah.

Eric FIlippi (29:04.943)

Yeah, we definitely have students that are graduating with their associates degrees and. And or or very, very close to it. And so with the cable or buckets, there are seven buckets that the Kansas Board of Regents has that if you can fill those seven buckets in high school. That that those are your prerequisites to.

Rick Sola (29:06.508)

Well, that's a good deal.

Eric FIlippi (29:29.823)

any major, any at any university you go to in the state of Kansas, you would have your prerequisites done here at Wichita Heights.

Rick Sola (29:37.089)

That's no, that sounds like a really good deal. And I can imagine that would be in a set up and it starts to get real for high school students as they get older, you start getting real credits to colleges and it starts to feel they're branching out, you know, they're approaching the real world as they say. You said something a minute ago about, you know, the importance and value you put on that relationship between your school, a high school in the elementary. And I imagine probably the middle schools.

Eric FIlippi (29:49.515)

yeah.

Eric FIlippi (30:03.18)

Yes, yeah.

Rick Sola (30:03.456)

you know, as a middle school principal, but you mainly working with families and the students, gosh, that just can't be overstated that that relationship. And it means so much when, whether it's administrators or coaches come down and that outreach, the middle school kids, they, I mean, they see that and they know that they're on the cusp of that, but that just goes so far.

And then elementary kids, I've got an elementary student myself, they just think it's really cool to see, the high school's here, you But what a positive outreach and way to really kind of build the excitement for your school and the years ahead.

Eric FIlippi (30:40.345)

That it is. It is a lot of fun and and you know when when you say that you know that the exciting aspect of it. You know when. One of our you know basketball team goes in and you know coach will take him to the middle school and you know our basketball team will watch them. You know watch one of their games or and then we invite our middle schools to come up to watch you know our athletic events as well so that they can feel that you know with the with the pet band and with the.

And even even marching band we have the date and I'm sure this is happens everywhere or a lot of places but you know we'll have the eighth graders come in that will be in marching band the following year when they get to high school and then they'll do they'll do a show with our marching band you know as when the when the players come out so they get the Friday night lights and they get you know they get all that up front to kind of get help get them excited for.

what is to come. And so that is ridiculously important in my vision and with our amazing middle school principals that we have in our feeder pattern. How can we get Heights High School in there, whether it's leadership, student mentors, or just coming in and.

talking to them about the events and what high school is like, not just academics. Because when I was in middle school, you know, it was always something, you know, when you get to high school, when you get to high school, well, let's bring some of the high school to them so they could actually have a tangible thing to grasp onto as far as what it is to be in high school.

Rick Sola (32:28.236)

Yeah, it builds that community and it's so positive. as we were recording this a few weeks into January, so the semester is really kind of in front of us still. What's got you excited at Wichita Heights here this semester?

Eric FIlippi (32:46.115)

Well, mean, besides besides the athletics and and you know our girls basketball team is still undefeated in six. I think we're the only undefeated 6A basketball team. have a new basketball coach that you know that that buddy that I was talking to you about earlier is not very happy with me because we're going to try to get her in the building. She is a middle school English teacher at Robinson Middle School here in town and.

You know, I told her, yeah, man, we're going to have to get her in the building and and she's just an amazing, amazing, amazing asset to whatever school she's into. But so there's absolutely the athletic athletics that go along. That's that's that's fun. Prepping for the new beginnings for the new school year, what are we going to be able to do to add to the things that we've already started? And, you know, just the.

Man, the spring semester seems to be so fast, where first semester feels like a marathon sprint, and then you have a moment to breathe at the winter break, and then second semester, we had a four-day week this week, and then we got a couple more weeks, and then, man, we're gonna be at spring break, and then we graduate early. mean, May 11th, our seniors are done.

Rick Sola (34:06.484)

You

Rick Sola (34:10.077)

Okay, yeah.

Eric FIlippi (34:11.08)

So Monday, May 11th. So then you look at the calendar and you're like, wait a second. So then if we have to have senior convocation and we're doing this and senior finals, man, that, you know, that's, that's the first week of May, you know, Holy smokes, we're, finishing up quick. So, you know, I always, I look forward to that. I look forward to, the, the seniors and their beginnings and, really just, reflecting and prepping and

Rick Sola (34:25.543)

Yeah.

Eric FIlippi (34:40.952)

And that the part of this season that I that really hurts for someone, you know, like for me, because I not that I hate being in my office, but, know, I just as as the principal of a high school or middle school, you are literally the furthest person away from students, you know, and and so.

You know you don't get the interactions like an assistant principal does when they're coming in to sit down and talk or you don't get a lot of those interactions. So you know you get your opportunities during our walkthroughs and and what we're doing. You know classroom observations and we're doing some of those things, but I always like to make sure we are very, visible in the in the hallways that when we are when we are out and about that we are.

actively engaging with the students. you know, so, you know, as far as the, you know, the looking forward to and taking an opportunity to really grasp and see some of the great things that are happening, because this time of year can definitely get caught up in, you know, planning for next year with master schedule and, you know, and everything else that takes place.

Rick Sola (35:57.675)

Yeah.

It comes up so quick. I have found that right around that Thanksgiving time frame, that's a really good sweet spot in a school year. mean, there's a lot going on. There's events and things. But you come back after the holidays, and you hit the ground running. And oftentimes, you're battling snow days, as we might hear in a couple of days. But you're doing enrollment and master schedule.

you're already looking ahead to next year. And so it goes really quick. You kind of hit on, you talked about the visibility and I was going to ask you about advice that you would give. And I think that that would be really good advice for anybody listening who's not an administrator, but wants to be that visibility piece. So I'm going to flip it a little bit. What advice did you receive as a first year administrator that you still are remembering and holding onto today?

Eric FIlippi (36:48.496)

Oh, wow. Holy smokes from, you know, there's there, you know, advice that's funny advice that's, you know, the biggest piece of advice that I think, you know, every all the get a good pair of shoes was was one of my mentors, he said, invest in good shoes is is going to be huge.

But the thing that I think we all, definitely being younger-ish, I think I was 33 when I got my first admin position, 31, I'm indestructible at the time and you're running out of fumes, but the big piece of advice is take care of yourself, take care of your physical and mental wellbeing, take care of...

You know, because you're going to open your eyes tomorrow and you're going to be 51 years old and you're going to be, you know, I'm, pushing 29 years in the district, 28, 29 years in the district. And, you know, where did that time go? And, uh, you know, making sure that you, you stay healthy, uh, mentally, physically. Um, I think that is the best piece of advice that I got that I did not listen to, um, you know, because there's always, you know, uh,

It was not until I got to Heights High School and was able to interact with my children the way that I did that I realized just how much stuff I had missed. Or, you know, I get home and I'm so tired and I don't want to go work out or, you know, I don't want to get up in the morning like right now, you know, when it's seven degrees in the morning, it's not really inviting to get up and, you know, go to the YMCA to go work out or whatever, you know, but getting into those

Rick Sola (38:42.315)

Right.

Eric FIlippi (38:47.76)

Make sure that you take time to eat lunch. Make sure you you know all all the things that I know I'm supposed to do that they told us about at Wichita State University and the program and you know just when you get busy you know that self care and always want to take care of other people. You a lot of times you tend to. You tend to. Not take care of yourself, so that would be one thing and and.

Rick Sola (39:15.733)

That's

Eric FIlippi (39:16.72)

The other is be prepared for what you can't be prepared for. The things that you cannot, the things that you can't prep for is just absolutely mind boggling. My wife's in the medical field and she, you know, kind of, she kind of laughs like I've seen more.

You know between athletic events and stuff more dislocations more, you know accidents and and things and she has and and you know there's there's a lot of a lot of pressure. You know. The the participating in you know and and the kids survived. So that's why I'm telling this. You know we had a kid that got ran over by a bus both axles when I was at Southeast High School and.

you know, having to come up on that, you know, they don't don't they don't teach you that at at Wichita State and you know, last year, Big JT referee here in the the city league, you know, collapsed on the court and and we had to clear the gym and I helped participate doing chest compressions and you know, and then 20 minutes later, you know, the the ambulance leaves and you know, 20 minutes later,

Rick Sola (40:13.429)

No.

Eric FIlippi (40:35.662)

you've compartmentalized and then now you are ready to now shake hands. And we still got a basketball game going on and I have 2,500 people in the gymnasium that we need to make sure that they have a decent experience. yeah, it's just there's a lot and making sure that you figure out a way how you are able to decompress.

Rick Sola (40:44.863)

Yeah.

Rick Sola (41:02.857)

Yeah, you mentioned a few things there. I'll comment on first of all, the surprises, the things you just can't prepare for. And it really ties into what you said right before that, which is take care of yourself. And just to sum it all up, how do you take care of yourself? there's so much that we do have to compartmentalize with what we do to be able to.

to move to really a pretty traumatic situation in a gym floor. Then you got to move to making decisions. But at some point at the end of the day, you go home and you sit in a chair and it all starts coming back. how do you take care of yourself? And that's so important. I think that's really important for those listening who either aren't in the chair or brand new. And also to know that we all feel it. We're not robots. So no one expects. And you shouldn't feel like you have to just

deal with it and like, I just got to push things aside. No, take care of yourself, the mental, the physical, and all those things. And I'd also say that it's so easy. The first thing that's easy to go is taking care of going home and working out. It's real easy to put that aside, but really important piece. then just to circle back, because this came up in a conversation I had with Sean Henderson. He brought up the shoes, too.

And he was talking about his first pair of Hokas. And I got a pair, too. And I'm like, my gosh, this is like world changing. But the amount of walking that we do and maybe if I mentioned them on this, they'll sponsor us at some point. But no, I really appreciate that. And before we go, I'd like to give everybody on here a chance to brag on your people. You've talked a lot about just so many great things happening in Wichita and happening at Heights.

Eric FIlippi (42:30.736)

Yeah.

Rick Sola (42:43.499)

And I loved what you said earlier, actually wrote it down, said, I'm the big idea guy, but I rely on others to help me. And I love that acknowledgement. So this is a chance to recognize all those others who are helping you out there.

Eric FIlippi (42:56.48)

man, my entire administrative team, they are absolutely incredible. It is a great mix of concrete sequential, a big idea. know, Everardo Flores is one of our, well, I tell you what, Myron Fisher, Everardo Flores, Tracy Nigg is our athletic director. She is our APAD.

And she was actually a social worker by trade. So she brings in just a different perspective. Joanne Fluker, she's our special ed, just guru of all guru-ness with the SPED world, our social workers that we have in the building, our school sites. But a big one.

Ryan Degraff. don't want him to listen to this and not having an opportunity to say his name, but our security team is absolutely amazing. Stephanie Chappot is our instructional coach and she was my first hire when coming over to Heights High School and I worked with her when she was, or I knew her when she was student teaching at North High years ago.

And then she was also involved in Avid and she knows curriculum inside and out and she's just absolutely a godsend. so, you know, her, data coach and Ms. Hutton is my assistant and man, she will, she takes care of me. She'll shut the door. She'll keep me to my calendar.

Rick Sola (44:39.915)

Hmm.

Eric FIlippi (44:43.248)

And I don't mess with Ms. Hutton. So if she says, I'm shutting the door, need to, this is on your calendar, you're doing your emails right now. So audit, I'll take care of it. So having those individuals and then also our assistant superintendent, which is funny, Dr. Lauren Hatfield, I like to tell people that I hired her into the district as a math teacher at Southeast and now she's my boss.

Rick Sola (44:46.068)

You

Rick Sola (44:51.412)

Yeah.

Eric FIlippi (45:10.96)

She's absolutely amazing and you know the support that we get from our central office as well as Brandon Johnson and he is our executive director of secondary ed and he is my personal coach that also helps me when I need to talk through some different things. the collaborative

Rick Sola (45:11.029)

haha

Eric FIlippi (45:41.017)

not feel, the collaboration that we have in our district. And if you need help with somebody, you know, there's always somebody there and the other principals that we have here in the district as well with different chat groups that we have that, you know, we'll pose questions off each other to, you know, to find out, hey, how do you do this? How do do that? So it's very, very helpful.

you know, to have those individuals, to have that team. And then of course my wife, who is just so unbelievably supportive of what we're trying to do here in the community. It's really a blessing.

Rick Sola (46:28.315)

lot of great people and kind of it could be a show feature, the principal spouse, know, the role that they play. It's, yeah.

Eric FIlippi (46:34.536)

yeah.

Rick Sola (46:39.115)

They feel a lot too. But awesome to hear so many great people out there that you're working with. And Eric, it sounds like so many wonderful things happening in Wichita. And I appreciate your time at the end of a long school day. And this is another thing for you. But it's great that you were able to come on and share your story and Wichita Heights story here for those listening. And I want to wish you all the best this semester. And we'll get through as.

unscathed as possible with any weather events and rescheduling and whatever may come up this semester.

Eric FIlippi (47:14.018)

Absolutely. Well, I truly appreciate you giving me the opportunity to have this forum. And I really enjoy reflecting and appreciate you asking about the people that were around me, yeah, that's none of anything we've accomplished is possible without.

Rick Sola (47:32.499)

Yeah, that's absolutely, positively the truth there. There's so many people, but well, thanks, Eric, and we'll wish you all the best. Have a good evening.

Eric FIlippi (47:41.516)

Absolutely, I appreciate it. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your school year.

In this episode of Cool Coffee with Kansas principals, host Rick Sola speaks with Dawn Chase, principal of Horton Elementary School. They discuss Dawn's journey in education, the challenges of school consolidation, and her transition to principalship. Dawn emphasizes the importance of establishing relationships with staff, creating clear procedures and routines, and managing time effectively. She shares valuable advice for new principals, highlights the significance of self-care, and celebrates the supportive community at Horton Elementary.

Connect with the Principal Dawn Chase (email)

Connect with Cool Coffee Host Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org, kpacoolcoffee@gmail.com 

Chapters (timestamps are approximate)

00:00 Welcome and Introduction to Horton Elementary 02:39 Dawn Chase's Journey in Education 05:23 Challenges of School Consolidation 07:48 Transitioning to Principalship 10:26 Establishing Relationships with Staff 13:10 Creating Clear Procedures and Routines 15:41 Managing Time and Responsibilities 18:21 Advice for New Principals 21:21 The Importance of Self-Care 23:50 Celebrating the Community and Staff 26:26 Closing Thoughts and Fresh Starts

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

Provide Cool Coffee feedback! Click HERE to share thoughts and suggestions--including guests to have on the show!

Click for ALL Cool Coffee episodes!

Connect with Cool Coffee on...

Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee

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Contact the host: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

Episode Transcript (timestamps are approximate)

Rick Sola (00:02.401) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas principals. Today I'm here with principal Dawn Chase from USD 430 Horton Elementary School, home of the Chargers. Hello Dawn.

Dawn Chase (00:15.128) Hi, how are you?

Rick Sola (00:16.541) I am good. We are just wrapping up here where I'm at. It's our first day back with students as we get back from the holiday break. I don't know if that's the same for where you're at.

Dawn Chase (00:28.694) Same here, this is the first day we welcomed students back and it was a great day.

Rick Sola (00:33.771) Yeah, was the energy was high. seemed like a lot of students were glad to see each other. And I always wonder what tomorrow is going to look like because I think they'll realize how early they got up today and they weren't used to that. But it's a fun time of year as we get going with the second semester. But before we get started, I just want to remind listeners, give the show a like and a follow. And also a reminder to check the show notes. There'll be contact information for both myself but also our guest.

And so make sure you're checking those show notes for more information about the show. But Don, you are principal of Horton Elementary School. Let's start there. What can you tell us about Horton as far as where you're located and the size of your school? And we'll go from there.

Dawn Chase (01:25.816) Okay, Horton is a wonderful little place. It's like a diamond in a rough, a perfect little small town school, but it's not small town ideas and attitudes. There's a lot of things going on here that are very exciting at all the levels. But Horton is surprisingly, I'll tell you, I'm from Meriden. So I grew up as a Jeff West USD 340 girl. So this job puts me about 50 minutes from home. And so I drive each day, 50 minutes each

way and it's a great time to get a lot of things done.

It wasn't until I actually looked at a map that I realized how close to the Nebraska border I am. I did not realize how close Brown County was and that's terrible because I've lived in Kansas most of my life. But more about 15 minutes from Hiawatha, 20 or 30 from Holton. Horton's just a little nestled place that's just, it's a diamond. So school size, we have about 220 students. I have a building that is pre-K through fourth grade.

And we have some students that are outreach. We have a special education portion of our preschool. We also have our general education and actually we're in the process of fully making those integrated. So that's exciting to see both of the sides together. But about 220 students and like I said, it's a wonderful place to work and it's very similar to the first school that I actually taught in and where I grew up as a kid. So it really feels like

Come.

Rick Sola (02:59.991) Well, that's a great segue there to your road to the chair. And I know you are new-ish to the principal chair, but talk about that road from your start in education to where you're at today in Horton.

Dawn Chase (03:15.658) Okay, first off, non-traditional person here. I am not the traditional got out of college, went straight to a job. I thought I wanted to be an accountant and you know, accountants made a lot of money and I like math so that's what I was going to do and that track didn't work out too well and life happened and I decided to go back to school to get my teaching degree. I had

two children, but I started in 2008 and I got a great job at a small, again, hidden gym and it was a great place. I probably would still be working there buried underneath the oak tree at some point, but that school got consolidated into a bigger one. And so that kind of forced my hand to make a change. I'm not traditionally a person who goes after change or loves change.

So I transitioned and got a job as an instructional coach and a behavior coach. And so kind of like a dean role at another elementary school that was much larger, we're talking 600 kids. And I did that for about a year.

the admin took a change and I thought it was time to maybe explore something a little bit different because I always knew I wanted to be a principal but I didn't immediately after my degree go there. It took me a while and so after that I went to middle school and I taught sixth grade math and that was an amazing experience. I'm kind of well-rounded. I've taught third grade, fifth grade, sixth grade.

And then I had applied here and there for jobs within my district. I wasn't looking super hard. I wasn't really putting my feet out far. And I got a message one day from an acquaintance and that's where networking is so important of a job that I never would have looked for. And it was, hey, come check us out. Maybe if you want to come interview. And I made the jump and got the job. It's exciting, but it was

Dawn Chase (05:23.242) probably like I said about 16 years in the educational realm but now here for about one and a half and it's a great move I'm glad I made the jump I made the change it was scary but this has been what I have hoped and dreamed for for a long long time

Rick Sola (05:42.488) That's really great. There's a lot there. I'm really intrigued. I can only imagine going through a consolidation and what that puts on a building, a staff, and a community. And I didn't realize that as part of your history going into this show. Is there, I guess, of a 30-second kind of synopsis of what that was like going through such a challenge?

Dawn Chase (06:08.238) So it was difficult when I first, I had two job options and there were two schools and the person in HR said, man, I can't tell you what to do, but if you go here, I think you'll want to stay. This is where you want to go. And like I said, the people there, the friendships that I've formed still today, they're some of my greatest friends. It was just a family, kind of what you dream a school situation is going to be. And there was rumors for a long time that the school might close.

our enrollment might be down. We're talking under 200 kids and you know things get out. So every year you're kind of worried pins and needles and then when it finally came out that it was going to happen, they did the customary, you know, community meetings and and all the things that they needed to do, but it was difficult. And it was hard for me. So the year before they actually closed is when I took my leap and went to be the Dean and instructional coach, behavior coach at the bigger school. And so

it was really hard. grieved that, but I don't think as much as if I'd stayed till the very very end. But it is hard and those people that I had worked all those years with now are spread out to different, you know, different buildings throughout the city and we still manage to stay close, but it's very difficult. It is like a family breaking up. it and it was hard on those students as well.

Rick Sola (07:34.242) Yeah, schools are such a big part of a community. And I can imagine the challenge that would, and toll that would have on that community. You mentioned you went from there to being an instructional behavior coach. And I would imagine that that sets you up really nicely in almost a training for you to become then a principal. And you said that you always knew you wanted to be a principal. What was it about being a principal that you always knew? Because I've talked to a lot of principals on this platform and

I've seen it go both ways. I think there's some that set out in education to hit that track. Others never saw it coming and they get tapped on the shoulder next thing they know they're knee deep into pursuing a principalship. But what was it about being a principal that intrigued you?

Dawn Chase (08:18.252) I think.

The biggest thing that I can tell you is the opportunity to affect a lot more students on a bigger scale. Don't get me wrong, I miss my classroom. There's days when I, that's what I want to do is just go get in there and be with the kids because that bond and everything that you do that year, you keep those kids so close to you. But now to be able to work with teachers, mentor them, help make decisions with them that really drive

of how our students are gonna learn and grow and to affect the students that way. It's such on a bigger scale. just, really thought I wanted to learn the most that I could about the students, the community, all of that. And I just feel like this is the best way that I can give back.

Rick Sola (09:11.169) That's awesome. So you are a year and a half in to your principalship. when we were talking, leading up to this recording, you had shared that, you know, being a year and a half in, you know, what, what, can I offer that sort of thing? And in my mind, I'm thinking, my gosh, there's, there's so much as part of just the mindset of a first and early years principal. As you're, you are a year and a half in and you receive news that you are going to be named the principal of

Horton Elementary, what did you take as your first order of business at that point that you received that news? Where was your mind on your next steps immediately?

Dawn Chase (09:51.523) Personally, I called everybody. That's probably not the answer you're looking for, but it was so exciting. I shared it with all the important people, my close group of people that I had grown with teaching with, and a couple of former administrators that had been in my corner the whole time. I shared it like crazy. I was so happy. Then the reality set in of, man, I have a school. need to think what I'm

going to do and you have all these ideas and you think you know what you're going to do but really your mind, your brain, everything you know says you need to go watch, you need to go learn, you need to go get the lay of the land. So what I did was I came and visited the school and of course there were a couple of people on the interview team from the school. It was made up of various people so I had a couple of connections and people that I knew and I got really good feelings because

Because let's be real, it has to go two ways. I had to know that this is deep down what I wanted to do and I got really good feelings. I got that family sense from the district and I was looking for that. And so I thought what I want to do is I'm going to do staff one on ones. And so I created my first all school email and I put it out about two weeks before school started.

I was going to schedule one-on-ones and send a list out and said anybody who wanted to come in to talk about anything from introducing themselves to telling me about problems or things they were concerned about, here was their time. And I nervously waited and soon it started getting filled up and that was not everyone, but I soon learned that there weren't enough spaces. So I went ahead and kept it open through the first week and a half of school to make sure everybody got an opportunity.

that really helped get to know people on a personal level and hear what they loved about the school, what they loved about the community. And some of them did bring concerns or problems or things they were worried about because when you get a new administrator sometimes you think, man I need to say this so she knows XYZ. And so it was a really mixed bag but it helped me I think get a good jump start on the gear ahead.

Rick Sola (12:20.448) So when you set that up, you have set questions you wanted to ask them, or was it truly open-ended to say, hey, I'm here. You come in, and you speak and talk about what's on your mind. How did you frame that for your staff?

Dawn Chase (12:35.766) It was completely open. I didn't want to lead it at all. And in the email, I said, you can come in and you can just simply say, hey, I teach third grade. My name is blah, blah, blah. And that'd it. You can tell me about your family. You can tell me about you professionally. I just wanted it to be a conversation because that's one of the things that I think I'm good at is being a people person and forming relationships. And I knew some of the best administrators, one in particular, still

It's been 20 years probably since I've worked for this particular guy and I can see him at Home Depot. He'll address me by name. He'll ask about my husband. He'll ask about my kids. He still knows little things they do and to me that means a lot that he took interest in me not just as a teacher but as a person and he cared about my family. So that's the kind of person I strive to be.

Rick Sola (13:30.775) I think that's a really good decision to set and create that time for staff early on and I'm just thinking if anybody listening I don't think it has to be in your first year even I think that could be something you do every so often and Yes, you promote. It's a good way to establish an open open door policy But I would imagine too that you probably receive some information That's really important for you to know as a principal, but you never would have gotten otherwise without

setting a platform for staff to share that.

Dawn Chase (14:04.448) It was really great to hear what they had been through. Basically, the school had a principal for a long, long time that retired and she was very beloved. mean, amazing. And they had a principal that came in the next year and for whatever reason, it wasn't a good fit. And so I was following someone who was following, I don't know if I'd say a legend, but you know, when you come in after a principal that's been there for a long, long time, you have big shoes to fill, but you can't focus really on

the shoes because you have a different set of shoes on your feet so you're never really gonna fill somebody else's shoes so once I kind of cleared my head of being myself and and establishing myself for my own you know journey it helped clear a lot of things in my head

Rick Sola (14:54.634) Yeah, that can be really challenging. It can be great to go into a really established building. But like you said, when you're replacing someone who has been a legend or been a really strong pillar, you don't want to try to emulate someone totally. And you've got to be yourself, just like you said. But that could be really tough. of course, you coming in once removed from that might

Be a positive because sometimes those could be challenging situations. What was your welcome to the chair moment? You said that you I love that you highlighted first that you called everybody you knew and I think that's really a very real answer It is exciting when you get a job that you've been in pursuit of to be able to Share that so I love that that very real authentic answer of yeah, called everybody and that's really a celebration But what was that moment? Like you said reality sets in that you realize

I am in the chair now. Did you have a moment where it kind of hit you?

Dawn Chase (15:59.363) You know, I learned really, really quickly that there is no principle manual and people may laugh at that, but.

I kept thinking, gosh, there's got to be a source. Like, I would miss a deadline on something or something would come up and I'd feel like I was unprepared and I would think, gosh, was there a book on this? Was there something? And you know, I joined a new principal organization and did that in the first year and they sent out reminders of monthly things to think about and do. And that was immense. That was just invaluable.

to me. So I think really the first time it hit me like this is this is your your game is someone came in with an issue and I wasn't quite for sure how I was going to address it and I thought naturally I'm just gonna go talk to my principal about it and I was thinking that's me now so what do I what do I do and so I'm blessed with a great admin team I have a fabulous superintendent she is Dr. Kramer is amazing.

She has lots of experience, but she's real and What I love about her is she doesn't always give me all the answers Which of course sometimes can be frustrating, but she makes me think and I'm better for that So when I go with to her with a problem, I may not get the answer that I think I need it's okay How are you gonna solve that? What are you gonna do? And that's helping me grow and Growth is uncomfortable, but it's not supposed to be comfortable growth is supposed to be uncomfortable

And so I think that that was the big lesson is man. This is your decision. What are you going to do? How are you going to use your resources now to cope with the right answer?

Rick Sola (17:47.575) Yeah, uncomfortable is a really good word, especially early on in a principalship. And like you said, that's where the growth comes in. And there's times you probably feel like, I know I did, where it's like, oh, I must be growing a lot because I'm extremely uncomfortable right now. You're going through something for the first time. You mentioned there's no principal manual. And we say that facetiously, but there truly is not any principal manual. And there's also never a repeated situation. Like even things that are similar have their own nuances to it.

One thing that intrigued me as we were leading up to recording is you shared how you really appreciate, but I guess reinforce operating on clear procedures and routines and talk about that. What does that mean exactly? What does that look like at Horton Elementary as far as their principle operating on clear procedures and routines?

Dawn Chase (18:41.26) So knowing not every situation is the same, it's hard to have a very...

like this happens, this is what I'm going to do. So I'm very clear with knowing that sometimes you need to think about things in a different, look at things from a different lens, like how you discipline. But as far as the clear procedures and routines, I like the students to know what I expect. I'll use lunch for an example. I'm in the lunchroom every day and

that's a great time for me to interact with the kids and see them at a different time and to hear the jokes. Do want to hear a joke? And you know all that stuff. But they know what it looks like and what it's supposed to sound like as they enter the lunchroom. They know what's expected. We practiced it at the beginning of the school year. We did expectation like routine stations. We did the bathroom, recess, the lunchroom, different places where we needed to reinforce or teach

for the first time, what does it look like to be responsible and to be in this area? And we practiced it. And that was from kindergarten all the way up to fourth grade. And it really, I think, comes down to kids like consistency. That's why they love school or they think maybe they don't love school, but really it's a safe place for them because they know what to expect. They should know what the procedure is. If I need to sharpen a

pencil and I'm a classroom teacher what is that rule can I just get up do I have to give you a signal the same with being a principal is I want all of my people to operate the same way so that if I'm absent in the lunchroom one day it's going to be handled the same way as if I was there I don't have outlandish things going on or people disciplining or saying different things everybody was a part of that what does it what does it look like to be in the lunchroom how do we do this where do

Dawn Chase (20:47.936) line up when we're done? What kind of voice level do we have? It just, I think it's a well-oiled machine and really it takes away confusion. I mean it is just supporting those kids so they know exactly what to expect and they know how things are going to be because most people do not like change and so if you can keep things clear and consistent then you can hold them to high expectations and when something's not right

you can call it out and talk about that and then reinforce, okay, where did it go wrong? What did you not do? What did you not do in your time in the lunchroom? So I think it's powerful.

Rick Sola (21:31.255) There's so much comfort for kids with routine and that predictability and you kind of you mentioned that alluded to that. What did you need to do, especially as a new principal? What did you need to be intentional with with your staff? Like you said, you can't be everywhere all at once, but there are expectations. Was there anything that you did very, very specifically with them to kind of help lay that out or set out a communication piece that then gets into classrooms? How did that look?

Dawn Chase (22:00.781) So.

professional development at the beginning of my first year was a lot about them learning me and me learning the school and I didn't change too much at the beginning. I knew how I was as a teacher. I had a quiet straight line in the hall. It was just a thing for me. I don't know, you know, some people they're a little lax about lines. I needed that quiet and straight and we weren't going to go until that happened. And so I had very clear visions.

of what I wanted but also I now have a whole group of people I need to make sure that's the collective message so they don't think okay this is Mrs. Chase's way and it's the only way so I had to get buy-in and we have a really great system for social emotional we use leader in me and it talks about the seven habits and we can weave those everywhere it's not just a 30-minute lesson it's it's everywhere and so if you can use those things and they

already were very

I wouldn't say concrete or cemented, but they have strong belief in this building, in that system. They've had it for a while. I've had to learn that. I knew nothing about it. So it's been a learning curve for me. But building off of that naturally led to, okay, how are we going to use this to refine and define behaviors and what it's going to look like across the building? And then in your classroom, how are you going to carry that as well into your room? So you make sure you do more teaching than disciplining.

Rick Sola (23:35.553) Yeah, I love that you mentioned the you wanted to spend time at the very first professional development of them getting to know you, but you getting to know the school. And I think that's so it's such a good a good lesson, important lesson. And I'm sure we've all been in positions where maybe we moved a little too quickly on something. And that's probably a trait, a natural trait of principals is to you want to move forward. That's that's part of our makeup. We're in positions of leadership and we see things.

but how important it is to really kind of pause and assess a situation, especially being new to the building and building that trust and that buy-in, like you said, I think that's really, really important. Was there anything along the way, maybe early on that was just unexpected and it was a challenge and you didn't expect it big or small, but that came up that really kind of, like you said, it was a reality check of like, I don't have a principal to go talk to, I am the principal.

Dawn Chase (24:31.694) I think for me one thing that's been an unexpected challenge is how we deal with the students who ride the bus. For us, our middle school is about 10 minutes away, so we have an element of we have buses that come from the middle school, they go to the high school, they end up here. So we've got time where the kids have to be somewhere and have to be supervised. I've always been in a place where either

the bus cave it was there people came and picked up and you didn't have that lag time and I thought okay what are we gonna do how are we going to define what it's gonna look like in this space because before it had just been a dropping ground so to speak of of kids and not in a bad way but they didn't they didn't have procedures I guess before and

That's been a big thing is trying to make sure that they're not all wound up before they get on the bus so that they don't, you know, get on the bus and then have incidents there. That's one thing. And then also just managing the different aspects of the pickup and how do I manage my time? I'm supposed to be and I want to be out front. I want to see parents. I want to, you know, dismiss kids. I want to greet kids. But what do I do when this comes up?

this comes up. So time management still is not like the best I guess because it's impossible. I can make the best plan for my day and within 30 minutes it can go out the window because other things have taken precedence. So I think that's kind of what I'd say more than even the busing and how to handle that is just how do I handle all the things and feel like I get to them and I don't neglect being in the classroom.

doing those walkthroughs or just going in to spend 10 minutes with kindergarten because it makes me smile or go to preschool and watch them do the silly art things that they do. Like that's what makes me happy and that's I think why most educators do what they do. It's for the kids and so the time management piece I think was the biggest slap in the face of how do I feel like I can get everything done and I've just had to realize I'm not ever gonna have a clear to-do list. It's okay. I'm not.

Rick Sola (26:55.595) Yeah, I think that grace you just alluded to there at the end is so important. We're not going to get it all done, and there's a lot of plates spinning at any given time. I think back, I've got kids that are newly driving, and I think about when we're driving in a parking lot, and it's that first time they're behind the wheel, and they're going 15 miles an hour, and in their mind, it feels like they're going 85 miles an hour, and everything is...

is happening quickly because it's all brand new to them even though they're just in a parking lot. I think that of that analogy as it relates to being a new principal, everything feels so much faster. Things are coming at you and then we gradually get pick up speed. We gradually get on the open roads and things like that. Sometimes the hard part is we don't start in a parking lot. We start right off hitting the ground running. I think things start to, like you mentioned, the management piece.

And sometimes we learn by getting burned a little bit, things start to slow down just a little bit. Never clearing the to-do list, but that management piece starts to build upon itself. And that's kind of what I want to ask you as a principal year and a half in. And I know there are listeners who are in the same similar boat as you or they're aspiring administrators or whatever the case may be. What advice would you give to a person who

may be finding out this semester that they're going to take over a building in August.

Dawn Chase (28:26.862) I think number one, you need to realize that not every problem needs to be fixed and it's not gonna be fixed immediately. I think that took me a bit is I'm a people pleaser. I like to fix things. like to help and when people would bring me something, I would think, okay, now's my time. I've got to figure this out. And I found myself with a lot of things that maybe weren't as high on the priority list

Maybe they should have been or I mean, I cannot fix everything I guess is what you need to realize is just because you're the principal it doesn't mean it's your responsibility to fix everything. You have a team and that's the beautiful thing is you have a lot of people that have specialized roles in your building. You know, your counselor, your custodians, your, you everybody has a place and you've got to be able to lean and rely on your team and I am blessed to have a great team.

When I don't know something I go looking for someone else out there to say hey help me with this and You can't pretend you have all the answers because you don't and I just because you're the boss now doesn't mean You have to have all the answers. It's okay to say man I don't know but I will look at that or I will I'll check on that. It's okay and I Just feel like people need to realize, you know principle doesn't mean

you're the ultimate. You are the decision maker, so to speak, but if you're a good principal, you lean on your team and the decisions you make are a result of a collaborative, reflective process with your people so that it doesn't seem like it's coming from the top down. It's actually just coming from everywhere because hopefully the people that have needed to have a hand in it have helped you along the way create the decision you're going to make or the policy or the procedure because really that's what

you need, you need people to trust you and trust doesn't come immediate. I think that's the other thing I'd say is my husband told me when I very first took this, says, I'm going to tell you this, you're going to have to be okay with people not liking you. Not everyone is going to like you. And that goes back to the people pleaser in me. And I've had to realize, you know what? It's okay. As long as I'm operating in the best interest of the kids and I'm making sound.

Dawn Chase (30:56.282) educational decisions and As my superintendent said when I lay my head down on the pillow at night I can say I did everything I could in the betterment of the school and for the kids then it's okay It's it's okay to do that. And if some people are not happy along the way we'll figure that out and so that's a lot of advice I'm sorry, that's kind of blurry but

Rick Sola (31:18.191) No, that's perfect. Making decisions based on what's best for kids is one of the oldest bits of advice and cliches even in education. And I have only found it to be more and more true the longer I've been a principal. And exactly to your point of, you your head down at night and go to sleep? Well, if you're making decisions based on what's best for the school, what's best for kids,

you know, that's really where it all hinges. And that's why we're in the position that we're in is to make those hard decisions sometimes. And it can be uncomfortable to know you're really frustrated somebody or someone who does not like you, but that is part of that leadership. And yeah, you mentioned as well that it's okay to say, I don't know. And I think there's so much value in that. And that's a hard thing to say sometimes, because it almost feels like, well, you don't know.

almost like it could be twisted in the wrong way. That can be a really positive thing. It shows a real moment for you as a leader to be able to say, I need more information on this. A lot of the decisions that are being made are not just unilateral. They're based on information that was brought forward through other conversations. So I really like all that you mentioned there.

I hope there are people that are aspiring or new to it that hear that because you hit on a lot there. I've got to ask before, I'm going have you brag on your people here, but right over your shoulder there's a picture of a, like, it looks like a yellow lab. I love dogs. Is that, who's the lab there?

Dawn Chase (32:54.35) Yeah.

Dawn Chase (32:57.824) Okay, I'll tell you.

in my school that I love that I worked at for so long. Our school secretary had an oops of a litter and said, I know I had papillons before this and they had all aged out and we were looking to possibly get a dog to kind of ease the very last one's transition and have a buddy. And she said, I just had a litter that is they call them the reindeers because there nine of them. So they named them after all of the reindeer. And she said, I have the perfect one. She's the ranch.

She's gonna be great. So Prancer is my dog. And as I took my daughter who, I don't know, probably just a couple of, we've had them, are four now. To the other side, I don't know if you can see, there's another one, I don't know. Anyway, Cupid is the other one. My daughter came home with Cupid because she was gonna move out on her own and she wanted a buddy. So we have the sisters and then the rest is history. But yeah, they are amazing.

I kind of have kids that are 23 and 28. They're my new children and they're my babies and that was a very hard thing for me to do was come back to work because I miss my dogs. But you know.

Rick Sola (34:09.239) I am a big dog. I hand out little treats of the car line for our dog riders that come through and yeah, big, dog fan. Anyway, totally. That was totally off, off topic and aside, but you know, I think, I think a lot of us principals are dog people. So anyway, but you've spoken very highly about Horton and the diamond that you are currently working, but this is your chance to brag on your people for all those who are listening across Kansas.

Dawn Chase (34:39.734) So we have a fantastic elementary school. It's we're a family and that's the way we operate is all of us are a tight-knit little family and that's that's just how we treat all of this all the students and just to let them know hey I care about you so you know what's going on if something goes wrong it's not about what you did and and I'm not about the consequence you're

to get it's why, what do need from us? And so we have a fabulous group of classroom teachers. We have a student success liaison who, you know, works with kids. We have a newly formed, this is the second year, what I need, a win room. So that person works for kids that have sensory needs or needs a place for a time out and works on strategies. I'm telling you.

This building runs, it runs very well together and that's from, like I said, the top down. We couldn't do it without our custodial staff and all of the people, our fabulous cooks. You can't think of all the people that make the school run until you sit and look at your staff list and you're like, yeah, that's why it runs this way. We have just a really phenomenal set of people that come here every day.

You know, have a teacher who had twins a couple months ago and her first day back to work was yesterday And it was a hard day right leaving. I can't imagine leaving two babies but seeing the support of everyone here as we lifted her up and you know, I'm talking from our Superintendent to other principals too because we had all district professional development yesterday Just lifting her up. That's that's the type of place I want to be at I I want to be at a place

where it sounds like cheers everybody knows your name but I know pretty much all of these kids and I'm learning parents and I just feel like this we're going to accomplish so much because of the attitude of my educators and everybody else that it takes everybody to make this work it takes everybody and so I I feel blessed to be here and even though I don't live in this community because I mean I just

Dawn Chase (37:09.284) don't, but this they have made me feel as if I'm a part of this place. And this is just a phenomenal little place. And to be a charger is a great thing. So it's just I can't say enough great things about the things going on here and the changes and and everything that they're trying to do at all the levels. And I can't speak eloquently about high school and all of those things. But they're they're really trying to do initiatives that help kids get ready for life beyond school, because we're trying to really

get our kids career ready in a sense that they can go out and do big things right when they're out of high school, if it's not college, because for a lot of kids it may not be.

Rick Sola (37:50.168) Sure. Well, a lot of really good words about the people you work with and around, and you highlighted several. And I would just say, don't undersell your role in that. And it sounds like a lot of great things going on out in Horton. And like you said, being a charger is a great thing. That could be like a t-shirt or something out there.

Dawn Chase (38:07.15) I also want to say not to I I really want to be sure that I did I tell you and I think this is something that you spoke about in your last podcast is The weight that a principal carries

It's not describable to anybody else that's not a principal and even when you're off you're not off you Your mind continues to think about things and really that's that's been a big thing for me is trying to figure out how to Disconnect even for just a little while like the dogs They're a big cup filler for me because you can't you can't lead anyone with an empty cup So i've got to find ways to build that back up and so when i'm at home, it's family. It's

it's my pets and it's all the things that make me happy. love to go fishing but you know right now it's not that and I love football but that's not even going on very well either right?

being around these kids fills your cup and I think that everybody needs to just realize that self-care is important and if that means you take some time, you shut your door for five minutes, I've told my teachers if you just need five, ten minutes, whatever, call me. I'll come in, just take a breath, go breathe some different air. Whatever it is, we've got to be here for each other.

Rick Sola (39:29.567) That's a really good, I think, awareness of what we deal with in the position and the role. And it's hard to turn our mind off sometimes, but it is really, really critical that we do and that we find ways to make that happen. And whether it's a hobby, a walk, a book, or a dog, you know, and that is really, really important. And there is a tremendous amount of responsibility. And that's a really good awareness, like I said, as far as

if you're not in the chair, it's hard to describe potentially and something worth considering for those who might be aspiring for that role. And I also follow that up with it's the most rewarding position, the most rewarding job ever. And I love so much about it. It's not without its challenges, but so many great things with it.

Well, Dawn, thank you so much for taking the time today at the end of our first day back with kids. And I hope the break we just got off of, I hope you were able to unplug and take some time away and really recharge because we've got a semester ahead of us. It's going to be great, but it's going to take some work. So thank you for being on.

Dawn Chase (40:42.04) That's right. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. And it's a great time to tell all those listeners out there and it's a brand new fresh start. That's what I told all the students today is 2025 it's a new year guys. Let's come in. Let's make it a fresh start. And that goes for principals, educators, whatever it is. If you've got a resolution or whatever you're working on, it's a fresh new beginning. So that's exciting.

Rick Sola (41:08.491) That's awesome. Well, happy 2026 to you, Dawn, and thanks for joining us today.

Dawn Chase (41:13.431) Alright, thanks Rick.

Connect with Principal Henderson Email: shenderson@usd489.com X: @hays489

Chapters:

• Introduction and Building Challenges
• Balancing Roles and Mentorship
• Communication and Culture
• Time Management Strategies
• Advice for New Principals

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Episode Transcript (timestamps are not actual due to editing needs)

Rick Sola (00:02.114) Hello and happy new year. Welcome to the first full feature episode of the 2026, I guess not even really school year, it's just a calendar year. Today's guest is Principal Shawn Henderson, Principal of Hayes High School, USD 489, home of the Indians. Welcome, Shawn.

Shawn Henderson (00:19.938) Thanks for having me, appreciate it.

Rick Sola (00:21.932) Yeah, Sean, you know, we were just talking here before hit and record and I'm excited to have you on here. I've I knew most recently I saw you at USA Kansas back in May of twenty five. But then I remembered I definitely saw you again. You confirmed that that you presented at KPA conference either twenty three or twenty four. And I know I saw you then. And so excited to have you on the show. And not to mention also you were recommended by another principal who filled out a form in the past and put your name down as someone who should be on this show. So

I appreciate that and that you're willing to be here. As we record here, it's January 2nd. So it's literally like the first workday back from the holidays. appreciate you being on and taking the time here to be on this show.

Shawn Henderson (01:09.622) You bet, away we go, right? Embrace the second semester.

Rick Sola (01:11.756) Yeah. Yeah. And so actually that kind of leads into what, you know, I want to talk a little bit about today, but, know, it is January 2nd. I don't know if Monday for you is when students return. Where I'm at, it's actually Tuesday. We have another professional development day. As you come back, what's I guess staring you in the face right away, good, bad, or indifferent that you just know, okay, I need to have some attention on this.

Shawn Henderson (01:38.19) Well, so we're really blessed that we opened a brand new school this year, brand new comprehensive 5A high school. And to go through that process and come out to the point that in August 12th, they gave us the keys and a week and a half later we're in school. And so to have a brand new school. So for us, it's kind of that opportunity to reset expectations. We're definitely looking at that process and protocol, all the norms that are associated with any school year.

and trying to maintain that. But for us, it's trying to make sure that our people feel really comfortable about our space because it is still very, very new. And so everything that we do is still kind of a first. And so we're just trying to, the word that I always use is calibrate. We're trying to calibrate how we do things. And so we, like you just mentioned, we have a professional development day, collaboration day, Monday, and then we'll have the kids Tuesday.

So those are the kind of things we're going to be talking about on Monday with our staff.

Rick Sola (02:41.528) Great, I love that word calibrate as well. I think it's so important. And I always feel like the time's well spent if you need to recalibrate or at semester to take the time to revisit expectations. And that's a message I try to get to staff as well is don't feel like there's a rush to get back into content. You're gonna make up the time by taking the time right now to revisit. For our kids, it's close to three weeks that they've been in a classroom and to take that time is so important.

Sean, I gotta say, I feel like it's a major oversight as a host of a podcast. I did not realize that you were in a brand new building.

Shawn Henderson (03:19.214) Brand new. I mean amazing. I took this job five years ago and we passed the bond that first year. We spent a year and a half planning it, several years building it, and I tell people all the time this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to have this specific seat and to get to be in every meeting and the design process and all of the things that go into this. It is a blessing. I will tell you there are days that it's, ooh, I have learned a lot.

about getting a staff ready to and a community ready to embrace a new building. But it has been incredible to say the least.

Rick Sola (03:54.905) So did you shut down a previous building to then move into this? Or is this a Brandy Heisman?

Shawn Henderson (04:00.418) Yeah, so we built, it's brand new. We built it next door to our high school. so talk about crazy, I'm gonna send some goodwill to my friends next door. Our former building has been gutted the last six weeks in terms of updating it. And they start school on the sixth with kids. So they are starting, they moved over the Christmas break, the middle school, into our former building. So that is a.

Rick Sola (04:05.228) Okay.

Shawn Henderson (04:26.69) substantial move in their world. So bless their hearts. I'm sending them all the best thoughts I can. So our district has had, it's been an incredible bond and process and we've been a big part of that having a new school, but our friends next door are moving in and it's a lot. So I'll be thinking of them January 6th and us because we all have to share the same drive lanes. the community is going to have to, students, staff, parents, we're all going to have to work on.

the new parking with 10 % of our town all on one block.

Rick Sola (04:57.216) Yeah, wow, what what an undertaking. I have seen recently a year ago, our district, we closed and then opened a middle school. And it was interesting talking with that principal, some of the things that came up as far as, you when you open a brand new school like you're in right now, I'm assuming everything in it is brand new, the furniture and everything. But you're coming, they're coming from their old classroom where they have all their the things they like and they want to bring with them. Was that a challenge to say?

this does not make the move or did you have some parameters you had to put in place?

Shawn Henderson (05:31.43) yeah, lots of parameters. mean, what was that UPS that said, you know, that phrase, said, we love logistics. did we love logistics. We had to, we had to embrace it. We had to talk about how badly we need the things from 45 years ago that have been in the back of a classroom. And, and, and to be honest, it's pretty cathartic and I don't think that it was necessarily bad for a lot of our people. I think the talking about it was horrible. The doing it actually ended up being, Hey, you know what? This is okay. I, I feel like I did get to clean up and clean out and

and it's really broader. May I have your attention please? they're testing something. I'm sorry. A fire has been reported in the building. Please leave the building by the nearest... Let me double check what's going on real quick. exit stairway. Do not use the elevators. Sorry. Hang on a second.

Rick Sola (06:04.898) Well, you all right over there?

Rick Sola (06:11.666) No, you... hey...

Rick Sola (06:16.982) Yeah, yeah, we'll hit, we'll pause right here, okay? I'll just kind of hang tight. Do what you need to do. Nope, you're good.

Rick Sola (00:01.788) All right, and we're back. Sean, you're back. Everything's OK. So let's start with that because I'm going to do a little editing here. But we just had a sounder go off and we were just talking about your new building. You know, this is a principal podcast. And isn't that just the way it goes that at any any given time you're going to drop what you're doing and you're going to head out and you got to take care of the the kids, the building, the staff or whatever. So do you mind catching us up a little bit? What happened?

Shawn Henderson (00:18.946) Absolutely.

Shawn Henderson (00:30.903) We just had something to do with the fire suppression system in the line.

And we've got guys here that are working on it. So I thought it might happen, but I had to go double check. So and especially, you know, going back to our conversation prior to the alarm is that, you know, when you have a brand new building, everything is new, every system is new. And so I've kind of joked that quite literally for the last X amount of years, I've kind of had two full time jobs. One of them was taking care of the business of this operation of building a new school. And the other was this, you know, small

side hobby called being a principal that we all know is all-encompassing. now about November 1st is the first time since August I was like I'm doing one job I'm the principal now and so it's felt good to to kind of roll back into that principal seat not project manager seat because it kind of occupied both there for a little while. I loved it though but it's it's okay to get back to the to the main thing so.

Rick Sola (01:32.446) Well, like you said, it's a unique opportunity. It's a once in a career opportunity. And from everybody I've worked with who has gone through it, I think that's all they want is once in a career. They don't want to open a second building, but the opportunity to open one is really pretty cool.

Shawn Henderson (01:42.412) Yeah.

Shawn Henderson (01:47.588) Well said and I completely agree, yes.

Rick Sola (01:50.036) I think where we left off was, and not to go back to this, but I just find this interesting because a buddy of mine did exactly what you did where they closed a building and opened a new one, but it turned into quite a bit of management and parameter setting of what can come with you from the old building. Was that something you put much thought into ahead of time or did it kind of present itself to you like, man, I need to really kind of establish what...

should and should not make its way over.

Shawn Henderson (02:21.782) No, I'm quite a planner. My background's in band directing. And so I always took kids all across the country when I was the band director in Scott City. And I always said for every minute of a band trip, I spend an hour planning, right? And so...

to run that equation. don't know what the math would be, but we didn't do anything happenstance coming into this new school. Took a couple field trips, went and met with Piper, talked to Justin with that new school there. We went to actually visited Curtis Stevens from his time in Salina. He is a superintendent now, but we went and took a field trip and all we talked about was, so how did you move an entire school? How did you, what was that

process, what did it look like? And so kind of that would be, you're kind of something I always stress to principals is you're not the first person to do this. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You'd be wise to reach out to people that are bright and have had this experience. And so I tried to model that. So I took a couple of field trips, took one of my assistant principals with me, superintendent, and we just picked the brains of really great people and said, how do we go about doing this? And so we felt like that that was time.

well spent and it helped things really, really run smoothly. Both for planning, getting rid of things, the way that we color coded all the rooms, the way that we color coded whole hallways, how the moving process went, how we ran the moving truck, I you name it. We tried to be very, very meticulous in our planning.

Rick Sola (03:56.477) I love that you brought up the you're not the first principle to do this. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes I think there's a maybe this is just me, but there's sometimes a temptation of like, you know, you feel like, no, this is my job. I need to I need to put together all of these things. Like, no, it's the whole working smarter, not harder, but tapping into those who have done it before. Surely there's things that did come up in those conversations with Justin and Piper and Salina, whatever that.

you hadn't thought of or didn't consider or, that is something I need to think about. And that's part of the value of the network, I would say.

Shawn Henderson (04:32.782) Yeah, 100%. Absolutely.

Rick Sola (04:35.656) You you touched on your band background and that was something I had. I noted when I watched you present at one of the conferences, I am a former social studies teacher and coach and my eyes were opened when I got into administration of the music world, the band world and the just extraordinary amount of work.

that goes into those programs. And you mentioned organization. The organization is incredible. So when you mentioned that, that was your background when I saw you present, that was my first, one of my thoughts was how valuable of preparation for you to now be sitting in this chair. I want to get to the road to the chair, but can you spend some time on just your band background and how that prepared you to be an administrator?

Shawn Henderson (05:29.228) Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I love analogies, so anybody that works with me understands I use them all the time, but you know, as a band director, you are the person up on the podium, but you're working with all these individual...

We'll call them departments, we call them sections in the band, right? And so as a principal, I have to orchestrate all of my sections to operate at the best possible way, to create the best product, and to perform at the highest possible level for all of our stakeholders and our kids. And as a band director, it was just that. It was standing on the podium, being sure to work with each of the individual sections, taking time with the individual players, building teamwork.

Al talking about, you know, just being really intentional to make our ensemble get better week to week. And band world, just like the football coaching world or any coaching world, it is about your culture. And I think the thing that I benefited the most as a band director is working on that culture piece and the individual and really making sure that we're bringing everybody along with us and everyone's doing their best. And so, yeah.

I attribute a lot of my learning and knowledge for team building and culture straight from my band experience. There's no doubt about it.

Rick Sola (06:51.486) What's an intentional piece of culture that you bring into your building? You could say at the start of the year, but even at semester, you've got a semester's worth of wear and tear, and you hope that people come back energized and invigorated to get moving again. But there's an important cultural piece and morale piece that's a part of any school. Is there anything that you do intentionally at the midpoint in the year?

Shawn Henderson (07:16.951) So all points of the year I wear hokas.

I asked my boss, said, look, I can't wear dress shoes. I walk too much. I think one of the pieces of advice that I always had is that a principal needs to be visible. My mentor, Neil George, who was the middle school principal in Scott City, he was incredible. He caught me once and he said, Sean, I think you need more hallways. And I said, I don't know what you're talking about. And he said, you need to take your energy and your passion and you need more hallways than just the music wing of the school. And really the next day I signed up for

admin classes. had never even thought about being a principal. And just like the story goes that, you know, it takes somebody to look at you and say this is what you should be doing. I took it to heart. And when he told me you need more hallways, I went and I immediately got my master's degree so that I could have more hallways. And since that time, I've tried to be the same person that I was as a band director, which is people first, be where the people are, making connections. And so I try to

be around my school all the time. But I do joke, know, Hoka is the only way I roll. But I try to be visible. I mean, we are our admin team, our four principals. We are walking our school. We are trying to be where the people are. And I think that's, for me, the most important element of my leadership is to connect with everybody right where they are.

Rick Sola (08:41.78) Sean, as a principal, now two months into my first pair of Hokas, I can't disagree with you one bit on the game changer that that can be. I have been in a situation where I was wearing a particular pair of dress shoes that were really uncomfortable. And just like you had the sounder go off, we had one of those on that particular day and we were outside in January for two hours going and I was walking in these shoes and I thought, oh my gosh, what am I doing? I do too much walking to be.

Uncomfortable.

Shawn Henderson (09:12.674) Yep, agree. Yeah, so I always joke with people. Hocus is the way to go. So I'm not corporately endorsed by them, which would be great. I'd love to be, but no. But I do think that's good advice I'd give principals too is you got to have comfortable shoes because we stand, we walk. It's part of our job all the time.

Rick Sola (09:32.615) It's been a very welcome part of the professional attire world that more and more comfortable shoes, tennis shoes type are being introduced. You it's interesting you mentioned the mentor that tapped you on the shoulder and because as you were talking earlier about opening your building, was drawn back to the most recent episode we had Courtney Dominy on and she is opening a building in August of next year. And so much of what you spoke about

was a previous conversation, but she also talked about that exact, that situation where somebody tapped her on the shoulder and she hadn't really considered it. And just like you did, and it just really, I've had a lot of conversations on here and I hear that so often where it is someone from the outside that recognizes an ability or some skillset that would really be applicable. And it's just really great to hear you say that. You mentioned band, so complete your road to the chair.

your principal of Hayes High School, your band director, fill in between what occurred.

Shawn Henderson (10:37.09) Yeah, when I left Scott City, I went to Ellenwood and I was the middle school and high school principal.

there for four years and after those four years our family kind of felt like we were ready for a little bit of a change and so I always joked that I went back to college in that I was the director of field experiences and licensure at Fort Hays State and those four years, the next four years that I was at Fort Hays, I went from being a principal to talking to them every day, assigning student teachers, teaching classes in the College of Ed and it was just super eye-opening for

me to work with people that were entering the profession, but also to literally pick up the phone every day, call principals, chat with them about my student teachers, but certainly talk to them about being a principal. And it was a great job. I loved that job. But to be honest, I just missed being a principal. And so I told my wife that I wanted to be a principal again. She said, that's fine, but we're not moving. She loved her job. She works in the district here as well. And so she said, if you can find a place to drive to and

So I went to Russell, was the principal in Russell the year before COVID and COVID year. Had a great, great time there, learned a lot, worked with great people. And then the opportunity that Marty Straub, who is the principal at Hayes High, retired and I was already living here in Hayes and this was a job that I'd been eyeing a long time. And so when he retired, I came in and again, happened to be that was five years ago and that was the time.

that they that we passed the bond and again that kind of once in a lifetime opportunity to sit in this chair. So yeah it has been so I was four years in Ellenwood four years at Fort Hayes and five years here in Hayes and then as the high school principal and two in Russell. So I've got some years in administration now I guess across both high school and college.

Shawn Henderson (12:42.48) you

Rick Sola (12:43.092) Yeah, that's great. And years in administration, and then there are times where it feels like, this is a brand new situation. You know, that's what's great about it, Mr. That's what I love about it is it's it's something new all the time. So that leads me to really what I consider like the anchor topic of today. You know, you are recommended for this, but this is something I really found valuable when I was at your sessions is you spent a lot of time talking about

Shawn Henderson (12:54.978) Yeah, that's for sure.

Rick Sola (13:11.528) how you protect the time of not just you as an administrative team, but also your teachers. What does that mean to you? What does that look like at Hayes High School?

Shawn Henderson (13:23.362) Yeah, so I'm going to fast forward a little bit to this morning. This is the first time that I've seen our team, our admin team and Chris Dries, who is one of our assistant principals. He's our newest member of our team as our athletic director and assistant principal. He came in and he said, wow, I only received a couple emails over the last two weeks. And to me, that's triumph. That is a is a statement about our culture. Every time I present, I ask the room, how many of you control emails with your staff?

No one ever raises their hand. So I'm not trying to say that I'm world trending or setting here, but there is something that we started a couple of years ago where I, got back from Thanksgiving or it would have been spring break. I looked at our admin team, the four of us who were sitting there in the midst of trying to plan this new school and all the things. This was probably three years ago. And I said, team, we've got to quit sending emails late at night to our staff. It's not a testament that we're hard workers.

It's we're reaching out and bothering them in their life and if they read that email the wrong way we're going to pull from them energy and emotion that is not fair or professional in my opinion so so for the next nine weeks as we face the the fourth quarter I'm gonna tell you and again. I'm only talking to my assistant principals. We're done emailing after six o'clock at night We're gonna lead by example, and then we'll take it to the next year so we did and then

the following year and people noticed immediately. The following year we told our staff at the beginning of the year meeting and I have a graphic that says communication guide and it has 6 p.m. and it has 6 a.m. and we just said you are not communicating with each other via email from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. We've now done that two full years and it has been probably the best thing that we could have done for our staff and

People can still get a hold of us, they do. You know, if there's an emergency, of course. But relative to email correspondence that...

Shawn Henderson (15:33.581) I'm sure this never happens to anybody. Passive aggressive email that happens at 8.05 AM on Saturday morning when you're trying to drink your coffee. That we've stopped. I take it one step further personally. I don't even have the email notifications on my phone, especially over the weekend. But we've now built it into our culture that 6 PM to 6 AM. It is the entire weekend as well. So we are just not emailing each other.

And it's taken some practice, but we're getting there.

Rick Sola (16:06.676) So Sean, was that something that was born out of maybe a certain situation or was it just, did you have a recognition like, my gosh, this has gotten out of control? mean, kind of what led you to make that decision?

Shawn Henderson (16:22.38) Yeah, really it starts with me is that like so many of my colleagues, we just carry all this around with us all the time and we hear the things and we read the phrases or the memes or the YouTube that says, hey, you got to leave things at work or whatever. But that's not very practical for a person that carries the level of responsibility that we all do as a principal. And so as I carried those things around to an unhealthy point, I analyzed what's the thing that's causing me

the most grief and it's the emails, it's that passive aggressive.

leading email that or em that happens after hours maybe just say, hey, know about that tomorrow, but t for me. And if it doesn' for me, it probably doesn for anybody. Um and then mo is I didn't want to be th an email that pulls that away from my staff. If, lose something in translat

sending an email and it c concern for a staff membe up or pulling time away fr to about something I started with our admin te that caught on, we do it w received a lot of thank y who say you're just allowi

Shawn Henderson (17:56.591) person that I don't have to work 24 hours a day.

Rick Sola (18:00.147) That's a really good point when you send an email. could be the most benign, intent email that you send. Hey, know, question about whatever, but that lost, could get lost in translation and it's received on a Saturday morning. And what did, what did principal Henderson mean by this? This is my boss. I, know, and you, you, they're, they're stewing over it. And it was maybe a nothing email, just an informational type deal, but

Because I'm sure you've probably been in that situation just throughout your career where you've received something and kind of jolts you a little bit like, well, what is that? What's the real intent behind this? And maybe there wasn't anything, but you're stewing over it.

Shawn Henderson (18:39.542) Yeah, exactly. so we tried to model it first, and now it's something that we're really proud of. And this morning when my assistant principal looked at me and he was like, look, he's like, it's amazing how few emails I've received. And I just smiled and I said, well, that's very much on purpose. And so I think that's a sign of our culture buying in and saying, yeah, let's try to protect this time.

Rick Sola (19:06.26) Do you see any byproduct from it, like guess unintended consequence in a good way that maybe it's generated some additional problem solving skills amongst people? Maybe rather than first reaction is I got to email, take some time, pause on it, and either some problem solving occurred or have you been able to recognize that at all?

Shawn Henderson (19:26.572) Yeah, for sure. The other thing that we do is, you know, we're a Canvas school, so we're running Canvas classrooms. We created a Canvas home page for the principals, so in this instance, we're the teachers of the Canvas page, and our students are the teachers. I'm sure other schools do this as well. But we call it the Hayes High Hub, and everything's on the hub. The agenda's on the hub, the resources, the handbook, the staff expectations, any resource that they need to be successful to do their job, we put on the hub.

And so one of the things that we've tried to do is that if someone emails us an information gathering email, we point them back to the hub. So not that we're trying to be passive aggressive or we're trying to not give them the information they're asking for, but if we're going to do it the right way and follow through with our Canvas page, we point them back there. So that's kind of something that we've also been trying to do.

you

Rick Sola (20:26.876) And, you know, kind of going back to the topic at hand, saving and protecting time with staff and teachers. You have a hub with information that's there. So someone is home at nine o'clock at night and they're trying to work through something. That's a place they can go.

Shawn Henderson (20:39.278) Yep, 24 hours a day, yes. And then, you the other thing that we've tried to do that I share often is we do more meetings but for way less time. So we stand by this practice called Tuesday 10. And Tuesday 10 is a 10-minute faculty meeting every Tuesday morning. And it is from 7.25 to 7.35. And that's it, not one second longer. And for us,

It's been fun. I even run the stopwatch. And so somebody could say, wow, that's not very much time. I say, right. So the things that we share are really valuable. But that's not why we did it. To be honest, I started Tuesday 10 because I wanted to see all the faces of my staff every Tuesday morning. When I was principal of a 2A school, I talked to every teacher every day. It's not as practical now with 70 teachers. I try. But on every Tuesday morning, I know.

going to see my people and we try to save the email level things for that time as our important touch point. The other thing that we follow up with the Tuesday 10 is a winning Wednesday. I stole this idea from the elementary principals in our district and they they call it what I need now win and once I heard that phrase I went okay that's it I'm stealing it we're going to do win and so we do a winning Wednesday and we feed the staff every Wednesday.

fun snacks, healthy, not healthy, a little bit of both. And we put our counseling team there, we put the admin team there, we try to have a secretary on site, and we're basically like parent-teacher conference style where we kind of sit around and if one of our teachers need to come and meet with one of us, they can. So we, a real touch point to where they're like, hey, by the

this was really important when we had a brand new school, my new door is not locking correctly. So they could bring that to me on a Wednesday instead of emailing me. I've got my notes there, making sure that I'm covering things that need to be taken care of. And so that's kind of the way that we've been communicating. And I've shared that when I've presented recently. And it's really worked well for us. A, because people love free food. B, maybe they don't want anything. They just want to be around adults that are not teenagers to talk to.

Shawn Henderson (23:08.848) come and eat some food, smile at a friend and leave and we found a lot of success with that and have really enjoyed it.

Rick Sola (23:16.36) I really like the Tuesday 10 idea and we do a monthly staff meeting and there's times I refer to it as our staff celebration time, you know, because it kind of frames a little differently, but it really is for us a time to be intentional about recognizing and celebrating each other. But like you said, it is a time not just for us to see their faces and interact, but for them to see each other and especially in a high school.

as big as you are, you've got different wings and different things. You may not see that person. It could be early in the year, and you may not realize that person, who is this person that's maybe new to the building? And it's a chance to see each other and kind of have that camaraderie that we all have a part to play in this building.

Shawn Henderson (24:05.568) Agreed and we start every Tuesday 10 with shout outs and and it's fun to watch the teachers shout out each other and I think it does and again talk about a positive school culture. I think it does bring that that level of pride and care and concern for each other, which is awesome.

Rick Sola (24:24.222) So Sean, I appreciate you sharing all that. And as we transition here into the second half of the school year and thinking about maybe there's a principal who's in their first year or an aspiring principal, what advice would you give to somebody who may be going into their first, second semester as a principal or just advice in general as an administrator?

Shawn Henderson (24:47.714) Yeah, so.

One of the great pieces of advice that my band director from high school shared with me, Connie Rickard, she said, don't create a rule that you don't intend to enforce. And I've used that my entire life, both as a teacher and certainly as a principal. And then my mentor when I got to Ellenwood is the great, great elementary principal, Eric Shugrin from Lindsburg. And he always told me, he said,

if someone starts a fire, they should feel the warmth of that fire. And I said, I'm not following you. And he said, Sean, I've watched you. You're really good at solving problems. You're so good at it sometimes that you solve it for the person that created the problem in the first place. And that advice really made me think a little bit. So, wasn't too long into my principal, first principal job, I went and listened to Todd Whitaker speak. He's a great writer on.

on administration and he has that great book, Shifting the Monkey, which I love the analogy of that. And he always talks about that the monkey, we all carry monkeys, but sometimes we pick on the people that are really good at carrying them. So you have a staff, you have that one person that's carrying all the monkeys, and then you have a couple staff members who are just pleased as ever that those people are carrying the monkeys for them. A great leader puts those monkeys where the monkeys go. And that analogy has been really profound for me.

And the other thing that Todd Whitaker says in his book, and I think it's great, is you should focus on your best people. And I remember that as a band director, is I could stare at 65 of my band kids, and I loved them all, and we were all trying to do this great thing, but I could see the couple kids that hated it. And for the first couple years of my teaching, all I could see was the kids that didn't like it. They occupied all my thoughts. Couple years into being a band director, it dawned on me that my focus needs to be on the people

Shawn Henderson (26:48.304) that are really into this because they're the ones that are going to drive this bus. And that's the advice I would give to a newer principal is you've got to get with the people that are really buying into what you're doing because they're going to be the one that drive this bus the right direction. The others will follow. They will.

Rick Sola (27:07.988) I wrote down your quote, if you start a fire, you should feel the warmth of that fire. Really, that's pretty profound. you know, it can kind of generate a chuckle, maybe even almost like initially cynical, but really, like, there's some value to that. I think about the times where I've had to feel the warmth of a fire that maybe I was a part of. That's how you learn. And that's how you adjust and correct for moving forward. So it's not necessarily

a negative thing, but probably an important valuable professional growth thing.

Shawn Henderson (27:41.867) for sure. And if you think about teachers, all of us that are in education, we kind of like to avoid conflict, which I get. But the thing is, is that if I never ever get near the warmth of that conflict, I'm not going to have any resolution skills. I'm not.

I'm not going to be able to learn how to work through the things that are challenging. And I think what Eric did for me is he reminded me, Sean, it's OK that if there's conflict, you can help a teacher through it. You don't just need to use all your skills to make it go away. it really took a while for me to work through that in my head, what he was after. And I've shared that with people ever since, is that that's how people grow.

Rick Sola (28:23.059) Well, that's empowering too, though, to hear as a new principle, perhaps, because I think there's that feeling of I have to solve everything and I have not done my job well if I didn't solve it. But to be able to know, like, step back and let a person kind of work through whatever situation with your guidance, that's probably the more appropriate balance of leadership versus just swooping in and taking over.

Shawn Henderson (28:47.084) Yeah, and I think the best thing that I tell my staff is, it's completely fine if you use the words, I think it would be best if we engage Mr. H in this conversation. That's me, Mr. H, sorry. And it doesn't mean that you have not done your job. It just means that it's okay understanding that maybe the thing that you're working through, the parent conversation that's turning negative, of course it may not go well. That's just part of human nature. Then my boss tries to do that for me if a parent says,

something to me and it's okay for me to say, k would be best if we en in this. And I understand trust there. But when we are about human interaction, opportunity that things d that's okay. Um, and we c and think one of the wa our staff is to tell them through a situation that's to say, I'd really like to in this conversation beca

That kind of allows them an out, but it's then now they have someone else to work through again to get a positive outcome.

Rick Sola (29:56.392) And that's a really good tool to give your teachers. Sometimes they don't know how to get out of a conversation they feel is going south and maybe then it gets derailed. But to be able to go to, know, I just think it'd be good to involve our principal. I think that's a really good tool just to have in their toolbox. Well, Sean, you have shared a lot and you've referenced a lot of really not just great things, but great people out at Hays. This is an opportunity. It's a state podcast here to brag on.

your people that you get to be with every day and the people of the Hays community.

Shawn Henderson (30:29.612) Yeah, I mean, the thing that I, and I can't not talk about a brand new school. It's too real because it's right here.

what it takes to take a school and move next door into a brand new building that is just an incredible amount of work for our staff. Their level of dedication, their level of care and support and endless hours to make sure that things are the best for our kids is incredible. The timeline, of course, like all projects, got real compressed at the end. Our teachers had to put in tremendous amount of energy and effort.

to get the school year re what educators do. They didn't want the kids to kind have not quite ready for you exp we're gonna open this do and we're gonna make it h Ron Wilson has done a gre pace and saying we're go our people, it's the rig I've just been so incredi how hard our people in ou

and worked through everything's a first. We never had a home football game. We always played at Fort Hayes, so we had a first football game. We just built a softball stadium. We've always played off-site. We've never hosted a track meet. We didn't have our own auditorium inside the building. Everything is a first, which is exciting, but it means there's a lot of infrastructure that goes with it. And so, yeah, I'm just really, really, really, really proud of our team and the incredible work that they've done.

to make this place a home so quickly.

Rick Sola (32:14.099) And everything you just described, the way you articulated your first football, home football game, and softball and so forth, what a great sense of community pride. You have a brand new, I haven't seen it, I'm sure it's a beautiful building that the community gets to see and be a part of, and to be able to see the evolution that led to that. And then now you've got a middle school, it sounds like, that's being renovated a little bit, and they're moving in.

awesome for communities to be able to go through. So congratulations to you and your people out there for getting through it and getting through all the, you you open the doors, it's not like everything's magical and brand new, just like we saw earlier in this podcast, you know, some things will continue to come up.

Shawn Henderson (32:58.966) Yeah, for sure. And you just take your team and you just face whatever's there coming at you. And again, our team is Becky Hickert, who's Assistant Principal Fred Winter, who's another Assistant Principal, and Chris Dries, who is our Assistant Principal AD. And they've been helping lead this charge that has been substantial, but also super, super rewarding.

Rick Sola (33:24.925) Well, awesome. Well, Sean, thanks for taking the time today and for coming back after some building needs that popped up. I appreciate your time. And I know it's a kind of a brief calm before we get back to the storm of the school year. But there's so many great things ahead, I'm sure. So all the best to you as you get started in 2026.

Shawn Henderson (33:46.818) Thanks, you as well.

Contact the host: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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In this conversation, Cool Coffee host, Rick Sola, interviews Courtney Domoney, the principal of the upcoming Wolf Springs Middle School in Blue Valley School District. They discuss the unique challenges and opportunities of opening a new school, including the importance of building a strong team, creating a welcoming culture, and engaging with the community. Courtney shares her journey in education, her vision for the new school, and the significance of the 'runway year' she has to prepare for the opening in August 2026.

Connect with the guest: 

Email: CDomoney@bluevalleyk12.org

Website: https://wsm.bluevalleyk12.org/

Find more episodes like this one at https://coolcoffee.podbean.com or at your favorite podcasting platform. 

Chapters (timestamps do not account for intro music)

00:00 Introduction to Wolf Springs Middle School 05:43 The Journey to Principalship 11:44 The Runway Year: Preparing for Opening 14:14 Staffing and Building the Team 19:26 Creating a Welcoming Culture 24:59 Anticipating Challenges in a New School 31:01 Holiday Reflections and Community Connections

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

YOUR input on Cool Coffee is NEEDED! Click HERE to share thoughts and interest for you or a colleague on being on the show!

Click for ALL Cool Coffee episodes!

Connect with Cool Coffee on...

Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee

Facebook: KSPrincipals

Contact the host: rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

Full Transcript (timestamps do not account for intro)

Rick Sola (00:01.762) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee. I'm here today with Mrs. Courtney Domoney from Blue Valley School District, USD 229 and the principal of the yet to be Wolf Springs Middle School opening August, 2026. Welcome Courtney.

Courtney Domoney (00:40.44) Hi, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Rick Sola (00:42.806) Yeah, of course. And I'm excited to have a conversation here in December. We're recording this December 3rd, 2025, and your building will open August of 2026. so and it's interesting as we're talking and I see the board behind you with so many different notes and thoughts and things to remember that we'll get to, I'm sure. But really an exciting time. And so before we get into that, just a reminder to listeners, please

Give the show a follow, give it a like, and help share the stories from our amazing principals here in this great state of Kansas, and help invest in our collective growth in this wonderful principal profession. And Courtney, I'm super excited to talk to you about this. First of all, you're right down the road for me in Blue Valley, but opening up a brand new middle school, what an adventure. What do you, what'd you do today?

Courtney Domoney (01:41.868) To date, so this year is very different for me and I'm sure we'll talk about that, but I'm actually not in a building, have been a building principal before, but this year I'm at district office and was given this year as kind of a runway year to prepare for the school. And as August got started, I was like, what am I gonna do? But every day has just, know, progress has been made and gotten so much busier. So today I was at a meeting with all district administrators, just kind of a December update.

something that we regularly do. I then actually went out to the school site and gave a tour to a parent who is on my parent advisory committee and wasn't able to join our last parent advisory committee group. Came back, talked with one of our world language directors or coordinators because we have a Chinese immersion program that'll be moving to our new school and we kind of had a pre-discussion about staffing for that program so that we can make sure to be out front of that.

And gosh, just, every day has been so different and it's kind of like ping pong all day long.

Rick Sola (02:48.3) So, okay, so, simple question, what'd you do today? And now I've got like 50 new questions and we're like knee deep already. And I guess let's start at the basics. What is your mascot going to

Courtney Domoney (02:52.782) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (03:04.206) We are the Coyote. And that, what's think unique about this school opening, there has not been a new middle school in Blue Valley since 2011. And since that time, there have been two elementary schools that have opened. And so for this opening, something that's different than the most recent schools is the mascot, the school colors and the name have already been defined and were.

a year ago, January. So it was really important to the committee of people that were building this school from the ground up that we had an identity from the get-go. And so there was a student group two years ago from two different middle schools, one of which I was principal at at the time, that got to provide input on various facets of the building with the architecture team prior to the breaking of ground. And one of the pieces they actually got to

to give feedback at the end of that process was in mascots. so coyotes are native to Kansas. Wolf Springs Middle School, our school, is near Coffee Creek and the coyote was a mascot that, you know, a coyote had been, you know, again in this area. But also there are no other coyotes, so it's unique to our district and we get to be the first coyotes.

Rick Sola (04:24.182) Yeah, love and I love that you call it coyote because I've heard people say coyote and I get corrected in my own household. And so is that going to be a thing? You know, really get into the important details of opening a school.

Courtney Domoney (04:29.555) Yes. Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (04:35.187) Yeah, the important details first. So actually, I've just decided, because I figured I could, that we're the coyotes, but my assistant principal has already been named and he has coined the term go-yotes. So I feel like that kind of speaks to the coyote pronunciation, but we think the kids will think that's cool and I could see it on a t-shirt.

Rick Sola (04:55.586) Yeah. Go Yotes. That is cool, for me it's coyote. but yeah, that's awesome. It's funny because I did see that. Like, there's some pronunciations there. So what colors did they decide to go with?

Courtney Domoney (05:01.879) Right, it's...

Courtney Domoney (05:10.047) So our colors also were designed and unveiled just recently, but there are different shades of blues and teals, not primary colors. They actually kind of remind me of, you're familiar with the Kansas City area, the KC Current colors. There's teal and navy. We have fancy names for them because of the making sure we get the colors correct, but there's no red unlike the KC Current. But the students so far that have had a chance to see them, the colors were selected.

and chosen to be unique, to be exciting to kids. And the staff members we have, they're excited about them as well. But teals, navies, grays. So we're not, it will be a little different. I think that brings up a good like school function thing. A lot of schools have one or two school colors. We have a panel of six. Chartreuse is actually one of them. So kind of that lime green color too.

Rick Sola (06:03.638) Okay.

Courtney Domoney (06:04.593) and we're gonna have a great palette from which to choose to really get our brand out there and some spirit wear. The building itself on the interior will eventually have some massive graphics that really have that brand out near forefront on walls and stairwells, things like that.

Rick Sola (06:25.164) Yeah, you'll have a lot of fun with the spirit wear aspect, a lot of options, I'm sure. So I guess going back even further, and we'll start with your road to the chair and everything that's led you up to where you're at today and you've been principal before, but your road in education, where did it start and we'll get to where it's taken you.

Courtney Domoney (06:29.812) Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (06:37.324) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (06:46.751) Yeah, I went to college in Kansas at KU and actually was a French education major. I wanted to be a French teacher. I had a great French teacher in high school. from the Wichita area and studied abroad in college, got engaged in college in France and

really just saw myself only being a French teacher. was my dream job. My first job ever was in the Blue Valley School District and I've never left. So this is my 21st year in Blue Valley and my 21st year in education. Throughout, once I started teaching, my first job were three years in middle school here in Blue Valley. And I really ultimately wanted to be a high school French teacher and got that opportunity after my first three years of teaching and then...

was at one of the high schools here in our district and I was there for five and a half years.

finishing my master's, you know, early on in my teaching career. The first time I, my first master's degree was in curriculum and instruction and I just kind of did that to move over on the pay scale. know, teachers are used to doing that, but I kept thinking, like, I felt this urge to want to do a little bit more and so I got an ESOL endorsement at one point. Started thinking about considering a gifted education certification as well and it was actually

when I was teaching and had had both of my kids who are in high school now, I had an opportunity to become a department chair. And you know, as fast as my career had moved and you know, growing family leadership in school wasn't something that I had really been part of. I had sponsored clubs and done extracurricular activities as a teacher, but I had an opportunity to...

Courtney Domoney (08:31.283) interview for a department chair position, world language department chair at the high school I was working at, and got that position and...

It almost like clicked instantly for me. All of a sudden, I realized how much I liked seeing how decisions were made at the building level. I liked hearing, you know, the principal describe various problems that we were going to be solving or goals that we were going to be working towards and seeing how a group of people could provide input and help make those decisions happen. And so pretty shortly after becoming the department chair at the high school I was working at, my principal one day said to me,

and I still remember it, he said, I think you'd be a good administrator if you ever wanted to be. And I literally had never thought about it. However, as a high school and college student, leadership was a really big part of my life growing up. Just as a teacher, I never really thought about more than teaching because that was what I'd wanted to be when I grew up. And I thought, there's no way that I can go get another master's degree. You know, we had two young kids at the time and I thought that's a financial, you know,

burden to take on to think about going back to school. But I mentioned it to my husband and he was incredibly supportive and I only looked at Baker University because that was where a lot of educators and administrators I knew had attended and just, the bell got rolling really quickly. So my path to from starting Baker to finishing Baker was pretty quick and actually in the middle of my sixth year at the high school, my gosh.

ninth year of teaching, there was an opportunity to become an administrative intern in the district and it was in the middle of the school year, which felt really risky. But I went ahead and went for it, took it and left my classroom after winter break to become an intern at a different high school in the district.

Courtney Domoney (10:27.937) that really, it was really difficult at first because going from your French classroom where you really don't have lot of behaviors, everybody's choosing to be in that elective class, you know, it was such a fun job. Loved my students, had a chance to have them, you know, all four years in high school or for three years in middle school, both of those, you know, time periods to all of a sudden, you know, not really knowing anything about being a principal except I passed the test and I took all

of the classes and having to talk about behavior for the first time, call parents with discipline issues were not things that were part of my teaching life. But I was, you I learned a ton and was actually given the opportunity to be an administrative intern in three different schools, two middle schools and a high school in a year and a half. And then I landed at a middle school in Blue Valley as an assistant.

Because I've only been in our district for my whole career, I've actually worked at eight or nine different schools during that time, mostly as my administrative path continued. But I ended up being principal at Oxford Middle School for the last six years until now.

Rick Sola (11:33.196) Mm-hmm.

Rick Sola (11:39.779) Wow. You mentioned a principal tapped you on the shoulder and just kind of made a comment. as I think of that, because I'm in year 22, so we're very similar, and Baker, so we have some overlap actually, but I think about that and it's kind of like when you're a teacher and it's oftentimes the things you don't think about that have made an impact on a student. I wonder if that principal was very intentional about that or if it was just a comment that

Courtney Domoney (11:45.079) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (11:50.381) Yeah.

Rick Sola (12:07.928) was like, hey, I recognize this in you, because I hear so many times where people share a similar story where they were discovered first, they were told first by somebody else, they never considered it, and it kind of sparked something. And it's amazing to think about, yeah, what kind of impact we can have and now be in year 21, 22 in the profession. Yeah, it kind of makes you reflect on like, I wonder if there's been a comment that I've made. Hopefully they've been positive and left a impact.

Courtney Domoney (12:20.703) Yeah, it was life-changing.

Courtney Domoney (12:29.154) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (12:35.595) And I hope so, right? But yeah, think thinking about it in that regard, know teachers I've worked with that have become administrators or are pursuing that path, but I'm not certain if any of it had anything to do with comments I've made, but I know that it made a difference for me.

Rick Sola (12:50.764) Yeah. So you are, you're now, I love that you called it the runway year. I don't know. I've never heard it called that. I think it's like a perfect analogy of where you're at right now. and most of us in the principal chair have, have not, and are not going through what you've gone through. So you were named, when were you named the principal of Wolf Springs? Okay.

Courtney Domoney (13:14.965) last January. So I applied for the position around mid-November of last year was when it opened up. And then

did not interview though until January was posted. This time of year we've got Thanksgiving and winter break and all of those things. So I interviewed actually on a snow day. I asked, can I still come in? Because interviewing is something that you prepare for and I was ready to go. So I interviewed and then was named in January of last year.

Rick Sola (13:46.859) And so you shared a little bit of where you're at and it's interesting to hear just picking a day randomly today and hearing all that you're doing. like, what was your first order of business? You're named, congratulations, you're the new principal. Here you go. What's your first step at that point?

Courtney Domoney (13:54.306) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (14:06.378) So for, you know, I finished the semester as principal at my former middle school and I realized really quickly because again, not all principals that open up new schools are given this runway year, but our district had learned the last time or two with elementary is that that was incredibly helpful. And I realized right away, thank goodness I had that time because second semester in a middle school or any school level for that matter is crazy. You have enrollment, you have, you know,

you're planning for the upcoming year, you've got hiring, you just have so many end of the year events. so probably the first Wolf Springs thing that I really had an opportunity to be part of was the selection and the identification of the assistant principal for this school. Our district decided to again do something unique with this in identifying an assistant principal for this year who's actually

So our school is being built like many are to alleviate the size of another middle school that's been very large for some time. So in the southern part of our district, that's where the growth has been. And so I was able to be part of the interview process and help select the assistant principal who this year is a second assistant. And in our district, our middle schools only have a head principal and one assistant. And so he's a second assistant at this school, which is large enough to necessitate that extra support. But

He will then come and be my assistant principal. His name is Chris Huggard. He's amazing. Next year at Wolf Springs. And so this year he's working at the school that, you know, the students who will come to us, a lot of the staff who will eventually be Wolf Springs staff will all come over and have that relationship with him. So that was that was the first order of business.

Rick Sola (15:53.081) Yeah, and that's great for him and you that he's working side by side with many of the students that will be with you next year.

Courtney Domoney (16:00.306) Exactly.

Rick Sola (16:02.146) So, you know, aside from you mentioned what today looked like in a very, you know, a very a lot of variety in the day. But what's kind of what's the pressing topic right now? It's December. You're nine months or eight months away from opening. What's kind of got you occupied the most right now?

Courtney Domoney (16:06.74) Yeah.

Sure.

Courtney Domoney (16:22.892) I would say right now staffing is the biggest piece that I'm focused on and our district is as well. Just in November, we finalized our vision team is what we're calling it, but really a small group, a small leadership team of staff who are what are considered now early hires for Wolf Springs for next year. All of them happen to be educators in our district currently, but at other schools. And so we went through

interview process, interviewed many candidates, amazing people that you know were interested in coming, leading, and helping to open a new school. And so we have now had an opportunity to meet twice. You know we're trying to find days where they we could potentially get some coverage as well as some after-school time to really start you know getting to know each other.

One thing that I'll, this doesn't necessarily answer the whole staffing piece, but an interesting thing, again, with this building project is the architecture firm has a strand that is called the Bold Team Bridging Organization Learning and Design. And they have a team that includes a former school superintendent. And the hope is, you know, with new schools,

There are spaces that will look different, feel different, and they are providing professional learning to our team and eventually at some point the whole staff so that we understand and can think about how can we really use this new space to enhance student learning and not just always assume to do the things we've always done instructionally. You know, if we have small breakout rooms, if our furniture may be different or arranged in different places, that that's really done in partnership and intentionally by

the bold team and the architecture firm that designed the building. And so that's really using this new, this vision team, this leadership team to help then eventually welcome the whole new staff in and have people that have had a chance to really take part in those workshops and those conversations.

Courtney Domoney (18:31.028) That's something that we've just been recently engaged in. As it will be January here in just a few weeks, we will start the staffing process for the school. so.

because again, Wolf Springs is opening because another middle school has been so large for so long. There's a process by which staff will have a chance to select or be identified to go to the new school. And we're getting ready to start that, looking at projections of enrollment, which is earlier. I'm thinking in your district as well, it's probably, you're not quite ready to think about enrollment, but.

We've got a lot of details to consider to make sure we're bringing over people that we know what jobs that they'll be fulfilling, looking at certification and all kinds of things like that.

Rick Sola (19:19.33) Yeah, there is a lot there and we hear oftentimes in any kind of either business or school establishment the analogy of family and I've always liked that because you can't pick your family, you work together through thick and thin, all those things. But in this case, you are picking your family a little bit, you get a hire. so talk a little bit about what does that, I guess, balance look like? mean, what's really great is you've got a

Courtney Domoney (19:38.997) Great.

Rick Sola (19:48.671) a vision for a brand new school with new features and you can speak to that and really be thinking about that as you're selecting people, but there's still kind of the balance of, you know, just the way personalities mesh together and that sort of thing. And have you thought much about that or is that are you at that point yet?

Courtney Domoney (20:06.582) Yeah.

Definitely, you know, when I think about the opportunity to open a new building is a once in a career opportunity, but I know that it will only be, the school will only be as good as the people and the culture that we create. And so obviously our students are not yet in the building, the staff isn't either, but.

the our assistant principal, we were really intentional about selecting the people that we selected and also thinking about just the breakdown of your certified staff. And I wanted to make sure that I have somebody from each grade level that we have sixth, seventh and eighth grade. We chose an elective teacher because that's a big part of the middle school life and a big chunk of your staff, honestly, a librarian, because, you know, hopefully that's that's a program in a place that connects all of all

of the experiences that your kids have in various classes, a special education teacher just to help make sure that we're thinking about student and staff needs, all the aspects that go into making sure that our students receive the services that they provide.

There are six of us, so I'm like, who's the sixth? Okay, sixth, seventh, eighth, library, special education, elective, that's it. And so, like you said, building that family, that's something I'm super passionate about is making sure that we are prepared and that we create a vision together to then take care of and welcome our staff once that identification process begins. You know, there's...

Courtney Domoney (21:41.226) Change can be hard. It is really exciting. And I think there's going to be lots of people that just can't wait to come. But there are some people that will be educators for us that were pretty comfortable where they were. And just by the nature of making sure that we have enough staff members to fill our building. And I want to make sure that we can take care of and really welcome and support all of our staff as they come over. So it's definitely a balance of, you know,

like you just said, the understanding of and the vision for the building design and what it can do for student learning, but then also making sure that we've created a culture where people are supported, inspired, and we spend more time at work typically than we do at our own homes at times. And so that's something that we're already thinking of.

Rick Sola (22:33.196) Yeah, no, that's like you said, it's a once in a career opportunity and just really, really pretty special, you know, that.

That building will be there a long, long time and you get to be the first principal of that building. And that's really cool. You mentioned enrollment in spring. And like you said, it does kind of creep up because I always want to get like our numbers as soon as we can possibly get our numbers. But it can only happen on a certain timeline. thinking about enrollment, you get your numbers, but you oftentimes with enrollment there, especially first time middle school parents, which you'll have, you know, there's kind of some.

Courtney Domoney (22:45.596) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (22:57.28) Yes. Right.

Rick Sola (23:12.92) aspect of either welcoming them or even prior to the school year. So what or is that going to look like with spring once you kind of get enrollment? Do you have any availability to be able to do a meet and greet that early or is it is that even on the radar?

Courtney Domoney (23:30.644) So one thing that we've already done, I've worked with our district communications team and we have created quarterly videos to be able to show families what the building is looking like. And that I think has been really positively received because you can only drive by and see so much. right now it's a construction site and you can't really drive in because it's a mud pit after all the rain and snow that we've had. So that's been a way using social media to connect and

highlight, you know, right now it looks like this, we have, you know, really creative people that have been able to show renderings and what the building is going to look like and different things like that. So that's been one way to engage with the community.

You know, I think in a lot of schools, especially the beginning of middle school is such a jump from elementary for students and their families. And so with our fifth graders, we have already identified an enrollment night, which is something that's a practice here. But what we can't do is have it at our school. And so we really thought long and hard. There's an one of the elementaries that will be our feeder is right on site with the middle school. But we felt like that might not be as welcoming to families from the other elementary feeder. And so we're actually going to

have it at Blue Valley Southwest High School. You know, we wanted to create a neutral place, but a place that also made sense just for the community. And so we are looking forward to doing that. Want to have our vision team, those teacher leaders be present and so that, you know, they'll see that we're starting to create our staff and building that excitement and support for kids. What we are hoping is...

that over the summer, once we're able to be in the building, we're really wanting to do meet and greets and invite families in. We are looking to create later this year, probably like April, May, to help identify student ambassadors that we know will be middle school students coming to be leaders at the new school and have them help actually lead some of those tours and just get people excited and get...

Courtney Domoney (25:35.74) get in the building when we can so that it's not, we don't, we certainly don't want the very first time that our students or families enter the building to be on August 13th.

Rick Sola (25:45.293) Very cool. You mentioned summer. When do you expect to be able to like actually work out of the building? I know there'll be there'll be odds and ends probably up through August 13th. But when do you expect to get your office and kind of do some work inside?

Courtney Domoney (25:54.464) rate.

Courtney Domoney (26:01.787) So I've learned a lot about construction for someone who's never built a home and there are phases to the release of the building and the front office will be the last part to be built because they want to get the classrooms ready, right? That's where we need to make sure that all the technology and HVAC and plumbing that people are going to be in most of the time is really, really ready. so classrooms will be actually released in April, but the front office will not get released.

until June 12th.

Rick Sola (26:33.376) Wow, okay. makes sense the way to hear you explain it, but like that is not what I would have expected, I guess, when thinking through that.

Courtney Domoney (26:36.808) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (26:41.127) Yeah, it was interesting. I was over at the school today and one of the awesome people from Macowan Gordon, who's the construction firm that's out there every day, he was explaining that to me and he just said, there's just so many more things in the classroom spaces that we have to make sure are prepared. So for example, those will be ready in mid April. The gyms that are very large spaces and a lot happens in there have less of the constraints that classrooms do, fewer, you know, pieces of technology.

Etc. And so the gyms will also be after classrooms. But yeah, June 12th is when the office will be ready. And so the city will not release the building to be worked in to answer your question until June 12th of this summer. Yes, there's a roof. covered. Almost every single window is installed now.

Rick Sola (27:23.961) Is there a roof on it yet? Is it covered? It is. Okay. That's good.

Courtney Domoney (27:32.339) And I mean, the progress is taking place or is happening very quickly. Every time I go out, which is usually one to two times a week, you know, they're starting to paint various parts of some classrooms and just different things like that. So it's really fun to see it come along.

Rick Sola (27:48.973) That's what's always struck me with such a large project. You have the rooms that are painted and finished, and then you've got an office that has like they're still in studs and they're not even doing anything. Yeah. No, that's great. You know, you've probably encountered lots of challenges already. What are some of the challenges that you're you're trying to anticipate? You know, I think there's always that sense of like, you know,

Courtney Domoney (27:55.87) Yeah, yeah, the office is just the steel beams right now.

Rick Sola (28:14.552) of what I don't know is, you the concern of what I don't know, but what are you trying to anticipate and get ahead of and challenges, maybe talking with others who have been through this?

Courtney Domoney (28:22.943) You know, so I think there's a logistical part to any project. And I feel like I've kind of just accepted that, you know, there may be a few things on day one or even month one that aren't quite what we wanted or that we uncover, you know, an error or an issue somewhere physically within the building. And I just know that that's gonna get taken care of. You know, I have visited a school in Lee's Summit recently that...

that opened in the last year or two. And she talked about on the first day of school realizing when it was time for the Pledge of Allegiance, they didn't have flags, stuff like that. So I feel like those are small things. Those are things that will take up some of our time and efforts. But honestly, kind of going back to the creation of our vision team and the hiring process, really wanting to...

Rick Sola (28:59.672) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (29:13.651) take care of the people moving to a new school, whether that be student or it's really students and staff.

in our district, in this portion of our district, that's where the growth has been in the last, you know, 10, 15 years. And so we will have students who have moved elementary schools twice and now have to move a middle school within that time. And families who have been through multiple school transitions based on the growth and new buildings being built. And so that's really what I won't say it keeps me up at night, because I know we're going to, you know, wrap around these families and these kids. But making sure that

they feel welcomed, that they feel excited, and that they feel like this school is theirs. That to me is the most pressing issue. so ways to wrap around that, I have a student advisory committee at both of the elementary feeders. I've met with a middle school student advisory committee and I have a parent advisory group. And so we'll meet five times each group probably this year. I've already met with both all of those groups twice and gotten really good feedback.

One of those things being actually our parents said we want the kids to feel like they're all new next year. A lot of times in a middle school you focus on just your new students, which is maybe a smaller group, but your sixth graders, for example. You you make that a big deal because the beginning of middle school is such a transition. And so we are planning to host a kind of a camp in August for all students to come.

and have building tours and go through activities. And that's something that sometimes just sixth grade students have had an opportunity to participate in. And so I think the problems are just wanting people to be excited about school, because we love school, we're educators. But then making plans and getting people involved so that we can make sure it happens.

Rick Sola (31:16.396) Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the whole like new middle school because you're right. You've got some families that have been maybe they're on their third or fourth child who's gone through other middle school and now their boundary is sending them to the new and it's easy to be excited. It's a brand new building bells and whistles all these things. But for some people it's no you're taking me from I can't go to where my the rest of the family have attended. And so there's a little bit of that.

Courtney Domoney (31:30.281) Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (31:41.097) rate.

Rick Sola (31:42.838) And so that is a reality anytime there's a new building, because yeah, you're right. That's something to keep in mind.

Courtney Domoney (31:48.585) Well, and so for some of our middle schoolers, our sixth and seventh graders this year who will be seventh and eighth graders, some of their friends are not going to go to the new middle school. You they'll all end up at the same high school in our feeder pattern. So, you know, that's comforting. so having to be really intentional about creating relationships with all students. And I thought our parents gave great feedback. Treat all of the kids like new students next year. And so that's that's what we're starting kind of in the early stages of planning that.

Rick Sola (32:15.394) Well, that's great. It sounds like you have lot of different voices that are really positive and productive to be able to kind of help steer some things. And I don't know if you want to speak too much about it, but as I'm seeing you here, this is obviously an audio podcast only, but you've got a board behind you with all sorts of, just looks like, I mean, there's a lot of thoughts up there. What's going on behind you there?

Courtney Domoney (32:37.662) There are, yeah.

So this, says welcome to Wolf Springs. So the very first day I moved into this office, I wrote that because that I was kind of like, what do I do? You know, I had to figure out everything with lots and lots of support, but at the end of the day, I needed to make sure that my mind was wrapped around it correctly. But we actually have a new strategic plan this year. So our district has a strategic plan that was brand new this year. And I made sure to write down our three priorities.

for that so that I can make sure as we are making decisions that it aligns to what our district sees for the entire school district. And then I started thinking about questions that I would want to ask students, parents, and our vision team as we started to get to know them. But I've definitely had just transition on my mind. so like questions I wanted to ask students were, you know, what is something you love about your current school that you would want to take to the new school?

Another, but on the flip side, there an idea that you have that you wish that your current school did that we could think about? Parents, I asked, know, if you, for those of you who have been through multiple new schools,

If you had a great transition, awesome, but if there was something that would make it better, what might that be? And being able to share all of that within our vision team and starting to work together, and again, we've only met a few times, but how can we put some of these hopes, wishes, and dreams into action?

Rick Sola (34:14.36) Yeah, I imagine there's probably new thoughts and ideas that just kind of fire at random. I don't know if you carry a notepad with you or it's in your phone or whatever it is, but I can imagine. No, it's really cool. I wish it could be seen because it just looks like a really good thought board. And I love that. I don't know. To me, that there's some humor in the fact that if you walk in, it's an empty office, a blank board and well, welcome to Wolf Springs. And then, you know, well, here we go. You know, it just.

Courtney Domoney (34:21.534) Yeah.

Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (34:41.148) Yeah, here we go.

Rick Sola (34:43.16) Well, it's going to be awesome and all the best to you in the coming months. And I'm sure it probably feels a distance away, but it'll be here also very, very quickly. things, you just like in the schools, you get into the springtime and things move so quickly, and as I'm sure it will for you as well. You know, we are recording this, I mentioned on December 3rd and

We're headed into the holidays and so just a little fun, a little trivia for you before I give you a chance to brag on all the people out in Blue Valley. what is your Mount Rushmore of Christmas movies, holiday movies?

Courtney Domoney (35:27.08) So that's a tough question because I mean so many experiences that I love in life wrap around this time of year because of the things I get to do or you know did growing up or with my family now but every year on Christmas Eve my husband and my two daughters and I we watch It's a Wonderful Life and so we know that you know before we go to bed that that's something that we're going to watch together and we can quote all the lines but that that is my that is my Mount Rushmore of holiday movies.

Rick Sola (35:55.789) Yeah, that is a good one. I think I asked this this time last year and I speak in with Melissa Evans out in Hutchison and we ended up going into a debate on whether Die Hard was a Christmas movie, think, too, because there's that that whole.

Courtney Domoney (36:09.512) My husband would say it is, but for me, I did not grow up with that and I didn't grow up with a brother even and so Die Hard is not one of my Christmas movies, but he likes it.

Rick Sola (36:14.189) haha

Rick Sola (36:20.512) I think there's an argument to be made either way. tend to argue, I go toward Rocky IV. I'm a big Rocky fan. Rocky IV is a Christmas movie if Die Hard is a movie, because they fought on Christmas Day. I'm totally, I mean, I tend to, It's a Wonderful Life is really a good one. I enjoy Christmas Story quite a bit and Christmas Vacation. Those are automatics. They have to be watched. I've already seen, I've seen Christmas Vacation already this year. Elf is really,

Courtney Domoney (36:30.59) How about for you, what's yours?

Courtney Domoney (36:43.922) You have to watch him.

Rick Sola (36:49.804) funny. There's a lot. That's a hard one. yeah, I try to stay kind of in that ballpark there, I guess, for the... I think I'm probably missing some, but... No, so you've been in Blue Valley your entire career. You've been in, you said, at least eight different schools, nine different schools. You've worked with a lot of great people, I'm sure. This is a chance. Brag on Blue Valley and the people of or future people of Wolf Springs.

Courtney Domoney (36:58.1) Yeah.

Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (37:10.111) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (37:19.146) I have just been incredibly fortunate to have had the career that I have had up to this point and you know the career I'm looking forward to and it's always been because of the people that I've been surrounded with so every principal that I had as a teacher who actually both of them are no longer in the district and have moved to other districts

really got me to where I am today. then as an administrator, principals that really helped me, Chris Leglider would be one. And he, I was his assistant for two years. And then we were co-assistant principals before he was my boss for a year as well. But just having the opportunity to work with him and, you know, see how he did things at the beginning of my career was really foundational to, you know, getting me feel like I was prepared to lead professional learning, to tackle

challenges and remain calm. That would be something. My boss, Shelly Nielsen, was a principal at one time and she's an executive director of school administration. She is someone that

always calls you back even you, you know, she happens to be on the phone or be busy or dealing with, you know, a different building and those issues. It always amazed me as a building principal how responsive she was, how caring and genuine she was. And then I've had a chance to work with her more closely this year being at district office and working on a few different projects and getting to work a little bit more alongside her, how, you know, she makes sure that everybody really feels taken, taken care of. And then just all of my middle

school colleague, principal friends in the district.

Courtney Domoney (38:57.874) Well, I'm number 10 now, so I'll be the 10th middle school. But it's great to have colleagues that you feel like, okay, if I'm dealing with an issue, even if I know it's gonna be hard, I just need to hear someone kind of let me vent or talk me through it or give me a couple words to get started. I could call any of them. I think what makes great principals is having great people around you that you can lean on for support when needed. And I've just always been so fortunate to have that in Blue Valley.

and hopefully that I can do that for others as well.

Rick Sola (39:31.8) That's really great. And you mentioned a lot of names there. Chris Leglider, friend of the show. He was on here last year. you know, and I think everything you mentioned, you both within the district and then even outside, like you and I met at Elevate, the Elevate II cohort that we're in together. And, you know, that's part of the value of the KPA and just the networking of all that we can learn from each other. And I really appreciate you taking the time.

Courtney Domoney (39:35.945) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (39:45.823) Yeah.

Rick Sola (40:00.522) at a really busy time, but to share just a little bit of insight about opening a building, because it is unique, but it's always kind of fascinated me. And there's so much, I think we just scratched the surface. I'm sure there's so, so much that you're about to embark on and already embarking on, but it looks like you're well on your way.

Courtney Domoney (40:10.57) I

Courtney Domoney (40:19.422) Something I think I've thought a lot this semester as the pace has just picked up so much is really like everything is figureoutable. I think that's a t-shirt or something somewhere. But I do know that while it's all new, while it's bringing a bunch of different people together, if you can keep your focus on taking care of your people and your students, everything is figureoutable and we're going to do great things.

Rick Sola (40:41.73) Yeah, that's great. It'll fall into place. You've got the family around you and it'll all fall into place. Well Courtney, thank you so much for the time and I really do appreciate it and all the best to you. I look forward to hearing more about it as the year progresses and as you get closer to August and kicking it

Courtney Domoney (40:47.677) Yeah.

Courtney Domoney (41:01.128) Yes, thanks for having me and I hope that we get a chance to connect again soon and that anybody that listens, if they ever want to reach out to me and hear some crazy stories about how it's going, that would be fun too.

Rick Sola (41:13.61) Awesome. your information, contact information will be in the show notes. So check that out. But Courtney, a great rest of the year and enjoy the holidays and we'll talk to you soon.

Courtney Domoney (41:24.971) All right, same to you. Thanks, Rick.

This is part 2 of a 2 part episode. Part 1 (CC#105) dropped on November 20, 2025.

Connect with the panel... Principal Midge Simmons - Grandview Elementary--El Dorado Schools USD490 Connect with Mrs. Simmons on X

Principal Dr. Jenny Woolever - Washington Elementary - Olathe Schools USD233 Connect with Dr. Woolever on X

Assistant Principal Robert Cave - Piper High School - Piper Schools USD203 Connect with Mr. Cave on X

Principal Travis Rogers - Wichita South High School - Wichita USD259 Connect with Mr. Rogers on X

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Episode TRANSCRIPT (AI generated, continues from the end of CC#105-part 1)

Rick Sola (29:25.312) what organizational methods or systems do you have for staying on top of all of the to-dos that you have and that you never complete at the end of any given day?

Jenny Woolever (29:36.985) I've had to learn that my to-do list is always a to-do list. I used to be able to get to-do list done. Yeah, you don't in this role. It is always there. You add to it, you bump things up depending on what's the need and sometimes you can't even get to the to-do list so you have to be able to accept that going in. That was probably something I really had to learn my first few years. I have had an opportunity within my 13 years I have been in different districts and also different buildings.

And so each building I found success in, first I understand what everybody's role is. So when I visit with the secretary before the school year starts, or I visit with assistant principals, maybe that's the counselors, I have them really define their role. So that way when we have the start of the year, we have our names and we know who they can go to for what. That really helps eliminate some of that, them going to you to ask, well, who does this? It's already in that plan. So I always kind of recommend.

empowering others, but also we have some clear plans in place ahead of time. And many a times we're working together anyways, but it's just nice to have that process already thought out. The other thing I recommend is a lot of committees with my, you know, sitting, we'll kind of talk about climate and culture, but having a social committee or during PLCs at the end of that, I always go back to, okay, let's review what everybody is doing. So it doesn't just fall on one person. you're going to send this email? Great. I'm going to contact the parent? Great.

TR Travis Rogers (30:44.419) you

Jenny Woolever (31:02.388) That just really helps come together. And the last bit of advice I had on there that I marked was, in passing as principals, we're always going through the hallways. Someone will be talking to me about something. My go-to is, thank you for telling me. Be sure to email me that so I don't forget. Because there's a million things going on in our mind, and I was already going to do something else, and I couldn't recall. So then at the end of the day, I kind of jot those down on that to-do list so I don't forget. And that's important to go back and don't forget.

I'll even know if my response is late, I'll still get to it. It just is a way I keep track of everything.

Rick Sola (31:36.96) That's great. Any other tips and tricks from the other three of you here?

TR Travis Rogers (31:42.48) So we have Outlook email and so that schedule send and so when something's on your mind and you can schedule send it because you know it needs to come at a different time has been really helpful. And then the value of a great admin assistant. I have a great support staff here and so they have access to my calendar and we put protected times on there. And so if somebody's trying to find me but I'm in classrooms for that hour unless something's burning.

I am not called, you know, and so really truly sitting down with your trusted folks and building trust with them so then they get a feel for you is in the sense of what's important to you and what's not what could be pushed back via email You know, it's truly just having good people around you and having them know what's important to you

Robert Cave (32:35.406) Yeah, I can second the calendar part. That's, that's, you know.

Rick Sola (32:35.617) Yeah.

Robert Cave (32:38.67) I think what Jenny said to someone comes up to me, I say, send me an email right now. So I get to the top of my inbox so can see that that is definitely a tool I use for sure. But I also think having my calendar available and I, you know, have a counselor or someone needs, but even a student, can, you know, I'm the activities director at my school and I have a club president that wants to have a conversation and wants to plan something. I say, find a date this week, you know, when you have time and final on my calendar and make a calendar and I will accept it. And I, that's, I check my calendar.

You know, every 30 minutes I'm like, okay, what's coming up next? What's the next thing on my agenda? What's the next thing coming up? Because you will find yourself pulled. I mean, I will walk from one end of my building to the other, and I will have seven different people need me, you know, from that end to that end. And I'm heading towards the next meeting on my calendar. So I always am checking to make sure, but I think the email is great, but also that calendar can be really helpful as well.

Rick Sola (33:32.369) a good assistant cannot be overstated. And I've been in administration for 15 years and I currently have someone that is just incredible. what she does to help me be better at my job, I can't say enough about that and kind of the nail in the head from Travis there. Travis, I'm going to go to you here. What would you go back and tell?

your brand new principal self. Now, if you could. Kind of a what do know now that you wish you knew then.

TR Travis Rogers (34:09.433) That's a great question. I would definitely say to give yourself grace.

My wife tells me often that I am too hard on myself and so seek mentorship, education, it's a small world. Like you said, Rick, we were all in the same room at some point last week and I had no idea. And so depending on your district and your size, you never know the people that have come before you and you don't know the people that will come after you. And so seek out, you don't have to know everything. And so really truly lean into the people around

you and just celebrate the small wins and take time every day to be around kids. So even as a principal I have 1,700 students here at South High. There's lots of times where I'm just like you know what I need to go into a couple classrooms because I just need a break I need to see kids in action and that truly kind of kind of shifts my mindset from time to time.

Rick Sola (35:07.852) That's great. Any other advice you'd give yourself?

Midge Simmons (35:12.631) When I read the question, the first thing I thought of was networking. know, KPA in USA has been awesome. I mean, since COVID, I feel like it's just been incredible to be a part of. But I was a part of KPA years ago when I first started. I didn't get into it as much. And I just think the networking possibilities that you have through a program like that or, you know, here...

Jenny, you're at elementary, Yeah. So we don't get some of the...

You guys that are at secondary, your league meetings, you get to know some other principals, we don't get that at the elementary level. And that's always been a complaint I've had of being at the elementary level. And so if you don't put yourself out there to gain that networking and meet other people that are in the same profession as you, you don't get some of those people where I can pick up the phone and call. I barely know a lot of you on this panel right now, but I automatically feel right now I could probably call Jenny up tomorrow and ask her a question about what's going on.

nurse goal and get some advice. know, it's important. That networking is so important. So important.

Rick Sola (36:28.276) Yeah. I love that you brought that up because that's kind of been my experience. Sorry, Jenny. I hope I didn't cut you off.

Jenny Woolever (36:28.596) Yeah.

Jenny Woolever (36:33.862) No, I totally agree too. And I've been in both secondary and elementary and I really try to form that team in the elementary too. I may not have AP so it's my secretary, it could be my translator, it could be my nurse. We are the office team. Like we're in it together. I don't know what your role is or my role but we're all in it together. So really be thoughtful of that too. Sometimes you do have certain different resources and different individuals. Create that team for you too.

Rick Sola (37:02.656) Yeah, I agree. think early on, I did not appreciate networking the way it just didn't. Maybe I was so busy with other things as an early administrator, but especially being part of the KPA. And just like we're sitting here, we're all in different parts of the state and having this conversation and being able to connect that way. It's really a big deal, I think. This next question, we'll start with Robert, but I love this question.

It was stolen from a stolen, sounds terrible. was, it was brought in from the new heights podcasts, which is what was your welcome to the NFL moment? So Robert, what was your welcome to administration moment that you had as a first year administrator?

Robert Cave (37:50.702) So I came into a situation where, you know, my first day of school, was my first year as an administrator. It was my school's first year with a new principal that came from the elementary world that was now coming to the high school. And it was a totally new district for me as well. So I was felt like I was just barely, you know, getting my feet wet when on the very first day we had an incident on a bus that

I to take care of and that was throwing me completely into the fire, not only talking to a parent, but having a parent meeting on day one, you know, trying to navigate Skyward on day one and learn all about, you know, the systems of that, writing a suspension letter on day one and navigating all the legal ramifications of that. now, you know, that was just, luckily I had, like you guys said, a great support team around me to kind of help me do those things.

But it was literally my first day with students as a principal. We had an incident that I had to call a parent, suspend a kid, you know, do all that stuff on day one. And that was really, you know, just throwing me right into the fire with all of those things happening. So, you know, it taught me a lot. It started the year off on an interesting note, but that was kind of my welcome to administration moment, whereas, you know, checking cameras, you know, doing all the things that you do, do the investigation, due process.

all of those things and I was like, man, this is just my first day, you know, what is happening here. So, so that was pretty wild.

Rick Sola (39:23.596) That sounds like a Baker scenario that I remember when I went through the classes up there. How do you respond with?

Robert Cave (39:28.056) Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. know. Yeah, it was pretty textbook, unfortunately, from what they give you.

Rick Sola (39:36.916) Yeah. So welcome to the administrator moment, Jenny.

Jenny Woolever (39:42.962) It might happen before the school year actually even begun. We were needing a teacher and so I was interviewing and I was the only one in the building in the summer.

As I was letting the teacher in, I realized I left my key card on the desk. So her and I were both locked into the entry for quite some time, and it was probably a good 90, 100 degree day. I ended up hiring her she was the best one, but it really let me see when things like this happen, how do you get to really know someone? And so it was kind of embarrassing, but I had to contact buildings and they let me in. But I thought, yeah, you really hired me as your admin, but I made up for it in the long run. But you just kind of have to laugh those off. And again,

Everyone's gonna make mistakes, but that one I really told me, who are you again? I'm your new principal and I'm locked in the entry. But yeah, just gotta laugh it off, but it's still something I truly remember.

Rick Sola (40:24.812) You

Rick Sola (40:30.952) Awesome. Midge.

Midge Simmons (40:34.497) for me, kind of a little bit along the lines of Robert is I can remember back on my first year having a very toxic parent who had gotten in the building. And I came from Garden City Schools as a teacher. And back then we did a lot with crisis and intruders and all of that. And the school I was at was not really up on that. So I immediately put the building in lockdown.

And this had to have been within the first couple months that I was in the role. And needless to say, I was able to get the toxic parent to at least step outside the door. And as soon as that door latched, I knew right then, okay, we're all safe, we're fine. And then all of a sudden a police officer comes and they knew a little bit of what's going on, but they didn't handle it very well because they tackled the parent right outside the door.

Rick Sola (41:29.9) you

Midge Simmons (41:31.415) It was quite a thing. I ended up going to court over the issue. The police officer ended up being fired. It was quite a fiasco. I don't remember what the issue was and why the parent was so toxic coming in and angry. I don't remember what that issue was with her child, but I do remember that all happening and me sitting back going, this really what I wanted to do?

But then the year was much better after that, so I don't know.

Rick Sola (42:04.394) Yeah, that is that that kind of goes back to our question earlier about when things end up in the news and escalate quickly, that sort of thing. But Travis.

TR Travis Rogers (42:11.427) Yeah.

TR Travis Rogers (42:15.023) So I had a really good.

admin internship at South High as a teacher. But when I read that I reflected on at 30 years old, I'd left South High to go be an assistant principal at West High. So just up the street. And so they gave me freshman Academy. And so very first day, freshman orientation in front of 400 students, you know, all the staff, I'm doing a 30 minute presentation on the procedures, policies, expectations, never lived a day of my life at West High School. And so just talking

front of people and not just so much teaching but just...

you know now you're the person and now people are looking at you and just being able to present in the correct proper way and say the right things and so that was a truly a very nervous time. never really talked in front of 400 people at the time but again the more you do it the easier it gets and so that was my aha okay welcome to admin I'm 30 years old and I'm sitting here at West High and I'm in charge of all these kids now so.

Rick Sola (43:18.196) Yeah, it's funny. so I'll give it my, my moment, which is so less than all of your examples, cause it was so minor, but it was over the summer and my office, an office staff person came in and just kind of leaned in. I was brand new a couple of days on the job and just, Hey Rick, I just want to let you know, we've got ants really bad up in the front office. And then she stepped out and I'm, and she left and I was thinking to myself, why in the world are you telling me this?

like deal with it. And then it hit me, wait a second. I'm the facility guy. I'm the, I'm the administrator that's over facilities. That is my job now. I got to, I need to deal with it. And so it was kind of like, yeah, like that's why you're telling me. So, all right, so we're, we'll wrap up here in a bit, but Jenny, you did a really great presentation at KPA, the conference last week on the intentional things you do to promote school culture.

Midge Simmons (44:01.738) you

Rick Sola (44:15.9) And we're really at that time of year where it's a grind, but there's a lot of really positive things to tap into for school culture. so talk about a couple of things you're doing or going to do here over the next month with Thanksgiving and the holidays coming that really taps into that.

Jenny Woolever (44:34.504) Yeah, like Rick said, our jobs are hard, so anything I can do to make staff laugh or get to know them better, it is something I really enjoy and I constantly learn. With being in different buildings too, I've taken some different traditions and added it to mine or I respect what the building has done or some that have run their courses, we could say. And so it's kind of always nice to get a feedback and feel for what others are doing.

We actually just submitted our turkey disguises. So just like those fun hand turkeys, teachers are at home designing one with their families. And so the students all during lunch next week get a vote on which turkey is actually going to make it to the feast. And then they get a gift card to actually use.

TR Travis Rogers (45:00.719) you

Jenny Woolever (45:15.136) for their own Thanksgiving supper with their families, which is kind of a fun little artistic standpoint. We're gonna do a champions giving. I'm from Washington and we are the champions. And so each person brings a side and as the principal, we use our funds to get some turkey from Hy-Vee and kind of have our own little friends giving as you would say. December is another one when you come back, you have those three weeks. We've done different where you hide different snowmen throughout the building.

But I really try to make each activity a little different. Some may be where we're playing games, some could be that we're showing artistic side, some may just be socializing or gathering around a table. I just think it's important to embrace that and it gets you out there with others.

I may not participate in everything, but I do participate in a lot. This past Halloween, I was a little boo-boo and I had to explain a lot what that was. But all the kids knew. And you just got to pick and choose, but you got to get out there too. And it's a way that they get to know me besides just Dr. Woolover, the principal.

Rick Sola (46:15.818) Yeah, climate and culture is so critical in being in tune with the undercurrents of a building. Travis mentioned that trust, trust his staff that you have having people that can come to you and kind of share, Hey, you need to be aware of this and just things to keep the morale high or, you know,

This is a good fun time of year. can be in schools. It can also bring a lot of stress for families, for our teachers and so forth. so, yeah, Jenny, have, and you've been on this podcast before sharing about that. And so for anyone listening and wants to know more, go back to this time last year and Jenny shared a really good, but that presentation last week was great. All right, so we're down to the last couple here. Thinking about...

Those who might be listening who are not yet an administrator, they're in classes that at this point they are considering it or maybe they're wholeheartedly ready to make that jump. What advice would you give to the aspiring building administrator who are not yet in that chair? What should they be thinking about right now? What do they need to consider? And this one's a little bit off script. So I'll just take a volunteer to kick us off. Travis, go ahead.

TR Travis Rogers (47:29.911) I'll go seek out leadership opportunities and we talk often about your comfort zone and how growth usually happens outside your comfort zone. So whatever your comfort zone is, whether you're teaching or in a different role within a school, you gotta step outside of that and seek out, talk to people, get to know people, be a sponge and you're gonna continue to learn. And I think that's where the impact will happen for you.

Robert Cave (48:00.855) I would say for me, what I've, what I would learned a lot and what my advice is to be your authentic self, even within this role and listening to Jenny, you know, it reminds me of just kind of myself too, is, you know, that was my fear is it, can I be myself? Can I joke around with staff the way I joked around with my students? Can I do those things? Can I, you know, you know, do those things and, it, and I have been able to, and that's been, you know, don't

Don't try to change for the job. to, you know, be your authentic self within the job and play to your strengths. You're not going to be good at every single thing. There's going to be other administrators, maybe even in your building, your other assistant principals that are, that have different strengths than you. Find what you're good at and lean into those strengths and be your authentic self and don't be afraid to build those relationships and, you know, be that, be the leader you want to be, but within who you are.

and I think I've seen a lot of administrators that, that think they have to change who they were as an educator is, or as a teacher when they get into the role. And I have found that the opposite is true. You should lean into the things that you were good at in the classroom, the things that you, you know, that gave you joy and fulfilled you in the classroom can still be some of the same things that you can do as an administrator. So lean into that and be your authentic self. That authenticity is so important.

not only with your staff, but with students. They will be able to see behind any false veneer that you put up. So be yourself, be who you are, and that's the way you will build trust with your staff and your students.

Rick Sola (49:40.876) That's great. Jenny.

Jenny Woolever (49:42.281) Yeah, Robert, I agree. And like you said, you learn from all the administrators you've had before you too. And so people know I spend a lot of time on my pre-service and my professional development because I don't want to be bored. And I said, I've been at all those stages too. And so that is like my classroom. And so I really try to do that. And anytime I can't sub in a class, I love it. And so sometimes even those best administrators aren't the ones that are ready to leave the classroom.

And so just know that you'll always have that. But what's luxury, you can go co-teach with anybody you want. I also agree with what Travis said. I kind of went to the math specialist role before I went to an administrator, and I was glad I did because I learned how to do professional development within large groups. I also learned how to work with teachers and running PLCs. It's different working with adults than it is children. But I also would say is relating it to you as a person. Sometimes when I do have to make those tough phone calls.

I say I understand your view as a parent, I'm a parent too, knowing that you do have a lot of roles and you can relate in all of those. So I think all of those are great and I would agree.

Rick Sola (50:44.46) right, Mitch.

Midge Simmons (50:46.519) Robert I really liked what you had to say about being authentic is that that is Yeah, that's just yeah, you hit it spot-on for me. you know it it's not just about building relationships with your staff, but it's also building that trust and And to me that I've learned over the years that that is just so incredibly important to build that trust and you can only do that by being authentic and I I would like to add that

I think it's important that it's okay to be vulnerable with some of your staff. And if you have that trust built, you can do that and it's okay. They need to see that we're human in these roles too. And then the only other thing when I think about this is don't be afraid to take risks. My husband always talks about, you know, it's okay to fail forward.

If you fail at something or if you are empowering a staff member and they fail, let them fail because that's how they're going to learn. But I think that holds true for us too, that it's okay to take risks, whether it's with your staff or whether it's just with the school in general and what you're leading. I just think that's so important because we're not gonna move forward if we don't take those risks.

Rick Sola (52:07.488) That's great. Thank you all for sharing. Last question, 10 seconds or less. Excuse me. My voice is gone. I apologize. 10 seconds or less. Thanksgiving is a couple of weeks away and we all have some time off coming up. Much deserved. What is it you're looking forward to most to unwind for you personally over the Thanksgiving holiday?

Jenny Woolever (52:34.144) We do a game night at the Wooliver household and it gets pretty intense. We're all really competitive. I really a lot of times have to be on the same team as Mr. Wooliver because like I said, but we enjoy it you got to laugh at it and my kids love it, but it's just a tradition that carries on in my family. So on Thanksgiving night, it's a game night as well.

Robert Cave (52:58.19) Yeah, I would say for me, I have a sophomore music ed major at K state. And so he's coming home and so it's spending time. You know, it feels when you, when you have a family and one part of it's gone for a while, you forget what it feels like when you're all together and complete. So for me, it's, know, it's, it's easy to say, I love cooking Thanksgiving food. love eating Thanksgiving food. I love watching football. I love all that, but I love doing all of that when my family is all here and complete and together. So.

That's what it's really all about. And you'll find yourself, I think all of you know, especially those that work high school, how often, how many evenings you work and how often you are out of your family, where you're away from your family. So spending that time with them just feels even more valuable during these times, a time to refresh and get ready for those three to four weeks before winter break hits and we have second semester. So that's I look forward to the most.

Rick Sola (53:53.8) Excellent. Midge.

Midge Simmons (53:57.09) For me, this is going to be the first time ever in my career.

in education where I have full week. We've always had only the three days, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So to get a whole full week, feels like spring break is around the corner, but it's not going to feel that way outside, obviously. For me, I've got some family members that are actually not going to be there. I could do one of two things. I could be really bummed on that and ruin the week for myself and be negative about that, or I could also appreciate the time that both

my husband and I will have some quiet time together too. and being both of us being school administrators, you don't get a whole lot of that. We do a lot of talking. We have a 40 minute drive. We live in Derby and we both work here in El Dorado. So we do a lot of downtime in there, but.

you know it's gonna be nice to just say hey no we can not be principals for a week and maybe we can have some other conversations that are a little different and have that quiet time too but there will be time for family and definitely time for turkey and all of that too so I'm looking forward to it I'm sure you all are as well

Rick Sola (55:06.613) Great.

Rick Sola (55:10.23) Travis?

TR Travis Rogers (55:10.927) Yeah, I would just echo what everybody said I mean spending time with family probably not checking my email for a few days And then we have a pretty intense Bingo night with the in-laws and so I'm excited to see that again

Rick Sola (55:27.82) That's awesome. Well, I want to wish you all an awesome Thanksgiving, a good week before you get through without too much going on and that you are able to enjoy that time off and time together. the word authenticity has been brought up, and I just appreciate all of your candor and authenticity with answering these questions. I really appreciate you spending this Friday after school at a busy time to give back to the profession this way.

TR Travis Rogers (55:55.256) you

Rick Sola (55:57.086) and to this cohort who has given us these questions to discuss. So once again, thank you all. Have a great Thanksgiving and we'll see you around, I'm sure.

Robert Cave (56:08.278) Awesome. Thanks so much, Rick.

Midge Simmons (56:08.332) Thank you, Greg.

TR Travis Rogers (56:08.976) Take care.

This is part 1 of a 2 part episode. Part 2 will drop on December 4, 2025.

Connect with the panel... Principal Midge Simmons - Grandview Elementary--El Dorado Schools USD490 Connect with Mrs. Simmons on X

Principal Dr. Jenny Woolever - Washington Elementary - Olathe Schools USD233 Connect with Dr. Woolever on X

Assistant Principal Robert Cave - Piper High School - Piper Schools USD203 Connect with Mr. Cave on X

Principal Travis Rogers - Wichita South High School - Wichita USD259 Connect with Mr. Rogers on X

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (Generated by AI)

Rick Sola (00:03.167) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee, a principals panel edition. We have four amazing principals here from across this wonderful state of Kansas. I'll have them introduce themselves in a bit, but today's panel will be served up some questions created by the Baker University's Fall 2025 cohort, which are all students working toward their building level licensure program. They are future administrators. Special shout out to Shelby Mouha.

from this cohort who helped facilitate the creation of these questions and with the aim of going beyond the surface level and into the nuts and bolts of administration. We know there are many ways to skin a cat, which is just really one of the most awful sayings. I apologize for putting that in there. So for those listening who are in their chair, compare your response with how our panel responds. There are often many right answers, perhaps even many more wrong answers, but still there are many correct answers. So with that,

Let's meet our panel today and they're gonna share their name, position, school and their number of years in the chair. Let's start with Midge.

Midge Simmons (01:10.551) I'm Midge Simmons. I'm an elementary principal at Granville Elementary in El Dorado. I've been in the chair too long. All good though. I do feel like I'll be ending my career here in El Dorado, but we'll see how life takes us. But I've been in education for 29 years and 19 as an elementary principal. This is my third school, third school to be an elementary principal.

Rick Sola (01:39.433) Awesome. Welcome, Edge. Jenny.

Midge Simmons (01:41.003) Thank you.

Jenny Woolever (01:44.224) you

Rick Sola (01:46.546) I think you're on mute, Jenny.

Rick Sola (01:52.811) There you go. You're all good.

Jenny Woolever (01:53.342) Not a good way to start. Okay, I'm Dr. Jenny Willow. I am the principal at Washington Elementary in the Lathus School District. I've served as a principal for 13 years. Four of those have been in middle school and the remainder have been in elementary.

Rick Sola (02:07.711) Awesome. Robert.

Robert Cave (02:10.286) Hey, I'm Robert Cave. I have been a, an assistant principal at Piper High School in Kansas City, Kansas. I spent 23 years teaching in Olathe schools and was part of the Baker admin cohort in 2018 and finally got a job at Piper High School and this is my fourth year there. So I've been in education about 27 years, only four as an administrator, the rest is a teacher.

Rick Sola (02:39.977) Awesome. And Travis.

TR Travis Rogers (02:43.151) Hello everybody, I'm Travis Rogers, currently principal at Wichita South High School. This is my 19th year in education, 12th year as an administrator, and I'm just starting my fifth year as principal here at South High School in USD 259.

Robert Cave (02:44.32) you

Rick Sola (03:00.669) Awesome. Well, once again, I want to welcome all of you. And it was great because we're recording this the week after the KPA conference. And I was able to see many of you there. It was a great conference and it was actually neat. At one point, I think we were all in the same session. But thanks again for coming on to this podcast and being able to share specifically to our Baker friends out there in this cohort, but also to all who are listening. And so we're going to, we're going to kick it off here.

And so these questions again were generated from the Fall 2025 Baker University Future Administrator Program. And so I'm going to start here with a question that kind of applies to all of us. And Midge, we'll start with you, but we'll hear from everybody. going way back, why did you decide to become an administrator? And how has that why changed throughout the year or throughout the years?

Midge Simmons (03:59.828) Well, I was ready to answer number one, Rick. You jumped us to number eight. You're good. You're good. You know, I probably will give an answer that not many would say. Honestly, I was bored. I was bored teaching. I think it was at the time I was teaching middle school.

Rick Sola (04:03.115) I won't go out of order after this. I just thought that was a good kickoff. Sorry about that. little curve ball.

Midge Simmons (04:23.603) and I had maybe one to two preps and I just needed something more and I always had aspirations of trying to make more of a difference than what you can in a classroom and trying to reach out to others with more of a difference and so I know that sounds kind of, I don't know what the word for that is, that most people would give that in an interview type question but it's the truth. I wanted to have a greater capacity of being able to

make a change or trying to make a difference. don't know. I think for me, I've learned that it's not always about the difference in pay in the education world or the administrative world, but it has a lot more to do with the support that you receive.

I've had some varying experiences being an administrator in three different districts at three different levels going from 3A to 2A and now I'm at 4A level. I just think that the support that you get from a superintendent and a board is huge. That to me makes the biggest difference. And I think I've seen that over the years. And I've left districts because I didn't feel.

that support, whether it superintendent or the board. And it's time to move on and try and make a difference somewhere else. so, yeah. You guys have anything?

Rick Sola (05:58.7) Great. Yeah. Travis will kick it to you. Why'd you become an administrator?

TR Travis Rogers (06:04.333) Yeah, so I had a really good experience. taught PE actually here at South High School and so about year four or five really started to reflect and think about what my next chapter was going to look like. And I was always interested in like the functions of a school and so I had about 150 kids throughout my PE classes. Again, was able to coach some things again had a really good experience, but I wanted to make a greater impact.

And I thought growing personally and professionally was very important. And so what's funny now in my 12th year, you're still coaching.

you still mentor, but now you're on a bigger scale. And so now you're involved, you know, with families, parents, you know, the staff. And so it's kind of like pieces of the puzzle. I say that often. And so you're trying to put all the pieces of the puzzle and depending on your school, depending on your situation, you know, depending on the day, you could have a couple pieces that you got to put together or you could have a lot. And so, it's really been impactful, but really truly serving your why is serving your people.

So it's all about that personal and professional growth and in this role it can happen every hour.

Rick Sola (07:22.859) Great Robert.

Robert Cave (07:24.584) you know, for me, I was in the classroom. I didn't know if I was ever going to be an administrator. That wasn't ever my end goal. you know, I thought I was going to be probably a lifelong teacher and I kept finding myself and kind of thrust into different leadership roles, whether it would be curriculum, whether that be, you know, writing different things or department chairs, BLT chairs, those sorts of things. And, kind of like what Mitch says, I found myself kind of yearning for a little bit of a different.

side of education for a different way to impact not only students, but to impact teachers and try to help support them and kind of be the, you know, the one to help lift them up and help students achieve. And found myself, you know, taking, getting another masters in the Baker cohort and just, and getting that school leadership and really finding a passion for that. And so ended up just kind of throwing myself into that. So, you know, my biggest fear was that

I would miss out on kind of the relational aspect that you have as a teacher. That was kind of why I still did it. I loved being with students. I loved seeing them grow. I loved all of those things. But you find that there's, you still get to have that as an administrator. It's just at a different level. Now you have it with the teachers. Now you can impact things in different ways and your scope and sphere of influence will grow in that way. So I found that to be still pretty powerful.

And it's kept me, you know, still wanting to be in education and be an advocate for educators instead of just the ones that we're educating.

Rick Sola (08:58.581) Awesome. Jenny?

Jenny Woolever (09:03.092) Well, I think others saw it in me first before I really wanted to come to fruition that I probably will be a principal. I went through my schooling and I actually started towards my doctorate. I didn't have any kind of educational leadership previously for that. I went into EdTech, did some other things. But the reason I was pursuing my doctorate, I was interested in teaching those that wanted to become teachers and become in education.

During that is when others saw it in me and said you really need to go back and get your certification in educational leadership and so I think with their encouragement is what drove me into this and just kind like what Mitch said too is that I actually went to a math specialist first because I was so worried about leaving that role like many of you guys said but the greater impact you do have as you kind of go through as a specialist and then as an administrator I really felt like I

could really impact not just my classroom, but a whole building.

Rick Sola (09:59.68) That's great. I love hearing all of your, your whys and you know, think it highlights that there's no one road to this chair. And that's usually how we start this show is your road to the chair that I hear so often how kind of like what Jenny said, didn't necessarily think about it for myself. Somebody else may have discovered it. All four of you described a much different path and why, and you know, for those who are listening who

May be in a teaching role right now. I think that's important to realize like sometimes I think we feel like we have to emulate somebody who were with or near There's a lot of different ways to get there and in at different trajectories different timing as well we'll go into the the first question major I'll go to you as far as You know the the first one in order I guess we'll be back in order here Is perhaps one of the most important things if not the most important thing we do and that's hiring

And we hire candidates that we are hoping will be a good fit. But what does it mean that you are looking for in teaching candidates for your building? And then what do you tend to avoid?

Midge Simmons (11:09.783) Well, for me, a lot of times my husband's also a principal. And so he has laughed at me over the years because when I am down to the wire, you've got it narrowed down to two candidates and you're trying to make some decisions and they all have great qualities and they all have some negatives. When you're trying to figure out which one to go with, he always says to me, what's your gut say? And he makes fun of me because he says,

when your gut is right, it's right, and when it's not, it's not, and you, nine times out of 10, are always right with your gut, and he's right. mean, all the hiring I've done over the years, it does come down to what do I feel in my gut? But the biggest thing, biggest things for me is going to be when I'm looking across the table at somebody that we're interviewing, it has everything to do with relationships. And...

I don't mean just relationships with kids, relationships with other staff as well. Do they fit the mission and the vision of our building and where we're headed in the future? Do they fit the mold of the teammate that they're going to work with, right? I mean, I have teachers that team, I mean, we all team teach on our grade levels at the elementary level. And if I feel like it's not the right fit, it's not the right fit. It doesn't mean that the teacher won't be good.

couldn't be a great candidate for us. It's just if the fifth isn't there, it's not. I feel like sometimes we think a GPA is everything, but a GPA to me tells me whether a student, whether a teacher is going to have a good work ethic. That's what a GPA tells me is whether they have a work ethic. If the person can't relate to others.

They could be a straight A student, have all these honors, but if they can't relate to others and be able to build relationships with kids and with staff, I'm not going to find them to be a coachable person to hire. And that's the other thing that I really look for is, you you find out what somebody's faults are through an interview, and I always ask myself, if they have that kind of fault, can I support that as a principal?

Midge Simmons (13:26.305) Can I coach them through that and coach them up on that? And there are times when you interview teachers and you look at somebody and think, hmm, I don't know. I don't know if I can coach that. I don't know what supports I can bring in to help them. And maybe they're not the right fit for that. I laughed when I read this question because I was reflecting back to what did this look like 19 years ago when I started as a principal?

And I literally had, I remember sitting at my desk one time to hire an elementary teacher and I literally had two feet worth of files to go through to hire one position. And now we're lucky if we get one application at times, right? Especially you guys that are at the high school and middle school level. I know it sometimes gets worse than some of those, but it just.

TR Travis Rogers (14:10.831) you

Midge Simmons (14:21.855) It's amazing in the 19 years how much that's changed in our profession and it's sad. I want more for this profession that's given me a life. nowadays we're lucky. We want to find people that definitely have some sort of a license. We run into some cases where we try, I mean here at El Dorado we try and avoid anybody that doesn't have any license.

if we can, because we do get applicants that have no license. They're still working on it or whatever program that they have. And I think I feel like as a principal, I have to be more open minded for that coachable piece in hiring teachers.

Rick Sola (15:09.579) So I really like that you brought up your gut and kind of looking at the panel here. And I agree with that. There's so many times where you've got to, you've got to go with your gut. Has your gut ever let you down in a hiring situation?

Midge Simmons (15:22.999) It's funny because the last school that I left, I hired somebody before I left and my gut felt funny, but I didn't have any other applicants to fill the position and we had to go with it. And then I didn't plan on leaving. I hired them, I think late April and I ended up leaving in early June to come here and it was not a good situation. They ended up...

non-renewing and barely made it through the school year. So no, my gut failed me on that one, but I didn't reap the negative side.

TR Travis Rogers (15:55.695) you

Rick Sola (16:01.013) Well, you know, it can cut both ways. I'm sure we've all been burned by hiring. If you don't trust your gut and that fails, that's really hard to swallow, at least for me. Like if I go against my instinct because, know, so I think I'm glad you brought that up. think it's a really important piece. Robert, I'm going to kick it to you. How do you keep your cool when staff or students come to you with an issue that is a 10 on the emergency scale for them?

Robert Cave (16:28.577) Ha

Rick Sola (16:30.773) but it's absolutely not a 10 for you.

Robert Cave (16:33.944) Well, I think, you know, the biggest thing is to listen. You know, I think that that can be so hard because we can be pulled in so many different directions and you can have five different things happening and someone comes to talk to you or someone comes to report something to you or, and you have to really be intentional about giving them the space they need and giving them the space to, to air their grievance or tell you what's happening. You know, I, I.

tell students and teachers all the time, know, thank you for coming to me. I really validate your feelings or you know, what's going on. And I just want them to, you know, I hope that I have built enough trust in them that they trust me to say, thank you. Let me take this burden on, you know, let me take this on now. Let me do it so that you don't have to worry about it. And I'll let you know, you know, when we have a resolution or what happens. So I think that the biggest thing is listening.

giving them the right, you know, in the mindset of letting them know that I will find a solution, I will figure this out. And then, you know, and that comes with having that relationship. You know, it takes a while to build that, I think, but you hope that you are, you know, reliable enough that you have not, you know, burned them in the past or whatever, that, you know, you have enough follow through, that they trust you to handle it and take care of those things. Right? The biggest thing is to not, we don't need to tell them, you know, hey,

calm down, this is not the right, you're not thinking about this correctly. It doesn't help to say that. I think the best thing to say is, okay, thank you so much. I hear what you're saying. Will you let me, do you trust me? Let me take care of it. Will you let me be the person that handles it? And if they say yes, then I think you just add that to your to-do list and the things you do and then make sure you follow up with that person. But I think it's important to listen and it's important to validate why it's important to them.

The choir teacher has to pass out. You know, they were so worried because their delivery for their cookie dough fundraisers is coming at two o'clock today and we had to have a plan to have our going to distribute the cookie dough. You know, and it's like to them, it's it's it's has to be done right now during their plan period. I said, let me handle it. I'll make the plan for you. I'll take care of it. I'll let you know what the plan is. I'll communicate that to the staff and we'll go from there. You know, and that just OK, they can take a breath now. So I that's important to listen, validate and then.

Robert Cave (18:57.238) have follow through when you solve their issue.

Rick Sola (19:00.585) You know, one piece that wasn't included in the question is the parent angle as well. You sometimes we get those calls from parents and it's a it's an urgent matter or you get the message like so and so need you to call back immediately and you hear it. And thankfully, maybe it's not as big of a deal, but for them, it's still gigantic. How how often have you find it that it occurs often that you just have to listen and by the time

especially a parent, by the time they get to the end of their, whether it's venting or sharing, it feels better and it's almost resolved itself just by being that listening ear. I see a lot of nodding heads, but Robert, have you found that?

Robert Cave (19:42.936) Yeah, that's exactly right, Rick. I've really found that to be the case. A lot of times they just want someone to talk to, someone just to listen, to say, here's the issue I'm having. And a lot of times it's just, it's not even having a solution. Sometimes it's just, thank you so much for sharing. You know, we will work on getting better or thank you for sharing. Let me take care of this or, you know, here's what we're going to do about this. Here's our protocols. Here are the things that we're going to do.

So think a lot of times I think you're exactly right. They just want someone to listen to, like I said before, I repeat it a lot, but validate their feelings and understand where they're coming from. And sometimes you have to let them know, will get, know, here's the kind of the process we're going to go through to do this. might not be on your time, but here's the steps that we have to take. But I think you're right. Almost, I would say, you know, 85, 90 % of the time, once you have that discussion, by the end of the discussion, they feel better.

They are not as in a rush to get things accomplished as they were to start. So I think that is very important, especially when comes to those parents and those stakeholders.

Rick Sola (20:48.423) One thing I've learned is when I get the email from a parent that demands a meeting ASAP that day, but let me know a time available, all those things. I never respond to the email. pick up the phone and 90 % of the time the phone call takes care of it and there's, there's no need for a meeting. And I find that to be helpful. But I have kind of discovered that there's

TR Travis Rogers (20:56.431) and

Midge Simmons (21:06.519) Thank

Rick Sola (21:15.145) You just never know when people hear information. Sometimes it's an immediate respond, email or whatever. So yeah, that listening piece is critical.

Robert Cave (21:23.564) Yeah. And that's something I would say to the cohort to listening is, is prepared just to be a conversationalist prepared. I always prefer making a phone call now. I would much rather call a parent than email a parent. I just like having those phone calls. And I think that, you know, I think it tones down whatever vitriol they may have, or that is coming through in the email when you reach out to them. So I would say, and I think parents really appreciate that too, you know, the time you're taking.

So I would say anytime you have a parent that's demanding a meeting with those sorts of things, I think Rick, you're, you hit the nail on the head, call them and just say, Hey, I just want to respond to what you're saying. And half the time they might still want to meeting. And a lot of the times you're going to say, thank you so much. And, know, I'll get back to you, you know, through email or whatever, if I can, when we solve the solution, the problem. But I think you're exactly right. Just prepare yourself to be making parent phone calls and be getting comfortable with making parent phone calls. You know, I tell, I tell my teachers, my counselors all the time.

Rick Sola (22:18.145) Yeah.

Robert Cave (22:22.016) If you need me to call someone, let me know. I will reach out. And that's just a big part of our job, I think.

Rick Sola (22:26.796) Yeah, it's so much more efficient, I think too. It takes me a while. I, you know, I'm going to craft an email that I want to be really thoughtful about. And by the time I'm, you know, half an hour into it, perhaps. So, uh, Travis, I'm going to go to you here, uh, a little change of subject, but, also not a very pleasant part of administration perhaps, but how do you handle, uh, both practically and mentally and emotionally.

Robert Cave (22:28.866) Yes, 100%.

Robert Cave (22:36.844) Yep. Absolutely.

Rick Sola (22:54.44) issues that pop up that escalate so quickly and they end up in the news. Whether it's handled correctly or not, in your control or not, how do you handle that as a building principle?

TR Travis Rogers (23:06.908) The first tip I got is just take a deep breath.

And so anytime an emergency happens or a situation takes place, people are going to look at you, how you react, how you respond, your demeanor, you know, just the steps that you take. And so it's very important that you got to take a deep breath and stay calm. And truly the reality is, is we, whether you have a good crisis plan team, you got the communication set up, you're never fully going to

to be prepared for every emergency. And so you got to have the practice in place. That's why we have drills. That's why we have the communication chains. And then you got to be mindful of, you got to be transparent, but then you have to filter what you can say and what you should not say at that time. so emotionally, I mean, you got to take care of yourself. You got to reflect. I think it's very important to reflect whenever something happens.

what went well, what did not. We have found great value here at South that when a situation happens and it could involve like the police, teachers are still teaching and the kids are still in the classroom. And so we have found great value in, you know, social media is a rapid fire. And so sometimes it's not the truth or the right information. And so my staff really does appreciate if we have something big that pops off.

Hey guys, we're gonna have an optional staff debrief after school if you want to attend that is great And usually that kind of calms things down To where they hear it from me that these are the truth. This is what happens This is what we're investigating and so on and then as a principle You just have to be mindful of social media after the fact or if it hit the news Could be the truth it could not be very mindful of the comments if you're sitting at home at night and you're scrolling through all the comments

TR Travis Rogers (25:09.905) and you know what the truth is and it's not, to me that doesn't tie into your mental health and so you got to be really careful of that.

Rick Sola (25:20.012) How would you say for any of you, you've evolved over the time of being a principal, know, Travis referenced inaccurate information and perhaps it's critical of you or it's critical of the building or critical of a teacher and you know it's not accurate, but there's also only so much that we are allowed to share. Has that, is that something that you talk about having thick skin? Would you just?

put it up as over time you get thicker skin or is there something you intentionally do to really kind of help with that or things that you have found a strategy to say what you can say that kind of like Travis said earlier, you know, putting minds at ease.

Midge Simmons (26:04.2) I'll start it. For me, like when Robert talked about...

social media or you you talked about, know, picking up the phone and calling the parent. We had that discussion. I was thinking in my mind, I do that same thing when I find out things are on social media, too. If something's being said out there that's incorrect information and I know who's saying it, I'll pick up the phone and call that parent and and just say, hey, I saw your post. I just wanted to clarify with you, you know, and have that conversation about it. And it usually that post will end up being deleted. And I think that's just to

make parents aware that you're mindful of this and you know that it's out there and you want to address it. Nine times out of ten, I'm finding out that people are receptive to that. But in a case of what Travis is talking about, if it's a crisis situation, that's a little bit different. For me, I also...

just to kind of piggy bank a little bit on Travis, to me when I read that question of yours, Rick, the first thing I thought of was you always go back to your policies and you gotta know your policies. So when you're in that heat of the moment and what can you say or not say, to me it just always goes back to that or what you say later on, right? Because if it's a...

If it's a newsworthy situation, it's probably something that's going to be ongoing. You're not going to deal with it for just that day. But just knowing what you can and can't do and backing yourself with your board policies or anything. I don't know. That's enough for me. Maybe somebody else can comment more about what Rick asked.

Rick Sola (27:43.66) Heh.

Jenny Woolever (27:47.517) Yeah, well, Midge, I agree with you too, is that the same concept like Robert was talking about, about listening, doing the same thing under a crisis as well, that allowing them to express how they're feeling, but also, now, these are our policies, this is what we have to follow, this is what I'm doing. Sometimes telling them the active plan that we have, and I may not be able to share what's happening with the other student, I may not be able to share this, but I know it, I'm on it.

and just reassuring them that way. I've done a lot of that too because just checking in with them and letting them know you received the message, you are aware of this issue, and you're handling it.

Rick Sola (28:25.3) Yeah. Well, always, and there's no situation like that that is a cookie cutter from a previous situation. So I always keep any communications I put out. have a whole, whole file of them, but they're, they're never just copy and paste into a new situation. You can reference them, but there's everything so nuanced along the way.

Midge Simmons (28:47.903) But yes, Rick, you have a thicker skin after so many years. 19 of them. Yeah, my skin's little thick.

Rick Sola (28:57.046) And I think some of that comes with confidence too. You you think back to your first couple of years and a lot, a lot of questioning of, don't know, did I make the wrong decision here? If things are blowing up with experience, you start to have a lot more confidence. And I think that helps with the thick skin. So Jenny, I'm going to, I'm going to go to you here. There are so many to do's on a principal's list, on an administrator's list.

Midge Simmons (28:59.349) Yes. yeah.

TR Travis Rogers (29:00.865) sure.

Catch Part 2 of this episode on the next Cool Coffee episode drop.

Mr. Frank Bell

Gardner-Edgerton High School Principal

X: @bellfgehs

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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In this 103rd episode of Cool Coffee w/ Kansas Principals, Principal Brian Barackman shares the unique house system at Indian Trail Middle School in USD 233. Discussed is how this system fosters community and enhances the student experience through its building and camaraderie amongst grade-levels. Mr. Barackman connects what his school is doing with the house system and its PBIS system. Listen in to hear more from another Kansas principal doing great work for kids and staff!

Connect with Mr. Barackman:

Email

X: @BarackmanBrian

Show Reference: Ron Clark Academy

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

YOUR input on Cool Coffee is NEEDED! Click HERE to share thoughts and interest for you or a colleague on being on the show!

Click for ALL Cool Coffee episodes!

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Contact the host: X @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (Timestamps after the 6:00 mark are inaccurate due to mid-show interruption and need for editing)

Rick Sola (00:01.89) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee. Today I am with principal Mr. Brian Barickman from Indian Trail Middle School in USD 233, Olathec Public Schools. Welcome, Brian.

Brian Barackman (00:14.309) How we doing? Thanks so much for having me.

Rick Sola (00:17.154) Doing all right. It's been, we're recording this at the end of a Monday and I think it's been a pretty good Monday. So I'll start with a quick transparency on this episode. Mr. Berrickman and I go way back and we actually shared a meeting together today, this afternoon. We had a meeting over at the district office, but we share a district. At one point we shared a school and we do go way back. So.

I've used this term before, but this is kind of like a Prince of Pals episode. We've got a Prince of Pals here on the show here with Mr. Berrickman. But again, welcome. Thanks for coming on.

Brian Barackman (00:54.105) Ha ha ha.

Brian Barackman (00:59.142) Hey, I can't believe that I'm finally here. I've been listening to every episode and it's an honor to be here. So thanks for having me.

Rick Sola (01:07.252) And the software I use for this can detect lying on the show. And so I don't know that you've really listened to every episode, but no, it's awesome that you're here. But before we get started here, a quick show shout out, a reminder that if you click into the show and check the show notes, there's information about the show, ways to contact our guests, and a way to leave feedback or even a contact me with topics or questions or guest ideas. Would love to get all of those.

Brian Barackman (01:11.69) You

Rick Sola (01:36.706) Some of our shows have been created by the feedback from those who have listened. Also, give us a like or a follow on your favorite podcast platform. Help spread the word about the insightful stories from the amazing principals all across this great state of Kansas. Like us, follow us here at KPA's Cool Coffee. And so I feel like that's a really great lead-in to really someone I...

have come to learn is the most beloved principle in the world. And that's Brian Berrickman.

Brian Barackman (02:12.449) my goodness. I can see the lie detector now. I see it going off now. Well, that's high praise coming from you. I appreciate it. However not true, I appreciate it.

Rick Sola (02:16.069) Hahaha

Rick Sola (02:26.146) Well, so I think you'll cover this here. We will start with your road to the chair, but our road has crossed paths in a very good way. But it's fun to hear every principal I've had on this show. They talk about what it is that led to them being where they're at presently. And we're all so varied on how we got here. it's, I always find it interesting, but let's start with that, Brian.

Where did you start in education and what led to you being at Indian Trail?

Brian Barackman (03:00.269) Absolutely, well, I think that story starts with my own middle school career going to school here at Indian Trail. And I didn't know that the stars would align down the road one day, but thankfully they did. So as a middle school kid, never thought that I would be a principal. I wanted to be a biologist and then...

I went to K-State and learned that, you know, I taught swimming lessons, was one of my early life jobs, and I learned to really love teaching, and I decided to combine those two loves of science and teaching and become a science teacher. So I taught seventh grade science, mostly biology, at Santa Fe Trail Middle School in Olathe for about six years. And that whole time I knew not only did I have a passion for education, but I had dreams.

dreams of being an administrator. I saw great administrators throughout my career that I just saw the impact that they had not only on me but on so many families and so many students. And it was always interesting to me that you want to have an impact on the community and then seeing people in those positions have an even broader and wider impact and think, man, what kind of difference could I make in a position like that or what kind of help could I provide, what kind of service

leader could I be to even more people, you know, and give back to the community that gave me so much growing up. So I kind of had that dream. And then after six years of teaching, the yours truly, Mr. Rick Sola gave me an opportunity to get into my first assistant principal position at Prairie Trail Middle School. And I was assistant principal there for three years. And then there's an opening

at Indian Trail, which as I mentioned was my alma mater. So I loved my time so much at both Santa Fe Trail and Prairie Trail. But when there's a, you you have an opportunity to potentially go back to your home school, you know, it's, I knew it was going to be fun and exciting to be back, but I didn't realize just how special and how connected, how special it be and how connected I would feel to a building, you know.

Brian Barackman (05:20.555) I jumped at the opportunity to come back. I served as assistant principal here for one year and now this is my fourth year as head principal. And I can tell you, every day it's still new memories pop up for me. Like I will be in a classroom and I'll have an epiphany of, my gosh, this was the same room in seventh grade when this happened to me and there are so many. I remember reading holes in this room. It used to be a language arts room or.

I'll turn a corner and have a memory of an interesting passing period that I had one time. So it's just, it's really, really fun and special to be back here and to serve this community in this capacity.

Rick Sola (06:06.028)

So you said that you were at your you were a student at Indian Trail back in the day. And so going back there, does it feel

Brian Barackman (08:12.825) Yeah, yeah.

Rick Sola (08:31.426) totally different, like a whole different school, or when you walk those halls, is it kind of like, man, this is my old stomping grounds. Like, do you still feel that? Because I know there's been some changes there, some construction and all sorts of things.

Brian Barackman (08:42.563) Yeah, it's so funny. It's so much of both. There's so many memories that flood back immediately, especially walking back into this principal's office I've been in a couple times. But then, also, there's memories that you forget about that you...

you know, you don't think about and then all of a sudden it just hits you one day. know, you'll be like, since some of the classrooms look so different and are different subject areas and things like that, you don't immediately recognize them. But then in one moment you might have this memory flood back like, my gosh, this was Ms. So and So's room. And I remember doing this and they're meeting this friend or, you know, and one other special thing in my office, I have the class photo from my last year here and there.

There are people in that photo who are, you who I was standing up in their weddings. There's people in that photo who I've been friends with since we went to school here and they are currently working here with me, which is really special. you know, there's some, you know, you know how life is. There's some sad stories on that too. And it's just a good reminder for me every morning of, you know, the reason that we're here to make a difference in those people's lives. And, you know, we were those kids and that's why this

work is so important.

Rick Sola (10:01.486) Yeah, that's really cool. And I feel like maybe we've talked about this before, but I remember when I first started teaching and I came back to the district where I graduated high school and went all the way through, I was teaching alongside my former teachers. And I found that really bizarre at first because, I mean, who am I? Some, you know, snot nosed kid coming out of college teaching alongside these veterans.

Brian Barackman (10:18.615) Uh-huh.

Rick Sola (10:29.934) Well, and then fast forward to administration and there were still there were still some teachers that. Yeah, well, yeah, that kind of goes without saying. But but no, like so you're in these leadership roles. Were you in a position where you are with some teachers that either maybe were your teachers or you had some of those connections that as you were you were little Brian Barickman to them and now all of a sudden you're the.

Brian Barackman (10:34.317) And we're still thinking that about you.

Rick Sola (10:57.26) Yeah, I don't want to say the boss, but you're the decision maker. You're making decisions and you're in a position of leadership. did you experience that at all in your road administration?

Brian Barackman (11:07.799) Absolutely, yeah. every, you know, when you ask that question, my mind goes to, you know, like, could that be an, you know, an awkward dynamic or anything like that? And I have found it to be nothing but enriching those relationships. I think, you know, not only have I been blessed with such amazing teachers throughout my path, who are just a wonderful people and are just so excited to see you back, coming back to Olathe, you know, coming back to the profession, but

I think luckily I was a quiet kid and a good student, so there was no grudges carried against me over the times. But it really is, I think, at least from my perspective, I don't know what they would say, but from my perspective, it has just been really special, you know, to be like, man, I respected you so much as a teacher. You know, I learned so much from you. And now we're hand in hand making a difference together. And how cool is that? Who listening to this wouldn't want?

one of their students to come back one day and help them make a difference for the community we care so much about. mean, that has been my experience. And I do have one funny story from this though. My mom is wonderful and she is a collector and I was able to find one of my old grade cards from a teacher here at Indian Trail. And I had all A's and one B and it had written in there, two missing assignments.

and then my grade and so I brought that down to the teacher's classroom and I put the grade card on her desk and I said my mom would like to have a conversation with you about this grade. So things like that have been you know it has been

Rick Sola (12:48.841) Hahaha

That's awesome.

Brian Barackman (12:56.197) just a positive way to build that relationship coming in in this role and just to know that we've known each other for a long time and we're now able to do it together, which is pretty neat.

Rick Sola (13:09.88) So you taught, how many years did you teach before making that transition?

Brian Barackman (13:13.997) I taught science for six years and then it was a sister principal for four.

Rick Sola (13:19.436) you know, and maybe present company excluded here. I know that transition to administration, you know, was at Prairie Trail where I was. And truly, those were two extremely fun years. We had a really great time. But was there ever a moment...

Brian Barackman (13:23.845) You

Rick Sola (13:37.066) early on in administration where you felt like, man, this is not what I thought. Maybe really kind of put to challenge that decision of making that career change, if you will, into administration.

Brian Barackman (13:52.388) Well, I think one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from, it was an assistant principal at the time who was talking to me about when do you make the jump from teaching to administration? Is it too soon for me? It was probably like my fourth or fifth year I was dabbling with the idea. And his advice was go while you still love teaching.

because I think people can feel when an administrator has a love for the classroom and a passion for teaching and when they don't. So that's why I went when I felt like it was pretty early, six years of teaching, I understand that's pretty early. But that advice made me think, you know what, I'm gonna bring that passion that I still have for the classroom to this role. So to answer your question more specifically,

I don't think there's been a time where I said, man, I don't know if I should have done this, if I regret this, but there are absolutely times where I miss teaching. I loved my teaching career. I loved getting to know those students at a different level than we often get to. You get to know your group of students so deeply and so well.

Rick Sola (14:57.357) Yeah.

Brian Barackman (15:11.397) You know, those relationships and watching them learn throughout a unit, throughout a school year, all the things that everybody loves about teaching, I definitely often miss. But that doesn't mean that I regret making this decision. You know, I am incredibly happy as an assistant principal and a principal. I think I look back to those early administrators that were inspiring to me and think like, man, they don't just make a difference for these kids in this classroom, they make a difference.

for every student in this building, every teacher in this building, every member of this community, you know, and I don't know if I'm doing that, but I'm sure trying. So, yeah.

Rick Sola (15:51.628) Yeah, I really like that answer. There are definitely times where it's easy to miss teaching. There's a lot about teaching that is wonderful.

I have said on here before, I love what I do. I feel like I am so lucky. I've had the best job, you know, and fortunate to do it, but there are certainly times where teaching's fun. There's a whole different level of relationship that you can have with students. It still exists as principals, and that's been a topic on here before as well. But that teacher-student relationship is pretty neat, so I really, really like

that. You are doing some really cool things at Indian Trail. I saw a picture of you surface over the weekend covered in paint or dust or you were like every color of dust. What was that all about? What was going on over the weekend?

Brian Barackman (16:43.395) You

Brian Barackman (16:54.273) Yeah, we had a little bit of fun this weekend. So I'm sure you've all seen something like this before, but it was a color run fundraiser. So it's one of those where the students will run laps, kind of like a 5K, but along the way you throw different color paint on them as they go around. it was the final celebration of the school fundraiser that we've been doing.

all surrounding our house system.

Rick Sola (17:27.435) Yeah, I'm going to say it looked like people had a really good time throwing stuff at you, like especially the color. Like they really, they got their money's worth out of it is what it looked like.

Brian Barackman (17:33.541) You

Brian Barackman (17:38.102) Yeah, I would say I was coming out pretty clean and then toward the end a couple students noticed that I was dodging a lot of the paint. So they grabbed a couple bottles and surrounded me and I didn't, I'm still cleaning out paint dust out of my car. It's all over my back right now from the weekend still.

Rick Sola (17:50.092) Ha ha.

Rick Sola (17:56.238) Well, you brought up the house system and that's what I wanted to get into is you got a really cool thing going at Indian Trail that truly is unique in Olathe. I think you're the only school as far as I know that at least middle school for sure, but if not all schools, but you've employed a house system that was developed out of visiting the Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta.

And you went, maybe it was your first year as principal, you went down there, I don't know if training's the right word, experience, but talk about that experience down at the academy down in Atlanta and then what it is that's going on at Indian Trail with your house system.

Brian Barackman (18:39.555) Yeah, so I'll tell you a little bit about it and then I would love to brag on my staff for how we began doing this house system at Indian Trail. if anyone's familiar with the Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta, our system is essentially built around there. So in summary, those of you familiar with Harry Potter, think broad strokes Harry Potter. When students come

to the school for the first time, they are sorted into one of four houses and every student gets to be in a house and they remain in that house all three years of their time here. And same with staff members. So the four houses, they're different from the Harry Potter houses. Like I said, it's kind of just broad strokes, but each house has its own colors, its own crest, its own songs, its own cheers, chants, symbolists.

traditions, and it's just a really special unique experience from each four houses. Then the goal is that you, since you stay in that same house all three years of your time here, you not only get to meet the students that are in your classes, but you deepen your middle school experience by getting to know students in other grade levels that you wouldn't otherwise have crossed paths with because they're in your house, and other teachers that you can build relationships that you don't necessarily

really have for class, but you get to interact with at all of our house activities. So the general idea is, you know, number one, to add a fun system to kind of organize everything we do. But most importantly, it's to make students feel connected to the school. And that just adds so many other layers and opportunities for them to feel connected to the school. And then it's the keynote of our PBIS system. So when students do

you know, our values of ownership, unity, respect, and safety. That spells hours and we say this house is ours. That's our system. A nod to the house system. Students get, not only will you get points that you can use in our school store as an individual, but any points that you receive also go to your house. So similar to Harry Potter at the end of the school year, there's a house cup that the winning house gets and like a ceremony where we celebrate that.

Brian Barackman (21:09.095) And we've done things like each each week the house that's in the league you get to fly your flag out on the flagpole We have a house leaderboard in the main hallway so people can track your progress and get some friendly competition going But we do have a motto. It's four houses one family one cougar family So we got to make sure that you know, we can have some friendly rivalries, but that it is a positive behavior Intervention system, right? So that we got to keep it

So we support each other. All houses are great. it's just a really, really special thing that it does come from the Ron Clark Academy. So all credit for these ideas and structures go to them. But I do think we're one of not very many schools in the area that use this system. And it just really adds a special layer of both fun and connection and community and excitement to everything we do.

Rick Sola (22:07.063) What's an example of like a cross grade level activity or something being done at the school? Yeah.

Brian Barackman (22:13.199) Sure, sure.

Yeah, so I'll give you two. One is a more fun one. So my house is the House of Amistad, which is Spanish for friendship, and our main color is red. And since we are in Chief's Kingdom, we do one of our after school events. One of our traditions is on a night where we have a Chief's game, like a Monday night football or Thursday night football, we'll do a tailgate. So we'll tell everyone in the school

wear red, we'll grill hot dogs, we'll play yard games, and the students from Amistad are all invited to attend for free and eat for free and have a little, you know, a little after school bonding activity with teachers and students of Amistad at all grade levels. So a really fun way to have a little community cookout with our House of Amistad.

Rick Sola (23:04.363) Okay.

Rick Sola (23:08.725) So that's, and that's just the Amistad students and staff.

Brian Barackman (23:12.825) Correct, yes, each house has activities that they do after school, all very different, different traditions. So other houses will have their opportunities to do something, bonding activity like that, but that one would be just for Amistad.

Rick Sola (23:29.101) So does each team or house, does each house have a kind of a leadership board? Like who's organizing that? Is that for you as administrator or how does that work?

Brian Barackman (23:42.178) Yeah, well, this is one thing I would love to brag about our staff.

We are our teachers and everyone gets into the house to assist them. Teachers, custodians, paraprofessionals, nurse, counseling office, everyone is just makes this so much fun and so special. So we are blessed to have a community that really has fun with it and believes in the power of the house system. So we have tons of people who are on board for planning these activities. And I think the reason it works so well

in our building and the biggest shout out to our staff is this structure came from our staff. It started with a one seventh grade team that won a grant to go visit the Ron Clark Academy and fell in love with everything. If you ever have an opportunity to do any professional development down there, go because it is a really special place. It'll get you excited about education and leave you with tons of ideas.

that you can concrete ideas you can bring to your school. So that group of seventh grade teachers went down there on that grant, brought the house system back to just that seventh grade team. The following year it grew to the seventh grade participated in the house system and then everyone saw how amazing it was. So then the year after that they expanded to the whole building. And now I believe we're on our...

a sixth year, I believe, doing the house system as a whole building. So that was one of the things that makes it so special and gives us so much buy-in is it was teacher discovered, teacher organized. It all comes from within and it's something special for us.

Rick Sola (25:30.066) So what's another example, a non-amistad example of activity going on?

Brian Barackman (25:34.298) Hahaha

Well, those ones don't matter as much, right? No, I'm kidding. Four houses, one family. Four houses, one family. So another maybe more academic example are half days. So our district has four or five half days throughout the school year. So instead of just doing like 15, 20 minutes of each class period on those days, our entire days are structured around our house system. one thing we did, like my first couple of years especially,

Rick Sola (25:37.557) Yeah, yeah.

Brian Barackman (26:05.831) because we wanted to have some academic social emotional time with small family style groups with sixth, seventh, and eighth grade mixed students. So we would spend the first 20 minutes or so of those half days in those groups with those students of all three grade levels but within your house to do some house bonding activities and also maybe some social emotional lessons, maybe some school spirit activities.

maybe some academic activities, and then to kick off the half day. So we tried to, you know, really find every opportunity for them to build those extra connections that they wouldn't otherwise have. And then the rest of our half days we did, you know, like house assemblies, our house cheers, the houses split up and do, you know, different activities that they, you know, each of them have different traditions, like I said, that they do for those. So that's another example of how we might use that house system.

that way.

Rick Sola (27:06.655) It seems like a really natural kind of framework for our PBIS. So we're in a district that's 100 % PBIS adopted. Every building's got a system. And this just seems to dovetail right into it. Very, almost seamlessly, it sounds like.

Brian Barackman (27:22.498) Absolutely.

Yeah, we were pretty much, you know,

executing the PBIS plan, you know, before we adopted this. You know, we were giving all the stuff that was in place before we became a PBIS school. We were, you we had the kids in houses, we were giving house points, they were getting points toward their house cup. We were trying to point out the positive behaviors to give the points for. You never take points away, like Dumbledore, you know, takes 20 points away from Slytherin.

that would probably be your house there Mr. Sola for their bad behavior. It's all about positivity. Yeah, you knew what you signed up for. Yeah, but it's all about positivity, rewarding students for their good choices, not only kindness but also working hard in the classroom, academic side of things as well.

Rick Sola (28:01.165) You know.

I invite you onto the show and this is uncalled for. No, I know.

Rick Sola (28:25.165) Do you ever come across, I'm just trying to think, you know, maybe a principal head here of like possible challenges. Like you mentioned something really cool, a tailgate for your Amistad family or your Amistad house. Do you ever get feedback from students like, I wish our house did this or, or, you know, does that ever creep up to where there's like, you know, house envy, if you will, of wanting to be on the other.

Brian Barackman (28:49.199) Sure.

Rick Sola (28:53.92) team or whatever.

Brian Barackman (28:56.239) Sure, I think, yeah, that does naturally come up sometimes. And I think that our culture of four houses, one family, you know, we kind of have established ahead of time, like, hey, we're going to treat each other with positivity. So that kind of culture helps stay some of that. However, that happens sometimes. And I notice it the most when the first house that has an activity of the school year, then somebody has to go first, right? So the other three houses sometimes at that time will say,

I wish I could go to that I want to be a part of that and you know until we say hey You know what I know it's gonna be really fun. I'm so sorry however I know that the house of rever is doing this awesome activity here in a couple weeks And I'm so jealous that you get to do that But you're gonna love that with you and your house of reverse So and then once they have their own activities people start to understand okay? You know all four houses have these really cool special things and while they might be different everybody

everybody has their fun and everybody has their opportunity. And then we do, we have done many things. Usually first semester we do our own house activities and then a lot of times second semester we'll do some joint activities. like we did a Amistad and Isabendi, did a joint glow party one year and then Altarismo and Rever did a kickball tournament. So we'll do some stuff together as well to keep it interesting.

for the students, you know, but there is a little bit of that, but once they get the taste of their own house activities, they realize, man, this is, every house has its special unique things, and I'm okay with that.

Rick Sola (30:37.921) Well, one thing that's really neat as an outsider to Indian Trail, but very close in proximity, driving by the building and seeing the flag of whatever house that's up there. I just think that is really cool to see the flag flying. then on your your sign out front, you've got the logos for each of the houses on your sign. And I just think that's a really positive reminder and kind of advertisement, if you will, to your family, your community of

Just an additional great thing going on in the building, I'm sure the kids are going home talking about their house and what it is that is going on in the building with their house.

Brian Barackman (31:17.803) Absolutely, yeah. would say a shout out to Ms. Sham and Ms. March for making those custom-made marquee signs with our house symbols on it. It was pretty cool. I was pretty excited when those worked out. They engineered those up special just for us. But yeah, and I do think too it adds to, you want your students to come home and have a really memorable first day at school. know, and every school I've ever been at did an amazing job of making that day

not only fun but special and meaningful for their students. But like I said, this just adds a whole other layer to, know, not only is it the balloons and the fog machines and the drums and the excitement to figure out what house am I in, but man to know that this is going to be where I belong for the next three years, not only in the Cougar family, but also in my house family just adds a whole other layer of, you know, special feeling for those kids.

Rick Sola (32:15.181) Well, that's awesome. will in our show notes, I'll put a link to the Academy for those who are interested. Like I said, it's unique here in Olathe. You're the only school that has it and are doing it. And you're doing a really nice job with it six years into it. That's a long time in our field. know, things things can come and go multiple times over in six years. And so that speaks volumes.

Brian Barackman (32:31.183) yeah.

Brian Barackman (32:36.163) Mm-hmm. Well, that's...

It speaks volumes of not only how fun it is, but of our teachers. They really make it special. They've bought into this, they have fun with it, it means a lot to them. The costumes that our teachers have built over the years to wear on our half days in assemblies have gotten pretty elaborate. When I reflect on that, I reflect on the type of staff that we have that care so much and are willing to be.

you know, you know, bought into our school, our community, our culture. Not to mention it's changed how we've organized a lot of things like, you know, for example, for PEP assemblies, we don't sit by grade level like normal. You always sit with your house. So you have your, you know, that mixed group. And there's a lot of little examples like that of just we, you know, we do things by house, not necessarily by grade level or by homeroom or anything like that.

Rick Sola (33:25.325) Hmm.

Rick Sola (33:37.87) Yeah, that's really interesting, kind of breaking down the barriers of grade level. Because that could be, you for sixth graders, intimidating when they start school and they see the big eighth graders walking around, but to have them all on the same team, that's really neat. Well, thanks for sharing about that. And before we get off of this here, we are on our way, you and I and our eight other counterparts, on our way to the KPA conference here very soon in Wichita.

and this is your first time going to KPA, is that correct?

Brian Barackman (34:11.841) Absolutely, and I'm very excited. I'm very excited. I got to look ahead at the list of the sessions. what's so exciting for me is, you know, I've been to, you know...

I don't want to say a lot of conferences, but several different types of conferences here and there. As an administrator, I'm always looking for, which ones of these apply to me or which ones of these. There's a lot of specialized conferences and lot of specialized sessions. What I'm really excited about KPA is it's a conference that's tailored to us. I'm looking through that thinking, oh man, I wish I could go to almost all of these sessions.

How am I gonna pick between, I'm not searching for the couple that may apply. I'm like trying to narrow it down as best I can to the ones I wanna go to and I'm excited for the opportunity.

Rick Sola (34:54.306) Right.

Rick Sola (35:05.249) Yeah, it'll be a good time and going with our group, know that divide and conquer aspect is probably a likelihood. Some of the other value to it is just sitting in those sessions with principals from other districts all over Kansas and.

Having those shoulder partners when we don't share a district, but we share the issues and we share the topics and things that come up. It's gonna be a great time. Really looking forward to it and I'm excited for the next few days here when we get down to Wichita. you know, Brian, I can't help but notice over your shoulder here on the camera, it looks like a Dundee award. And so...

Brian Barackman (35:44.486) I got I actually have a few of those My favorite one I would say I got when I was your assistant principal It was from a student and the plaque on the Dundee says assistant to the principal Which I thought was pretty clever. So I that's my favorite one I got over there That makes so much sense

Rick Sola (36:02.83) I never told you that I made him give that to you. that's yeah. No, I don't see that. I don't see that that apple you got back there. But no, I was going to ask you. I know. know. OK, this is this is totally, totally cold here. Let's see. What leadership traits can you relate to most from Michael Scott?

Brian Barackman (36:15.205) You're the Dwight in this situation. I hope you know that.

Brian Barackman (36:30.565) Man, some days it feels like the one where you always feel like you put your foot in your mouth. No, you know, man, I fortunately, I would hope don't have too many qualities like his because he probably should have been fired a thousand times over. But you know, at the end of the day, I'll say he always cared.

Rick Sola (36:49.676) You

Brian Barackman (36:53.773) You know, and he loved what he did. And maybe that's the one, that's the one. Because this job, as you all listening know, you know, any job in education can be really hard and really stressful and really, you know, you see so many sad things that these poor kids are going through. But at the end of the day, working with kids is fun, you know.

Rick Sola (36:57.505) Yeah.

Brian Barackman (37:13.433) That's what's so rewarding and the servant leadership portion of this is, know, of course we all have have bad days and hard stretches, but the the pros far outweigh the cons. The good far outweighs the bad. The happy fun days and happy fun activities we get to do with the kids far outweigh the tough ones. And so I guess me and Michael Scott at the end of the day love the people that we're with and the the the career that we get

participated.

Rick Sola (37:45.164) That's a good answer. And I was kind of hoping I would stump you a little bit, but no, that's an excellent answer and awesome to hear. Well, we're going to find out how good my editing is at the end of this, because if you've listened all the way through this and didn't notice a hiccup in the show, that's great. That means my editing was good. But if it felt a little clunky in the middle...

Brian Barackman (37:47.397) You

Rick Sola (38:08.877) the principal job just sometimes kind of creeps in and even while we're recording. So there was a little interruption that had to be paused for the show. And so I just wanted to point that out.

Brian Barackman (38:18.789) To be clear, it was on Rick's end, not on my end. I've been nothing but professional over here.

Rick Sola (38:22.029) Well, I didn't say it was unprofessional. I said it was just a principle matter that needed some attention. that's how it goes. Well, Brian, you've done a lot of really positive sharing and bragging on your people as I like to end our show. Any final words on the Indian Trail community that you want to...

just share for the people here listening to Cool Coffee.

Brian Barackman (38:53.539) Yeah, no, I just want to say, you know, number one.

Rick, thank you for the opportunity. And number two, I know I've said it a couple times, but we have a staff that I just can't say enough about. This is a title building and that can have extra challenges and can be a tough position, but we also have very low turnover. And I don't think that has anything to do with what I'm doing. I think it has everything to do with the kind of people that they are. They're the type of people that are willing to go above

and beyond for students and they're the type of people that are willing to stay after school to help. I've seen so many people give their own time and money just to help families with such, you know, and unique needs in different ways. And, you know, it's just, you know, it's inspiring to see and it's a blessing to be around those types of people that, you know, if they do that for other students and they're doing it for each other and they're going to do it for you too in your time of need, you know, so we got a wonderful group here.

I said it's everything to not anything to do with what I'm doing everything to do with the type of people that they are and I'm lucky to call myself part of the cougar family

Rick Sola (40:06.247) Yep. Well, as I show this podcast, being one that's intended to really just celebrate what a principal is, the principalship, the job and role of principal, I appreciate hearing you say it's not what you're doing, it's the people you're with. And I know that you have great, great people over there. But I would also say don't sell yourself short. You're doing amazing things over there. And people like to work for good principals. And I know you're a really good principal.

Brian Barackman (40:35.727) Well, thank you.

Rick Sola (40:36.329) You know, I'm going to go, that's the nicest thing you're, I might even have to edit this out. I don't know how comfortable I feel about saying that, but no, truly, Brian and I, we got to know each other over the two years at Prairie Trail, but you're doing really, really great things. And people like to be in buildings where they know their, you know, their principal loves their job. Like you said, that Michael Scott quality there. So.

Brian Barackman (40:42.819) What?

Brian Barackman (41:04.323) Well, thank you. appreciate that. I had some great role models along the way. We'll leave it at that right there.

Rick Sola (41:09.407) Yeah. No, please go on. No. Hey, I really appreciate your time. I know it's really busy. We're actually going to site council tonight, the district site council. So I'll see you here in a little while. But looking forward to a couple days down in Wichita and learning with you and all the other principals in Kansas.

Brian Barackman (41:30.519) Absolutely, anybody that's listening to this that goes down to the conference and you want to talk house system or the office, I'm your guy.

Rick Sola (41:40.821) Sounds good. Hey, Brian, have a good night. We'll see you soon.

Brian Barackman (41:44.122) Yeah, thanks so much Rick, I appreciate it. Have a good one.

• Barney Pontious
• Principal
• Garfield Elementary
• USD 503
• X= @mr_pontious
• Garfield Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GarfieldSchoolParsonsKS

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The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Assistant Principal Megan Black

Olathe West High School

USD 233 - Olathe

X: @MaBlackOW

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Principal Katie Revell

Principal 

Simpson Elementary

Russell USD 407

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Principal Kerry Lane

Olathe East High School - Olathe USD 233

X: @Kerry282542

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Principal Stefanie Lane

Lincoln Elementary School

Clay Center Schools USD 379

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Joel Wells

Principal

Elmont Elementary

Seaman Schools USD 345

X: @jwesu5

FB: @elmontusd345

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Register to attend the 2025 KPA Conference!

2025 KPA Conference Presenters: 

Dr. Heather Calvert

• Principal, Grant Elementary School
• KCKPS
• heather.calvert@kckps.org

Inge Esping

• Principal
• McPherson Middle School
• inge.esping@mcpherson.com

Chapters (timestamps do not include intro music)

00:00 Introduction to the Principals 02:22 Career Paths in Education 06:57 Data-Driven Instruction and Collaboration 14:44 Building Belonging and SEL Initiatives 20:39 The Importance of Community in Education

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (timestamps do not reflect intro music)

Rick Sola (00:01.719) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas principals. Today I am joined by two phenomenal principals who will both be presenting at the upcoming KPA conference November 6th, November 5th and 6th, Ms. Inga Esping of McPherson Middle School, USD 418 and Dr. Heather Calvert, principal of Grant Elementary School and USD 500 in the Kansas City, Kansas School District. Welcome Inga and Heather.

Inge Esping (00:27.67) Thank you.

Heather Calvert (00:28.66) Thank you, good morning.

Rick Sola (00:30.283) Good morning. And it is a good morning. It's a bright and early morning and I am in conference week. Inga, you're in conference week and you actually have a day off and it is just after 7 a.m. So thanks for joining us. And Heather, you have a normal school day but conference is next week.

Inge Esping (00:43.918) you

Heather Calvert (00:47.803) Yes.

Rick Sola (00:49.213) It's that time of year and kind of the grind. And before we begin, I do want to call your attention to the notes of this show, which include information on the KPA conference. We'll be discussing that today and also invite you to give this show a like and a follow. Leave a comment on your podcasting platform if you are so inclined or leave us feedback and suggestions at the forum in the show notes. So it is awesome to be joined by two very accomplished principals here today and

Inga, you were recently named the KPA's middle level principal of the year through KPA.

Inge Esping (01:25.602) Yes, yeah, just what an exciting honor. I was certainly shocked and it's definitely a testament to the hard work that our staff and students are putting in here at MacPherson Middle School.

Rick Sola (01:37.845) That's awesome. Congratulations to you and a plug as well. And I don't know if you knew this, but as of recording, which is October 16th, but your principal's perspective was actually dropped today, this morning. And so, thank you for your contribution on that. and then Heather, you are published. You've had a book out and within the last year, along with, with your husband co-authored, I think with your husband, is that correct?

Inge Esping (01:50.403) you.

Heather Calvert (02:04.702) Correct, yes.

Rick Sola (02:06.487) And Topeka's top 20 under 40 named a few years ago. So awesome things going on and two very accomplished principals excited to hear more from you today. I do want to start and Heather, we'll just kick it over to you to start here, but a quick road in education and you are currently sitting at Grant Elementary in the KCK School District.

your road to get to the chair you're at right now, what did that look like?

Heather Calvert (02:38.45) Yeah, it's been a fun, fun road. So I grew up in Topeka, Kansas, started my teaching career in 2007 in the Topeka Public Schools District and just kind of worked my way up through classroom teacher, instructional coach, building intern, assistant principal, and then principal. I've been at Grant now for seven years and we have just, it's just been crazy being over in Kansas City, Kansas public schools. I love this district so much. Our building is, is just

taking off. The staff here are outstanding and we're just making waves every day with our students and our community and so excited.

Rick Sola (03:18.123) That's awesome. Was there a moment in your career where you felt like, okay, I'm going administration. Like you were just tugged or did it just kind of happen or how did you get into administration?

Heather Calvert (03:28.446) just kind of came naturally. I was blessed with a lot of opportunities that just kind of opened at the right time. When I was a classroom teacher and a couple of my fellow teachers were starting a master's program in curriculum and instruction and they said, come on, let's do it together. And I said, okay, great. You know, what else is going on? So did that and then that opened the door to instructional coaching. As I was finishing that degree, our district started a program partnership with K-State to do a program for educational leadership.

as a cohort embedded in the day and that turned into a doctorate and just that pipeline just pulled me right in and I've loved every minute of it.

Rick Sola (04:08.087) Awesome, very cool. Yeah. It's amazing how you start like unraveling things and all the next thing you know, you're, knee deep and you're moving forward and, uh, you know, opportunities start to present themselves and really cool. Awesome. Well, Inga, you are at McPherson middle school, uh, your road to that chair.

Inge Esping (04:27.532) Well it's a little bit funny I actually student taught in this building. So there's the the gal that I student taught with just retired two years ago. So that's it's been fun just to come full circle. But I student taught here I was a teacher here at MacPherson Middle School. I went to the Mays district as well. I was a teacher and principal there. I've been the assistant director of special education for MacPherson schools. And during that time I I

it was a little bit of an accident to get into that role. I started hiring and training paraeducators. I was a special educator and became really passionate about how do we make sure our paraeducators have the skills that they need to be successful in supporting our students with special needs. That kind of morphed into assistant director of special education through some changes and expansion. And then I really missed kids. I missed being around kids all day long. So became very motivated to go back and

the building. I became the assistant principal and athletic director here at MMS. I went to Mesa's principal for a short stint and then this building opened up as head principal and I just had to come back. I definitely love this district and love this building in particular.

Rick Sola (05:44.908) I love that. Actually, you just prompted an idea for another show, which is principals who were formerly at the head office and decided to come back. They miss the kids too much or, you know, they say we go to the dark side. Is that the darker side? And then like, we got to come back. I don't know. No, that's awesome. And I got to imagine that a special ed director, he said assistant director. What a, what a valuable experience to have.

Inge Esping (06:07.448) Mm-hmm.

Rick Sola (06:11.741) sitting where you're at now as far as a building principle goes.

Inge Esping (06:16.418) Yes, we host all of our cooperative specialized programs for middle level students. And so that experience has been really valuable to have to help coach both our special educators, but then our general ed teachers on how to be best support students with special needs from that general ed lens too.

Rick Sola (06:38.133) Yeah. Well, so you're both on here because I was looking at the presenters for the upcoming KPA conference and you were both listed and you're both presenting. And so, you know, this is a conference that as I've gotten to become more familiar with and attend, I've just really enjoyed in part really because it's a principle focused conference and the networking is so valuable. All those things, but

I know that going to every session, it's going to be super relevant to what it is that I do and that we do. so I wanted to be able to share this out because this episode will come out with about two weeks until the conference, just under two weeks. And so to provide a little bit of a preview. so Heather, we'll start with you. The name of your session and kind of in a nutshell, I think you have, you know your time slot or has that been confirmed yet?

Heather Calvert (07:34.62) Yes, I will be Thursday at 8.30 in the morning, bright and early.

Rick Sola (07:38.519) All right, kicking off the day. So what do you?

Heather Calvert (07:40.508) Yes, so my is called data cycles and effective method for data analysis and it's just kind of grown. So this work started actually when I was in the classroom as a teacher in Topeka public schools and you know districts.

that time, early 2000s, we were really moving into the PLC model of collaboration and wanting teams to take ownership of what those collaborative team meetings looked like, but focused not on the busy work, but more on the actual data-driven work, diving deep with your teams, collaborative planning. And it just, sounds really easy when you say that, but what happens when you're in that as a teacher or I learned later when you're trying to lead that as an instructional coach or a principal is that it's easy to get drowned out

to not know what that specifically looks like every single time and really make the best use of that time to keep it focused. And so we created an Excel spreadsheet with all these formulas in it that make it super easy to stay focused, to walk through a process of what it looks like with your team, to really collaborate on what standard are we focused on in this upcoming unit, where are our students at right now, what instructional strategies do each of those students need specific to the student, not just to the whole group, and then how are we tracking

that throughout, what does it look like at the end? It graphs the data for you. So as a leader, we've really just leaned into this with our teams here and our instructional coach and myself, we have backed out of really running every collaborative team meeting and turn that back over to the teachers. But it gives us a way to follow that process for them, even when we're not sitting with them, but also for them to really see the meaningful work that they're doing and be able to attack those gaps and disparities right in the moment.

It's just been absolutely changing. I've led it in multiple buildings. I've shared it with principals across our district here in Kansas City, Kansas public schools and watching the data shift and the teachers collective efficacy really rise through that process has been absolutely outstanding.

Rick Sola (09:41.24) So you've been at Grant for seven years. So you said seven years. So would you say when you started, you mentioned the PLC model and the use of data. Did you feel were you kind of starting at ground zero or did you have kind of a foundation to build off of from from that point forward?

Heather Calvert (09:44.745) Mm-hmm.

Heather Calvert (09:58.9) We were absolutely starting at ground zero. Teachers were very hungry for it. So we were a TSI school at the time, CSI school, and our state assessment scores were under 5 % proficient in every grade level and had been consistently for a long time. And so it gave us a great leverage point to say, what do we have to lose by trying it with teachers? Even if you don't like it or it doesn't work.

Okay, you know, we're not going down from here, but watching them leverage and we, it's just become very ingrained. It's in our Indistar plan. It's been very ingrained in the work that we do. Teachers throw it around, you know, all the time. Oh, what step are we on? You know, all the things and they feel that they have the ownership and the power to pick the standards that they want to really leverage into our curriculum as a resource. We are the owners of that. We are the educators. We are empowered to do the work that we need to do with our students.

Rick Sola (10:49.377) What were the challenges that you had early on trying to kind of build a new framework and it sounded like there was a want for a buy-in and a need, but what were some of those roadblocks or stumbling blocks that you had early on?

Heather Calvert (11:02.9) Yeah, even with the want, their data's scary. And putting your data as a teacher in any sort of visible format is always scary and very intimidating for teachers because it's very vulnerable. It puts you in a vulnerable spot. It makes you question if the students didn't get it. It's just personal for educators. What did I do wrong? It's my fault they didn't get it. so,

Having to shift that into it's the team, it's all the kids at the grade level. They're not your students, they're our students and we're all in this together. So don't ever be embarrassed or feel upset about your data. It is what it is and we're a team that's going to rally behind you and our students to improve that. But it really, it's shifted our team conversations, it's shifted that collective efficacy with our teams. It's empowered our teams to seek extra resources through our intervention teacher, through our ESL teacher, through our

department they're asking very specific questions now instead of just saying well I don't know what to do you know I need you to help me do this.

Rick Sola (12:03.799) Did you find, I like that word scary with.

with data because it could kind of feel that and that that vulnerability and you know and just personalize it. Yeah I try to emphasize the data is our building data. It's not a particular department but that's a really hard sell for those that are in that department and they see their name next to it you know that sort of thing. Was there anything that you did intentionally to really kind of try to remove that feel or in hindsight you look back on like I would I would kind of frame this differently to try to

make it more comfortable.

Heather Calvert (12:39.508) I mean, it sounds really harsh, but I would openly just continue to ask in whole group sessions, you know, who has been written up for their data.

And having everybody watch, like, what negative consequence have you gotten because you put data on a spreadsheet that wasn't 100 % of kids passing or 100 % of kids meeting a standard? And as teachers start to realize that even as an administrator, I'm in this work with you and I'm not here to judge or critique or tell you that you're not good enough or your data is not good enough, we're asking you to try every day and try to get a little bit better every day and just keep having the right conversations and you will see that shift. And it empowered our teachers just to be comfortable.

to start that work and then when the data started to shift it was just all steam ahead. You know they believed in it then they saw it and they were more willing to take risks and be more vulnerable with their data.

Rick Sola (13:31.799) Are student celebrations a part of that at all? when they like, do you have data, you know, I don't want to say real time, but in a way that you can bring students into that or is there an angle on that with students?

Heather Calvert (13:46.86) So we've started, we added that in a little bit later, and so we do it a couple different ways. We're PBIS school and district, and so one of our character words is pride, and so teachers have started nominating students for pride in that work.

and just for the students recognizing their growth, not just waiting for the teacher to say it. We also added in data cards that students can collect their data on. Even at the elementary level, it works. Our kindergartners are doing it with stickers on charts and dots and colored things in. And our intermediate students are more using data points and graphing. And we don't do it a lot. It's not like an everyday task, but we do like to show them this is where you started and this is where you ended. Look at your growth, even if you're not where we need you to be or where we want you to

or what the state standard says you need to be at. Look at your growth, keep working. And it's shifted our student culture as well of I can be a learner.

Rick Sola (14:40.331) Yeah, I really love the focus on growth because sometimes we'll see students grow and they don't grow out of a level or something. But we need to be able to celebrate with them. Hey, you're making strides. sometimes things take time. It'll take time, but you're making growth. And I think that's really important. That's great. So 8.30 Thursday morning, November 6, you're kicking off the day. And is this your first time?

presenting at KPA.

Heather Calvert (15:11.826) This is my first time presenting at KPA. I'm super excited. I'm excited that it's in a great time of year, know, when I think administrators are really needing that refresh, but also looking for new ideas to start planning seeds for second semester. I'm excited just to meet and navigate with other Kansas principals.

Rick Sola (15:29.847) So it's 830 Thursday morning, Dr. Heather Calvert. And I'm sorry, it's called Data Cycles. Is that what we're going to be looking for in the program guide, which I have not yet seen and published. But all right, very good. Inga, and you are also presenting. And what is your topic titled?

Heather Calvert (15:36.456) Yes. Yes.

Inge Esping (15:51.308) Yeah, ours is building belonging, how our bullpup time has transformed our SEL here at MMS.

Rick Sola (15:59.7) Awesome. And so in a nutshell, what is bullpup time and what is that going to look like?

Inge Esping (16:07.596) Yeah, so we've we've dedicated 20 minutes a day to our SEL, our character development types of lessons. That's where we start each morning. We have seen a huge shift in our student culture. We really believe that this dedicated time has helped our teachers feel more equipped, our students have a positive start to their day. We've put a variety of other structures in place here at MMS that that I'll speak to and my counselors are joining me as

They are the ones in charge of developing the lessons with our SECD team. But we are now on year four. We've got a solid plan for sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. Our Mondays start with grade checks and discussions there. That's where our Zello lessons come in for some career exploration. Every Tuesday, we do Teamwork Tuesday. We do our dedicated SEL lessons on Thursdays. And then Friday, we work on community.

So we are really building towards more restorative practices throughout the school. We've finally been able to leverage our community circles from that bullpup time to now when there's been a wrong that's happened between students in the school. We can come back to the community circle and help students process what happened. What was I thinking at the time of whatever offense? How can we come together and move forward?

forward with one another. So really that shift towards a more restorative approach. We're putting the tools and the skills to build belonging, to build these types of high level conversations in the hands of both our teachers and our students. And our data, has honestly been a little bit crazy. Another piece that we added with this was going cell phone free throughout

the day. Our first year alone our suspension rate reduced by 70%. It's middle school. Of course there is still plenty, too many instances of bullying happening, but to see such a dramatic drop.

Inge Esping (18:25.422) to see our attendance rate skyrocket, to see our grades begin to become more meaningful for students. And then we're also starting to see that transfer just into our general data, our state assessment data, our fast-bridge data.

formative assessments and things like that. So we've been able to really get a good solid base for building a positive culture here. And now I'm super excited to go to Heather's session and think of how we can deepen our work in our PLCs too.

Rick Sola (18:57.783) Yeah, that's awesome. So you kind of alluded to where I'm at, we're a PBIS school and ownership is one of our pillars and you're talking, what you're describing to me sounds like building a lot of ownership and kids and letting them.

have such a big role in their learning, in their behavior in the building. And what I found too is, and I hear this resonating in how you're describing your building, it's just that common language across the building amongst staff to be able, for kids to be able to hear really the same message. And that's really what I have found to be so powerful with some of the SEL approaches and the PBIS approach and that sort of thing.

What time is your session?

Inge Esping (19:43.854) It's Wednesday at 845.

Rick Sola (19:46.633) Alright, so you're both not competing with each other.

Inge Esping (19:50.038) I was thankful to hear that because as I was listening, I was taking notes over here and I was like, thank heavens it's not at the same time I can go to Heather's session.

Heather Calvert (19:51.4) you

you

Rick Sola (19:57.848) Well, and I know Heather had a little bit of a shift in time. And so then I'm thinking in my head, because I know you weren't competing when I arranged this, but then there was a change. I'm like, oh gosh, I hope you're not like squaring off on the cool coffee podcast here. But no, that sounds really awesome and two fantastic sessions. And I'm not sure if.

you're going to present and you have got a team of people that's going with you and you're all kind of dividing and conquering. Is that something that like McPherson and KCK, are you the only ones going out there? Are there others joining you to this conference?

Heather Calvert (20:34.452) I am going solo.

Rick Sola (20:37.142) Okay.

Inge Esping (20:38.67) Same, I'm going solo and Mr. Beam, my assistant principal is going to be here making sure things continue to go smooth, especially since I'm taking our entire counseling department with me for our sessions. So please send him all the positive vibes you can for next Wednesday or I can look for now.

Rick Sola (20:56.183) No drama allowed on those two days at the middle school.

No, it's really cool. This conference, I happen to be able to be going with a team. Our middle school principals are going. And I was going to say that dividing and conquering of sessions, truly there will be, and there are, I've seen a list of competing sessions that are just really strong and having to make a decision. But having you both on here.

today really is kind of a reflection of what I think this conference is all about, what the KPA is all about as far as bringing principles together from different parts of the state, learning from each other. And truly I have learned a lot from each of you and I would love to see both of your sessions and hope to be able to do that. Before we close off here today, I want to just give you both a chance to speak to your kind of experience with

with KPA, the role that you've had and kind of the value that you've had with it. Of course, now leading into this conference, that'll be a couple of weeks away when this comes out. And then I do want to give you both a chance to just brag on your people at McPherson and KCK and for all the millions of listeners of this podcast to hear all about your awesome people that you work with. So Inga, we'll start with you and then we'll flip it over to Heather.

Inge Esping (22:26.796) I think that the most special part of being part of KPA is just being able to connect with other principals, other leaders. It can feel very isolating sometimes to be a principal. In my district, I'm the only middle school principal. You can get so very busy that it's hard to connect with others, learn from others. being a member, being part of this organization is just so very important to.

know where you can reach out to, who you can reach out to, and I'm really excited for the conference to be able to learn from others and just to be able to grow that networking system too. And then here at McPherson Middle School, I tell you, I was here as a teacher, I was here as an assistant principal, and now as principal, I just can't give this place up. I love it here so very much. We have such a dedicated staff. We have folks

who are willing to be brave to try something new. Our conferences, for example, we completely changed the structure this year based on some parent feedback last year, and they were brave enough to say, let's try it, and then let's get feedback and let's go from there. And I think that it just, it takes a lot of guts to be willing to try something new in education, to put yourself out there and be vulnerable in that way as a building. And I'm so thankful that our teachers are willing.

to be vulnerable and that our community is willing to support the ideas that our teachers and our site council have moving forward and willing to give us feedback on this was great. Let's tweak this and I feel that we're pretty special in that here in McPherson that we've got that willingness to allow that type of growth.

Rick Sola (24:16.681) Awesome, very good. Heather?

Heather Calvert (24:19.71) So I am really new in my KPA journey and experiences. I think I've been a member on and off for a couple years throughout as I've kind of bounced between a couple different districts. But super excited just to really leverage in. I think it's a great organization. We can never have enough people in our corner as administrators. Like Inga said, it can be very lonely and very isolating and it's really hard to find people to collaborate with that really understand the struggle that you're going through sometimes or to celebrate with you in really authentic ways because they know the

that it took to get to those celebrations. So really excited just to meet and network and get more actively involved in the organization. I cannot say enough positive things about KCKPS and Grant Elementary. You know, we're a very large district, very diverse district. There's a lot going on in the community all the time, a lot going on to be involved in. Our building is a small little building, very community-based elementary school, and watching the shifts that have been made with our community wrapping around us.

And then watching the City of Kansas City Kansas wrap around us, our building one, we got an award from the mayor for just being involved in the community and to be recognized in a very large urban population for those things is very, it's just telling to the work that's done every day and watching our staff grow and just bond with each other through the difficult moments, through the happy moments. There's just never enough of that. So super excited to meet everybody next or in a couple of weeks. I do it in a couple of weeks and really branch out.

and build more connections.

Rick Sola (25:51.574) Yeah, well I hope to connect with both of you as well. It'll be fun to meet so many of our principals across the state in person. You one thing I liked about both of your answers, you both mentioned your community.

and extending beyond the walls of your school. And I just don't think that can be overstated how important a community is and how important a school is to a community. And then for working in the school, the value of the community around you. And I just love that you both you both reference that and brought that up. So, you know, this episode will come out and let's see, I think it's like October 24th ish or somewhere around there. It's right before Halloween. So I'm to put you both on the spot. What's your favorite scary

movie.

Heather Calvert (26:34.205) I hate scary movies. no. Hate them all.

Rick Sola (26:36.055) Hahaha.

Inge Esping (26:38.51) Well, I don't know that I have a favorite scary movie because I'm right along with Heather, but my children love scary movies. Right now their obsession is mama, so I've actually been able to make it through the whole thing without screaming myself. I think that's just a point of pride. So not a favorite. I just was proud of myself for being brave on that one.

Rick Sola (27:00.011) Well, I'm going to tell you, I'm right along with both of you. I cannot stand scary movies. I don't watch them. I've seen one I think that actually qualifies as a scary movie and that's The Shining. And that was like when I was in high school. I was done. I'm done. I don't like scary movies. I, you know, not to be kind of like a downer on it, but I always kind of enjoy November 1st when Halloween's behind us and we can get onto Thanksgiving and Christmas. So,

Heather Calvert (27:26.004) 100%.

Inge Esping (27:27.534) For sure.

Rick Sola (27:29.429) Well, hey, really appreciate both of you. know it's early on a day off and it's early on a full day of school. And so that you both were willing to jump on here means a lot. Look forward to seeing you here in a few weeks at the KPA conference and we'll sign off.

Heather Calvert (27:46.15) Thank you.

Inge Esping (27:46.168) Thank you very much. Thanks for hosting us.

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Principal Kelly Whittaker

Ottawa High School, USD 290

X: @kelwhitt217

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Cody Dunlap

K-12 Principal

Cunningham - USD 332

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Inge Esping

Principal

McPherson Middle School

USD 418 - McPherson Public Schools

2025 Kansas Middle School Principal of the Year

Facebook https://facebook.com/mmsbullpups

X: @IngeSpinga

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Stacey Green Pre-K-8 Principal Stockton Grade School USD 271 Stockton X: @usd271sgs

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Mr. Casey Seyfert

USD 273

Beloit Jr. Sr. High School

7-12 Principal

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Principal/Director Erica Shook 

Ad Astra Academies, K-12

District: USD 313, Buhler

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Principal Mike Wiley

California Trail MS

Olathe, USD 233

X: @KSUWiley

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Register to attend Kansas Principals Association Conference 2025, November 5-6.

Email: Heath Henderson

USA Board of Directors USD 490

-----------------------------------

Chapters (timestamps do not account for intro)

00:00 Introduction and Overview of Educational Leadership 02:28 The Value of Professional Development Programs 05:11 Community Partnerships and Their Impact 07:38 Reflections on the KPA Conference Experience 10:01 Current School Year Insights and Challenges 12:55 The Importance of Relationships in Education 15:20 Advice for New Principals 18:04 Personal Insights and Community Pride

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT (timestamps do not account for intro)

Rick Sola (00:01.916) Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Principal Heath Henderson from Skelly Elementary School in El Dorado, Kansas. USD 490, part of the pride. Welcome, Heath.

Heath Henderson (00:13.686) Well, thanks for having me, Rick. I am excited to be here and talk about some educational things.

Rick Sola (00:21.928) Well, good deal. I'm looking forward to having a conversation with you. And I've come across you obviously in our board meetings with KPA, but also at USA. I've seen you present and I know you're presenting at KPA here in about a month. So looking forward to hearing about that. Before we get started, I'll do a quick show shout out, check out the show notes, leave feedback or contact me directly with topics or guest ideas. Also, if you're so inclined, give us a like or a follow on your favorite podcast platform.

and help spread the word about the insightful stories from the amazing principals we have right here in the state of Kansas. Like us, follow us here at KPA's Cool Coffee. So Heath, once again, thanks for joining us. It is October 1st. It's 3.54 PM. The day just wrapped. How was your day today?

Heath Henderson (01:11.69) I had a wonderful day. I actually had a 360 coaching session today with the wonderful people at KPA. And so if you are a leader and you haven't taken advantage of the Elevate programs or the 360 coaching or any of those programs, then you're missing out because I always get little bit recharged any time I have the opportunity to collaborate and learn and grow as a leader in those programs.

Rick Sola (01:41.774) I have had the opportunity and actually am currently in one of the Elevate programs. For those who may not be at all familiar or maybe have only heard a little bit, what would be like a 30 second summary that you would give to someone about your experience with.

Heath Henderson (01:56.49) For me, and I say this any chance I get, it is the greatest professional development that you can get as an administrator. I have learned more about how to lead with my leadership style, how to plan, how to impact leadership in my building, how to provide that support for my people to create a positive climate and culture.

And I would say it's more impactful than my whole entire leadership program that I paid a lot of money for. so I don't like saying that very loud, but at the same time, it's been an exceptional journey. Sorry, a little bit longer than 30 seconds, but I get very passionate about it. And I do think people need to jump on board if they haven't.

Rick Sola (02:48.208) No, it's a very candid and real answer. And I wouldn't disagree with you. I've been through, I'm on my second rotation of Elevate and there's so much value in the connection and sitting shoulder to shoulder with people that you don't work with in a district or day to day, but being able to problem solve and think through and reflect on the so many situations that we might have come across as.

Heath Henderson (03:14.146) Well, I would echo that because I always used to say that the best teachers are the best thieves. They steal all the ideas and it's the same thing. And you're sitting in a room full of people with the same growth mindset that you hopefully have. And when you're in rooms with people who are curious and people who are risk takers, you're going to find some fantastic ideas.

Rick Sola (03:40.733) best teachers are the best thieves. I think I need to compile all the sound bites from all of these podcasts, that's like a bumper sticker or something. But it's true, and it's a compliment. And truly, that's really one of the points of this podcast is to share out and give ideas out. And hopefully, we're all learning from each other. So you're kind of, it's a nice segue into the conference. It's, like I said, October 1st.

Just over a month from now is the KPA Conference, November 5th and 6th. You're presenting at the conference and would love to hear a teaser of what it is you're gonna be talking about.

Heath Henderson (04:19.694) So for us, mean, and I say for us because this this I haven't decided whether it's going to be a presentation because you know, last the last presentation I did I also Did it with my student liaison Emma Culberson. She's amazing We have a such a strong team here Sometimes I think when we present by ourselves that kind of negates the importance of that whole team But we're going to talk about the collaboration to impact from collaboration to impact which is partnerships with a purpose and so we'll

That will touch on community partners coming into our school and how that can impact our building, how we can impact some of those community partners. And also within our building, what do those partnerships look like? Whether it's from certified staff to students, or certified staff to classified staff, or classified staff, vice versa. And we have a lot of fun initiatives, impactful initiatives that we do here in our building that are

unique to us, but also again, I'll go back to what I said earlier, they're all little pieces that we've seen at other places that from around the state, from around the country and thought, well, that could work for us. And when you bring it back and it just, it, it, there's some magical things that happen on the South side of El Dorado. And so that's the things we'll be talking about. And so, we'll be bragging about the amazing staff and community that we're from too, because

None of this happens without some of those amazing people who make the work happen.

Rick Sola (05:55.177) What's an example of a community partner that you are working with right now?

Heath Henderson (05:59.964) well, mean, so some of those community partners we're talking about, whether we're talking about our good news clubs or our scouts or our RPD, those are some different things. Our custodial staff, some of those interventions that we are doing with those specific things and those people. I don't want to give too much away. Some of that's going to be at the conference.

And also some of what we're doing with our attendance initiatives that are a little different than other people. We talked a little bit about it, meeting our community and our families where they're at. And we have 24-7 access. Our families have that to us to communicate with us. And so those are things that we have been very intentional on doing. And so we're excited to share some of those ideas.

maybe give some of those ideas and initiatives to other schools that they might be able to use and hopefully take something away that will positively impact their school.

Rick Sola (07:10.364) Yeah, I love that. Anytime I go to a conference, my hope is I'm able to leave with even just a single item that I can bring back and it might impact the school. And you alluded to that. How many years have you been attending this conference? Not to put you on the spot, because I don't know the answer to this, but.

Heath Henderson (07:29.25) So for the KPA conference, this will be my fifth year attending the KPA conference. And I think the state of Kansas with KPA and also USA in the spring, I think that we do just phenomenal stuff at these. And the leadership sessions that we get from principals for principals are just, they're just.

so relevant to what we do every day. That person who's talking to us is giving us information from our seats. And so it's not from a book, it's not from another state, it's not from a company. It is literally somebody doing my job or your job. And hey, they'll be honest and say what works, what doesn't work, and then so they can help you avoid some potholes.

help you grow. So five years and I would say that again going back to investing in yourself, money, money, well spent.

Rick Sola (08:36.732) Yeah, I totally agree. I haven't been to this conference as many years as you, but I have kind of shouted it from the rooftops exactly what you said at the value of this conference. And the spring with USA is so valuable. KPA, it's not as large of a conference, but it's really a strong conference with the presenters, the current principals. And I find it too, it's very candid.

and sometimes even conversational, but anybody who attends is gonna come away with probably multiple things that they're gonna be able to bring back. But then just that networking piece that is really a big part of KPA, but this conference in particular, I'm looking forward to connecting with people like you who, you know, we're on different parts of the state, we don't see each other, but to be able to continue those conversations or start new conversations.

Heath Henderson (09:29.9) Yeah, I agree. we talk about the size of the conference. Well, what I love about the KPA conference specifically is its principles. Where there's, you know, when we get to the other conference, which is a great conference, there's a little, it's a little bit more, you know, you have some central office, you have some technology, have some companies coming in to present. This is such a principle focused conference that is

Like said, it is so relevant and I'm with you. said something earlier about hoping to take something back and I always say when I go into a session, my goal at every session I go into is one thing, one thing. What is one thing I'm going to learn from this session? Whether that's something to take back to my building or just something to consider. sometimes it's a firm, an affirmation. You you go into something and it's affirming you're doing something right in your own building that you might've thought about changing and you're like, wait a second. I just got to get through this.

this little bump right here. It's going to be good. And so it's just been a great, great experience.

Rick Sola (10:34.472) It's actually a really good point, the affirming part, because I don't know. Maybe it's part of my own personal reflection, but there's times you start to second guess yourself, or you're wondering, or like, gosh. And then you hear someone else talk about it, like, well, no. Maybe I'm not far off, or maybe this is working or worth a second look. And so I like that it's not just about change. It's about maybe making better what you're currently doing, or affirming a process, or something that's in place. And that's a really, really good point with that.

Well, so like I said, as we record this, it's just over a month away as this comes out, it'll be even less. But my sentiments are exactly what you said, just the fact that it is a principle focused conference and really just of such value. So looking forward to your presentation and the many, others that we will see out there. Kind of transitioning from that, just talking about the year. Yeah, I said it's October 1st and

I don't know, there's still that sense of like, we're still in the new kind of the new school year. But where I'm at, we're wrapping up the quarter here in a week and we're having conferences and just over a week. And we're really not in the start of the school year anymore. But how's your year gone up to this point, almost a quarter in?

Heath Henderson (11:51.498) Well, I would say that this has been the best year that I've had as an administrator in education. We have had enrollments up a little bit. Our kids have been, they understand and know the Skelly way. And even our kids who are new to us have fit in and been welcomed. And so we have a few new staff and they have.

just come on and added so much new energy and so many new ideas to our building and been met with great collaboration from our veterans who have been here. so, so our year, feel very blessed to say has been very, very good, but you know, in education, we have to knock on wood when we say stuff like that. So we've got to be careful. But I anticipate us having a strong year the whole way through just, have great people and, and yeah, we're only as strong as the people that work in a building. And luckily,

I'm probably the weakest link in this building.

Rick Sola (12:51.996) What's the Skelly way? Give me two or three Skelly way items.

Heath Henderson (12:57.814) Well, so the Skelly way, it's just our social contract that we, in our building, how we're going to treat people. We're going to have good customer service to students, staff, parents, everybody. We're just going to be respectful and, you know, we're going to be proud of who we are and we're not going to be afraid to be proud of who we are. I think that's that whole thing when we're talking about culture and climate. Saying where you're at, who you are, where you're from, we're the Southside Superstars.

We like to imagine greatness down here on the south side of 951 Scaly Street. And that is important to us and making everybody feel welcome. And so when we talk about that social contract, when we talk about doing things the right way, that's what we're referring to.

Rick Sola (13:43.112) What's been a challenge you've had to work through either this year or last year?

Heath Henderson (13:47.982) Well, I think anytime when we talk about challenges in buildings for us, one of our building goals is that chronic absenteeism. So for us, one of those big challenges is continuing to fight that chronic absenteeism, continuing to identify those barriers that are creating some of those things. We are an 85 % free and reduced lunch school.

And so we have some socioeconomic barriers, we have some logistical barriers, but we call them barriers, I'll also just call them opportunities. And one of the things we'll talk about in that presentation is we had four years ago a chronic absentee rate of almost 38%. Well, our chronic absentee rates.

like 16 now. So we've dropped that substantially. And of course, we're going to drop that more. We're going to keep working. We're going keep focusing on doing what we can to help those kids get to school so they can learn and create that safe environment where they want to come to school and try to, like I said, use those opportunities to help. And so that's been the big challenge for us. And I think that's one of those things that we will continue to focus on.

for the foreseeable future because we don't want our kids to think that we're gonna let that happen and we're gonna give up on them. We're gonna make sure that we're help them understand the importance of being here.

Rick Sola (15:26.94) Yeah, no, that's a really, I mean, you cut it in more than half, you sharing that stat. And I want to ask follow-up questions, but I know you're going to talk about it at the conference. I'm going have to come sit in on your session there.

Heath Henderson (15:38.732) Well, and there's some good stuff. Some of it will kind of blend with some of the stuff we've presented in the past, but we've added some new things to it. And really the thing is, how do we engage them? And how do we engage our parents? How do we engage people to want to be somewhere? And you can't control people. You can only influence people. So how do you influence them? And so we had to dig into data, and data would tell us which days kids were there the most.

And we got into daily data throughout the year and we knew that when there was an event going on at a school, kids were at school. Like it shared out. If there was an assembly at school, all the kids were at school. If there was a field trip, kids were at school. If there was, you know, different things. So, okay, how do we create that magic a little bit more frequently? And that's helped us.

Rick Sola (16:28.84) That's awesome. And do you have your time slot for the conference? Are you Wednesday or Thursday?

Heath Henderson (16:34.091) I do not have my time slot yet, I have not looked yet, but we'll get there.

Rick Sola (16:38.248) Okay. I know it's a work in progress too. We're still early and I know submissions are still even being accepted. So no, that's really good. Today is the first day of National Principals Month, which, yeah, so it's great talking with you on this and looking ahead at some things to come. It's National Principals Month. What do you love about being a principal?

Heath Henderson (17:02.606) I love.

Heath Henderson (17:07.906) So it's gonna sound maybe weird because I was a teacher for 20 years before I was a principal and I was a coach for a bunch of years, for 20 years before I was a principal. And what I love most about those is the relationships and the ability to impact wherever I was at. It's the same answer. My why still is the same. It's just my audience is different. And so for, you know, when you were coaching, it's your team, whenever you're a teacher, it's the students in your room. And what I love now is that that...

team of people that I have that opportunity to impact and coach are the teachers, the paras, our custodian, our lunch lady, our secretary, our nurse. The ability to have an impact over the people who touch every single student in our building and also potentially impact our community. That is the part that I enjoy. So that relationship piece.

is something that is near and dear to my heart. so they always, you that's always the first question I'm always gonna ask. And anybody who's ever gonna interview for a job in my school, if they don't talk about relationships anywhere in that interview, then they probably won't work for me. And so, cause that's something that's, it's a foundational thing for me.

Rick Sola (18:28.776) When you made that transition from classroom to administration, did you find it challenging even at first to maintain or create and build those kinds of relationships from a different seat and different perspective?

Heath Henderson (18:42.85) I don't, I didn't personally, and I know that some people do because you have to have your professional boundaries. However, we still have to see people as people. And while we can't necessarily go out, we can still have conversations and be professional. And I can ask you about your family and I can check in on you and I can still see you as a mother or a father first before I see you as a teacher. And that's.

That is very, very important to me as somebody who sat in the other side for so long. The best administrators I ever had were always, always had the ability to connect and relate to their staffs. And again, there was always a boundary still. There's still a boundary. There's still a rule, but that ability to connect is the single most important thing. And I would say that when we talk about teachers, we've all, we all have teachers who

connect with like rock stars with kids. Well, if they can do that, and we can teach them the skill, they're going to be great. And we have the ones who struggle with that ability and they can know everything in the world, but it doesn't matter because it doesn't translate because they don't connect. And so that ability to connect is so important. And so for me, I think it's just one those things where we try to be very intentional. And again, I think it goes back to seeing people as people before you see them as...

employees and teachers and paras and custodians, they're people first. you know, I know every person in my building, you know, if their kids got a game this weekend, if their grandkids got a game this weekend, if their grandchild was just born, if their baby was just born, what's their names and where they're going. And it's just important to care and to show you care and to be genuine. And so for me, I think it's

And it makes it better when you go to work when you like the people you work with and you invest in the people you go to work with. It just makes it better.

Rick Sola (20:39.068) Yeah, that's great. Really enjoyed that answer. It sounds like there's a lot of authentic relationships in your building. And I think that all is toward the good and the purpose of the school as well. But like you said, it makes it more fun. For those who might be listening who are like first year principals or maybe even considering becoming an administrator, what was the best advice you got?

as a principle, either going into the chair or that you got while serving in the chair.

Heath Henderson (21:15.182) Well, and so this is a hard one because there's so many different pieces of advice that are so, so, good. And I just kind of touched on relationships. But I would say, I'm going to go way back to a college football coach of mine and they just said, you never stay the same.

Rick Sola (21:24.786) Yeah.

Heath Henderson (21:42.722) You never stay the same. either, every day you either get better or you get worse. And so it's up to you what kind of day you're going to have and whether you're going to get better today or get worse today. And so when you attack each day with a singular focus to get better, I think that that comes through in growth mindset, it comes through in your relationships, it comes through in your preparation for your staff. And I think that

That has been my mantra in life, is to try to make sure that I don't get worse today. I need to get better today. Because again, if I thought, I didn't do nothing, I didn't stay the same, I got worse. I took a step back. That doesn't mean you're not gonna have days where you don't take a step back. It just means that you gotta be conscious of that. For me, that's more of a life piece of advice than a necessarily leadership piece of advice.

The other piece to that, I will give one leadership piece of advice and that's...

Heath Henderson (22:51.394) You're only as strong as your team. So make sure that you are building your team. And you might not get to pick your team, but you can build your team. And so making sure that you're being very intentional with how you maximize the strength of the people you work with. Because every single person in your building has a strength. Every single person. I don't care who they are. They have a strength. And are you going to do things that ask them

to accentuate their strengths, if you do, then you're doing it right. If you're criticizing their weaknesses instead of emphasizing their strengths, we'll never be able to get them better.

Rick Sola (23:32.988) Yeah, no, that's awesome. Actually, it makes me think of, and I'll put a plug in again for the conference, because I know our mutual friend Dr. Todd Dane is presenting on a really similar topic as far as building your team and being that trust-willing leader and how hard it is sometimes in our position to want to let go of certain things. And I know that that'll be a session of his. No, really, really.

Heath Henderson (23:58.062) Well, and that's one that if you don't go to, then you, then I don't know. I hope we don't have a session at the same time because I'm going to say the same thing because he is absolutely amazing. And if you don't, if you're not going to his sessions, then there's something wrong.

Rick Sola (24:12.176) Yeah. I had a session that I presented at at the same time as a USA. was like, Todd, this is not good for me. But no, it's all good. There's definitely going to be overlap of really good quality sessions. But yeah, some really good things. Hey, before we sign off here, a couple of quick hitters here, just a little bit about you. And part of the reason I'm doing this is because I see a mug over your shoulder here. But we'll see if it matches.

Heath Henderson (24:25.015) Cough

Rick Sola (24:41.916) Favorite movie of all time.

Heath Henderson (24:44.148) off the top of my head, football movie, replacements, gladiator for any other movie.

Rick Sola (24:51.344) OK, football move. That's Keanu Reeves, OK, OK, OK. Yeah. I think Gladier, OK, good one. TV show.

Heath Henderson (24:53.804) Yeah, Shane Falco, footsteps, man. Come on now.

Heath Henderson (25:01.922) Ooh, TV show? Well, I have just, I'm a proud Native American, so, reservation dogs.

Rick Sola (25:13.158) Reservation dogs? Okay.

Heath Henderson (25:14.444) Yeah, it's filmed out of Tulsa. It's a fairly new show. And when I say all time, it's just my favorite recent show. If I was to go all time, I would probably say The Wire or The Sopranos.

Rick Sola (25:20.648) right now.

Rick Sola (25:26.074) Okay. Well, I see world's best boss over your shoulder. So was thinking the office was

Heath Henderson (25:30.198) Well, know, hey, funny thing about that, that is actually a boss's gift. So all these things that you see above me are gifts from staff, students, you know, from over the years. And so I don't ever get rid of it. I always just proudly display it. And so.

Rick Sola (25:34.77) Okay.

Rick Sola (25:51.443) Yeah, that's awesome. That's really cool. Okay, last one. If I'm driving through El Dorado and my alternator happens to go out and I'm stranded on the side of the highway and I need a place to eat, not that that's ever happened to me before, but it has. And actually the highway patrol was amazing out there. There's a whole story with that. But anyway, what restaurant would you recommend that I make sure I get to if I need a place to eat?

Heath Henderson (26:14.67) Well, and we have a couple really good Mexican restaurants, it's hard. I would say Anita's if you want Mexican food. And I would say, but if you want some of best chicken strips or best chicken salad with jalapeno ranch dressing, Willie's.

Rick Sola (26:35.784) Okay. All right. Well, next time I'll be driving right through El Dorado on the way to the conference. So I think I will. Yeah. One way or the other. you know, we've talked a little bit or quite a bit. You've referenced your community and the people. And I love to conclude these podcasts with an opportunity to brag on your people before you totally do that. I should have started with this, but just kind of a quick

Heath Henderson (26:41.56) Well you better stop and eat.

Rick Sola (27:03.112) you know, how big is your school and Skelly Elementary School and what makes it up and then brag on your people.

Heath Henderson (27:10.092) Yeah, Skelly Elementary, are the pride of the South Side here in El Dorado. are, like I said, we are about, we're a two section school, so we're right around 275. We're an early childhood through fifth grade. Like I said, we have, it is a magical place to work. We have great people here. I'm not sure exactly what else I want to say, but I I like to say we will.

talk a lot more about that at the conference and I will elaborate on all the successes and barriers that we have but this place right here is a place where if I was a kid I would want to go this is a place where I want to send my grandkids this is a place where if I was a parent I would want to send my kids

Rick Sola (28:02.344) And I think that's probably the best answer that any of us could give, is if we're principal of a school, to be able to truly and honestly say, this is where I would want my own kids to be, and here's why. And it sounds like a lot of really neat things happening out at Skelly Elementary. Looking forward to hearing more about it here at KPA. And just once again, a plug for the conference, November 5th and 6th. I think there's early registration.

or events November 4th in the evening, but the conference fifth and sixth and hope to see all of our principals there because it is a principal focus conference and there's not a lot of those out there and it's a really well done conference.

Heath Henderson (28:44.552) I 100 % agree, I think it's going to be an amazing conference. And if you are pre-registered, don't forget to go on the website and there are some festivities that might happen the evening before that you might want to make sure that you register for as well.

Rick Sola (28:58.6) Yep, I am registered and some of the team here are as well. And it's going to be a good time. It's going to be a really good time. And Heath, thank you so much for taking time at the end of a long day and looking forward to seeing you here soon here in Wichita.

Heath Henderson (29:12.888) Well, thank you for having me and thank you for all you do for the principles across the state with your podcast. It's an amazing platform and I look forward to watching this thing continue to blow up and grow over the next decade.

Rick Sola (29:26.761) I appreciate that. Hey, thanks so much, Heath. We'll see you soon.

Heath Henderson (29:31.694) See ya.

Principal Travis Rogers

Wichita South High School 

USD259

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Dr. Amy VanRheen

Principal at Louisburg High School

USD 416

@LhsUsd416

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The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

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Cheney High School, USD 268

USA-Kansas Rep

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Robert Cave, Jr.

Assistant Principal & Activities Director

Piper High School

Piper Schools USD 203

IG: @cavemanphs

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Brad Jones

Principal at Seaman High School - Topeka

X: USD 345

Facebook: SeamanHighUSD345/

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